Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 3

[SpideyJJ]

Spoiler

• Obnoxious/Annoying/Outlandish/Fanboy Peter Parker who is now their template for a teenaged Peter Parker in media as evident by the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon and Marvel's Spider-Man clips
• Spider-Man suit that does all the work for him that we know he keeps (clearly inspired by Iron Spider and ANAD suit)
• WITH GREAT POWER THERE MUST ALSO COME--GREAT FUN (as evident by many critics reactions)
• Aunt May finding out his secrets as a zinger to end the film
• Taking elements, scraps and bits-and-pieces from Miles for no real reason
• MJ in initials only
• Liz Allan's father being The Vulture
• Villains tied to Tony Stark
• Academic rival Flash Thompson
• Betty Stacy
• Lack of Uncle Ben essence (supposedly)
  etc. etc.

Good grief.

But you can't judge until you see the movie .

Idk man, I'll have to see the movie for myself but so far from what I've seen this doesn't feel like Ultimate Spider-Man like they claim to be inspired by

 

[PeterBenParker]

But you can't judge until you see the movie .

Idk man, I'll have to see the movie for myself but so far from what I've seen this doesn't feel like Ultimate Spider-Man like they claim to be inspired by

I think they just claim that whenever they decide, "Let's go back to high school!"

 

[X Knight]

i find that a powerful message i quite like.. but not a message i want for Mj

Agreed. Which is why she should've just been an original character. This aspect could of made Michelle a likable and relatable character.

I agree.

just because a character story arc is interesting or a message is powerful doesn't mean it's right for every character.

and speaking of adaptations and changes, that reminds me.

I just finished reading the fantastic miniseries Supergirl: Being Super.

it's an alternate take on young Kara Danver's life, basically combining Smallville elements with Supergirl.

It's a different take for sure, but it still retains core, recognizable, familiar elements.

Kara, for example, is still blonde with blue eyes. She grows up in small town Midvale ( which could be in Kansas ), is raised by the Danvers, and was sent to Earth by her parents on Krypton. She still has the classic Super powers, is powered by our Yellow sun, and is weak to Kryptonite.

And even in the final issue, they reveal that [BLACKOUT]both Superman AND Lex Luthor ( as well as Metropolis and the Daily Planet ) [/BLACKOUT] exist in this alternate take. So, even those core elements are retained.

The rest of her supporting cast is original ( as far as I know ).

For example, her 2 best friends in hs are Jen and Dolly. And Dolly is chubby, latina/black, and a lesbian.

And guess what, I like her! But she's an original character. They didn't try to force Kara into that character mold, nor did they hijack existing Superman/Supergirl characters.

No, they created an original character with Dolly and they were free to write her how they wanted.

and that's what I liked about this miniseries. There were new, original elements, yet also familiar elements that kept the main character and her circumstances recognizable.

That's how you do an adaptation.

 

[X Knight]

And that's just it. The spirit of the characters are what's most important, & next to Batman Spidey had the most iconic supporting cast. There were so many diverse characters from Peter's world not yet seen on the big screen that could have been used (TSSM did this brilliantly) that could have given the movie diversity & fresh faces for the GA/Critics with some Spidey fatigue as well as appeased/excited comic fans. Instead they're just mixing the characters up because 'lol differentiate from what's done before' (apparently that includes parts of the comics).

I made a similar post a few weeks ago in response to someone who said we should wait for the movie, because the movie could turn out great (can't remember who). My argument was that, it could be a good movie, heck it could even be a great movie (Critics seem to agree so far, thank goodness) but with all these pointless changes will it be a good SPIDER-MAN movie or just a good movie?

thanks guys! t:

I grew up reading Spider-Man characters. And Spidey ( and his world and supporting cast ) is my #2 hero ( after Superman, of course! ).

I'm a bit old fashioned and like the classic versions of these characters and stories ( not really a fan of what they are currently doing in the comics ).

In fact, once I heard they dissolved the marriage in the comics, that's when I lost interest. I said I'd only return to Spidey comics once they reinstated the marriage.

so that's why I'm so passionate and protective of these characters, MJ in particular.

