BvS The Zack Snyder Validation Thread (big rant)

[Steamteck]

To be fair, there IS a difference between having emotion in your film, and making your audience CARE.

Made me care. I know its kind of arrogant , but that's what mattered to me. I try not to think of others as simply unperceptive or insensitive but its hard. My mind gets that's not it but my heart not always.

 

[Rowsdower!]

That's exactly what's happening. For every positive thing people try to discuss about Snyder, there's 5 people rushing to tell you why you shouldn't feel that way.

Yeah. And some of the MOS detractors around here will tell you that it's only fans of the film that deride other posters' comments, but I've seen a lot of the opposite, especially right after the movie came out. This place was a haven for trolls for a while.

 

[D.P.]

MOS "tried" to be emotional? Speak for yourself people, it's probably the most emotional superhero movie for me out there, it's got so much heart, the tornado scene hits me in the gut every single time, it's beautiful stuff, hell, that moment after he kills Zod & Lois gently strokes his head, beauty.

You've done it now. Expect a wall of text coming your way.

 

[D.P.]

Made me care. I know its kind of arrogant , but that's what mattered to me. I try not to think of others as simply unperceptive or insensitive but its hard. My mind gets that's not it but my heart not always.

Made me care as well. Didn't care for Superman as a character at all prior to this. Zack made me buy into the guy. Ironically, the people who call themselves die-hard Kal fans feel that the very same film was blasphemous.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, while MOS has it's flaws, I still felt more of an emotional connection to it than... well, any superhero movie I've seen before, except maybe Superman '78. There are a few moments in Nolan's Batman trilogy that get me, and Coulson's death in The Avengers is handled pretty well. But MOS was like an emotional rollercoaster for me, and I mean that in a good way. Made me laugh, cry and cheer. I think a lot of that is Zimmer's amazing score. It just really pulls the "feels" out a lot more than the scores in a lot of other CBMs.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

Exactly, Zimmer's score is a thing of beauty, one of his most beautiful scores I'd say.

 

[LamboMan]

Yeah, while MOS has it's flaws, I still felt more of an emotional connection to it than... well, any superhero movie I've seen before, except maybe Superman '78. There are a few moments in Nolan's Batman trilogy that get me, and Coulson's death in The Avengers is handled pretty well. But MOS was like an emotional rollercoaster for me, and I mean that in a good way. Made me laugh, cry and cheer. I think a lot of that is Zimmer's amazing score. It just really pulls the "feels" out a lot more than the scores in a lot of other CBMs.

Oh yes, that Zimmer score made what was already a good movie into a great one. I feel that any movie that has a grand and memorable score to it just gets so much better exponentially. Take for example Tron Legacy, every time I watch that movie, the score is what gets me most. I'm not saying that without the score these movies couldn't stand on their own, just that the score greatly enhances the entire experience so much more. Other examples would be the LOTR trilogy, the Star Wars saga and Watchmen, oh and of course The Matrix trilogy.

 

[Diabo]

And BTW, is there any EVIDENCE AT ALL that the majority of people actually thought TA was more emotional than MOS? I get that it did receive better reviews, but i see no indicator that it was perceived as an emotional film. At least, no more than MOS.

 

[Steamteck]

Made me care as well. Didn't care for Superman as a character at all prior to this. Zack made me buy into the guy. Ironically, the people who call themselves die-hard Kal fans feel that the very same film was blasphemous.

Superman is my favorite hero and has been for over 4 decades. We're both orphans raised by moral small town folk who ended up in the big city trying to be the best we can. I relate to him a 100 times more than Batman.

MOS is my favorite Superman movie. This "Joyless" film was the first film that my late wife had liked, had no complaints and come out happy about about in 6 months.

 

[Bwahaha!]

We're watching Sucker Punch right now. An hour into it. I doubt it'll become a fav movie but so far I don't hate it. I def see Snyder's moody color palette. The story is very stream-of-consciousness, almost like a long dream sequence. Intriguing use of music, too. If nothing else, it'll be fertile training ground for WW's action sequences.

 

[LamboMan]

We're watching Sucker Punch right now. An hour into it. I doubt it'll become a fav movie but so far I don't hate it. I def see Snyder's moody color palette. The story is very stream-of-consciousness, almost like a long dream sequence. Intriguing use of music, too. If nothing else, it'll be fertile training ground for WW's action sequences.

Don't distract yourself with the boards man, finish the movie in one go and tell us what you think!

And yes, Zack Snyder will most def give us great WW actions scenes.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

And BTW, is there any EVIDENCE AT ALL that the majority of people actually thought TA was more emotional than MOS? I get that it did receive better reviews, but i see no indicator that it was perceived as an emotional film. At least, no more than MOS.

