Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 4

[UltimateWebhead]

Obviously I'll have to wait and see how this plays out over the series, but for me I'm going to be annoyed if they don't capture the spirit of MJ with this character. I don't really care about the race of the actress playing her, I can even deal with forgoing the red hair, but make her be true to the character she's based on. That's all I ask. If they don't do that...then it just makes me wonder why bother to say she's based on MJ to begin with?

while it's true that characters evolve and grow ( that's to be expected and desired ), it's not very encouraging or interesting ( to me ) if they start in a place so far removed ( to the point of being opposite ) from where the character should be.

It would be like a Peter who starts out as a dumb jock named Paul who, over the course of the film series, develops a love of science and studying and becomes the smart Peter we all know and love, even changing his name to be Peter cuz it sounds smarter ( or starts using his middle name Peter ).

Such a starting point for Peter does not suit the character at all because that's just not the character.

Same with Zendaya's character if she is indeed the new MJ. Her starting point in this film does not suit the character of Mary Jane Watson at all. She doesn't look like MJ at all. She doesn't act like MJ at all. She doesn't even have the right name.

If this is the starting point for the new MJ, then that doesn't interest me in the slightest and I'd say the writers and creative team have no clue ( or respect frankly ) about the character.

Based on what we know, imo, this appears to be yet another character that is basically an amalgamation. Michelle may have certain aspects to her character that are similar to Mary Jane but she'll probably also borrow other elements from other characters. We'll have to see how this plays out of course but that's the general feeling that I'm getting from this adaptation.

I'd have much preferred a more classic approach to the Mary Jane character and truly capture the spirit or core essence. I'm not really bothered by the race change, though I'd rather have the red hair vs not, but also I believe that Zendaya has the right type of charisma to pull off a classic MJ. So, if they don't utilize that, it's just disappointing.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

She has been introduced.
Lets see if she seems more like Mary Jane going forward.
Characters evolve as they grow.
Besides even Tom's characterization of Peter isn't the Peter that we know in the comics, not as a fully evolved hero anyway.

Agreed.

As a MJ fan myself, I already see enough similarities to buy the idea that she will evolve more into the character I've come to love. It may not be the introduction I wanted but given all the CB adaptations we've had thus far, I know not to go in expecting a character to have the exact look or personality s/he has in the comics. I see so many people here disappointed with certain changes with this movie and frankly, I'm baffled by it because we've been here before many times already with so many CBM. At this point, it's wholly unrealistic to expect page to screen adaptations with no notable changes.

 

[Mysteryman]

I think think that there might be a lot of young girls out there who look a lot more like Michelle as portrayed in Homecoming Than any Supermodel.
They might relate to Michelle.
I think that is at least a possibility.

 

[terry78]

Yeah, I suspect that's part of the reason for the change also. They already got Liz Allan as the insanely hot girly girl.

 

[Avenging Angel]

They're doing everything possible for most of us to turn away from this movie.

 

[Mysteryman]

I will be seeing it on my birthday, which unfortunately is week from Saturday.

I did the same thing with Spider-Man 2 and that worked out great, so I am hopeful.

 

[Mysteryman]

Even if that wasn't their intent.
Some girls might relate to Michelle.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

They're doing everything possible for most of us to turn away from this movie.

Who?? From what I've seen, the majority of spidey fans are excited about this movie, even with the changes. Regardless, the movie isn't just for SM fans. As is the case with most movies, the GA will determine the success of this movie and most won't even notice the things fans are complaining about.

 

[Surfer]

Who?? From what I've seen, the majority of spidey fans are excited about this movie, even with the changes. Regardless, the movie isn't just for SM fans. As is the case with most movies, the GA will determine the success of this movie and most won't even notice the things fans are complaining about.

