The Walking Dead The Walking Dead Season 4 Episode 16 "A" Discussion Thread

[TheFuture]

thats now what happened in this episode. He got ambushed by a group that wanted retribution for Rick attacking and killing one of their members weeks ago. Rick is the one that started this fight and proceeded to slaughter all of them. I get that he had little choice at this point for his own survival, but again he is the one that struck first by murdering one of their own. If the roles were reversed and someone just came and killed Michonne or Carl, he'd have been just as vengeful. He wouldnt just leave it alone. I just cant see him as a hero and think he's a monster, just like many of those he continues to kill. This episode showed that, but he's the main protagonist so they try their best to paint him in a positive light but that halo is more than crooked. If the show was told from the point of view of a different set of survivors, most would probably see Rick in the same way as other randoms we come across in this universe. I really don't see him as all that different

Rick killed that guy based on the information he had at hand. These guys were not the type to be reasoned with. After all, he did over hear two of his buds talking about how they were going to gang rape Michonne.

Then of course, there's the big confrontation itself. If Joe wants retribution for his friend's murder, fair enough, take Rick's life. But why does he have to give the go ahead to, once again, the gang rape of Michonne AND of Carl?

This is something Rick would never abide or condone as underneath all the crazy stuff he's done, there's a decent human being. He has done the things he's done in order to survive and protect the ones he loves, whereas Joe does the things he does simply to rule the roost and inflict misery on people.

 

[afan]

thats now what happened in this episode. He got ambushed by a group that wanted retribution for Rick attacking and killing one of their members weeks ago. Rick is the one that started this fight and proceeded to slaughter all of them. I get that he had little choice at this point for his own survival, but again he is the one that struck first by murdering one of their own. If the roles were reversed and someone just came and killed Michonne or Carl, he'd have been just as vengeful. He wouldnt just leave it alone. I just cant see him as a hero and think he's a monster, just like many of those he continues to kill. This episode showed that, but he's the main protagonist so they try their best to paint him in a positive light but that halo is more than crooked. If the show was told from the point of view of a different set of survivors, most would probably see Rick in the same way as other randoms we come across in this universe. I really don't see him as all that different

Hmmmm.....I think Rick acted accordingly in that house, and he had no choice there either. When he witnessed the brutal fight over the bed he quickly realized the demeanor and threat of Joe's group, they were bad news!
So..... first he had to get out of there to warn Michonne and Carl and second he had to use extreme prejudice in dealing with any member of the group if necessary.

 

[Evelisse]

thats now what happened in this episode. He got ambushed by a group that wanted retribution for Rick attacking and killing one of their members weeks ago. Rick is the one that started this fight and proceeded to slaughter all of them. I get that he had little choice at this point for his own survival, but again he is the one that struck first by murdering one of their own. If the roles were reversed and someone just came and killed Michonne or Carl, he'd have been just as vengeful. He wouldnt just leave it alone. I just cant see him as a hero and think he's a monster, just like many of those he continues to kill. This episode showed that, but he's the main protagonist so they try their best to paint him in a positive light but that halo is more than crooked. If the show was told from the point of view of a different set of survivors, most would probably see Rick in the same way as other randoms we come across in this universe. I really don't see him as all that different

That's cool, as others have said, I'm not sure what other choice Rick had in the house, he did just overhear someone get choked/knocked out over a bed (not the only bed in the house) He made attempts to get out but couldn't, he wasn't about to talk his way out of there. I don't think the show has tried to paint him as a hero, just his and his groups story of how they survive. There are no morality heroes in the walking dead world, not this far in, if you're still alive at this point, you have done some crazy s*** to stay that way.

 

[Havok83]

fair enough, but it's part of why I have little sympathy for him. You say he did what he did to survive (which wasn't pretty) well those he kills do the same for their own survival. What makes him any better? He's not in my book

 

[Teelie]

Not sure how raping other people benefits your survival, or abusing others, or beating them to death for fun. That group was all about self-indulgence, not survival.

