Apocalypse Things you didn't like in X-Men: Apocalypse (Spoilers)

[ThanosOfTitans]

no need to fight about it! But you have obviously a horrible taste in movies and no particular sensitivity when it comes to identity politics of minorities if X3 does not offend you vigorously to the core. #straightmaleopinions

lol I'm not sure where you're going with this, and I am not sure I want to know. I enjoyed X2 and X3. The latest entry greatly underwhelmed me. Period. Not trying to get all super engaged about it lol Keep in mind that Apoc is one of my fav Marvel villains along with a list of others. I wanted to enjoy this movie, but I didn't for a host of reasons that have already been mentioned and made abundantly clear by other posters. I'll never understand why X3 gets so much hate. I saw Age of Apocalypse twice, the second viewing was even more perplexing than the first viewing. -_-

 

[Kanon]

lol I'm not sure where you're going with this, and I am not sure I want to know. I enjoyed X2 and X3. The latest entry greatly underwhelmed me. Period. Not trying to get all super engaged about it lol Keep in mind that Apoc is one of my fav Marvel villains along with a list of others. I wanted to enjoy this movie, but I didn't for a host of reasons that have already been mentioned and made abundantly clear by other posters. I'll never understand why X3 gets so much hate. I saw Age of Apocalypse twice, the second viewing was even more perplexing than the first viewing. -_-

I enjoy X3 a lot too, but I see why people complain, specially about the pacing issues, and the story, sometimes naive/campy, sometimes throwing characters under the bus (like killing off Cyclops for almost no reason, and making Prof X seem like an a-hole putting blocks on Jean).

I feel like they did nothing with Apocalypse, and all the storytelling problems of X3 could be attributed to XMA too. And both movies kinda wasted the greatest non-Magneto X-Foes, just that X3 wasn't as big of a disservice of Phoenix as Apocalypse IMO.

 

[BoredGuy]

X3's biggest problem was (much like TDKR) that it came out after such a well received, beloved movie, and could never really hope to compare... if it had come out this year instead of X:A, it might've been better received

it's second biggest problem was jamming together two plots that should've had their own movie, but I could write whole pages about that

 

[GuestStar2004]

I feel like they did nothing with Apocalypse, and all the storytelling problems of X3 could be attributed to XMA too. And both movies kinda wasted the greatest non-Magneto X-Foes, just that X3 wasn't as big of a disservice of Phoenix as Apocalypse IMO.

So you preferred non fire bired dark eyes Phoenix? There is probably a better word to describe her look but In my opinion the difference between X3 and apocalypse is that apocalypse likes the fans, X3 doesn't

X3 killed cyclops, cured rogue as some sorta conclusion to her arc, gave us a dark eyes Phoenix.

There are actually loads of issues I personally have like wolverine feeling like the main character, storm getting a bigger role which wasn't very well done and berry seemed to be trying to hard to be dramatic and the really confused love interest thing when wolverine has to save the girl he loved heroically and has to kill her to save her then her grave is right next to Scott's who she killed... How sweet.

 

[GuestStar2004]

X3's biggest problem was (much like TDKR) that it came out after such a well received, beloved movie, and could never really hope to compare... if it had come out this year instead of X:A, it might've been better received

it's second biggest problem was jamming together two plots that should've had their own movie, but I could write whole pages about that

Way to kind to X3

 

[BoredGuy]

haha, well not really, like I said, I could unload with pages about my numerous smaller issues, but this is the X:A thread, not TLS, so I thought it would be inappropriate

 

[kguillou]

This may sound weird but because of DOFP,X3 is now watchable and enjoyable to me. I couldnt really watch that movie before because it would just upset me, but I can now watch the movie knowing in the back of my mind that all of the crappy parts (like Cyclops' offscreen demise) dont matter and will be reversed.

 

[Kanon]

So you preferred non fire bired dark eyes Phoenix? There is probably a better word to describe her look but In my opinion the difference between X3 and apocalypse is that apocalypse likes the fans, X3 doesn't

X3 killed cyclops, cured rogue as some sorta conclusion to her arc, gave us a dark eyes Phoenix.

There are actually loads of issues I personally have like wolverine feeling like the main character, storm getting a bigger role which wasn't very well done and berry seemed to be trying to hard to be dramatic and the really confused love interest thing when wolverine has to save the girl he loved heroically and has to kill her to save her then her grave is right next to Scott's who she killed... How sweet.

There are a lot of crappy things going on with X3, not arguing there (as mentioned by both of us). Now, the Phoenix thing, yeah, it's awful, but the new version we are getting looks to be the same with just improved visuals. I mean, I wish we had gotten the firebird and all before, but it's done and I don't need it redone just for that. The big things are either done (Jean out of control, she asking to kill her), or are not going to be done (the cosmic aspect is being ignored, again). That's why Apocalypse is on par in that aspect to X3, while inferior in others.

