Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 2

[X Knight]

Think you mixed up Robbie and Randy, X Knight.

(looks it up)

yes. yes I did.

but you get my point......lol.

 

[NHawk19]

Hmm, I never thought about this but why did the movie makers feel like they needed to hide it? If they were really forward thinking and wanted to address the issue why not just be up front about it.

MJ is a huge part of Pete's life and we'd all expect her to be a part of it at some point, just like Aunt May.

 

[PeterBenParker]

(looks it up)

yes. yes I did.

but you get my point......lol.

Yeah, lol. I've wanted Randy on the big screen since the Raimi days and hope we can get him in this new series..so long as the Bugle is in it, too.

 

[X Knight]

Hmm, I never thought about this but why did the movie makers feel like they needed to hide it? If they were really forward thinking and wanted to address the issue why not just be up front about it.

MJ is a huge part of Pete's life and we'd all expect her to be a part of it at some point, just like Aunt May.

exactly. that's what I've said before.

I'd respect them more if they were just upfront about this whole thing instead of playing coy and trying to be mysterious about it.

most likely, there were fully aware of the backlash and controversy it would cause. they knew it would be a bold move. yet, they don't have the guts and courage to just come out and announce it officially.

and now that the story is out there and all over the place, it's going to be much harder to try to keep it a big "surprise" in the film.

 

[X Knight]

Ah OK...I misunderstood then

ah, that's ok. no problem.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Welp, here's the options they have:

1. Ignore the controversy and go with it anyway. Sony would care because they're in a desperate state, but Marvel clearly don't.
   
2. Do re-shoots to change Zendaya back to being Michele as opposed to Mary Jane, while getting a new actress for Mary Jane.
   
3. Cut any and all of Mary Jane being in the film, leaving only Michele.

 

[X Knight]

Welp, here's the options they have:

1. Ignore the controversy and go with it anyway. Sony would care because they're in a desperate state, but Marvel clearly don't.
   
2. Do re-shoots to change Zendaya back to being Michele as opposed to Mary Jane, while getting a new actress for Mary Jane.
   
3. Cut any and all of Mary Jane being in the film, leaving only Michele.

I'd take doors # 2 or 3, please.

 

[harryoscop]

Webb and co could say whatever they want, but I personally believe the HUGGGEEE backlash against Shai' played a part in her getting cut from the movie.

Marvel, however, I don't think care at all. And why should they? They're not in a desperate situation like Sony.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Those videos/articles are responding specifically to criticism of the Zendaya casting though. If you dislike what you've heard about MJ's role/characterization in Homecoming, that's a totally separate issue, and I'd hope most are able to make that distinction.

lol not when they quote people who are clearly arn't acting racist... If people were like "I DONT WANT NO BLACK GIRL BEING MJ" then yeah.. that's kinda racist... suggesting they create more black characters or that they bring in some of the pre-existing ones.. is not racism. That word has been skewed and thrown around too much.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Webb and co could say whatever they want, but I personally believe the HUGGGEEE backlash against Shai' played a part in her getting cut from the movie.

Marvel, however, I don't think care at all. And why should they? They're not in a desperate situation like Sony.

Exactly what I was referring to.

Sony changed around TASM2 a lot to please both the audiences and the fans (like cutting out Gobby's extended transformation, cutting out Peter's dad at the end) and it still failed them.

Marvel just don't give a crap.

Joe Russo: The design of the costume is what it is. That’s the design that we love, it’s the design that Kevin Feige loves and so on. He’s a very popular character so it’s always going to be controversial, people are always going to love or hate what you do with him, but all we can do is make sure that we love it, that we are true to ourselves and true to how we feel about the character and then hope that everybody else digs it.

That's just about the costume. Now apply that to everything and you'll basically have Spider-Man: Homecoming thus far.

 

[harryoscop]

Exactly what I was referring to.

Sony changed around TASM2 a lot to please both the audiences and the fans (like cutting out Gobby's extended transformation, cutting out Peter's dad at the end) and it still failed them.

Marvel just don't give a crap.



That's just about the costume. Now apply that to everything and you'll basically have Spider-Man: Homecoming thus far.

Damn, I wish Sony stuck to their guns, too. :/ We probably would have had a better TASM2 if they did and stayed true to their original plans and vision.