Exactly this! ^^^ Also, Michelle is only introduced in SHC and they will have many opportunities in the sequels to have her personality and looks evolve into something more similar to Mary Jane from the comics. I mean there are even legitamate ways they could change her name to Mary Jane within the movies. Sure I agree they would have been better off if they had called her Mary Jane from the beginning, but that is not what they decided to do and her introduction is set at this point . So now it is all about looking for the best path forward and how to take Michelle's MCU introduction and have it evolve into Mary Jane from the comics. I think if people got beyond their anger they might have fun speculating on the different paths that Marvel can take to bring about Michelle's transformation into Mary Jane or even ways they can change her name. Here's one. She changes her name to Mary Jane to give her father the middle finger as he is Abusive and he chose the name Michelle. So she wants nothing to do with him and nothing to remind her of him and she decides to change her name to Mary Jane. As for her looks she is still at home and poor and wears hand me downs in SHC. Then when she turns 16 or 17 in the Sequel she starts waiting tables which turns into her having money to buy her own clothes and she starts to care about her looks. Once she changes her appearance her personality starts becoming friendlier, more confident and a person that is fun to be around. She had this in her all along but it was not until people started treating her differently that she had the confidence to become this girl. Sure right now she might act like she doesn't care, but that could just be an act or self preservation. Anyways, I am just saying there is a lot of ways Marvel can end up with Michelle being more or less the Mary Jane we know from the comics in the Sequels. So we we should try to have fun with it, be creative and speculate.

Surfer

 

[terry78]

They ain't wasting Zendaya in a one off character. They obviously plan on setting her up for future stuff.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Zendaya isn't going anywhere. She tested with Tom and is already said to have a bigger role in the sequel. It looks like she's the MCU's MJ/Peter's endgame, whether or not she ever actually becomes Mary Jane.

Exactly this! ^^^ Also, Michelle is only introduced in SHC and they will have many opportunities in the sequels to have her personality and looks evolve into something more similar to Mary Jane from the comics. I mean there are even legitamate ways they could change her name to Mary Jane within the movies. Sure I agree they would have been better off if they had called her Mary Jane from the beginning, but that is not what they decided to do and her introduction is set at this point . So now it is all about looking for the best path forward and how to take Michelle's MCU introduction and have it evolve into Mary Jane from the comics. I think if people got beyond their anger they might have fun speculating on the different paths that Marvel can take to bring about Michelle's transformation into Mary Jane or even ways they can change her name. Here's one. She changes her name to Mary Jane to give her father the middle finger as he is Abusive and he chose the name Michelle. So she wants nothing to do with him and nothing to remind her of him and she decides to change her name to Mary Jane. As for her looks she is still at home and poor and wears hand me downs in SHC. Then when she turns 16 or 17 in the Sequel she starts waiting tables which turns into her having money to buy her own clothes and she starts to care about her looks. Once she changes her appearance her personality starts becoming friendlier, more confident and a person that is fun to be around. She had this in her all along but it was not until people started treating her differently that she had the confidence to become this girl. Sure right now she might act like she doesn't care, but that could just be an act or self preservation. Anyways, I am just saying there is a lot of ways Marvel can end up with Michelle being more or less the Mary Jane we know from the comics in the Sequels. So we we should try to have fun with it, be creative and speculate.

Surfer

Basically. I'm not going to tell other people how to feel but if you're not open to change, you're bound to end up disappointed.

 

[sl500jazz]

Agreed.

As a MJ fan myself, I already see enough similarities to buy the idea that she will evolve more into the character I've come to love. It may not be the introduction I wanted but given all the CB adaptations we've had thus far, I know not to go in expecting a character to have the exact look or personality s/he has in the comics. I see so many people here disappointed with certain changes with this movie and frankly, I'm baffled by it because we've been here before many times already with so many CBM. At this point, it's wholly unrealistic to expect page to screen adaptations with no notable changes.

