Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 2

[X Knight]

According to the Wrap, there is actually a She's All That remake in the works.

It's called Speder-Man: Homecoming.

But seriously, there is one apparently.

maybe Mayimbe's sources were talking about that script instead.

 

[Chesterfield]

Yes it is. Its not like its an acting reel that showcases her talent

Your perception is askew.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Chesterfield, you asked me why I think Angourie Rice would've been a better fit over Zendaya. Look up their filmographies for a second and compare them. Zendaya only has done work basically for Disney. She's like a poster child for them and this film, being produced by Disney, is just another way for Disney to showcase off one of their talents. But outside of a voice-actor role for a Tinkerbell movie, her filmography isn't as big compared to Angourie Rice who has been in short films and several features.

You take away Zendaya's stint on Disney and she's just a contestant on "Dancing With the Stars" and some pretty model but acting chops to pull off a role like Mary Jane Watson? Those are big shoes to fill especially when Kirsten Dunst at Zendaya's age had more experience than she has now. So I think before everyone gets on the Zendaya bandwagon, I just want to remind people of this. Heck, I still think Jane Levy would've been the best choice for the role but everyone blasts me for it because "Oh she's 26!" yet the girl looks like she could play teenager which I feel I was a little harsh on the girl who's set to play Liz with her age. If she can pull it off convincingly then cool.

And let me say... if Zendaya (if she is indeed Mary Jane) pulls it off like the kids from "Harry Potter" who were virtually unknowns but became superstars, I'll eat crow, but I still think there were better choices besides her out there that they overlooked or passed along to only be different or change for the sake of change.

 

[harryoscop]

Angourie Rice is a FANTASTIC actress for her age. She's great in "The Nice Guys". Shame they're wasting her on Sally Avril Betty Brant Brandt.

 

[Chesterfield]

NinjaTurtleFan, I found your initial post fair in preferring a different actress. I think everyone here would not have elected Zendaya as their first choice but what I was adressing was what you said about Rice being perfect. Rice could very well be perfect, much like many other actresses but it's what you said about the writing that I agree with in particular and can contradict what you were saying about Rice as a perfect candidate. If the writing is bad or poorly realises the character then the actress is somewhat irrelevant in the end as she fundamentally never stood a chance; but we'll see what the film does with the character. Hopefully she won't suck.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Good point made, Chesterfield.

I am worried about that too in reference to the writing. Multiple writers on this plus watching a Youtube video yesterday where four different drafts/scripts were written and at one point Zendaya was to just be Michelle and Tony Manuel and Flash was to be black and the Daily Bugle being a gossip column vs. successful newspaper company and the constant rewrites and changes doesn't bode or sit well with me.

As many have said on other boards, the "Vacation" writers, while they can write comedy, that movie was a dud and many of the jokes felt forced for raunchiness or shock value versus natural and organic. I liked Watts' "Clown" but "Cop Car" better showcased what he could do as a director. Certainly "Clown" showcases, like Sam Raimi, that he is more of a fan of practical effects than CG and based on reports this has a smaller budget so methinks we'll get more of a grounded, down to earth practicality when it comes to FX plus with the film being described as an homage to John Hughes' movies I feel we'll get more high school everyday life versus and a sprinkled dash of action sequences but the majority of the film will be more about characters. Of course, with the rewrites this could all change. I just want a good Spider-Man film again... maybe one that rivals "SM" and "SM2." Those two films are the best Sony has given us IMO and two of the best superhero films ever made.

This has the chance to get to those heights but it also has the chance to be Spider-Man In Name Only and have too many changes and script problems where it ends up being another mediocre Spider-Man film or worse.

 

[scifiwolf]

The word was Michelle was rewritten to just be MJ. Do we know when in production this happened, and what prompted it? I only ask because it might have come from what Zendaya was doing on camera and her chemistry with Tom.

 

[X Knight]

Chesterfield, you asked me why I think Angourie Rice would've been a better fit over Zendaya. Look up their filmographies for a second and compare them. Zendaya only has done work basically for Disney. She's like a poster child for them and this film, being produced by Disney, is just another way for Disney to showcase off one of their talents. But outside of a voice-actor role for a Tinkerbell movie, her filmography isn't as big compared to Angourie Rice who has been in short films and several features.

