Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 3

[Schlosser85]

One of the latest reviews says Zendaya has a really small role.

 

[X Knight]

That's how Peter noticed Gwen in Spectacular Spider-Man.

Gotta be honest, that's one of the very few aspects I disliked about Spectacular Spider-Man. I know Pete's supposed to be a teenager and all, but him realizing he loves Gwen back with her change of look just didn't work for me.

and that's another reason why I don't really want to see that story arc here with Michelle. It would feel like they are copying Spectacular Gwen without the "childhood friends" aspects.

and if Michelle is indeed supposed to be MJ, why copy Spectacular Gwen story arc when you could, I don't know, copy Spectacular MJ story arc ( which we have yet to really see on film and wasn't even completed in Spectacular )?

 

[Arachnerd]

One of the latest reviews says Zendaya has a really small role.

She'll probably have a bigger role in the sequels as stated beforehand.

 

[C Prometheus]

Honestly, while I think we're likely in for some sort of change with Michelle in future films, I get the feeling it's not going to be the stereotypical "prettier" change. Maybe she gets a bit more style, sure, but I get the feeling she might end up being a bit more of a rocker and that the core change for her will have more to do with her being more sociable. If anything, let Michelle ramp up her tomboy-ness and rock it.

That's the thing I keep picking up in all of Zendaya's interviews for the film. How Michelle is an outsider and that she's not really all that interested in making friends- but if she did, she'd secretly want to be friends with Peter and Ned.

I'm hoping the future films develop this take on MJ (and I hope to God her full name in this canon is "Michelle Mary Jane Watson") in such a way that it doesn't extinguish the sass and sense of confidence she has. Because that's the secret sauce that was utterly lacking in Kirsten Dunst's take on the character throughout the entire Raimi trilogy.

 

[Rjones1325]

As I guy who saw the film I will tell you that Zendaya is the person you think she is.

Though her name is Michelle, she is MJ.

Remember that whole situation where in Star Trek Into Darkness JJ Abrams claimed that Benedict Cumberbatch wasn’t Khan and told everyone to stop complaining, but then when it played in the film his reveal was supposed to be surprised when it wasn’t since we knew who that character was the entire time. Well, THAT HAPPENS HERE, AND YOU MIGHT KNOW WHO I AM TALKING ABOUT! It is saved till the very last minute, and at that point, you cringe at it. You don’t cringe because it was a lie of how the filmmakers and cast members claimed that this isn’t that character, but you cringe at how unnecessary it is especially when the movie is one minute away from playing the credits.

- Taken from my review which you can see here. https://rendyreviews.com/movies//spider-man-homecoming-review

 

[C Prometheus]

As I guy who saw the film I will tell you that Zendaya is the person you think she is.

Though her name is Michelle, she is MJ.

- Taken from my review which you can see here. https://rendyreviews.com/movies//spider-man-homecoming-review

Yeah, that accurately describes how I feel about the whole matter. The whole secret approach was very cringey here. That being said, it sounds like this incarnation of the character is a lot of fun and is a good performance from Zendaya.

I'm just hoping they add in the "Mary Jane Watson" name with "Michelle" moving forward.

 

[jaymes_e06]

As I guy who saw the film I will tell you that Zendaya is the person you think she is.

Though her name is Michelle, she is MJ.

- Taken from my review which you can see here. https://rendyreviews.com/movies//spider-man-homecoming-review

*Hits head repeatedly against nearest table*

 

[X Knight]

As I guy who saw the film I will tell you that Zendaya is the person you think she is.

Though her name is Michelle, she is MJ.

- Taken from my review which you can see here. https://rendyreviews.com/movies//spider-man-homecoming-review

thanks for the well-balanced review.

but damn. that just confirms what my worst fear has always been.

all this secrecy and coyness and denial for a twist that everyone saw coming a year ago and which feels totally unnecessary and tacked on the very end of the film ( which otherwise seems quite enjoyable ).

the GA probably won't mind the twist but us Mary Jane Watson fans will feel like it's merely another slap in the face and continues the mistreatment and disrespect of the character that's been going on since One More Day in the comics.

 

[C Prometheus]

thanks for the well-balanced review.

but damn. that just confirms what my worst fear has always been.

all this secrecy and coyness and denial for a twist that everyone saw coming a year ago and which feels totally unnecessary and tacked on the very end of the film ( which otherwise seems quite enjoyable ).

the GA probably won't mind the twist but us Mary Jane Watson fans will feel like it's merely another slap in the face and continues the mistreatment and disrespect of the character that's been going on since One More Day in the comics.

I think it's going to vary from Mary Jane fan to Mary Jane fan. Because quite frankly, I'm digging the sound of certain key traits of Zendaya's take on the character that are being referred to in the reviews. And I know folks at NeoGAF that are pretty happy too.

