Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 3

[Dark Raven]

Just wait for Roderick Kingsley to show up now as one of Peter's school mates.

 

[Chris B]

Not just Liz and Flash:

Spoiler

These two characters next to Zendaya & Abraham Attah they're calling them Sally Avril & Jason Macendale... Why? Why do they call them those names when they're obviously not going to share anything with the comic characters? Literally slapping comic names onto original characters like I said. Sally Avril of this movie looks way closer to Laura Lynton. & I doubt this Jason will become a Hobgoblin. (What is Marvel's obsession with taking Hobgoblin alter egos' names? First Ned then Jason)

I can only speak for myself, but I don't really have a problem with this. I mean Sally Avril was such an minor character in the comics that I don't think its worth getting upset about. If it weren't for the TSSM cartoon, I doubt anyone would even care. In the case of Macendale, I don't expect to see the Hobgoblin in a film for a long time, and if and when he ever does, I don't think they'll adapt the idea of multiple people taking up that mantle before we find out who the real one is.

Betty Brant:

She looks exactly like Gwen but they're calling her Betty Brant...? Wtf? Probably their way of including classic Gwen. But still, if they wanna do Gwen again, just do her please. Don't slap an important character from Spidey's mythos' name onto her in an effort to distance yourself from TASM.

I'll give you this one, and I agree that if that is who Rice is playing then she should've had brown hair, or even have just been called Sally Avril if that is the archetype they're going for. But again, I'd wait and see her performance and how this version is portrayed compared to her comics counterpart before calling it a name slap.

Though I have to wonder if this is a case of them still wanting to use Betty but in a different role to try and distance themselves from the Raimi films. Perhaps Gloria Grant will be Jameson's secretary in the MCU?

 

[harryoscop]

I can only speak for myself, but I don't really have a problem with this. I mean Sally Avril was such an minor character in the comics that I don't think its worth getting upset about. If it weren't for the TSSM cartoon, I doubt anyone would even care. In the case of Macendale, I don't expect to see the Hobgoblin in a film for a long time, and if and when he ever does, I don't think they'll adapt the idea of multiple people taking up that mantle before we find out who the real one is.

But she was a prominent member of Flash's entourage, popular girl who mocked Peter. (she appeared in like, 12 issues before she came back as Bluebird) & this version is still an in name only version of Sally Avril. See that's why SSM is so great, they kept the essence of EACH character in the series. The people behind the show cared about the source material & imo, improved on it in some ways. They made Sally such a great, memorable character using her original template from the comics. They didn't just make up a bunch of OCs, go to a Wikipedia page of supporting Spider-Man characters, copy a bunch of comic book names and paste them on the OCs in effort to mask them as original characters.

That begs the question, why the heck are they calling him Jason Macendale if they have no intention of using the Hobgoblin & he's nothing like Jason Macendale from the comics?? What's the point?

I'll give you this one, and I agree that if that is who Rice is playing then she should've had brown hair, or even have just been called Sally Avril if that is the archetype they're going for. But again, I'd wait and see her performance and how this version is portrayed compared to her comics counterpart before calling it a name slap.

Though I have to wonder if this is a case of them still wanting to use Betty but in a different role to try and distance themselves from the Raimi films. Perhaps Gloria Grant will be Jameson's secretary in the MCU?

She looks like Gwen (or Sally depending on the version) but she seems to have a Sally Avril's characteristic by being one of the popular chicks... But she's called Betty Brant Brandt


And I don't see why they'd want to use Betty anyway. She never went to High-school with Peter and she's always associated with the Bugle.

 

[Chesterfield]

Actually it is, Homecoming is deviating more than any other MCU BY FAR.

Your proof?

 

[Chesterfield]

And at the end of the day, Marvel Studios' MO has never been complete fidelity to every single detail of the source material but rather preserving the essence of what make their characters and mythos work. And I expect that will be the case here.

Precisely; which is why some of the overreactionary behaviour from some people here is just ridiculous to me.

 

[Chesterfield]

But we know they're not preserving the essence of the source material with the mythos, if you've been following the news you know what we've been talking. The essence of the mythos is built around the characters and so far they've shown they don't care about any of Spidey's characters as evidenced by all of them being literally INO versions of their former selfs. That's what they've been doing, slapping comic names onto original characters.

And again, I'm fully aware of the characters' mythos and I can boldy say they have not changed the essence of those franchises.

Also another foundation for Spidey's mythos is Uncle ****ing Ben who they've been blatantly ignoring.

I'm not sure you understand what the definition of essence is. Furthermore, this post of yours is somewhat proof that some people want everything spoon-fed to them. Uncle Ben hasn't been blatantly ignored. They found a nuanced way to refer to him in CW but what we don't need for a 3rd time is to be hit over the head with Ben's death and great power and great blah blah. There are ways to convey all that without being so overt about it and so far that's already been achieved.

 

[harryoscop]

Your proof?