You take away Zendaya's stint on Disney and she's just a contestant on "Dancing With the Stars" and some pretty model but acting chops to pull off a role like Mary Jane Watson? Those are big shoes to fill especially when Kirsten Dunst at Zendaya's age had more experience than she has now. So I think before everyone gets on the Zendaya bandwagon, I just want to remind people of this. Heck, I still think Jane Levy would've been the best choice for the role but everyone blasts me for it because "Oh she's 26!" yet the girl looks like she could play teenager which I feel I was a little harsh on the girl who's set to play Liz with her age. If she can pull it off convincingly then cool.

And let me say... if Zendaya (if she is indeed Mary Jane) pulls it off like the kids from "Harry Potter" who were virtually unknowns but became superstars, I'll eat crow, but I still think there were better choices besides her out there that they overlooked or passed along to only be different or change for the sake of change.

Good point made, Chesterfield.

I am worried about that too in reference to the writing. Multiple writers on this plus watching a Youtube video yesterday where four different drafts/scripts were written and at one point Zendaya was to just be Michelle and Tony Manuel and Flash was to be black and the Daily Bugle being a gossip column vs. successful newspaper company and the constant rewrites and changes doesn't bode or sit well with me.

As many have said on other boards, the "Vacation" writers, while they can write comedy, that movie was a dud and many of the jokes felt forced for raunchiness or shock value versus natural and organic. I liked Watts' "Clown" but "Cop Car" better showcased what he could do as a director. Certainly "Clown" showcases, like Sam Raimi, that he is more of a fan of practical effects than CG and based on reports this has a smaller budget so methinks we'll get more of a grounded, down to earth practicality when it comes to FX plus with the film being described as an homage to John Hughes' movies I feel we'll get more high school everyday life versus and a sprinkled dash of action sequences but the majority of the film will be more about characters. Of course, with the rewrites this could all change. I just want a good Spider-Man film again... maybe one that rivals "SM" and "SM2." Those two films are the best Sony has given us IMO and two of the best superhero films ever made.

This has the chance to get to those heights but it also has the chance to be Spider-Man In Name Only and have too many changes and script problems where it ends up being another mediocre Spider-Man film or worse.

NinjaTurtleFan, I found your initial post fair in preferring a different actress. I think everyone here would not have elected Zendaya as their first choice but what I was adressing was what you said about Rice being perfect. Rice could very well be perfect, much like many other actresses but it's what you said about the writing that I agree with in particular and can contradict what you were saying about Rice as a perfect candidate. If the writing is bad or poorly realises the character then the actress is somewhat irrelevant in the end as she fundamentally never stood a chance; but we'll see what the film does with the character. Hopefully she won't suck.

I agree with both of you guys.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I really don't care if MJ is black in this film, Peter dated white women in the last two film series.

Uproar about this casting seems like more hardcore fan demands that adaptions have to be to the letter and any sort of change is bad. I never agreed with this "change is bad" attitude, whether a change is good or bad, always depends on context and execution.

people are more upset about the character assassination in personality and appearance MJ is getting over the color of her skin.. this is what people like yourself who chime in with an opinion and pre-conceived notion are doing.. and that's not correct.

Im not a huge fan of Z period (can't really understand why people are unless you're incredibly young and grew up watching her on the disney channel) But she'd feel a whole lot better if any of the production resembled the character.. and had the ironic red hair.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Well said, spideyboy and to Overlord... if you so badly wanted Peter to date a black girl as what seems Sony and Marvel are doing then why didn't they just hook him up with Glory Grant or done like "SSM" and have him hook up with Liz who in that show they changed to a Latina. And what I also find funny is you're okay with a film in which Peter ends up with MJ again (which we've seen already) but in this case it's okay as long as she's not the same race or isn't naturally redheaded. Huh?!?

 

[X Knight]

people are more upset about the character assassination in personality and appearance MJ is getting over the color of her skin.. this is what people like yourself who chime in with an opinion and pre-conceived notion are doing.. and that's not correct.

Im not a huge fan of Z period (can't really understand why people are unless you're incredibly young and grew up watching her on the disney channel) But she'd feel a whole lot better if any of the production resembled the character.. and had the ironic red hair.

yep.

that's why I'm annoyed by all the videos and articles out there telling the "haters" to "get over it." Most of those seem to just focus on skin color and try to make this a race issue. But hardly any of them talk about the set pics and description about the character from the actress herself.

