TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 3

[Lionbush]

Here's two reviews that I agree with completely.
http://thrillbent.com/blog/man-of-steel-since-you-asked/

http://http://toynewsi.com/news.php?catid=10&itemid=20581

I really don't see how so many people can over look all of these problems and still say this is a great movie.

Because opinions on films is a subjective thing, and people may not agree with those opinions.

Those 'problems' may not be problems in other people eyes.

 

[The Guard]

I think MAN OF STEEL, structurally, was fairly similar to BATMAN BEGINS.

They chose a lesser known and arguably lesser important villain in General Zod, and spent the lion's share of the movie developing Superman and revealing him to the world. Where the films differ is that Batman, by nature is a more cerebral, detective-oriented character with stories along those lines, and Superman tends to be a bit more about diplomacy and feats of strength. And that's the main place where the films differed, in my eyes. Well, that, and Lois wasn't lecturing Superman constantly about what choices he should make in his life, but I chalk that up to Goyer being a better writer now than he was ten years ago.

 

[BlueLantern]

Unless someone's living under a rock and hasn't seen any Superman movies, I'm pretty sure people know who Zod is if nothing but for the 'KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!'

 

[Joeyjojo72]

You would be wrong about that. There are hundreds of millions (billions?) of people on the planet who haven't seen the Donner films, either because they are young or live in countries where those movies arent part of the popular culture. That you assume otherwise suggests that you're the one living under a provincial "rock". Sheesh.

 

[BlueLantern]

Seriously, what the hell is it with people not reading? I clearly state and hasn't seen a Superman film. If they haven't, then it's understandable. If they have, they'd know.

 

[Daybreak_st]

The difference to me is....no one but some government men and a few scientists know that Thor is an alien. The people in the New Mexico town weren't told that they were being attacked by an alien race. The Kryptonians showed up in a spaceship that travelled all around the world and announced who and what they were.

And yet despite all the warnings about "people aren't ready" etc we never actually get to see much response, particularly not in regards to Superman. NO ONE reacts to him other than Lois and the Military.

 

[BlueLantern]

Well this is one of the problems. Through development and scale, it makes things a world event but forgets to actually include the world in the event apart from the rave party energy beam destroying parts of Metropolis.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

you need to work on your use of the word "and" and "or". you'll be better understood. free advice.

 

[Daybreak_st]

I think MAN OF STEEL, structurally, was fairly similar to BATMAN BEGINS.

They chose a lesser known and arguably lesser important villain in General Zod, and spent the lion's share of the movie developing Superman and revealing him to the world. Where the films differ is that Batman, by nature is a more cerebral, detective-oriented character with stories along those lines, and Superman tends to be a bit more about diplomacy and feats of strength. And that's the main place where the films differed, in my eyes. Well, that, and Lois wasn't lecturing Superman constantly about what choices he should make in his life, but I chalk that up to Goyer being a better writer now than he was ten years ago.

Man of Steel TRIED to be the Batman Begins for Superman but failed. Where Batman begins made you understand the psychology of Bruce Wayne MoS just makes you feel sorry for Clark. At no time do we actually get much personality. He just comes across as a quite guy who fades in the shadows. As Nolan stated the chief premise of Begins was for the audience to truly care for Bruce Wayne. In MoS you feel sorry for Clark, especially as a kid but a no time do I really...like him. Finally when he becomes Superman it gets a bit better, he talks more, you get a sense of his personality.

Begins also shows us the tradegdy of his parents death, by emphasizing in a just a few scenes what a loving dad Bruce had. You get the distinct impression that if they had lived Bruce would've had a happy life. So their death is so much more tragic. I don't feel that way about Johnathan Kent. He's frankly not very likable as a father. The only two scenes with any sense of warmth are when he says "you are my son" and then the final scene when clark is a kid in the cape. Everything else is cold. They miss a mark that Begins achieved. Where Begins gives warmth to the scenes with his dad MoS provides a melancholy vibe. Maybe that was the intent. If so it robs this film of something that would've added a great deal to it. Heart.