I adore Mary Jane and I'm happy as hell to hear that she's finally got some wit and confidence in a movie. That's something we never got from the Raimi films, and I feel like that's resulted in the Dunst version of the character feeling more like a hollow shell of Mary Jane even if she's more "comic book accurate."

What drives me bonkers- and others I've talked to- is the Name Twist. That just feels completely unnecessary.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

It's hilarious looking back seeing how this whole thing has unfolded...

From the day Zendaya was first cast (it was obvious they were hiding something with her), to that fateful day last summer when El Mayimbe per The Wrap (props to him, he's not always right, but he NAILED this one!), blew the lid off this "twist".

Also, how may people were in denial about it because they were hoping against hope it wouldn't come to pass and Marvel wouldn't go there.

 

[guyisnotcool]

Why do movie makers try to hide secrets we already know/can guess?

 

[X Knight]

I think it's going to vary from Mary Jane fan to Mary Jane fan. Because quite frankly, I'm digging the sound of certain key traits of Zendaya's take on the character that are being referred to in the reviews. And I know folks at NeoGAF that are pretty happy too.

I adore Mary Jane and I'm happy as hell to hear that she's finally got some wit and confidence in a movie. That's something we never got from the Raimi films, and I feel like that's resulted in the Dunst version of the character feeling more like a hollow shell of Mary Jane even if she's more "comic book accurate."

What drives me bonkers- and others I've talked to- is the Name Twist. That just feels completely unnecessary.

yeah, I should have qualified by saying some MJ fans will be put off.

if you enjoy the direction, then that's great.

it's just not something I care for myself - it's not how I wanted to see the character portrayed.

and, yeah, I agree about the name thing. That's the most mind boggling thing. That's what seems so unneeded, imo.

If Zendaya is your new, modern, non-white Mary Jane Watson, then at least be PROUD of that. Sure, there would be backlash, but at least be open and honest and upfront about it.

but instead they take this sneaky, coy approach and that's what bugs me the most.

 

[X Knight]

It's hilarious looking back seeing how this whole thing has unfolded...

From the day Zendaya was first cast (it was obvious they were hiding something with her), to that fateful day last summer when El Mayimbe per The Wrap (props to him, he's not always right, but he NAILED this one!), blew the lid off this "twist".

Also, how may people were in denial about it because they were hoping against hope it wouldn't come to pass and Marvel wouldn't go there.

well, I was one who held up hope all the way till the end......lol.

and yeah, I give credit to El Mayimbe. maybe I won't be so dismissive of his scoops from now on.

 

[C Prometheus]

It's hilarious looking back seeing how this whole thing has unfolded...

From the day Zendaya was first cast (it was obvious they were hiding something with her), to that fateful day last summer when El Mayimbe per The Wrap (props to him, he's not always right, but he NAILED this one!), blew the lid off this "twist".

Also, how may people were in denial about it because they were hoping against hope it wouldn't come to pass and Marvel wouldn't go there.

Honestly, I never once doubted that Zendaya was playing MJ. It was freaking obvious from the get-go, even with the Michelle cover story.

I mean, the two characters that were name dropped as examples of Marvel Studios wanting a say in being able to cast in those leaked e-mails between Feige and Sony back in 2015 were Aunt May and Mary Jane. Peter and Aunt May got cast later that year for Civil War.

And then out of nowhere in early Spring 2016, Zendaya gets cast in a "secret role" in the new Spider-Man series, with details being that "her role in the first film would be small and then become more prominent with future entries." And it was another three or four months until they started casting for the rest of the film.

Of course she was playing MJ.

~

Honestly, I feel like they only went with calling her Michelle in this film so that general audiences didn't immediately go into the film assuming that Peter's romance with Liz wouldn't work out because Mary Jane Watson is sitting right over on the other end of the lunchtable.

I mean, it's dumb either way, because quite frankly Liz Allen isn't one of Peter's big romances. She's just the starting off point in his love life.

My hope is that Marvel add in the full Mary Jane Watson name into Michelle's character moving forward. At least give the fans that.

 

[X Knight]

Honestly, I never once doubted that Zendaya was playing MJ. It was freaking obvious from the get-go, even with the Michelle cover story.

I mean, the two characters that were name dropped as examples of Marvel Studios wanting a say in being able to cast in those leaked e-mails between Feige and Sony back in 2015 were Aunt May and Mary Jane. Peter and Aunt May got cast later that year for Civil War.

And then out of nowhere in early Spring 2016, Zendaya gets cast in a "secret role" in the new Spider-Man series, with details being that "her role in the first film would be small and then become more prominent with future entries." And it was another three or four months until they started casting for the rest of the film.

Of course she was playing MJ.

~

Honestly, I feel like they only went with calling her Michelle in this film so that general audiences didn't immediately go into the film assuming that Peter's romance with Liz wouldn't work out because Mary Jane Watson is sitting right over on the other end of the lunchtable.