Read the conversation between me & Chris

I'm not sure you understand what the definition of essence is.

I just spelled it out in 80 characters in the post you quoted. When you take a character, fundamentally change everything about them from their appearance, to rewriting every character trait they possess, at one point do you lose the essence of that character? When you change the template; the basis of that character, you lose the essence-- case closed. That will be the case for MCU MJ too if that's who Zendaya ends up playing.

Furthermore, this post of yours is somewhat proof that some people want everything spoon-fed to them. Uncle Ben hasn't been blatantly ignored. They found a nuanced way to refer to him in CW but what we don't need for a 3rd time is to be hit over the head with Ben's death and great power and great blah blah. There are ways to convey all that without being so overt about it and so far that's already been achieved.

How do we even know he was talking about Uncle Ben? He never mentioned him, he just alluded to his ideological stance. I could get powers, fight crime & somebody asks me why I do what I do I could say EXACTLY what he said "Because I have the power to help people when they're in danger & if I don't, bad things will happen to them & i'll feel guilty afterwards." I know it was Marvel half-arsed way of referencing the origin story (which is ludicrous because has no bearing on This version Spider-Man because we literally know jack **** about where he came from) but they should've been more overt because anybody without prior knowledgeable wouldn't get an Uncle Ben reference out of it & why should they?


So yes, Uncle Ben HAS been ignored. The most important man in the SPIDER-MAN story hasn't even gotten so much as a name drop in the MCU.

 

[Chesterfield]

Read the conversation between me & Chris

I have and there's absolutely zero evidence provided that proves Homecoming deviates more than any other MCU film.

I just spelled it out in 80 characters in the post you quoted. When you take a character, fundamentally change everything about them from their appearance, to rewriting every character trait they possess, at one point do you lose the essence of that character? When you change the template; the basis of that character, you lose the essence-- case closed. That will be the case for MCU MJ too if that's who Zendaya ends up playing.

One or two characters doesn't change the essence as a whole though. You're going around acting as if this is some sort of SMINO situation and like a typical overzealous fanboy you've jumped the gun, acting like the sky is falling regarding Zendaya as MJ when there's no proof to claim that she is.

How do we even know he was talking about Uncle Ben? He never mentioned him, he just alluded to his ideological stance.

His ideological stance? Which is based on what? I'll tell you, when Peter got his powers his initial thought process was to make a spectacle of himself and profit from it. It was only until Ben's death that Peter realised the needs of others were paramount over his own desires even if it meant helping those who had wronged him. CW didn't need to mention Ben by name because it was so obvious and again, the great power and great responsibility line was paraphrased in a nuanced way that clearly went over your head.

I could get powers, fight crime & somebody asks me why I do what I do I could say EXACTLY what he said "Because I have the power to help people when they're in danger & if I don't, bad things will happen to them & i'll feel guilty afterwards."

Like I said, that wasn't and has never been Peter's mindset when he got his powers. Honestly, that's basic spider-man knowledge.

I know it was Marvel half-arsed way of referencing the origin story (which is ludicrous because has no bearing on This version Spider-Man because we literally know jack **** about where he came from)

How is it a poor telling of referencing the origin story? Everyone and their grandmother's* pet goldfish knows the Peter Parker origin story. Its been told twice in the space of 10 years there's absolutely no need to rehash it again. Peter's been spider-man for 6 months and that's all audiences need to know.

but they should've been more overt because anybody without prior knowledgeable wouldn't get an Uncle Ben reference out of it & why should they?

Prior knowledge??? Who the hell wouldn't know Peter Parker's origin story. Don't be ridiculous; besides Ben can always be emphasised where appropriate in Homecoming or at any other time.

So yes, Uncle Ben HAS been ignored. The most important man in the SPIDER-MAN story hasn't even gotten so much as a name drop in the MCU.

Wrong. Ben hasn't been ignored. He's been obviously alluded to, which obviously was way too subtle for you to register but even so, why would he already be name dropped in the MCU when it's not necessary? Peter's had about 8 minutes of screen time in the MCU so far and who's to say Ben's name won't be mentioned in Homecoming? You're way beyond the verge, dude.

 

[Chris B]

But she was a prominent member of Flash's entourage, popular girl who mocked Peter. (she appeared in like, 12 issues before she came back as Bluebird) & this version is still an in name only version of Sally Avril. See that's why SSM is so great, they kept the essence of EACH character in the series. The people behind the show cared about the source material & imo, improved on it in some ways. They made Sally such a great, memorable character using her original template from the comics. They didn't just make up a bunch of OCs, go to a Wikipedia page of supporting Spider-Man characters, copy a bunch of comic book names and paste them on the OCs in effort to mask them as original characters.

That begs the question, why the heck are they calling him Jason Macendale if they have no intention of using the Hobgoblin & he's nothing like Jason Macendale from the comics?? What's the point?