There are people who think The Avengers is emotional? Like. For real?

 

[Diabo]

There are people who think The Avengers is emotional? Like. For real?

According to several people in this thread, it´s more emotional than MOS.

 

[CGNefarious]

I am a huge fan of Man of Steel, but the tornado scene I did find rather "cringe worthy" as I've heard it called around here. Maybe it's just that I think the idea of Jonathan running back into the tornado to save a dog is a little silly. Or that he didn't just let Clark do it. I only had three real complaints about the movie (besides it not being nearly long enough), but that one is my biggest. Still, the film is a lot deeper than most superhero films and I definitely felt the emotion in it. It won't bring one to tears or anything, but that wasn't its goal.

 

[spiderral]

While I thought the first half of MoS was making me care for the characters, the second half of the film had me very disappointed and I didn't care too much about the characters.
I think, as someone else had said in these threads before, Snyder is more about "style" and making his films look cool but lacking in "substance", making characters seem quite empty, especially Superman in MoS which is why I'm skeptical about BvS but I'm hoping it does well.

 

[Batmannerism]

Superman is my favorite hero and has been for over 4 decades. We're both orphans raised by moral small town folk who ended up in the big city trying to be the best we can. I relate to him a 100 times more than Batman.

MOS is my favorite Superman movie. This "Joyless" film was the first film that my late wife had liked, had no complaints and come out happy about about in 6 months.

That's my favorite comment of the week !

For every person that complains that MOS was joyless or lacked emotion, there's somebody else who it really spoke to, and got behind the main character and his journey.

I don't think the movies was perfect, but it was still Awesome, and ranks
up there with Superman the movie IMO.

Snyder may not have pleased everyone, but those people he did connect with, certainly walked away happy ( I did, five times in the cinema !)

 

[The Question]

There are people who think The Avengers is emotional? Like. For real?

Yeah? Why is that a laughable statement?

I mean, it's not Schindler's List or anything, but it's very effective on an emotional level.

 

[Diabo]

To say MOS wasn´t good just because not everybody liked it is the same thing as saying Sushi isn´t good, because many people don´t like, and pizza(The Avengers) is much better because most people like it. Some movies simply have more controversial elements than others, wich makes it difficult to please everybody. Some movies have a more friendly structure, wich makes it easier to please the masses. Not everything is for everyone, and i see no problem in having something that simply isn´t everybody´s cup of tea.

I love the Human Centipede. Both movies. But they got horrible reviews. Does it mean they´re bad horror movies? I think it simply means they´re too much for most people. Most people just feel disgusted by watching it. Wich means, this movie isn´t for everybody.

MOS doesn´t have the most friendly structure in the world wich makes it a good target for complaints. But i´m pretty sure that if Zack Snyder wanted to have no controversy surrounding his movie, he would have make it way more lighter, without Superman killing anyone, with less destruction, with more comedy and more romance. But he chose to make the Superman movie he wanted to see instead of the Superman movie that would have pleased everybody.

The Avengers is a movie developed to please everyone and to create no controversy. And you can see it in the way it handles itself. Everything is light, everything is bright, everyone is happy and beautiful, everyone has style, the heroes don´t kill anyone in a violent way, every line has a joke, the characters are always trying to be funny, yada, yada, yada. It´s too obvious that this is highly aimed at kids and families. This is a "feel good" movie. It´s a movie that´s afraid to piss anyone off. It´s too safe and very similar to watching a sunday morning cartoon.

 

[The Question]

To say MOS wasn´t good just because not everybody liked it is the same thing as saying Sushi isn´t good, because many people don´t like, and pizza(The Avengers) is much better because most people like it. Some movies simply have more controversial elements than others, wich makes it difficult to please everybody. Some movies have a more friendly structure, wich makes it easier to please the masses. Not everything is for everyone, and i see no problem in having something that simply isn´t everybody´s cup of tea.

I love the Human Centipede. Both movies. But they got horrible reviews. Does it mean they´re bad horror movies? I think it simply means they´re too much for most people. Most people just feel disgusted by watching it. Wich means, this movie isn´t for everybody.

MOS doesn´t have the most friendly structure in the world wich makes it a good target for complaints. But i´m pretty sure that if Zack Snyder wanted to have no controversy surrounding his movie, he would have make it way more lighter, without Superman killing anyone, with less destruction, with more comedy and more romance. But he chose to make the Superman movie he wanted to see instead of the Superman movie that would have pleased everybody.

The Avengers is a movie developed to please everyone and to create no controversy. And you can see it in the way it handles itself. Everything is light, everything is bright, everyone is happy and beautiful, everyone has style, the heroes don´t kill anyone in a violent way, every line has a joke, the characters are always trying to be funny, yada, yada, yada. It´s too obvious that this is highly aimed at kids and families. This is a "feel good" movie. It´s a movie that´s afraid to piss anyone off. It´s too safe and very similar to watching a sunday morning cartoon.