 

[Havok83]

lol not when they quote people who are clearly arn't acting racist... If people were like "I DONT WANT NO BLACK GIRL BEING MJ" then yeah.. that's kinda racist... suggesting they create more black characters or that they bring in some of the pre-existing ones.. is not racism. That word has been skewed and thrown around too much.

Its really not. If people dont want Zendaya to play MJ bc she's biracial, thats, not racist. Most of those people want a more comic accurate representation of the character and she's a Caucasian female. If people attack her bc of her race, then that's racist and to my knowledge, people arent really doing that, at least not here.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Hmm, I never thought about this but why did the movie makers feel like they needed to hide it? If they were really forward thinking and wanted to address the issue why not just be up front about it.

MJ is a huge part of Pete's life and we'd all expect her to be a part of it at some point, just like Aunt May.

It's fairly similar to what happened with William Fichtner on the "TMNT" reboot. He was cast to be the bad guy and then it was later revealed in one of the drafts that Shredder would be General Schrader instead and Erich Sachs would become Shredder in another draft. Fans voiced their concerns and anger over this and it was later changed to Shredder being Shredder (only not named Oroku Saki) and William's Eric was changed in mid-production along with reshoots to be just a scientist/financier working for Shredder and responsible for April's dad's death.

But this subterfuge of hiding who a character really is and doing a change and backing out last minute or getting cold feet or having reservations about a change is stupid IMO by Hollywood's part. Either stick to the source in the first place or hire people who will. Yes, liberties are going to be taken but it's kind of like "Tropic Thunder" instead of 'Never go full ******' here it's 'Never go full change.'

Again, I would've had no problem if Peter dated Gloria or if they wanted to pull a "SSM" where he dates Liz but then ends up with Gwen or MJ later. It's something fresh and new. Heck, he being with a girl named Michelle is different enough and since she's bi-racial it even adds a lot more diversity, but changing a pre-existing character just to be different and her entire personality from what was done before... that's where it makes a lot of people cross about the idea. Hence why I go back to using the "TMNT" reboot--- there the filmmakers wanted to whitewash Oroku Saki and feel they could get away with it but then backed out but again, in that case, they could've made a better Shredder than what was done before but instead decided to forget Saki's and Splinter's rich rivalry and history in exchange for being another generic robotic-armored villain who wants to take over New York with a plot stolen from "Amazing Spider-Man." Yawn.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Its really not. If people dont want Zendaya to play MJ bc she's biracial, thats, not racist. Most of those people want a more comic accurate representation of the character and she's a Caucasian female. If people attack her bc of her race, then that's racist and to my knowledge, people arent really doing that, at least not here.

Well said.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Its really not. If people dont want Zendaya to play MJ bc she's biracial, thats, not racist. Most of those people want a more comic accurate representation of the character and she's a Caucasian female. If people attack her bc of her race, then that's racist and to my knowledge, people arent really doing that, at least not here.

even if someone didn't want a character race swapped even then that's not even racist... Most of us talk about eye, skin, hair, and ethnicity the same way we do a costume and wardrobe for a character.. we all sorta view it all as the same . People just want beloved characters to look like beloved characters.

and thankfully the mods all understand that so when someone does get labeled racist.. the labeler doesn't last long

 

[X Knight]

Its really not. If people dont want Zendaya to play MJ bc she's biracial, thats, not racist. Most of those people want a more comic accurate representation of the character and she's a Caucasian female. If people attack her bc of her race, then that's racist and to my knowledge, people arent really doing that, at least not here.

It's fairly similar to what happened with William Fichtner on the "TMNT" reboot. He was cast to be the bad guy and then it was later revealed in one of the drafts that Shredder would be General Schrader instead and Erich Sachs would become Shredder in another draft. Fans voiced their concerns and anger over this and it was later changed to Shredder being Shredder (only not named Oroku Saki) and William's Eric was changed in mid-production along with reshoots to be just a scientist/financier working for Shredder and responsible for April's dad's death.

But this subterfuge of hiding who a character really is and doing a change and backing out last minute or getting cold feet or having reservations about a change is stupid IMO by Hollywood's part. Either stick to the source in the first place or hire people who will. Yes, liberties are going to be taken but it's kind of like "Tropic Thunder" instead of 'Never go full ******' here it's 'Never go full change.'