 

[X Knight]

Spoiler

• Obnoxious/Annoying/Outlandish/Fanboy Peter Parker who is now their template for a teenaged Peter Parker in media as evident by the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon and Marvel's Spider-Man clips
• Spider-Man suit that does all the work for him that we know he keeps (clearly inspired by Iron Spider and ANAD suit)
• WITH GREAT POWER THERE MUST ALSO COME--GREAT FUN (as evident by many critics reactions)
• Aunt May finding out his secrets as a zinger to end the film
• Taking elements, scraps and bits-and-pieces from Miles for no real reason
• MJ in initials only
• Liz Allan's father being The Vulture
• Villains tied to Tony Stark
• Academic rival Flash Thompson
• Betty Stacy
• Lack of Uncle Ben essence (supposedly)
  etc. etc.

Good grief.

and some of those changes, on their own, wouldn't be that much of a problem if the rest of the film/world/characters were pretty much comic accurate and faithful.

but it's as you listed. a whole laundry list of changes and deviations. and it's that cumulative effect that has dampened my excitement and hype for this.

it's like one head scratching change after another that makes you go

 

[harryoscop]

and some of those changes, on their own, wouldn't be that much of a problem if the rest of the film/world/characters were pretty much comic accurate and faithful.

but it's as you listed. a whole laundry list of changes and deviations. and it's that cumulative effect that has dampened my excitement and hype for this.

it's like one head scratching change after another that makes you go

This. It seemed like every piece of news, everything that was revealed kept getting worse & worse. And what has been revealed in this thread is the culmination

 

[TheScarecrow]

This course with Mary Jane is odd.

Anyone who knows the fanbase knows they have a particular soft spot for MJ. Massive deviations like this were never going to go down well. It would spiral into a Mandarin-like controversy. Very odd choice for Marvel.

I have no problem with doing something different, but agree that they shouldn't have cannibalised MJ to do it. MJ is MJ. Fine if you don't want to use her.

There's also nothing wrong with making up supporting characters/love interests to serve a particular plot. Rachel Dawes comes to mind.

 

[Mysteryman]

If they had created another love interest, people would say, "Where was MJ"?
Marvel wasn't going to win either way on this one.

 

[fuflipflops]

If they had created another love interest, people would say, "Where was MJ"?
Marvel wasn't going to win either way on this one.

which is why they should've done mj. problem solved.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[harryoscop]

Why didn't Marvel let her play MJ like that

 

[Spider-man95]

If they had created another love interest, people would say, "Where was MJ"?
Marvel wasn't going to win either way on this one.

I honestly don't think many would be saying that. I think Liz should be the only love interest in this movie anyway.

 

[Charmqn]

I do want to see what they'll do with Michelle in the sequel? Are they going to keep her like that or start the whole "ugly duckling" to "swan" transformation.

 

[Dark Raven]

I do want to see what they'll do with Michelle in the sequel? Are they going to keep her like that or start the whole "ugly duckling" to "swan" transformation.

As I've said before, Michelle seems to be someone who shuns and mocks the cool kids and maybe even the "swans". How does she then go on to becoming one herself (possibly to fit in?) when she never was bothered about that before? And if she does have a physical transformation but her current frumpy and anti-social self is her true self, then for the rest of the series does that mean she's not actually being true to herself but projecting a fake persona?

But most arcs start with the fake persona and then unwrap it or "peel back the layers" as people like to say, and show us what is under the surface. That is even what John Hughes did with the Breakfast Club by deconstructing all the stereotypes that were in detention and showing that there was more to them than meets the eye. Mary Jane has always come across as somewhat superficial and a perenial party girl at the start, and it is only when we dig deeper that we discover that there is far more to MJ than first appears.

But here, we start with Michelle whose socially awkward personality seems to be her true self who takes on a fake persona at the end of the movie either to get more attention or to fit in. But is that just a lie? And if we dig deeper, is she supposed to undergo an arc again to become her true self again one day after realising that MJ was just a front for her?

And doesn't this make Peter himself also look bad because he only accepts her not as she is but only once she transforms from the ugly duckling into the beautiful swan?

 

[Arachnerd]

If they had created another love interest, people would say, "Where was MJ"?
Marvel wasn't going to win either way on this one.

Depends if it would be permanent or not. If Michelle was simply just 'Michelle' and a love interest in Peter's high school years, I don't think anyone would have too much of a problem with it.

On another note, I personally wouldn't want Zendaya to look as glamed up as that. Something akin to the Ultimate Spider-Man look would have been fine with me.

I do want to see what they'll do with Michelle in the sequel? Are they going to keep her like that or start the whole "ugly duckling" to "swan" transformation.

Eventually they'll have to do the latter, which is just...ugh. Unless Marvel somehow decides to retcon her as MJ in the future due to all the "backlash", I don't see any other route they could take with her character but that one, and that saddens me greatly.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

what the **** is wrong with you marvel?