Change is an absolute given, but I think it's more a matter of how much change each individual is willing to accept. I'm fine with change so long as the essence of the character is captured. As far as we know (if Zendaya is in fact MCU MJ) , we're losing the visual iconography of her being a redhead, the character's classic introduction, her characterization as being a flirt and a bombshell, her party girl persona, her vivacious personality, etc. On top of that, we're even losing her name. If only a couple of these things were missing from the equation, it would be much easier to support. However, at this point, the only concrete thing connecting this character to the character from the comics are her initials. Sure, some of these things may change in the future, but they may not. As such, it's difficult for me to view Michelle as anything oher than an entirely new character.

Regardless, it's not going to kill my enjoyment of film. As an MJ fan, I may be disappointed, but I can still appreciate a good Spider-Man movie.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Who?? From what I've seen, the majority of spidey fans are excited about this movie, even with the changes. Regardless, the movie isn't just for SM fans. As is the case with most movies, the GA will determine the success of this movie and most won't even notice the things fans are complaining about.

Half of me just wants to check it out, the other part just thinks this is quite silly. Money doesn't determine quality, the Raimi films still hold up even with SM3. I'm curious though, what exactly is there to be excited about?

 

[X Knight]

Change is an absolute given, but I think it's more a matter of how much change each individual is willing to accept. I'm fine with change so long as the essence of the character is captured. As far as we know (if Zendaya is in fact MCU MJ) , we're losing the visual iconography of her being a redhead, the character's classic introduction, her characterization as being a flirt and a bombshell, her party girl persona, her vivacious personality, etc. On top of that, we're even losing her name. If only a couple of these things were missing from the equation, it would be much easier to support. However, at this point, the only concrete thing connecting this character to the character from the comics are her initials. Sure, some of these things may change in the future, but they may not. As such, it's difficult for me to view Michelle as anything oher than an entirely new character.

Regardless, it's not going to kill my enjoyment of film. As an MJ fan, I may be disappointed, but I can still appreciate a good Spider-Man movie.

exactly this!

there's a difference between making changes for an adaptation and doing essentially a complete rewrite/overhaul of a character.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Wasn't it obvious they were creating a new character when they gave her nothing essential of what makes MJ who she is? She isn't even a CINO, the fact that people are calling her "a version of MCU MJ" isn't even what she is.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Change is an absolute given, but I think it's more a matter of how much change each individual is willing to accept. I'm fine with change so long as the essence of the character is captured. As far as we know (if Zendaya is in fact MCU MJ) , we're losing the visual iconography of her being a redhead, the character's classic introduction, her characterization as being a flirt and a bombshell, her party girl persona, her vivacious personality, etc. On top of that, we're even losing her name. If only a couple of these things were missing from the equation, it would be much easier to support. However, at this point, the only concrete thing connecting this character to the character from the comics are her initials. Sure, some of these things may change in the future, but they may not. As such, it's difficult for me to view Michelle as anything oher than an entirely new character.

Regardless, it's not going to kill my enjoyment of film. As an MJ fan, I may be disappointed, but I can still appreciate a good Spider-Man movie.

Here's the thing, we don't know what we're losing, as this is merely the introduction to a character who's obviously going to get some character development. Can we be unhappy with her introduction? Sure. But I'm seeing a whole lot of assuming based on nothing but said introduction, a whole of "MJ would do/say such and such" which suggests that a character can't evolve or that some are only willing to accept a certain depiction of their favorite character. And that's some setting themselves up for disappointment.

They are all stupid there

& if its between having these in name only side characters / world & having no Spider-Man at all I would rather have no Spider-Man at all & MARVEL is forced to be creative with what they have

But you are going to get a spider-man movie, regardless. The question becomes, do you want a good spider-man movie or another solely Sony-produced spider-man movie, which is likely to be a mess?

Half of me just wants to check it out, the other part just thinks this is quite silly. Money doesn't determine quality, the Raimi films still hold up even with SM3. I'm curious though, what exactly is there to be excited about?

My point wasn't about money determining quality...rather, you can't speak for "most of us" and even if you could, spidey fans aren't the only ones or the main group who'll determine if this movie is good/successful.