 

[BlueLantern]

You need to work on your use of the word "and" and "or". You'll be better understood. Free advice.

Punctuation's good. That's my little nugget of free advice.

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

Man of Steel TRIED to be the Batman Begins for Superman but failed. Where Batman begins made you understand the psychology of Bruce Wayne MoS just makes you feel sorry for Clark. At no time do we actually get much personality. He just comes across as a quite guy who fades in the shadows. As Nolan stated the chief premise of Begins was for the audience to truly care for Bruce Wayne. In MoS you feel sorry for Clark, especially as a kid but a no time do I really...like him. Finally when he becomes Superman it gets a bit better, he talks more, you get a sense of his personality.

Begins also shows us the tradegdy of his parents death, by emphasizing in a just a few scenes what a loving dad Bruce had. You get the distinct impression that if they had lived Bruce would've had a happy life. So their death is so much more tragic. I don't feel that way about Johnathan Kent. He's frankly not very likable as a father. The only two scenes with any sense of warmth are when he says "you are my son" and then the final scene when clark is a kid in the cape. Everything else is cold. They miss a mark that Begins achieved. Where Begins gives warmth to the scenes with his dad MoS provides a melancholy vibe. Maybe that was the intent. If so it robs this film of something that would've added a great deal to it. Heart.

This is pretty much the whole point of him discovering himself I think.

One of the things I noticed was how quickly he found himself once he put on the suit. Not because the plot demanded it, but because that's who he is. He's not Clark, he's Superman. It's not until later that he actually crafts the persona of Clark Kent into what we all know and love. The point of the film was to show his journey from outcast to hero. Things are more clear to him now then they ever were before so now he's able to be Clark Kent because he knows who he really is at his core; Kal-El.

I thought it was a good way to showcase the characters journey from lost alien to adopted son. I understand only feeling sorry for him before he dons the cape, but I feel like that was pretty intentional. If there's anything we don't like about Clark in future installments then it's all on him at that point. This particular telling of the journey, however made a lot of sense to me, and for the most part I thought was very well told.

 

[Daybreak_st]

This is pretty much the whole point of him discovering himself I think.

One of the things I noticed was how quickly he found himself once he put on the suit. Not because the plot demanded it, but because that's who he is. He's not Clark, he's Superman. It's not until later that he actually crafts the persona of Clark Kent into what we all know and love. The point of the film was to show his journey from outcast to hero. Things are more clear to him now then they ever were before so now he's able to be Clark Kent because he knows who he really is at his core; Kal-El.

I thought it was a good way to showcase the characters journey from lost alien to adopted son. I understand only feeling sorry for him before he dons the cape, but I feel like that was pretty intentional. If there's anything we don't like about Clark in future installments then it's all on him at that point. This particular telling of the journey, however made a lot of sense to me, and for the most part I thought was very well told.

You make a good point. Maybe if I see it again (more like when) I'll better appreciate the approach they took. It just felt odd to me. Throughout the film I like Jor'el better as the protagonist than Clark and that bothered me. I kept thinking why am I more interested in Jor'el at this point, he's just an AI but his character just resonated with me much more than Clark's did.

 

[Rock Sexton]

You make a good point. Maybe if I see it again (more like when) I'll better appreciate the approach they took. It just felt odd to me. Throughout the film I like Jor'el better as the protagonist than Clark and that bothered me. I kept thinking why am I more interested in Jor'el at this point, he's just an AI but his character just resonated with me much more than Clark's did.

I was the same man. Crowe was my favorite thing about the entire film. Everyone else got dragged down by poor writing.

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

You make a good point. Maybe if I see it again (more like when) I'll better appreciate the approach they took. It just felt odd to me. Throughout the film I like Jor'el better as the protagonist than Clark and that bothered me. I kept thinking why am I more interested in Jor'el at this point, he's just an AI but his character just resonated with me much more than Clark's did.

