TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 3

[Lionbush]

Not true. The scumbag blogger that Lois leaks her story to was interviewed on a tv news station and was talking about him. We also see bystanders' faces of awe in Metropolis as he battles Zod. And then Jenny looks at him in awe as he's in the crater with Lois, says "he saved us all", and Perry and Steve look awed as well. Pete Ross becomes his friend after Clark saves him, and then he recognizes him when he's fighting Faora in the IHOP. And of course Dr. Hamilton reacts to his presence on a few occasions, even choosing to join his plan to stop the Kryptonians.

And the military reactions are important. From grunts on the ground to leaders in the field to the bigswigs calling the shots at command, they all are in awe of him and respect him by the end of the film.

I did get the feeling of trepidation when they were all pointing their rifles at him in Smallville. It was like,' Uh...what are we supposed to do'. A bit of token gun pointing, when in reality they looked like they were bricking it.

 

[J.Howlett]

Not true. The scumbag blogger that Lois leaks her story to was interviewed on a tv news station and was talking about him. We also see bystanders' faces of awe in Metropolis as he battles Zod. And then Jenny looks at him in awe as he's in the crater with Lois, says "he saved us all", and Perry and Steve look awed as well. Pete Ross becomes his friend after Clark saves him, and then he recognizes him when he's fighting Faora in the IHOP. And of course Dr. Hamilton reacts to his presence on a few occasions, even choosing to join his plan to stop the Kryptonians.

And the military reactions are important. From grunts on the ground to leaders in the field to the bigswigs calling the shots at command, they all are in awe of him and respect him by the end of the film.

This. All day long.

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

Bingo! And long before Kill Bill, that was always an underlying theme. Kal is searching for who he needs to be for the people of Earth, not searching for a persona. His is more of a spiritual journey as opposed to Bruce Wayne which is more of a psychological one. Half of Smallville knows he's different because he's always helped people, it's in his nature.

But Johnathan wanted him to suppress that not only because Earth wasn't ready, but because he still didn't know where he came from or why, what his true purpose was for being on Earth. Meeting Jor-El and learning his heritage was all he needed in order to rectify those things. Everything else is, and always was, already there within himself.

I thought the film executed that vision particularly well. One of the biggest things people anywhere struggle with is a sense of identity, and it was nice to see that mirrored throughout Clark's life. Then seeing him actually discover it is pretty triumphant.

Not true. The scumbag blogger that Lois leaks her story to was interviewed on a tv news station and was talking about him. We also see bystanders' faces of awe in Metropolis as he battles Zod. And then Jenny looks at him in awe as he's in the crater with Lois, says "he saved us all", and Perry and Steve look awed as well. Pete Ross becomes his friend after Clark saves him, and then he recognizes him when he's fighting Faora in the IHOP. And of course Dr. Hamilton reacts to his presence on a few occasions, even choosing to join his plan to stop the Kryptonians.

And the military reactions are important. From grunts on the ground to leaders in the field to the bigswigs calling the shots at command, they all are in awe of him and respect him by the end of the film.

Regardless of all this, I still feel like we should have seen a reaction to Superman from a child's perspective. It's probably the simplest, most effective tool you can use in a superhero movie to help an audience identify with a larger-than-life character. I wouldn't even call it cliche, just helpful.

EDIT: However, I do appreciate the way they handled the population's reaction to Superman much more than they did in the Avengers. That fake newsreel makes me cringe every time. You don't see a resounding response to his presence, but it's still there and a little more realistic.

 

[The Guard]

He's a loner...ok. Again there's not much else because he's so quiet. He doesn't even have a conversation with anyone he worked with. Even just small snippets of verbal interaction would've added something. We bascially see him picked on as a kid, bullied, then as a adult trying to help and again bullied. He seems to have some friendship with the waitress but there's barely any exchange of dialogue between them.

No, he doesn't speak to many people, but that still informs his character, and fleshes out the idea that he is a bit of a loner, and feels somewhat alienated. Which is what the filmmakers wanted to convey.

At what point did he come across as a warm and loving father?

He didn't, because that wasn't the focal point of the film. The point of the film was whether he came across as responsible father, given that he was raising a demigod.