I don't dislike Man of Steel because it's too dark and serious and violent and I don't like The Avengers because it's light and fun and didn't take any risks. I like The Avengers because it has functioning narrative and successfully creates an immersive emotional experience and I dislike Man of Steel because it doesn't.

We don't have to agree with each other about that, and we can continue to discuss and debate our views on these films if you like, but please don't do me the disservice of saying that he only reason I didn't like it was because it was "too dark." I actually gave, you know, criticisms of how the film was made.

 

[Diabo]

I never said that. You said that. I literally said that "Some movies simply have more controversial elements than others" and "MOS doesn´t have the most friendly structure in the world wich makes it a good target for complaints.".

People complain about many different things about MOS and have many different problems with the film. I´m not saying what your problem is with the film, i´m simply saying the movie is more controversial than The Avengers. And i´m also not saying why everyone liked The Avengers. I simply stated a number of reasons why i consider The Avenger much easier to swallow than MOS.

Plus, it features characters that nobody cares about and don´t have the historical meaning of Superman. It´s way easier to be upset about something you really care about, and the fact is, a lot of people care about Superman. Even those who don´t read comics. Even my grandma cares about Superman.

You say The Avengers have a "functioning narrative" and MOS doesn´t. I don´t agree with you. And i´m not the only one. I don´t see the point of you coming to a "VALIDATION" thread to repeat yourself a million times. We already know your opinion, from this and many other threads. Why do you feel the need to spend so much time debating something you don´t like? I´m debating something that i like, and i wouldn´t waste my time over the TA boards.

And the thing is, you aren´t presenting any factual evidence of anything. You act like you are, but aren´t.You´re not proving to us that MOS lacks this or lacks that. You´re simply stating your negative opinion, and we get it. No need to spend more time here beating us over the head with ideas that have no meaning for those who really liked the movie.

 

[jmc]

If you were to strip away the Superman costume would you still enjoy the film?

 

[The Question]

I never said that. You said that. I literally said that "Some movies simply have more controversial elements than others" and "MOS doesn´t have the most friendly structure in the world wich makes it a good target for complaints.".

People complain about many different things about MOS and have many different problems with the film. I´m not saying what your problem is with the film, i´m simply saying the movie is more controversial than The Avengers. And i´m also not saying why everyone liked The Avengers. I simply stated a number of reasons why i consider The Avenger much easier to swallow than MOS.

Plus, it features characters that nobody cares about and don´t have the historical meaning of Superman. It´s way easier to be upset about something you really care about, and the fact is, a lot of people care about Superman. Even those who don´t read comics. Even my grandma cares about Superman.

You say The Avengers have a "functioning narrative" and MOS doesn´t. I don´t agree with you. And i´m not the only one. I don´t see the point of you coming to a "VALIDATION" thread to repeat yourself a million times. We already know your opinion, from this and many other threads. Why do you feel the need to spend so much time debating something you don´t like? I´m debating something that i like, and i wouldn´t waste my time over the TA boards.

And the thing is, you aren´t presenting any factual evidence of anything. You act like you are, but aren´t.You´re not proving to us that MOS lacks this or lacks that. You´re simply stating your negative opinion, and we get it. No need to spend more time here beating us over the head with ideas that have no meaning for those who really liked the movie.

I'm pretty sure our debate started because you asked me a series of questions.

As for the factual basis of my opinions, I think the film pretty clearly factually lacks the things I've mentioned. The question is wether or not those things matter, and I think that's always a worthwhile discussion.

 

[Diabo]

If you were to strip away the Superman costume would you still enjoy the film?

That´s a stupid question. I don´t have a crystal ball. The only thing that matters is that i liked the movie, and quite honestly, i don´t know absolutely anyone who hasn´t liked it, outside a girl who told me she only liked the old Superman. She pretty much decided she wouldn´t like the movie before even see it, simply because she loved the old Superman movies. Weird thing, but happens.

 

[The Endless]

Avengers is emotional. Joy and happiness are emotions right? Both times i saw that in the cinema the audience was absolutely rapturous. I'm from England, trust me when i say audiences over here are never like that at the cinema. And literally every single person had a big dumb grin on their face when they were walking out.

Feeling sad at someones death isn't the only emotion.

 

[The Question]

As for why I'm debating something I hate:

I'm not. I'm debating something I love.

I love Superman, and I love movies.

And I'm debating a Superman movie I don't like because I think it's important to have open and honest discussions about what makes art effective and to think critically about how movies work.

And also I really didn't like the move and I find it cathartic to talk about why.

But if you really want me to leave, I'll leave.