I mean, it's dumb either way, because quite frankly Liz Allen isn't one of Peter's big romances. She's just the starting off point in his love life.

My hope is that Marvel add in the full Mary Jane Watson name into Michelle's character moving forward. At least give the fans that.

and make her act and look more like MJ, too.

 

[C Prometheus]

and make her act and look more like MJ, too.

I mean, it seems like there's another trait or two of MJ in Michelle already besides her wit and independence. After all,

Spoiler

she's smart enough to be selected to become the new Decathalon Team Leader at the end of the film, which is reminiscent to Ultimate Mary Jane also being quite smart.

But yeah, I do want to see more of her moving forward. And I hope that her development results in her owning this Tomboy side of her. One of my favorite Mary Jane moments ever in the Ultimate Spider-Man comics was when she ran over the Green Goblin with a truck she stole to save Peter. I want to see this take of the character do stuff like that in future films.

No need to do exactly what The Breakfast Club did with Allison in order to make Peter notice her romantically.

If anything, I feel like it'd be more earnest if it's just him and her getting to interact more and become closer naturally and then it eventually 'clicking' for him that he really, really likes this oddball, sardonic spitfire. It might be a bit different from the comics in terms of detail, but it'd probably feel more in line with the spirit of Peter and Mary Jane's romance that way.

Let MJ become the Rocker of the trio between her, Peter and Ned. t:

 

[X Knight]

I mean, it seems like there's another trait or two of MJ in Michelle already besides her wit and independence. After all,

Spoiler

she's smart enough to be selected to become the new Decathalon Team Leader at the end of the film, which is reminiscent to Ultimate Mary Jane also being quite smart.

But yeah, I do want to see more of her moving forward. And I hope that her development results in her owning this Tomboy side of her. One of my favorite Mary Jane moments ever in the Ultimate Spider-Man comics was when she ran over the Green Goblin with a truck she stole to save Peter. I want to see this take of the character do stuff like that in future films.

No need to do exactly what The Breakfast Club did with Allison in order to make Peter notice her romantically.

If anything, I feel like it'd be more earnest if it's just him and her getting to interact more and become closer naturally and then it eventually 'clicking' for him that he really, really likes this oddball, sardonic spitfire. It might be a bit different from the comics in terms of detail, but it'd probably feel more in line with the spirit of Peter and Mary Jane's romance that way.

Let MJ become the Rocker of the trio between her, Peter and Ned. t:

but Gwen is smart, too. and that has been evidenced in Spidey 3, the TASM films, and in Spectacular.

MJ being smart doesn't really make her stand out, imo, even though that's closer to Ultimate MJ. And it makes her contrast less with Peter.

The Peter-MJ appeal was, in part, due to the fact that she seemed so out of his league. It proved that the nerd/geek could get the beautiful, hot supermodel.

The MJ I wanted to see was the playful, lively, sassy, attractive MJ from 616 and Spectacular.

the playful alpha female, as James Gunn rightfully put it.

 

[C Prometheus]

but Gwen is smart, too. and that has been evidenced in Spidey 3, the TASM films, and in Spectacular.

MJ being smart doesn't really make her stand out, imo, even though that's closer to Ultimate MJ. And it makes her contrast less with Peter.

The Peter-MJ appeal was, in part, due to the fact that she seemed so out of his league. It proved that the nerd/geek could get the beautiful, hot supermodel.

The MJ I wanted to see was the playful, lively, sassy, attractive MJ from 616 and Spectacular.

the playful alpha female, as James Gunn rightfully put it.

I think that's probably the crux of the matter right there.

I went in from the get-go expecting a Mary Jane that more resembled her Ultimate counterpart than her 616/Spectacular counterpart. In fact, I had been hoping for that to be the case. So it makes sense that I'm not as bummed out as other folks here are that this spin on MJ isn't as based around her more classic counterpart, because there's at least some resemblance to the MJ I had been anticipating.

There's differences, yeah, but it's not the massive 180 that it is from her 616 incarnation.

 

[X Knight]

I think that's probably the crux of the matter right there.

I went in from the get-go expecting a Mary Jane that more resembled her Ultimate counterpart than her 616/Spectacular counterpart. In fact, I had been hoping for that to be the case. So it makes sense that I'm not as bummed out as other folks here are that this spin on MJ isn't as based around her more classic counterpart, because there's at least some resemblance to the MJ I had been anticipating.

There's differences, yeah, but it's not the massive 180 that it is from her 616 incarnation.

and that's fair enough.

still, though, they could still just have used her real name and not hid behind this coy/secrecy crap.

I think all MJ fans can I agree on that.

 

[C Prometheus]

and that's fair enough.

still, though, they could still just have used her real name and not hid behind this coy/secrecy crap.