I think you are overstating the significance of Sally Avril quite a bit. Everything you mentioned was a retcon that didn't come until the 90's. In the Lee/Ditko days she was just some random brunette who turned Peter down for a date. And if and when we ever see the Hobgoblin, I suspect that they'll simplify his story as to where we don't go through several versions before we find out who the real one is. In which case using Jason Macendale in a different capacity isn't a big problem to me at least.

None of this really surprises me as Marvel has used character names from the comics for what are essentially original characters in their other films. So none of this really surprises me to see it in S-M:H. When its characters who were inconsequential in the comics to begin with, I don't see a problem with doing that.

She looks like Gwen (or Sally depending on the version) but she seems to have a Sally Avril's characteristic by being one of the popular chicks... But she's called Betty Brant Brandt


And I don't see why they'd want to use Betty anyway. She never went to High-school with Peter and she's always associated with the Bugle.

She could still work for the Bugle in this or a sequel. We'll just have to wait and see how the character is presented here.

 

[Poppy]

👀

 

[Immortalfire]

Just wait for Roderick Kingsley to show up now as one of Peter's school mates.

Dr. Connors is an elderly guidance counselor.

 

[Dark Raven]

Dr. Connors is an elderly guidance counselor.

He offers a helping hand to his students (once he grows it back).

 

[Immortalfire]

Otto Octavius is the local pediatrician.

 

[Dark Raven]

It's like the Flashpoint version of Spider-Man, like where Caitlin Snow was just an optometrist.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

This thread is insufferable.

He offers a helping hand to his students (once he grows it back).

Okay, this one made me laugh.

 

[Arachnerd]

Mysterio is the creepy janitor.

 

[Mysteryman]

👀

You never know.

 

[Avenging Angel]

The fact that Spidey would be attracted to the emo chick is hilarious.

 

[Poppy]

Well in the movie he's mostly into Liz who's the it girl. It was reported Michelle/Kate wasn't a love interest at least in this one.

 

[Dark Raven]

If we do actually get Mary Jane eventually, I think she should be an Instagram model. That would be believable rather than having her as supermodel. She should already be uploading lots of pics to Instagram, which is what a lot of girls do anyway. That way it would be totally believable that she is possibly in high school or in college but also modelling, and that she could get an eventual modelling contract.

Which means someone like Michelle, who is awkward and bookish and dry does not seem like the type who would be showing herself off on Instagram. In fact, it almost seems like she would shun such type of social media as being for losers.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

If MJ is an instagram model, all we will hear is how she wasn't that in 616.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think she would be one if she were created now or existed in real life. It's a modern take but can lead into her classic modeling career because many instagram models do get their start that way. It's better than having MJ go through a transformation from ugly duckling.

 

[Poppy]

I think she would be one if she were created now or existed in real life. It's a modern take but can lead into her classic modeling career because many instagram models do get their start that way. It's better than having MJ go through a transformation from ugly duckling.

I like that idea. I think 616!MJ in 2017 could take a little from the girls like Gigi Hadid. Very popular on social medias because they are gorgeous and she would be doing campaign for important and modern brands. Now the difference is that MJ would be a hit because of her talent, sass and social skills unlike the Hadid girls who simply inherit a fortune and had connections.

It's just that revamp a little bit a 616!MJ could be so easy, without taking away from her character so if they do ultimate instead I'm going to be so annoyed .

 

[harryoscop]

I think she would be one if she were created now or existed in real life. It's a modern take but can lead into her classic modeling career because many instagram models do get their start that way. It's better than having MJ go through a transformation from ugly duckling.

I'm all for this. It would make sense for a modern MJ. Update the classic characters into the modern age.

 

[Dark Raven]

I like that idea. I think 616!MJ in 2017 could take a little from the girls like Bella Hadid. Very popular on social medias because they are gorgeous and she would be doing campaign for important and modern brands. Now the difference is that MJ would be a hit because of her talent, sass and social skills unlike the Hadid girls who simply inherit a fortune and had connections.

It's just that revamp a little bit a 616!MJ could be so easy, without taking away from her character so if they do ultimate instead I'm going to be so annoyed .

I don't know who is Bella Hadid, but I was thinking MJ could be like girls like Carmella Rose who have ended up as fashion models but started on Instagram and Tumblr. I tried to find one of her that wasn't too glammed up:

And then here's one where she is more glammed up:

MJ should be like that. In fact, Carmella Rose has a pretty perfect look for MJ, but I doubt she's an actress. But that would be the sort of look I'd want for MJ.

But the point is that even when she's not dolled up, she should still look pretty and confident with sass, and not some dry and awkward character who probably wouldn't even go on Instagram. MJ seems like someone who would be concerned with maintaining her popularity and image and getting as much exposure on social media. And Instagram is the perfect place for painting this ideal image of her life through pictures which isn't even a reality, because who knows how many times a girl has actually posed for a "casual" selfie or "candid" photo?