 

[afan]

fair enough, but it's part of why I have little sympathy for him. You say he did what he did to survive (which wasn't pretty) well those he kills do the same for their own survival. What makes him any better? He's not in my book

I guess what would make him better would be that if as you put forth the roles were reversed and he were avenging the killing of Carl or Michonne, he would not allow a gang rape, especially of a boy, in the process.

You're argument may be reasonable when comparing Rick and the Governor, but not when comparing Rick and the like of Joe's group.

 

[TheFuture]

fair enough, but it's part of why I have little sympathy for him. You say he did what he did to survive (which wasn't pretty) well those he kills do the same for their own survival. What makes him any better? He's not in my book

The difference is that if it was up to Rick, he'd be perfectly happy living with his family and friends in peace if not for outside forces threatening them. That's how simple life is to Rick now and that's all he wants from this world now.

Whereas with the likes of Joe, it is not his goal to live in peace amongst friends. It's his goal to operate in this new world taking whatever he wants, and robbing, murdering and raping whoever he wants.

It was the same for the Governor, it wasn't his goal to simply and happily lead his people with his own lot, or to only scavenge deserted spots. It was his goal to command and conquer at all costs, murdering and manipulating his way to any resource that drew his fancy.

 

[Evelisse]

Right, so far who has he killed, that could be described as just trying to make it, that wasn't twisted in some horrible way and didn't deserve to die? Shane? The guys from that Philly group Rick killed in the Bar? The Gov? Joe's group? Who has Rick killed that had no evil ulterior motives?

 

[Drizzle]

Right, so far who has he killed, that could be described as just trying to make it, that wasn't twisted in some horrible way and didn't deserve to die? Shane? The guys from that Philly group Rick killed in the Bar? The Gov? Joe's group? Who has Rick killed that had no evil ulterior motives?

The list isn't even that long because Rick didn't kill the Governor. But your point still stands. Rick has only killed bad people on the show, not including mercy kills (if any...I can't remember if he was the one who put down Dale after he was attacked).

 

[Evelisse]

The list isn't even that long because Rick didn't kill the Governor. But your point still stands. Rick has only killed bad people on the show, not including mercy kills (if any...I can't remember if he was the one who put down Dale after he was attacked).

right about the Gov, though I'm sure he was trying to kill him during their fist fight and Daryl did the mercy kill on Dale

 

[danoyse]

thats now what happened in this episode. He got ambushed by a group that wanted retribution for Rick attacking and killing one of their members weeks ago. Rick is the one that started this fight and proceeded to slaughter all of them. I get that he had little choice at this point for his own survival, but again he is the one that struck first by murdering one of their own. If the roles were reversed and someone just came and killed Michonne or Carl, he'd have been just as vengeful. He wouldnt just leave it alone. I just cant see him as a hero and think he's a monster, just like many of those he continues to kill. This episode showed that, but he's the main protagonist so they try their best to paint him in a positive light but that halo is more than crooked. If the show was told from the point of view of a different set of survivors, most would probably see Rick in the same way as other randoms we come across in this universe. I really don't see him as all that different

Only if you haven't been paying attention to this entire storyline.

This group broke into the house - unaware that Rick was there, of course - but were immediately heard trying to murder members of their own group and their plans to rape the woman they suspected was living in the house.

Rick had no choice to do what he did in order to escape - if there was a way out without killing anyone to do it, he would have likely done it. His priority was clearly getting out and getting to Carl and Michonne and this is just what he did to do that. He had no intention of retribution, he wanted to get away from them and keep the others safe as quickly as possible.

There is nothing similar about Rick or this group. Joe and his group murdered people according to their own set of botched values, and were perfectly fine raping women and children to do that. One asked Daryl the week before if Beth "was one of the little ones," which means this is something they'd done before.

Rick didn't start any of this, and he certainly is vastly different than who Joe was.

 

[danoyse]

fair enough, but it's part of why I have little sympathy for him. You say he did what he did to survive (which wasn't pretty) well those he kills do the same for their own survival. What makes him any better? He's not in my book

Then you don't understand Rick's character at all.

Joe's group doesn't do anything like Rick does to survive. When did Rick plan on raping anyone? Did the 'Ricktatorship' including beating others to death for lying? Rick just spent an entire season trying to give up violence for the sake of his son.