Bruce's dad had to set a broken ankle.

Clark's dad had to tell him how to go about dealing with fantastic powers and being the first documented alien to show up on Earth.

The contexts are completely different. But Jonathan was comforting to Clark, even when he wasn't necessarily pleasant with him.

Concerned yes. And I'll give you the moments I mentioned when he says "you are my son" beautiful moment and the end, but rest of the time...I don't know. Of all the Johnathan Kents ever written he comes across as the least likable. He gives Clark a lot of advice and seems scarred/concerned for his son but never do I get a glimpse of the warm/loving father that bruce had. And I would expect that more from Clark's parent than Bruce honestly.

He isn't the father Bruce had. He's Jonathan Kent. A relatively simple farmer who gets thrust into an incredible situation.

Perhaps "cold" was too strong a word. Well, that scene where he implies maybe clark should've let your classmates die, now that was rather cold.

No it wasn't. Look how much he struggles to tell that to his son. Look at the emotion coming from Jonathan as he tries to find the words.

 

[Doc Samson]

He's a loner...ok. Again there's not much else because he's so quiet. He doesn't even have a conversation with anyone he worked with. Even just small snippets of verbal interaction would've added something. We bascially see him picked on as a kid, bullied, then as a adult trying to help and again bullied. He seems to have some friendship with the waitress but there's barely any exchange of dialogue between them. Right before his dad dies he gets upset with him and that scene just reminded me of Spider-man, the whole getting upset with your father figure right before said father figure dies. Yes we see a lot of him but we really don't get to know him.

But isn't this an inherent issue that plenty of writers have wrestled with in trying to bring Superman into relevancy in modern times. That's really all there is to know about Clark, that he's a good, wholesome individual that stands for truth, justice & the American way. That's it! There's no deep psychological underpinnings to him or his story, the only thing close to it is his origin, which I explained earlier, is more of spiritual awakening than a psychological journey like that of Bruce Wayne. He's basically Superman since the time he's old enough to realize right and wrong and help people, his personality is very basic and vanilla as it should be.

At what point did he come across as a warm and loving father? Concerned yes. And I'll give you the moments I mentioned when he says "you are my son" beautiful moment and the end, but rest of the time...I don't know. Of all the Johnathan Kents ever written he comes across as the least likable. He gives Clark a lot of advice and seems scarred/concerned for his son but never do I get a glimpse of the warm/loving father that bruce had. And I would expect that more from Clark's parent than Bruce honestly.

Well for me, at the very least, the part where he allows himself to die in order to keep Clark a secret was pretty warm & loving. Seriously though, nothing about him came off as cold or detached, he loves his "son" so much that he's trying to keep him from being targeted or taken away because of his abilities. At least Clark had interaction with both his parents, Bruce in BB barely had any conversations or involvement with his mom that we're at least privy to. So no, Johnathan doesn't just instill Clark with wholesome values, instead he's also gives it to him straight, which to me, was refreshing.

Clark asks what's wrong with him, he shows him the ship and tells him he's an alien. Clark tells him he's not his father, and he agrees with him, while still explaining how he's done the best he could. He sees Clark getting bullied and doesn't run over to help him, he commends him for not striking back and implores him to be sure of the man he wants to be, because that man will change the world good or bad. If this isn't being loving enough, I don't know what is or what more was needed for an origin told in countless forms of media and entertainment.

 

[Lionbush]

One of the other things I liked was how Pete Ross had kept the secret all his life. How he went from bullying him on a bus, to becoming a friend to him. When Lois asked him about the accident, there was a reluctance to speak to her. Amongst everyone he helped there was a respect. That was very well incorporated.

 

[Lionbush]

Clark asks what's wrong with him, he shows him the ship and tells him he's an alien. Clark tells him he's not his father, and he agrees with him, while still explaining how he's done the best he could. He sees Clark getting bullied and doesn't run over to help him, he commends him for not striking back and implores him to be sure of the man he wants to be, because that man will change the world good or bad. If this isn't being loving enough, I don't know what is or what more was needed for an origin told in countless forms of media and entertainment.

This part is well said.