 

[psylockolussus]

X3's biggest problem was (much like TDKR) that it came out after such a well received, beloved movie, and could never really hope to compare... if it had come out this year instead of X:A, it might've been better received

Well it is better received with critics and at the box-office than Apocalypse.

 

[GuestStar2004]

If X3 had been released today it would probably be rated a lot lower by critics.

I remember after X3 the universe felt tired to me, all the mutant cameos and army of unknown useless mutants felt like they drained the idea at that point while FC I thought did a good job of reintroducing mutants in a fresh way

 

[DavidHaller]

Well it is better received with critics and at the box-office than Apocalypse.

oh come on, for Christ's sake! X-Men Apocalypse was surely a huge disappointment on many levels after the beautiful Days of Future Past and X2 but by far not as horrible and dumb as Ratner's X3!

 

[psylockolussus]

No one is arguing with that. But still X3 still became the highest grossing X-Men film in America (stil is) and not the third lowest-grossing. And it has a better RT rating.

 

[DavidHaller]

No one is arguing with that. But still X3 still became the highest grossing X-Men film in America (stil is) and not the third lowest-grossing. And it has a better RT rating.

yeah so what? dumb movies make a lot of money. The end.

 

[Kanon]

I would argue that X3 is better than Apocalypse, but I'll reserve that judgement until I have seen Apoc a couple more times. I have only seen XMA once, but at first glance, I got the impression that there are as many bad things as in X3 or Origins Wolverine, but less redeeming qualities.

 

[DavidHaller]

yeah well, "X:A" was surely a disappointment but at least not offensive on so many levels. I found the politics behind X3 shockingly heteronormative. Especially after X2's message:

how horribly misogynistic was X3? Honestly what Ratner and Kinberg did to Jean Grey and Rogue in this movie is without excuse:

Jean: mindraped and controlled by her teacher and an obvious metaphor for an out of control female sexuality which has to be put to death by phallic claws of the male hero!

Rogue: She gives up on her identity because her boyfriend has an affair? You cannot constantly produce or evoke mutants as a metaphor for minorities and then 'imply' that it is totally okay to cure your homosexuality or blackness. Just no!

---

Singer's "X:A" clearly tries to redeem the character Jean Grey from X3's misogynistic depiction (in brief: let it go, Jean vs. She needs to be controlled). I think "X:A" can only be understood in relation to X3 anyway as Singer's meta-comment.

I obviously also dislike "X-Men: Apocalpyse" for a mediocre script without imagination but at least it brings the 2 trilogies together and helps to produce a coherent whole for the entire series. Re-watching all seven movies is now a great series-like experience.

 

[Legion91]

I agree with all of you.

And Apocalypse was nerfed like Xavier in all x men movies basically. He can rearrange matter on a molecular level across a city-wide scale. Why not just atomize the x men? He could easily kill all the X-Men, and then take Xavier .-. Bad writing.

 

[X-Maniac]

I agree with all of you.

And Apocalypse was nerfed like Xavier in all x men movies basically. He can rearrange matter on a molecular level across a city-wide scale. Why not just atomize the x men? He could easily kill all the X-Men, and then take Xavier .-. Bad writing.

LOL... Now THAT ^^^^ would be bad writing. Seriously? You want all the X-Men atomised? How in God's name would the film and franchise continue after that?!

 

[Legion91]

LOL... Now THAT ^^^^ would be bad writing. Seriously? You want all the X-Men atomised? How in God's name would the film and franchise continue after that?!

I don't want all the X-Men atomised. But Apocalypse that does not use any power against the x men is stupid.

 

[DavidHaller]

I don't want all the X-Men atomised. But Apocalypse that does not use any power against the x men is stupid.

I agree. Also for me he became suddenly VERY defensive in the last third of the movie (when he was getting punched by Quicksilver, then attacked by Magneto's flying metal shards, then by Jean's Phoenix fire. He only parried without attacking and looked very weak actually for being the strongest mutant of them all. Singer only led him deal some blows against Xavier for a brief moment)

...I guess the idea was that the failed body transfer to Charles maybe weakened him and that he was revealed to be only a false god?? Being attacked physically and mentally at the same time is probably also for a god-like creature a little exhausting or confusing.

overall the final battle vs Apocalpyse was very weak cinematographically. the astral plane moment with Xavier was nice in the beginning but became quickly boring. same goes to Jean: BEAUTIFUL set up, fantastically directed, but the actual defeat of Apocalypse by Jean and the others looked very off again.

 

[henzINNIT]

The Last Stand and Apocalypse are about tied for me. They both have huge flaws, but different ones.

