BvS The Zack Snyder Validation Thread (big rant)

[Diabo]

There's this little bubble that I've noticed Snyder fans have created for themselves, this little world where everything he has done has been heightened to an absurd level.

This gotta be the most stupid and arrogant comment posted on this thread so far. What makes you right and Snyder fans wrong? What makes them being inside of a bubble and you outside of a bubble? Just because they have a different opinion from you? Dude, you put way too much value on what you think. But you gotta learn others don´t. Get off your high horse already, for god´s sake. You ain´t saying anything more intelligent than anybody else on this thread. You´re just another guy thinking his opinion means the world.

 

[matt47]

Im a fan of good movies and to me, MoS was a good movie, same with dawn of the dead, watchmen and 300. Its just a coincedince that theyre made by the same director.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Zack Snyder makes me movies I friggin' love (with the exception of Sucker Punch). I'll leave it at that.

 

[Diabo]

You two guys are living in a bubble.

 

[LamboMan]

^^ Me too man, I like my bubble.

 

[matt47]

You two guys are living in a bubble.

;D



You are joking right ?

 

[TheNextNolan22]

I've been living in a bubble for a long time now and that's not gonna pop anytime soon.

 

[Diabo]

;D



You are joking right ?

How can you like Snyder? What´s the matter with you people? Have you seen his rating on RT? HE SUCKS!

I can´t take these guys anymore...some people really like to live in bubbles. Do yourself a favor and just stop having an opinion ok? You don´t need an opinion of your own anyway; you can just use JMC´s

 

[TheNextNolan22]

You're right. How dare we talk about a director we like in a VALIDATION Thread.

 

[matt47]

Literally loling on the bus right now

 

[LamboMan]

Um, hi guys, don't want to push it but I just wrote a big observation/thoughts piece on MOS. It's at the bottom of the last page and the link is in my sig. Could any of you kind souls read it up and give me some feedback before it gets lost in this thread so that my efforts aren't wasted? Pretty please?

 

[CGNefarious]

I read your observations. They were pretty thorough and well thought out. It also helps that I feel the same way about most of them. The only thing I kind of disagree with is the chemistry between Amy and Cavill. I thought it was fine, but I wouldn't say there was tons of chemistry between them.

Also, I have been listening to Zimmer's score for a few hours now. It really is a work of art.

 

[LamboMan]

^^ Cool, thanks for your time and the feedback!

 

[RadioSha]

I don't understand why Watchmen is not on anybody else's top 5 comic book movie of all time. It's so good. It's the perfect rated R comic book movie made.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

So with all this talk and discussion over MOS, I decided to give it a watch again tonight. Just got done with it and I think I'd like to put down some points about what I saw/felt/thought while the movie was going on. This may be my 5 th or 6th complete viewing so I decided to really look for things that hadn't occurred to me before or remember things which I had noticed before and maybe reinforce them. I'll just state that this is not what I expect everyone to have felt or thought, these are just some conclusions I have come to without any malice directed towards anybody. So here are the points:

Spoiler

1. It does not mince words or want to explain everything directly, except for one or two times like when they explain scientifically technical terms such as 'terraforming' or 'singularity' which it is alright to assume not everyone will know off hand. It gives the audience credit to be smart enough to understand what is going on.

2. The language used in the film is distinctly American with a lot of colloquial terms being used such as phrases, curses, slang etc. that not all English speaking people in the world will easily pick up on, to a very small extent myself included.

3. The scenes with Ma Kent were the most touching for me and really made me feel happy, especially when he returns home and tells her he found his people and she almost breaks down remembering what it was like when he was a baby and how she feared losing him. That point almost brought me to tears, happy manly tears.

4. The scenes with Pa Kent were extremely reminiscent of those from Smallville, and in fact he does support Clark even though he is being overprotective of him. He keeps telling him that the man he grows up to be will change the world and keeps imparting good values, although his fears and love for his son overwhelm him and his decision making, hence the tornado death scene. This Johnathan is almost exactly like the Smallville version, who was as overprotective but supportive when need be and who also died while trying to protect his son's identity.

5. The flashback scenes were interspersed all throughout the movie and were perfectly aligned with whatever emotion/situation adult Clark was going through at that moment in the present time.

6. I've heard people online complain that everybody knows Supes' identity since the police car that brought Lois to him at the Kent farm would have heard her calling him Clark and that the military should know his identity since they helped him bring the pod to the airbase.