I don't know what else he could have done. It's hard enough being a parent (I know!), but being a parent to someone with Clarks ability? He did the best he could, guiding him from the dangers of revealing himself too early. He loved him, even died to protect him. The JK/CK thread was one of the strongest lines in the film for me.

 

[Tzigone]

BTW, anyone annoyed by Diane Lane's horrible accent? My parents grew up outside of Wichita, and I don't know anyone in Kansas who sounds like she did. People from the Midwest don't sound like they're from Tallahassee.

Maybe she is from Tallahassee and just married a guy from Kansas? Actually, I didn't notice her accent, but I'm not familiar with a Kansas accent. Can't be too sympathetic to you, though: I'm from Alabama, and there is no way you have had to hear as many bad tv/movie accents for Kansas as I have for Alabama.

 

[Tony Stark]

Maybe she is from Tallahassee and just married a guy from Kansas? Actually, I didn't notice her accent, but I'm not familiar with a Kansas accent. Can't be too sympathetic to you, though: I'm from Alabama, and there is no way you have had to hear as many bad tv/movie accents for Kansas as I have for Alabama.

I agree with you there. It's funny how Hollywood thinks people talk from other parts of the country they've never been to.

 

[LostSon88]

Not true. The scumbag blogger that Lois leaks her story to was interviewed on a tv news station and was talking about him. We also see bystanders' faces of awe in Metropolis as he battles Zod. And then Jenny looks at him in awe as he's in the crater with Lois, says "he saved us all", and Perry and Steve look awed as well. Pete Ross becomes his friend after Clark saves him, and then he recognizes him when he's fighting Faora in the IHOP. And of course Dr. Hamilton reacts to his presence on a few occasions, even choosing to join his plan to stop the Kryptonians.

And the military reactions are important. From grunts on the ground to leaders in the field to the bigswigs calling the shots at command, they all are in awe of him and respect him by the end of the film.

I got a kick out of Hamilton calling Superman "sir" during the interrogation. Don't know why.

But I got a sense throughout the whole film that though they feared him, the military did on some level respect him.

Minus the General of course.

 

[jsi23]

'MAN OF STEEL': THE SUPER MOVIE
By James Franco

Last week I was asked to attend the London premiere of Man of Steel, so after working on my forthcoming little thriller at Pinewood studios, I went over to Leicester Square to see the latest filmic take on the superhero.

Many things went through my head, both subjective and objective, or rather as a person on the inside of the film business and as an indiscriminate viewer of the film. I too have been in comic-book films—the Spider-Man trilogy directed by Sam Raimi. I mention the director because this distinction is now necessary in the wake of the new Spider-Man series that arose even before there was time to bury the corpse of the old one and enshroud it in the haze of nostalgia. Indeed there are still young children who approach me as fans of the original (boy, it seems weird to say that) series. I don’t have a huge emotional attachment to the Spider-Man franchise as a subject, my biggest sentimental ties are to the people I worked with on those films: Sam, Toby, Kirsten, the late and great Laura Ziskin, and the hundreds of others who worked with us. I don’t really feel much distress over its being remade, for many reasons, but what is interesting to me is that it has been remade so quickly—and the reasons why.

The answer is, of course, money. We are in the film business, and the studios are owned by large corporations who want to make money. And in this art form, where so much is spent and so much profit can be made, one criterion for success is inevitably the financial. And when movies become so big that they can make $200 million in one weekend like The Avengers did, everyone from studios to filmmakers are going to want to get in on making comic-book movies. And when great directors like Sam Raimi and Christopher Nolan show that equally great characters can live within special-effects-laden films, then the comic-book genre becomes legitimized and great actors will follow. But the biggest reason, we cannot forget, is money. For all involved, it’s about being able to work with the biggest toys and the best people, because the product can support paying for them. And that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. If you want to make a movie about a man who can fly and tear spaceships in half with his hands, then you need lots of money to make it look good. Otherwise you might as well keep the story in the comic books, where it costs much less to make superhuman feats look cool.