She is beautiful and should be Mary Jane with THIS appearance.

her character is also 15 in the movie. sexualizing a 15 year old girl just because some perverted fanboys can't cope with change is maybe not the smartest idea

 

[Dark Raven]

No-one wants to sexualise her or are saying that she should be this supermodel already. It's the arc that she goes through where she physically transforms herself to either fit in or become more popular (like She's All That or Grease) which is what people have issue with. It sounds the complete opposite to Mary Jane in the comics.

And if that is only when Peter notices or accepts her, that makes him look bad too.

 

[AlluAllu]

Many reviews are praising Zendaya. Looks like the character is a hit.

Edit: Dark Raven, I don't think it's been confirmed that she goes through that kind of an arc.

 

[marvelrobbins]

marvel really doesn't change characters..stark is still the *****e he has been since iron man 2.

reviewers are calling michelle a tomboy.which is going to create more problems if she is indeed mcu version of MJ.

 

[Dark Raven]

Many reviews are praising Zendaya. Looks like the character is a hit.

Edit: Dark Raven, I don't think it's been confirmed that she goes through that kind of an arc.

But she would if she ends up looking like regular Zendaya as we normally see her.

 

[X Knight]

In regards to the posters who keep saying Zendaya's character is only 15 and shouldn't be glammed up like a model, I agree. No one here is saying she should be.

But that doesn't mean she has to look so dressed down and frumpy and unfashionable as Michelle.

Look at Liz and Betty/Gwetty in this film. Both girls are portrayed as cute/pretty/attractive and they both dress fashionable or "normal" ( with Liz probably being more fashionable than Betty ). Neither girl is glammed up to look like a sexy super model which would be inappropriate for their character's age. And yet, neither girl is deliberately dressed down to look frumpy, unfashionable, and plain.

If Michelle is indeed supposed to be Mary Jane Watson, a character who is in part defined by her beauty and attractiveness, all we are asking is why couldn't her character look more like Liz and Betty. No one is asking her to be glammed up like a sex object. But why go to such an opposite extreme to make her look so frumpy and plain ( which is counter to the character )?

if they wanted a more dressed down, "conservative" look for her, which would fit more the brainy/nerdy Ultimate MJ, then why not simply go for a look like these pics?

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

In these pics, she doesn't look as glammed up as "hot" Zendaya looks. She looks more studious, a bit nerdier, but she's still pretty and attractive. She's not some frumpy, unfashionable, plain looking girl like Michelle looks. And if she takes her glasses off, lets her hair down and styles it, and wears a nice dress to Homecoming, she would be the type to turn heads.

If they wanted to go more the brainy/nerdy Ultimate MJ route, with potential to become more like 616 MJ down the line, they should have gone with a look more like those pics above.

With Michelle, however, they went out of their way to deliberately make her look plain, frumpy, and unfashionable. They deliberately dressed her down and styled her down. Which fits and makes sense if her character is the type who doesn't give a crap about how she looks. Which may work for Michelle, but doesn't fit at all with Mary Jane Watson.

A Mary Jane Watson who doesn't care about her looks is like a Peter who doesn't care about studying and staying smart. It's counter and antithetical to the character.

 

[Abudefduf]

Many reviews are praising Zendaya. Looks like the character is a hit.

Of course they are. She's a very funny and charming person, I have no doubt her performance in Homecoming is as good as the critics are saying.
Which is why she should've been [BLACKOUT]Mary Jane, instead of whoever the heck she's playing[/BLACKOUT]. It's such a waste.

EDIT: Woops, forgot the spoilers tags. Sorry!

 

[X Knight]

Of course they are. She's a very funny and charming person, I have no doubt her performance in Homecoming is as good as the critics are saying.
Which is why she should've been Mary Jane, instead of whoever the heck she's playing. It's such a waste.

or, let her shine as original character Michelle. Let Michelle be her own character. Let Zendaya own that character and define that character.

instead of tying the MJ albatross around her neck.

 

[John Locke]

That's how Peter noticed Gwen in Spectacular Spider-Man.

 

[Arachnerd]

That's how Peter noticed Gwen in Spectacular Spider-Man.

Gotta be honest, that's one of the very few aspects I disliked about Spectacular Spider-Man. I know Pete's supposed to be a teenager and all, but him realizing he loves Gwen back with her change of look just didn't work for me.