The explanations which I have arrived to are as follows: The policeman that brought Lois to Clark was of a good, strong character and would have understood what the stakes were and would have agreed to keep it to himself at that point, not that anybody would be willing to listen considering the world was being attacked by aliens.

The military point can be easily explained that after Lois told Clark how to reopen the Phantom Zone, he would have picked up the ship and brought it to the airbase himself. The scene where we see it with ropes around it and the helicopter is when they were loading it onto the carrier frame to be loaded into the cargo plane bay. Therefore the military did not bring it to the base from the Kent farm themselves.

7. The scene where Supes flies into Zod and goes through the silos, the fields and finally the gas station, I will readily agree are indicative of a reckless Supes, but remember he had just learned his maximum strength and flight just a day or two before. Also, this was his mother who was being threatened not only verbally but physically as well what with Faora picking her up by her neck and throwing her around. Supes could hear his mom's voice anywhere on the planet and so was visibly agitated as soon as he heard what was happening to her. Once must give Supes the benefit of the doubt at that point.

8. The destruction and the Supes savings - I know nobody wants to go over this again, but this is important as it is the most divisive point among viewers.
a. In the battle at Smallville, the first hit (and a hard one at that) is by the military planes even before Supes and the other 2 Kryptonians could lay a finger on each other. Then Namek brings down one plane, Supes STOPS Faora from bringing down the other and thus SAVES a pilot from certain death. They crash into that diner where no one is hurt and they duke it out, with Faora causing him to go flying around town and crashing through buildings. Supes throws Faora through Otto's Barber shop and is tackled by both Faora and Namek. He then visibly tries to split them up and throws Namek aside and grabs Faora and tries to FLY AWAY FROM SMALLVILLE with her only to be pulled down again by Namek. At some point he even SAVES that guy who falls from the chopper.

Side note : One can really feel the tension and stakes in this battle as it is about whether Supes can surmount the odds or not against 2 nemeses.

Then Supes throws Namek into a visibly empty area with cargo trains (maybe carrying oil due to the explosions) in order to SAVE Col. Hardy from Faora. Then more missiles from the military. This is the end of the battle.

b. In Metropolis, ALL of the crater (which is clearly just half a mile wide or about a kilometer wide and not spanning across the whole city as some people state) is created before Supes even gets there due to reasons explained in point (9). Then Zod proceeds to bring down an already half destroyed empty building, throws Supes through a building under construction and through a few buildings that do not come down by any means, and take down that Wayne satellite. The only 'destruction' Supes is responsible for is the facade of a building when they clash in midair, the outer windows and a few columns of a like 2 buildings that he smashes Zod's face into and the roof of the train station where he SAVES the family and all of earth.

Let's tally - Supes created destruction = 10 % of movie, Supes saves = 99.99% of world
- Zod and co. created destruction = 90% of movie, Zod and co. kills = 0.01% of world (maximum of 10,000 people in Metropolis and many soldiers)

9. There's another common complaint online that Supes should have gone straight to the ship in Metropolis and not to the one in the Indian ocean but there is a simple and glaringly obvious reason for that as shown in the film. At first when Supes himself explains that the gravity beam would continue to expand continuously I thought that if he needed to stop one of the machines why couldn't he just stop the Metropolis ship and throw the pod onto them at the same time. Then later I realized that nothing could get close to the Zod ship since it had a gravity barrier around it and no missiles or jets could get past it. Thus Supes had to ensure that the gravity beam was off from a point that he could reach and disengage it so as to not destroy their only chance at opening the Phantom Zone. Since even Supes can't be at two places at once, the job had to divided into two groups for maximum time efficiency and to atleast mitigate the losses, that no one had control over except Zod.

10. Another complaint is that the good natured Superman isn't present and instead we get a dark brooding Supes.....say what?? As soon as the movie begins we see Supes risking his life (since he didn't know the true extent of his powers) to save a bunch of dudes on an oil rig. Then we see him save that girl in the diner where he worked, then he saves Lois with a reassuring smile.

As soon as he hears about Zod's plans he is ready to go against all the hiding that his life had led upto and forego his promise to his father and expose himself to the world and surrender to Zod in order to SAVE HUMANITY. He does this of his own accord with no help from outside. He talks to the priest/pastor and then walks away having made his decision only to be reinforced by that man's words. Let me re-iterate : this Supes is ready to give his life and his freedom so that a world that he has called home for 33 years but who doesn't care about him can survive, and without a second thought. We don't need to be seeing Supes saving cats from trees or saving suicidal people to know that he is truly good hearted. Those scenes will come in later movies when he is established as the SUPERMAN (which he is by the end of this film).