As for what there is to be excited about, well... a critically acclaimed SM movie, one with good buzz, one that's actually centered on Peter in high school?? If none of that excites because you're not getting everything you want, exactly as you want it...well, I can't relate.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Wasn't it obvious they were creating a new character when they gave her nothing essential of what makes MJ who she is? She isn't even a CINO, the fact that people are calling her "a version of MCU MJ" isn't even what she is.

Well, if she has MJ's initials and will be using them going forward, she *is* MCU's MJ, whether or not she looks/acts like comic MJ.

 

[sl500jazz]

Here's the thing, we don't know what we're losing, as this is merely the introduction to a character who's obviously going to get some character development. Can we be unhappy with her introduction? Sure. But I'm seeing a whole lot of assuming based on nothing but said introduction, a whole of "MJ would do/say such and such" which suggests that a character can't evolve or that some are only willing to accept a certain depiction of their favorite character. And that's some setting themselves up for disappointment.

But saying that she's going to evolve into a more Mary Jane like character-- is that not also an assumption? We know little about Michelle,. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm judging based on the information we do have. I'm sure Michelle will have some character arc over the course of the franchise, but she may not evolve in the way that you or I would hope or expect. If anything I'm trying to be realistic and temper my expectations.

 

[Avenging Angel]

My point wasn't about money determining quality...rather, you can't speak for "most of us" and even if you could, spidey fans aren't the only ones or the main group who'll determine if this movie is good/successful.

As for what there is to be excited about, well... a critically acclaimed SM movie, one with good buzz, one that's actually centered on Peter in high school?? If none of that excites because you're not getting everything you want, exactly as you want it...well, I can't relate.

Purists is what I mean and yes most of us are purists who care what the MCU does to iconic characters. Success means a great story is told, with all it's essential elements lined up, including personal traits and trademarks that make a character who they are if you are doing "a version of" them.

I recall when SM1 came out there was this enormous buzz around it, possibly because it had never been done before and it was patriotic to NYC at the time of 9/11. It did a great job of setting up the characters for all its nit picks here and there. Tobey was Peter Parker/Spidey, Kirsten was mostly MJ, still waiting on a faithful reiteration, Franco played a decent Harry and Willem was an excellent Norman, he IS the Green Goblin! They are great films for what they were at the time.

I could say maybe Keaton holds my interest because he is a seasoned actor and knows the superhero franchise like the back of his hand. The rest are relative unknowns and Tom, I keep going eh with him. Sure he looks like Peter, but is he Spidey? Doesn't sound it if he's obsessed with becoming an Avenger. What about the supporting cast? I have no idea who they are. Can they deliver? Are they going to make me care about them? So I'm sorry, not a whole lot holds my interest other then Vulture and seeing what they either mock up with the story along with the beloved characters. That's all I'm after, the writing and pure performance, I could care less about the CGI and popcorn entertainment aspect which I know will saturate the film.

 

[Avenging Angel]

But saying that she's going to evolve into a more Mary Jane like character-- is that not also an assumption? We know little about Michelle,. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm judging based on the information we do have. I'm sure Michelle will have some character arc over the course of the franchise, but she may not evolve in the way that you or I would hope or expect. If anything I'm trying to be realistic and temper my expectations.

Do you think

Spoiler

the reason why they are holding back with Michelle is because what they said about her "friends calling her MJ" is true? If so then the verdict is in! We all called it.

 

[Shikamaru]

Basically. I'm not going to tell other people how to feel but if you're not open to change, you're bound to end up disappointed.

Generally I agree with this sentiment, but there's also an economics side in this case.

There's demand for classic MJ, but Marvel hasn't supplied it for the past 10 years. Naturally when Feige doesn't supply it either, there's bound to be some backlash. I suspect the bitterness wouldn't be as strong if Peter and MJ were together in another version.

Hopefully the new video game does classic MJ.