I think all MJ fans can I agree on that.

Oh absolutely. That decision was unusually stupid on Marvel and Sony's part.

I'm hoping the game plan is to retcon her full name to be "Michelle Mary Jane Watson" in future films and progressively siphon out the Michelle part of her name when she's interacting with other characters. Have it be that her parents prefer calling her "Michelle," but she really wants to go by "Mary Jane"/"MJ" or something.

 

[X Knight]

Oh absolutely. That decision was unusually stupid on Marvel and Sony's part.

I'm hoping the game plan is to retcon her full name to be "Michelle Mary Jane Watson" in future films and progressively siphon out the Michelle part of her name when she's interacting with other characters. Have it be that her parents prefer calling her "Michelle," but she really wants to go by "Mary Jane"/"MJ" or something.

or maybe Michelle is her middle name, and she goes by that name as a form of rebellion or "counter culture". Or she hates her first name Mary Jane, thinks it's old fashioned, and always gives her middle name Michelle instead.

as she spends more time with Ned and Peter, she gradually embraces who she really is, becomes more comfortable and self-assured with herself, and starts embracing her first name, starting with MJ then gradually the full Mary Jane.

and then they can explain the hair thing - maybe she has naturally more auburn/copper colored hair and she dies it black just because.

and she dresses down and frumpy, again, because she's not sure of herself, not confident in her own beauty. but hanging around Peter, and becoming debate captain, gives her more confidence in herself and she starts dressing nicer and paying more attention to her looks.

IF they can go that route, then there's a chance I can warm up to this direction, I suppose.

but, that's going to take a lot of work......lol.

 

[fionabinona]

The whole name thing switch whatever you like to call it was stupid. But maybe clever on the studios part cos it gives them room to change the character traits to suit them. Such as what we have seen so far the smart, introvert loner girl who doesnt seem to care what pothers think, which as we all know is not the traits of the mary jane we all have grown up reading and watching. She can still play the same sort of role in peters life as the real mary jane did but they can go bit more off script with her without the loyalists having a melt down. Cos she is their MJ not comic book Mj if you know what i mean.

I know i am really looking forward to this movie more so now from reading all the enthusiastic reviews, i am a little disappointed to read that Zendaya has such a small role in this film when she has been showcased so much in the posters and clips and press tour. But i guess thats the build up for the sequel where i imagine she be flushed out more in that story. Same it seems with donald glovers character which i read is more or less a cameo, which is a shame to hire such a popular character for such little screen time

 

[X Knight]

The whole name thing switch whatever you like to call it was stupid. But maybe clever on the studios part cos it gives them room to change the character traits to suit them. Such as what we have seen so far the smart, introvert loner girl who doesnt seem to care what pothers think, which as we all know is not the traits of the mary jane we all have grown up reading and watching. She can still play the same sort of role in peters life as the real mary jane did but they can go bit more off script with her without the loyalists having a melt down. Cos she is their MJ not comic book Mj if you know what i mean.

I know i am really looking forward to this movie more so now from reading all the enthusiastic reviews, i am a little disappointed to read that Zendaya has such a small role in this film when she has been showcased so much in the posters and clips and press tour. But i guess thats the build up for the sequel where i imagine she be flushed out more in that story. Same it seems with donald glovers character which i read is more or less a cameo, which is a shame to hire such a popular character for such little screen time

I disagree in the sense that if you are not going to be sharing any of the main, defining traits of a character, then you shouldn't be that character in the first place.

should have just left her as Michelle with no connection to MJ. then they'd be free to take her in whatever direction they want and give her whatever traits they want.

 

[fionabinona]

Fair enough but lets say they did leave her as michelle and in future movies there is a romance/ love story that becomes part of this particular series/reboot. would fans then be giving out that peter should be with MJ or Gwen, that he is not meant to be with someone called michelle cos its not in the comics or the animated series.
Would u agree that at least this way there is some form of Mj in the series for peter to have his great love story with.

 

[X Knight]

Fair enough but lets say they did leave her as michelle and in future movies there is a romance/ love story that becomes part of this particular series/reboot. would fans then be giving out that peter should be with MJ or Gwen, that he is not meant to be with someone called michelle cos its not in the comics or the animated series.
Would u agree that at least this way there is some form of Mj in the series for peter to have his great love story with.

for me personally, I would rather they keep the characters separate.

if they want original character Michelle to be the main LI in this franchise, then fine. I would be severely disappointed because Peter does have iconic LIs like MJ and Gwen, and I want MJ this time.

However, if they just kept her as Michelle, then at least they wouldn't be "hijacking" another character like MJ and then I could judge Michelle on her own merits as a character.

now, though, Michelle is weighed down by the "baggage" of being tied to MJ when it was totally unneeded.

also, I see you joined the Hype this month. so, welcome to the Hype!!