11. The gravity beam scene in which he is thrown down by the liquid metal arms of the World Engine and then gets up and with all his strength and courage after being weakened and then puts his arm up and balls up his fist (and looks like Chris Reeve) before flying into the machine thus saving Perry et al has got to be one of the most intense and strong and uplifting Supes moments I have ever seen in any form of media. That scene alone is better and more emotional than most of the what gets put out in CBM's nowadays. It was a true Superman moment, the moment I felt that Clark had finally become Superman!

12. Why metropolis and not somewhere else - Well for this there is only one explanation, since everything bad in Supes world always has to happen in Metropolis it's a given. No questions asked lol.

13. I still don't like the post end-fight joke scene which I think was due to Goyer's bad writing or ideas. Though the scenes after that and the whole Clark at the Daily Planet with that smile at the end really lights up the whole movie and was the most perfect ending that could have existed. Whenever I watch that scene and hear those rising notes as he smiles I know that this was the best Superman we have seen on screen in this generation.

14. The Lois shown in this movie is not the generic damsel in distress she has been shown as in previous iterations, this damsel is smart and super perseverant and is able to deduce Supes' identity before he can even try to fool her with those amazing magical spectacles. She is a strong character that was only second in screen time after Supes and Zod and was the backbone to his becoming Superman and saving the world. She conveyed Jor-El's message to him and gives him the strength to surrender himself to Zod (as he says. "Thank you for beleiving in me") AND helps the military open the phantom zone while being on site. As they say behind every successful man is a strong woman.

15. There was some serious chemistry between then, especially in the scene like the pre surrender desert scene I stated in the last point and every subsequent interaction, so I don't get the complaints.

16. This movie has the perfect score at the perfect timings throughout the runtime, thereby providing us with an elevated movie experience that few movies have been able to offer. Grand movies become even grander with great and memorable music and is strongly responsible for the success of films such as Star Wars, LOTR, Matrix etc. I personally feel it is Zimmer's best work to date and I can play 'Arcade' all day long.

If you have taken the time to read this then I thank you greatly for your patience. I hope someone replies though or I will feel I put in this hard work for nothing, lol.

Also one last point is that people like Zack Snyder, Peter Jackson, George Lucas etc. make these epic scale movies with a grand scope that really makes it seem like they are worth those hundred's of millions of dollars that they put into these things. That is what I like and what I want to see, and I understand it is not for everyone. Thank you.

I read this and agreed with most of it. I like everything about MOS until everything that happened post battle vs Zod imo. Boom said it best what would have made those "joking" scenes better so the movie wouldn't have left a sorrowful cloud over us (I feel). Ultimately this movie wasn't all bad except for those things for me, which is why I ended up liking most of it. And of course Zimmer never disappoints.

 

[CGNefarious]

I really hope they release an extended or director's cut version of Man of Steel in the future. What do you guys think are the chances of that? I have no idea what goes into such decisions.

 

[LamboMan]

I don't understand why Watchmen is not on anybody else's top 5 comic book movie of all time. It's so good. It's the perfect rated R comic book movie made.

It's my second fav CBM of all time. My list goes like this >>

1. Spider-Man (2002) and SM2
2. Watchmen and MOS
3. Batman Begins and The Incredible Hulk

I don't really have a fourth and fifth. I would put TDK as fourth along with Xmen 2, but don't really feel like it now, lol. These movies above are the ones I consider the best of the genre.

I read this and agreed with most of it. I like everything about MOS until everything that happened post battle vs Zod imo. Boom said it best what would have made those "joking" scenes better so the movie wouldn't have left a sorrowful cloud over us (I feel). Ultimately this movie wasn't all bad except for those things for me, which is why I ended up liking most of it. And of course Zimmer never disappoints.

Thanks a lot for reading and feedback! Yeah that's the only flaw i feel this film has and that's after multiple viewings where I've tried to understand the 'detractors' points of view. And funny thing is, my feelings haven't changed much since I saw it for the first and second time in the threat res.

EDIT:

I really hope they release an extended or director's cut version of Man of Steel in the future. What do you guys think are the chances of that? I have no idea what goes into such decisions.

Holy crap, THIS!! I need this. I would like to see an extended oil rig scene and a few more interactions with Pa Kent being supportive rather than protective. And maybe a better post Zod fight handling, even if just a few lines or scenes. MOS would get a full 10/10 from me then since it's already at 9.5/10 for me.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

I don't understand why Watchmen is not on anybody else's top 5 comic book movie of all time. It's so good. It's the perfect rated R comic book movie made.