 

[terry78]

They haven't done MJ since like 2007. Like serious relationship MJ. She was in Ultimate Spider-Man but as a schoolyard platonic chum. The new Marvel cartoons seem intent on not including any romance whatsoever.

 

[Surfer]

But saying that she's going to evolve into a more Mary Jane like character-- is that not also an assumption? We know little about Michelle,. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm judging based on the information we do have. I'm sure Michelle will have some character arc over the course of the franchise, but she may not evolve in the way that you or I would hope or expect. If anything I'm trying to be realistic and temper my expectations.

I would agree it is making assumptions, but I believe Keven Feige cares about the Marvel characters and that he cares about pleasing the fans. So it is the trust I have in Marvel Studios that allows me to believe that their plan is to evolve Michelle into Mary Jane from the comics. Sure I as well as others could be absolutely wrong, but given Marvels track record I trust them to do Mary Jane justice. The only time I questioned Marvels integrity of their characters was the Mandarin situation, but even then they saw their Mistake and fixed it so a real Mandarin can still potentially appear in an Iron Man 4. I mean they did that for the fans because yeah they screwed up, but it also shows they care what fans think. So, I would chose to remain positive and see the possibilities then to think this is as good as it gets when disappointed.

Surfer

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

But saying that she's going to evolve into a more Mary Jane like character-- is that not also an assumption? We know little about Michelle,. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm judging based on the information we do have. I'm sure Michelle will have some character arc over the course of the franchise, but she may not evolve in the way that you or I would hope or expect. If anything I'm trying to be realistic and temper my expectations.

I'm not assuming that. I'm saying it's obvious that she's going to evolve as a character, whomever she turns out to be. Whether or not she's Mary Jane remains to be seen but there is a foundation for that evolution, I think.

Purists is what I mean and yes most of us are purists who care what the MCU does to iconic characters. Success means a great story is told, with all it's essential elements lined up, including personal traits and trademarks that make a character who they are if you are doing "a version of" them.

This is very much a subjective POV. There is no one way to tell or measure what qualifies as a great story. In general, success is determined by fan/critical reception and box office numbers. If you can only accept a story if it has everything you desire from the comics, then it's best to probably stick with said comics. An adaptation will almost always have some changes, including those viewed as essential to the source material.

Generally I agree with this sentiment, but there's also an economics side in this case.

There's demand for classic MJ, but Marvel hasn't supplied it for the past 10 years. Naturally when Feige doesn't supply it either, there's bound to be some backlash. I suspect the bitterness wouldn't be as strong if Peter and MJ were together in another version.

Hopefully the new video game does classic MJ.

Oh, I get that. I understand where the frustration stems from. Still, none of us should expect to get exactly what we want from any adaptation, certainly not a big screen adaptation. There are just too many variables in play.

 

[Infinity9999x]

As I said before, if they are making her the Mary Jane of this franchise, and give her that name, I just hope they stay true to the spirit of the character.

One thing I will say, even though she appears to be much more abrasive than comic MJ was, I do enjoy the fact that she seems to be clearly confident. Comic Mary Jane was always that, even if it wasn't this particular flavor of confident. Even more than that, I hope they explore the reasons why Mary Jane develops her strong sense of confidence and "nothing can bother me" attitude. That's what made comic MJ an interesting an layered character, once we learned that her party girl, "nothing bothers me, I'm all about fun" attitude was her way of coping with a rough home life, it made her much more interesting. Even more so, it was wonderful to see those moments when Mary Jane did get real, which was usually when one of her friends really needed her.

So if we see similar elements of that with this version of MJ, I'll be happy. So maybe they've substituted the "I'm all about fun and nothing bothers me" demeanor for, "You can't bother me because I'm smarter than you and I'll constantly rib you with sarcastic comments," but at least they're making her confident. Wheras the Raimi MJ was almost perpetually depressed, if we're going to have a Mary Jane that's not the comic MJ, at least having her have a sense of confidence and unflappability is somewhat closer to the spirit of who Mary Jane is.