Either they are not aware of the pics and descriptions, which means they are commenting without doing their research. Or, they are aware but choose to ignore them for the sake of their argument.

 

[harryoscop]

So the first of Mayimbe's Wrap scoops turned out true. Affleck seemingly confirmed Deathstroke.

MJ's next.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Awesome about Deathstroke. The set pic looks great. Almost what was used on "Arrow" but sleeker.

 

[harryoscop]

yep.

that's why I'm annoyed by all the videos and articles out there telling the "haters" to "get over it." Most of those seem to just focus on skin color and try to make this a race issue. But hardly any of them talk about the set pics and description about the character from the actress herself.

Either they are not aware of the pics and descriptions, which means they are commenting without doing their research. Or, they are aware but choose to ignore them for the sake of their argument.

Exactly. They wanna paint hardcore fans as Racists when in fact, for many of us, it has nothing to do with the character's race.

Awesome about Deathstroke. The set pic looks great. Almost what was used on "Arrow" but sleeker.

Yep, he looks great.

 

[X Knight]

Well said, spideyboy and to Overlord... if you so badly wanted Peter to date a black girl as what seems Sony and Marvel are doing then why didn't they just hook him up with Glory Grant or done like "SSM" and have him hook up with Liz who in that show they changed to a Latina. And what I also find funny is you're okay with a film in which Peter ends up with MJ again (which we've seen already) but in this case it's okay as long as she's not the same race or isn't naturally redheaded. Huh?!?

and see. by making both MJ and Liz black, does that lessen the chance that Gloria Grant even exists in the MCU? and if she does, is she still black, or have they race changed her, too?

if Gloria get shortchanged because of the changes to MJ ( and Liz ), then that makes me mad because you are ignoring actual minority characters who exist in Spidey's world in favor of changing other characters.

why can't we have Randy Robertson and Gloria be part of the Homecoming cast? especially when they weren't showcased in any of the prior films as far as I remember.

just adding those 2 characters alone would have added diversity to the cast without needing to "change" 2 other characters.

it could have been like this:

Hispanic - Flash and Liz
Black - Gloria and Randy
Asian - Ned/Kong and Cindy
White - Peter, MJ, Sally, Betty

so there, you'd have 6 minorities and 4 whites. if you add in Gwen and Harry, that would make it even ( 6 and 6 ).

and the idea would be to make those supporting characters not named MJ, Gwen and Harry actual interesting characters who are part of the story. not just mere background material.

edit: As pointed out by PeterBenParker, I got Robbie and Randy Robertson mixed up.....lol. I've corrected that mistake.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

and see. by making both MJ and Liz black, does that lessen the chance that Gloria Grant even exists in the MCU? and if she does, is she still black, or have they race changed her, too?

if Gloria get shortchanged because of the changes to MJ ( and Liz ), then that makes me mad because you are ignoring actual minority characters who exist in Spidey's world in favor of changing other characters.

why can't we have Robbie Robertson and Gloria be part of the Homecoming cast? especially when they weren't showcased in any of the prior films as far as I remember.

just adding those 2 characters alone would have added diversity to the cast without needing to "change" 2 other characters.

it could have been like this:

Hispanic - Flash and Liz
Black - Gloria and Robbie
Asian - Ned/Kong and Cindy
White - Peter, MJ, Sally, Betty

so there, you'd have 6 minorities and 4 whites. if you add in Gwen and Harry, that would make it even ( 6 and 6 ).

and the idea would be to make those supporting characters not named MJ, Gwen and Harry actual interesting characters who are part of the story. not just mere background material.

 

[X Knight]

So the first of Mayimbe's Wrap scoops turned out true. Affleck seemingly confirmed Deathstroke.

MJ's next.

maybe at the end of JL, Deathstroke turns to Batman and says "You can call me MJ."

anyways, Deathstroke's existence in the DCEU gives me hope that we will get a Teen Titans film eventually which would also mean that Raven exists!

now, they just need to drop hints that Trigon exists.

 

[sl500jazz]

yep.

that's why I'm annoyed by all the videos and articles out there telling the "haters" to "get over it." Most of those seem to just focus on skin color and try to make this a race issue. But hardly any of them talk about the set pics and description about the character from the actress herself.

Either they are not aware of the pics and descriptions, which means they are commenting without doing their research. Or, they are aware but choose to ignore them for the sake of their argument.