Again, I would've had no problem if Peter dated Gloria or if they wanted to pull a "SSM" where he dates Liz but then ends up with Gwen or MJ later. It's something fresh and new. Heck, he being with a girl named Michelle is different enough and since she's bi-racial it even adds a lot more diversity, but changing a pre-existing character just to be different and her entire personality from what was done before... that's where it makes a lot of people cross about the idea. Hence why I go back to using the "TMNT" reboot--- there the filmmakers wanted to whitewash Oroku Saki and feel they could get away with it but then backed out but again, in that case, they could've made a better Shredder than what was done before but instead decided to forget Saki's and Splinter's rich rivalry and history in exchange for being another generic robotic-armored villain who wants to take over New York with a plot stolen from "Amazing Spider-Man." Yawn.

even if someone didn't want a character race swapped even then that's not even racist... Most of us talk about eye, skin, hair, and ethnicity the same way we do a costume and wardrobe for a character.. we all sorta view it all as the same . People just want beloved characters to look like beloved characters.

and thankfully the mods all understand that so when someone does get labeled racist.. the labeler doesn't last long

agree with all of you. well said.

that's alway been my stance.

try to stick to the source material as much as possible. if/when you do make changes, make minor changes to fit your story but don't alter the "core" or spirit of the character. and if/when you do make major changes, it's better to do that with minor, 2nd or 3rd or lower tiers characters, or with less popular characters who don't have much prior mainstream exposure.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

agree with all of you. well said.

that's alway been my stance.

try to stick to the source material as much as possible. if/when you do make changes, make minor changes to fit your story but don't alter the "core" or spirit of the character. and if/when you do make major changes, it's better to do that with minor, 2nd or 3rd or lower tiers characters, or with less popular characters who don't have much prior mainstream exposure.

bingo

 

[X Knight]

bingo

for example, I just read up on 616 Gwen's backstory, to see what kind of character she was originally created as. and to see how it compared to the SSM and TASM versions of the character.

as I read through it, the main thing that jumped out to me was that 616 Gwen was a science major in College who was attracted to Peter for his intellect. So, from the start, being smart and intellectual and being into science was part of the character.

So, with that character type in mind, you realize that SSM Gwen and TASM Gwen weren't that far off the mark, despite the changes made for each version. They both portrayed Gwen as a smart blonde who's into science along with Peter.

Making Gwen a science nerd in HS fits - it makes sense for the character based on how she was created.

 

[Dark Raven]

Welp, here's the options they have:

1. Ignore the controversy and go with it anyway. Sony would care because they're in a desperate state, but Marvel clearly don't.
   
2. Do re-shoots to change Zendaya back to being Michele as opposed to Mary Jane, while getting a new actress for Mary Jane.
   
3. Cut any and all of Mary Jane being in the film, leaving only Michele.

They could go with a Mandarin twist and have Michelle only referring to herself MJ, but there is actually a real MJ out there whose name is actually Mary Jane Watson and not Michelle Johnson.

 

[Venomfan]

MJ being a surprise twist is such a dumb idea, unless it's the original set up by aunt may and he's expecting an unattractive girl and a bombshell shows up at his door. MJ's name being a twist though...

 

[Spider-Fan83]

They could go with a Mandarin twist and have Michelle only referring to herself MJ, but there is actually a real MJ out there whose name is actually Mary Jane Watson and not Michelle Johnson.

a Red Herring? well at least something about her will be Red if not her hair


maybe both their aunts keep telling them "they have a friend with a nice niece/nephew their age" they want to fix them up with... leading everyone to assume their talking about fixing them up with each other (even know they already know each other from school).... but then they end up with different people

 

[Dark Raven]

If the "real" MJ supposedly emerges at the end of the movie after Michelle has a makeover, she'll show up and tell Peter "Face it Tiger, I just found my hidden dragon!"

 

[TheVileOne]

This video alone definitely qualifies her as being more than suitable for the role.

No it doesn't.

 

[Dark Raven]

No it doesn't.

That was her audition tape that won her the role.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm not saying she will be a terrible MJ, but doing a runway model show doesn't mean she's more qualified or suitable to play the role.

Doing runway shows doesn't exactly give you acting chops.

It's like those stupid videos showing those photoshopped images of her with red hair saying "hey she can pull of red hair too, check out these photoshopped images!"