It's on mine.

 

[Diabo]

I don't understand why Watchmen is not on anybody else's top 5 comic book movie of all time. It's so good. It's the perfect rated R comic book movie made.

It´s higher on my list than all Spider-man movies, all X-Men movies, all MCU movies. It´s a pretty damn cool film. Just the Comedian´s death scene beats anything i saw in The Avengers. Amazing scene. I show it to everybody i know all the time.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

It´s higher on my list than all Spider-man movies, all X-Men movies, all MCU movies. It´s a pretty damn cool film. Just the Comedian´s death scene beats anything i saw in The Avengers. Amazing scene. I show it to everybody i know all the time.

You can't really compare Watchmen to The Avengers. Two totally different movies that did well in their respected criteria. Of course I like Watchmen better, it was too badass! t:

 

[jmc]

This gotta be the most stupid and arrogant comment posted on this thread so far. What makes you right and Snyder fans wrong? What makes them being inside of a bubble and you outside of a bubble? Just because they have a different opinion from you? Dude, you put way too much value on what you think. But you gotta learn others don´t. Get off your high horse already, for god´s sake. You ain´t saying anything more intelligent than anybody else on this thread. You´re just another guy thinking his opinion means the world.

I'm fine with them liking him, I'm not fine with them pointing fingers at others when people are critical of his work. I've heard it time and time again that 'when this or that happens he's really good', or 'it's because of this something didn't work', it's the excuse making I don't like, like Snyder all you want, but accept that the problems of his film may in fact come down to him.

 

[Bathead]

I'm fine with them liking him, I'm not fine with them pointing fingers at others when people are critical of his work. I've heard it time and time again that 'when this or that happens he's really good', or 'it's because of this something didn't work', it's the excuse making I don't like, like Snyder all you want, but accept that the problems of his film may in fact come down to him.

Why should they, if they disagree and believe that the problems you and other critics raise are either exaggerated of non-existent. It seems to me you're as guilty of pointing fingers at those who like his work as they are pointing theirs at his critics.

 

[Diabo]

I'm fine with them liking him, I'm not fine with them pointing fingers at others when people are critical of his work. I've heard it time and time again that 'when this or that happens he's really good', or 'it's because of this something didn't work', it's the excuse making I don't like, like Snyder all you want, but accept that the problems of his film may in fact come down to him.

Honestly, i´m not really seeing anyone saying that the problems with his movies are never his fault. But it seems to me you´re trying to imply that anything that goes wrong with his movies, is just his fault and no one else´s. In case you don´t know, the quality of the final product is dependent of many factors, and the director is just one of them. So, if a movie sucks, the director might not be the only one to blame.

If you look at the list of screenwriters Zack as worked with, most of them aren´t really that great. And most of the problems we can find in his movies have a lot to do with the script, so there´s definitely a connection there. And since he, as a director, is so good at creating great cinematic moments, it´s gonna be interesting to see him working with a more reputable screenwriter.

I think most of his fans simply believe that he has a lot of potential, and if he starts working with better screenwriters, he might be able to create really amazing films.

 

[LamboMan]

^^ I totally agree with you Diabo. Zack is a great director nearing the top in terms of visuals and direction, he just needs a good script/screen writer and it could be the deadly one two punch that we have all been waiting for.

 

[jmc]

I'll just add this in an attempt to calm things down a bit. Us folks who lean DC have an emotional attachment to the current film series. The simple fact fans are polarised with regards to MoS more or less indicates to me that the series is off to the worst possible start and that the creative team in place hasn't done a good enough job in doing justice to the characters involved. The shear fact we just continuously argue amongst ourselves speaks volumes to that no matter which side of the fence you sit. Every fan wanted to believe in MoS and the team behind it, there was no hate campaign towards this film because many wanted to believe that the film would live up to its potential. But for many of us it didn't do enough of what it promised, in some cases it didn't even do the fundamentals of movie making right. It gets heated because frankly many fans can't see the film others see, and it sucks, and sometimes things get said that are completely out of line in defence of either position (and I'll be the first to put my hand up for doing that every now and then). Whether you are for or against the people involved the fact is we have a creative team that's too divisive and that is not what a character like Superman should have driving him. The argument isn't so much whether Snyder is a good director, but rather whether it's good for the character to have someone so divisive controlling him.