Those videos/articles are responding specifically to criticism of the Zendaya casting though. If you dislike what you've heard about MJ's role/characterization in Homecoming, that's a totally separate issue, and I'd hope most are able to make that distinction.

 

[sl500jazz]

and see. by making both MJ and Liz black, does that lessen the chance that Gloria Grant even exists in the MCU? and if she does, is she still black, or have they race changed her, too?

if Gloria get shortchanged because of the changes to MJ ( and Liz ), then that makes me mad because you are ignoring actual minority characters who exist in Spidey's world in favor of changing other characters.

why can't we have Robbie Robertson and Gloria be part of the Homecoming cast? especially when they weren't showcased in any of the prior films as far as I remember.

just adding those 2 characters alone would have added diversity to the cast without needing to "change" 2 other characters.

it could have been like this:

Hispanic - Flash and Liz
Black - Gloria and Robbie
Asian - Ned/Kong and Cindy
White - Peter, MJ, Sally, Betty

so there, you'd have 6 minorities and 4 whites. if you add in Gwen and Harry, that would make it even ( 6 and 6 ).

and the idea would be to make those supporting characters not named MJ, Gwen and Harry actual interesting characters who are part of the story. not just mere background material.

Perhaps not. Betty Brant is at Midtown, which could leave room for Glory as JJJ's secretary. Also, Glory is not a major Spider-man love interest/supporting character. For me, as a Mary Jane fan, it would be worse to try and supplant MJ with Glory, then to just "race change" MJ.

 

[X Knight]

Those videos/articles are responding specifically to criticism of the Zendaya casting though. If you dislike what you've heard about MJ's role/characterization in Homecoming, that's a totally separate issue, and I'd hope most are able to make that distinction.

but then that's assuming that all criticism of Zendaya's casting is solely about race.

that's the point I was trying to make.

the pics and descriptions of Zendaya's character have been out there for people to see and read before Z was "confirmed" to be MJ.

 

[X Knight]

Perhaps not. Betty Brant is at Midtown, which could leave room for Glory as JJJ's secretary. Also, Glory is not a major Spider-man love interest/supporting character. For me, as a Mary Jane fan, it would be worse to try and supplant MJ with Glory, then to just "race change" MJ.

I didn't say to make Gloria a love interest or have her replace MJ. I wouldn't want that either.

and if you include Gloria, that means you could also take out Betty and keep her part of the Bugle crowd where she should be. and instead of using Ned in HS, you could use Kong instead. and save Ned, another Asian, for the Bugle crowd as well. And the Bugle crowd would offer another opportunity to provide diversity without making changes to major characters.

 

[sl500jazz]

but then that's assuming that all criticism of Zendaya's casting is solely about race.

that's the point I was trying to make.

the pics and descriptions of Zendaya's character have been out there for people to see and read before Z was "confirmed" to be MJ.

But then that's not so much a criticism of the casting as it is the writing/direction.

 

[sl500jazz]

I didn't say to make Gloria a love interest or have her replace MJ. I wouldn't want that either.

and if you include Gloria, that means you could also take out Betty and keep her part of the Bugle crowd where she should be. and instead of using Ned in HS, you could use Kong instead. and save Ned, another Asian, for the Bugle crowd as well. And the Bugle crowd would offer another opportunity to provide diversity without making changes to major characters.

Ah OK...I misunderstood then

 

[X Knight]

But then that's not so much a criticism of the casting as it is the writing/direction.

but why do those 2 things have to be separate issues?

and technically, Zendaya was cast several months ago. that's old news, really.

the current uproar is about her playing MJ, after all the "misdirection" of making us think she's Michelle.

so, really, it's not so much the casting of Zendaya that people have a problem with. it's her playing MJ that some people have a problem with. along with the pics and descriptions of her character. which means the character of MJ herself has been changed.

so, yes, it really is about the writing/direction of the character.

if Zendaya's casting had just been announced last week and she was announced to be playing MJ, THEN criticism of her casting would be mainly about the race change because we would have no other info about the character to go on ( set pics and descriptions and being told her name was Michelle ).

then those articles and videos would have more of a point - though I'd still strongly disagree if they labeled all the "haters" as racist trolls for not liking the casting.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Think you mixed up Robbie and Randy, X Knight.