He didn't murder that person in Joe's group out of malice or retribution, he did it because these people were planning to rape Michonne and likely kill Carl when they returned to the house, he needed to escape, and this person was blocking his only way out of the house. If he could have gotten out another way, he would have.

If these weren't complete dangerous psychotic ***holes in the house, Rick likely would have offered them help. It's what he did when they found that couple in the house when he went on the run with Carol.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Yep. Hell, Rick even offered The Governor a place at the prison only a few episodes ago! I can't believe anyone would seriously try to make the claim that he's not a better person than the people he's come up against. Particularly the Claimers, who when Rick first meets them are already planning on gang raping a woman (Michonne), while one of them beats another senseless for a bed. And then when he next meets them they casually decide to murder Daryl and gang rape Michonne and Carl before killing him. What has Rick done that's even remotely comparable to any of that?

 

[Captain Marvel]

And weren't they torturing some poor guy the first few minutes inside the house? There was someone screaming in pain, but I wasn't sure if it was one of their own which Joe just randomly ordered killed or if it was some other poor victim they came across.

 

[danoyse]

And weren't they torturing some poor guy the first few minutes inside the house? There was someone screaming in pain, but I wasn't sure if it was one of their own which Joe just randomly ordered killed or if it was some other poor victim they came across.

Yep, that was how it started. The guy screaming for his life was what woke Rick up in the first place. First sign that bad people were in the house.

 

[danoyse]

Hell, even when Rick killed those two jerks in the bar, he tried to reason with their group ("They drew on us!"), when they turned up looking for them.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Yep, that was how it started. The guy screaming for his life was what woke Rick up in the first place. First sign that bad people were in the house.

Yep. I'm sure that, if the first thing that Rick saw of the Claimers was them talking about sports teams and being generally friendly that he might've approached them peacefully. But what he saw of them was 1) Torture, 2) Intent to gang rape Michonne, and 3) Lack of restraint in doling out violence against each other. Those were people he absolutely had to get away from at all costs, and he tried to do so without killing anyone. It just so happened that Lou was sitting on the can while Rick was trying to get out and Rick didn't notice him until it was to late, at which point he had no choice but to kill Lou.

 

[Jason Kane]

fair enough, but it's part of why I have little sympathy for him. You say he did what he did to survive (which wasn't pretty) well those he kills do the same for their own survival. What makes him any better? He's not in my book

Are you for real?

Joe and the Gov were bat**** insane and enjoyed harming others for pleasure. One of Joe's mook killed one another for a bed when they brroke into the house Rick, Michonne and Carl were in (the said two were outside at the time the bastards broke in). Not to mention as ohers have said, planned on gangraping Michonne (Carl didn't come to mind until fat boy saw him n the car).

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Before the one guy was beaten up over the bed, there was someone else pleading for their life and possibly being killed, which is what initially woke Rick up.

 

[Golgo-13]

I was a little shocked that AMC went the route of Carl about to be raped thing. As a parent, i found it really hard to watch..and nothing on this show shakes me up..i guess, they wanted something really intense to occur for Rick to snap back into terminator mode.

 

[Kane52630]

Season 5 teaser poster

 

[Captain Marvel]

I was a little shocked that AMC went the route of Carl about to be raped thing. As a parent, i found it really hard to watch..and nothing on this show shakes me up..i guess, they wanted something really intense to occur for Rick to snap back into terminator mode.

It was a scene taken almost exactly from the comic, which was nice in and of itself. I've really been liking all the various scenes which they've taken from the comic and inserted into the second half of this season. Those scenes have typically turned out to be the best ones of the season, in my view. Although there're numerous ways the series has improved on the comic, like giving the Claimers some character and putting them in place of the toll collecting gang from the comic. Those guys were so generic that they looked like a gang of triplets. They were almost identical in appearance. So seeing the Claimers in their place was nice.

 

[Kane52630]

Right click > View Image

 

[HighFivingMF]

I'm sad they shot around bringing Kyle Gallner back for a quick scene.

 

[gohei_]

Right click > View Image

Shouldn't either Darryl or Herschel be covering their mouth?