Jor-El definitely stole the show in some parts, no arguments there. In a way though I'm glad he did because overall I think he's always been glossed over as a character. I think people finally should understand why he's actually so important to Clark and the Superman mythos as a whole. Crowe is also a pretty seasoned actor when compared to Cavill, but because his portrayal really showed how earnest Jor-El can be I'm willing to overlook it. I don't think it means Cavill's performance was cheapened in any way, but you can definitely tell a difference, albeit a good one!

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Agreed that Crowe was very good. He really elevated the scenes he was in.

 

[KalMart]

Agreed that Crowe was very good. He really elevated the scenes he was in.

Wish there was more on Krypton...felt really rushed through. Like...KalEl's birth to the planet blowing up in real time, almost.

 

[Lighthouse]

Wish there was more on Krypton...felt really rushed through. Like...KalEl's birth to the planet blowing up in real time, almost.

I'm actually in the opposite camp on this one. I think Krypton is the least interesting part of the Superman story. I'd prefer more fleshing out of Smallville scenes, and just use a flashback scene when Clark finds the scout ship and meets holodad.

 

[bapi]

So it's a solid movie but reminds me X-Men: The Last Stand or Terminator: Salvation. It's big, action-packed but empty and dumb too. Plus I'd appreciate some humor and romance too, to be honest.

6.5/10

P.S.: I totally hate those zooms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Guard]

Man of Steel TRIED to be the Batman Begins for Superman but failed. Where Batman begins made you understand the psychology of Bruce Wayne MoS just makes you feel sorry for Clark.

At no time do we actually get much personality. He just comes across as a quite guy who fades in the shadows.

MAN OF STEEL delved into the psychology of Clark as well. The guy who fades into the shadows...that IS part of his personality, that of a loner, an alienated person, and someone hiding. He had to go from that, to the Superman we know.

Begins also shows us the tradegdy of his parents death, by emphasizing in a just a few scenes what a loving dad Bruce had.

Whereas MAN OF STEEL shows us the tragedy of Jonathan Kent's death, by emphasizing in just a few scenes what a loving father he was.

You get the distinct impression that if they had lived Bruce would've had a happy life. So their death is so much more tragic. I don't feel that way about Johnathan Kent. He's frankly not very likable as a father. The only two scenes with any sense of warmth are when he says "you are my son" and then the final scene when clark is a kid in the cape. Everything else is cold.

...no.

Just no.

He is serious. Not "cold".

 

[KalMart]

I liked Costner as Jon Kent, I just wanted more. It's obviously a different kind of Pa Kent from before, but I actually like the idea of a more 'stoic' blue-collar dad, but not coldly. I actually thought the part where he cries a little was too much. But when the teen Clark says "you're not my real parents/father", I liked that instead of showing that he was hurt (like maybe uncle Ben in Spiderman), he put it up as a challenge. But just like I feel in real life it might take a little more time to understand and appreciate a personality like that, I would have liked more in the film. Coster is perfect for something like that with his naturally drier delivery, but I felt he was a bit short-changed. But obviously, there was probably an emphasis in the filmmaking to move through it rather quickly.

 

[X Knight]

they can always have more flashbacks in the sequel.

 

[Doc Samson]

This is pretty much the whole point of him discovering himself I think.

One of the things I noticed was how quickly he found himself once he put on the suit. Not because the plot demanded it, but because that's who he is. He's not Clark, he's Superman. It's not until later that he actually crafts the persona of Clark Kent into what we all know and love. The point of the film was to show his journey from outcast to hero. Things are more clear to him now then they ever were before so now he's able to be Clark Kent because he knows who he really is at his core; Kal-El.

I thought it was a good way to showcase the characters journey from lost alien to adopted son. I understand only feeling sorry for him before he dons the cape, but I feel like that was pretty intentional. If there's anything we don't like about Clark in future installments then it's all on him at that point. This particular telling of the journey, however made a lot of sense to me, and for the most part I thought was very well told.