X3's biggest problem was (much like TDKR) that it came out after such a well received, beloved movie, and could never really hope to compare... if it had come out this year instead of X:A, it might've been better received

it's second biggest problem was jamming together two plots that should've had their own movie, but I could write whole pages about that

I think the cure/phoenix plot could co-exist pretty well to be honest. They draw from similar themes. If it wasn't an hour too short, the film could have done both arcs some justice.

 

[iacobusleo]

I think the cure/phoenix plot could co-exist pretty well to be honest. They draw from similar themes. If it wasn't an hour too short, the film could have done both arcs some justice.

You're the first one I've seen to say this, and I agree completely.

Phoenix is basically a cautionary tale about what happens when a mutant gets too much power. The cure is a possible means of controlling that power. They CAN be used together in one story, especially since the original Dark Phoenix Saga had Jean briefly neutralized by a 'mind dampener' device before the final battle on the moon. The original story was also supposed to end with Jean being lobotomized and stripped of her power. It is very easy to put the cure in as a possible solution for the X-Men to save Jean without killing her, and what are the ethics of doing that.

X3's sin is not that it smashed those two stories together. Its sin is smashing them together but not letting those plotlines intersect in any meaningful or interesting way.

 

[DavidHaller]

You're the first one I've seen to say this, and I agree completely.

Phoenix is basically a cautionary tale about what happens when a mutant gets too much power. The cure is a possible means of controlling that power. They CAN be used together in one story, especially since the original Dark Phoenix Saga had Jean briefly neutralized by a 'mind dampener' device before the final battle on the moon. The original story was also supposed to end with Jean being lobotomized and stripped of her power. It is very easy to put the cure in as a possible solution for the X-Men to save Jean without killing her, and what are the ethics of doing that.

X3's sin is not that it smashed those two stories together. Its sin is smashing them together but not letting those plotlines intersect in any meaningful or interesting way.

true, I agree. Ethically it is also not so different what Xavier actually did to Jean Grey. He suppressed her mutant powers with mental blocks. He basically 'cured' her before her powers came back and she took revenge. I never understood why Ratner did not felt the need to bring both plots closer together?

it even sounds similar: they developed an antibody that can suppress the mutant gene, permanently...the mutant Jean needs to be controlled...

 

[GuestStar2004]

true, I agree. Ethically it is also not so different what Xavier actually did to Jean Grey. He suppressed her mutant powers with mental blocks. He basically 'cured' her before her powers came back and she took revenge. I never understood why Ratner did not felt the need to bring both plots closer together?

Well he didn't cure her, she still had her powers but he blocked a part of her powers he was concerned about.

as for why she killed him... she killed cyclops, she tried to kill wolverine at the end... she killed because she couldn't stop herself clearly

 

[psylockolussus]

yeah so what? dumb movies make a lot of money. The end.

So what? it means it did good business despite being not great. Studios make movies to make money after all. Thing is some movies that suck can still do good business (X3), then the others that aren't good, will just underperform/disappoint (like Apocalypse) at the box-office or just bomb. I say, the former is better.

 

[henzINNIT]

You're the first one I've seen to say this, and I agree completely.

Phoenix is basically a cautionary tale about what happens when a mutant gets too much power. The cure is a possible means of controlling that power. They CAN be used together in one story, especially since the original Dark Phoenix Saga had Jean briefly neutralized by a 'mind dampener' device before the final battle on the moon. The original story was also supposed to end with Jean being lobotomized and stripped of her power. It is very easy to put the cure in as a possible solution for the X-Men to save Jean without killing her, and what are the ethics of doing that.

X3's sin is not that it smashed those two stories together. Its sin is smashing them together but not letting those plotlines intersect in any meaningful or interesting way.

true, I agree. Ethically it is also not so different what Xavier actually did to Jean Grey. He suppressed her mutant powers with mental blocks. He basically 'cured' her before her powers came back and she took revenge. I never understood why Ratner did not felt the need to bring both plots closer together?

it even sounds similar: they developed an antibody that can suppress the mutant gene, permanently...the mutant Jean needs to be controlled...

Exactly! The plots as they are presented quite naturally complement each other. Moreso than the film bothers to address.

'A father develops a cure for his mutant son, a questionable decision that galvanizes everyone in the cast. Magneto would logically want to take drastic action, and in the Phoenix he sees a real opportunity. Jean's return is a great motivator for humanity to weaponize a cure. Where will the X-Men stand in an ethical crisis when they are fighting one of their own? A massive political war takes place alongside a battle for Jean's soul.'

This really works and gives all the key players something to do. The film practically writes itself when you think of all the interesting character conflicts within it. It's a huge story. This plot is much better than Apocalypse in my opinion, it was just horribly under-cooked.