Bingo! And long before Kill Bill, that was always an underlying theme. Kal is searching for who he needs to be for the people of Earth, not searching for a persona. His is more of a spiritual journey as opposed to Bruce Wayne which is more of a psychological one. Half of Smallville knows he's different because he's always helped people, it's in his nature.

But Johnathan wanted him to suppress that not only because Earth wasn't ready, but because he still didn't know where he came from or why, what his true purpose was for being on Earth. Meeting Jor-El and learning his heritage was all he needed in order to rectify those things. Everything else is, and always was, already there within himself.

 

[Tony Stark]

BTW, anyone annoyed by Diane Lane's horrible accent? My parents grew up outside of Wichita, and I don't know anyone in Kansas who sounds like she did. People from the Midwest don't sound like they're from Tallahassee.

 

[Daybreak_st]

MAN OF STEEL delved into the psychology of Clark as well. The guy who fades into the shadows...that IS part of his personality, that of a loner, an alienated person, and someone hiding. He had to go from that, to the Superman we know.

He's a loner...ok. Again there's not much else because he's so quiet. He doesn't even have a conversation with anyone he worked with. Even just small snippets of verbal interaction would've added something. We bascially see him picked on as a kid, bullied, then as a adult trying to help and again bullied. He seems to have some friendship with the waitress but there's barely any exchange of dialogue between them. Right before his dad dies he gets upset with him and that scene just reminded me of Spider-man, the whole getting upset with your father figure right before said father figure dies. Yes we see a lot of him but we really don't get to know him. Heck Amazing Spider-man told me more about Peter Parker than this film does about Clark. To the point of yes I feel sorry for him but I don't connect with him. Yes maybe that's just me, maybe you felt everything they wanted you too. But this compared to Begins, I say Begins did a superior job. I not only empathized with Bruce, I liked him, understood him, and respected him. I can't say the same for Clark.

Whereas MAN OF STEEL shows us the tragedy of Jonathan Kent's death, by emphasizing in just a few scenes what a loving father he was.

At what point did he come across as a warm and loving father? Concerned yes. And I'll give you the moments I mentioned when he says "you are my son" beautiful moment and the end, but rest of the time...I don't know. Of all the Johnathan Kents ever written he comes across as the least likable. He gives Clark a lot of advice and seems scarred/concerned for his son but never do I get a glimpse of the warm/loving father that bruce had. And I would expect that more from Clark's parent than Bruce honestly.

He is serious. Not "cold".

Perhaps "cold" was too strong a word. Well, that scene where he implies maybe clark should've let your classmates die, now that was rather cold. But I don't know. Bruce Greenwood's interaction with Kirk in Star Trek is more the sort of "realistic" father I would imagine. Yes he can be tough but I always get a sense of just how much he believes in and cares about this kid. Even in Smallville I wouldn't call that Johnathan father of the year but he still had a warmth about him that felt like loving reassurance for his son. I just didn't perceive that here. Maybe I need to see it again, but whether it was just the performance or the dialogue I just never...felt it. If that makes sense.

 

[LaserBees]

And yet despite all the warnings about "people aren't ready" etc we never actually get to see much response, particularly not in regards to Superman. NO ONE reacts to him other than Lois and the Military.

Not true. The scumbag blogger that Lois leaks her story to was interviewed on a tv news station and was talking about him. We also see bystanders' faces of awe in Metropolis as he battles Zod. And then Jenny looks at him in awe as he's in the crater with Lois, says "he saved us all", and Perry and Steve look awed as well. Pete Ross becomes his friend after Clark saves him, and then he recognizes him when he's fighting Faora in the IHOP. And of course Dr. Hamilton reacts to his presence on a few occasions, even choosing to join his plan to stop the Kryptonians.

And the military reactions are important. From grunts on the ground to leaders in the field to the bigswigs calling the shots at command, they all are in awe of him and respect him by the end of the film.