I was also at Leicester Square earlier this year for the premiere of my film Oz, when the red carpet was a yellow brick road, but the night I saw the new Superman, I arrived incognito: 1) because it wasn’t my film, and 2) because I don’t think Henry Cavill would have wanted to see me there. Not that we’re enemies. Years ago we worked on a film together called Tristan and Isolde. I played Tristan and he played my backstabbing sidekick. My hunch is that he didn’t like me very much. I don’t know this for certain, but I know that I wouldn’t have liked myself back then because I was a difficult young actor who took himself too seriously.

What Henry took seriously back then was Superman. He wanted to be Superman more than anything in the world. Personally, I’m not sure why. I missed the whole Superman-film phenomenon. I was more a fan of director Richard Donner’s Goonies and Lethal Weapon. I can understand the appeal the original Superman comics had for the WWII generation and its need for a hero to rid the world of evil, but in my days as a young man, this appeal was long outstripped by the cheesiness of the character’s suit and his *****ey invincibility. But Henry was dying to do the Bryan Singer version of Superman that was being put together as we were shooting Tristan in Ireland and the Czech Republic in 2005. Henry was in the running but, in the end, he was passed over for Brandon Routh.

The night of the premiere I saw Henry from afar on the red carpet and knew this was the moment his whole life had been building toward. His dream had come true, and I was happy for him. It was the role he would have killed to do, with the right director (Zack Snyder: 300, Watchmen) and the right producer (Chris Nolan: The Dark Knight)—people who would keep the story and the characters focused, grounded by Chris’s regular team of David S. Goyer and Emma Thomas. If anything this was a project that must have made the people who made it very happy.

So, what did we watch? A great film. But what makes me say this? Is it the nerd revolution that has brought our public taste to the point where comic-book characters and video games are now cool? Are these huge comic-book films the way for the world at large to embrace the subjects of these forms that are traditionally relegated to the nerd niche? Yes, in a way. But in another way, we are just wowed by the money that brings them to fruition. Kids like comic-book-style heroes, teens like flashy action and sex, and therefore these films make money. Adults—the third audience—respect money. So these films are made. Again and again. And if Brandon Routh doesn’t work as Superman, or if Sam Raimi can’t agree on the villain for a fourth Spider-Man, they will just make new versions without them. Man of Steel is great because it delivers everything it should. It made Superman cool again. It delivered great action and interesting characters with a plot that was grounded enough to make us care a little.

In addition, to be fair, movies are fighting for their lives. With all the great television that is increasingly monopolizing good drama, and the video games that allow people to actively engage rather than sit back as passive viewers, movies need to offer something that these other forms can’t: big effects, 3D, and money, money, money.

But, in the end, why did I really walk away liking it? It wasn’t because of the film’s message. Maybe I sound naïve going to a film like this for a message, but images and themes are being thrown at me in 3D, so I want to know what I’m swallowing. One of the main reasons I liked it was because in this film, Superman’s S symbol stands for “hope” on the planet Krypton. Viewers discover that Superman is the symbol of hope for his dead race and simultaneously the symbol of hope for the human race. He hides his powers for the first 30 years of his life on Earth because his adopted father (Kevin Costner) believes that humans won’t be ready for him. In this way Superman is presented as a kind of Christ figure, given to Earth to save humanity. (A parallel that has been made many times before, I’m sure. Jesus Christ Superstar, anyone?) But sadly this Christ doesn’t teach any fishermen how to fish. He just does all the heavy lifting himself. If we are supposed to have hope in anything, it’s hope that Superman keeps fighting for good. If he doesn’t, we have no way of stopping him.

I guess that sounds a bit like the movie itself. We love these movies because they’re so big, and damn, they’re all that we have. They aren’t going away, so we just have to keep hoping that they are, at the very least, well made.

http://www.vice.com/read/man-of-steel-the-super-movie

Great review but he shouldn't have mentioned the Spider-man stuff since he was in the franchise and I think it was a little disrespectful.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I agree with him about TASM, I'd like to slam it with him.

 

[kalhawj]

In a blank of an eye Henry's career and stardom just flow by James Franco and left him in the dust. Anyway, I'm glad he enjoy MOS. I find that the folks that don't like MOS are those who nitpick every flaw in a movie or cannot let go of the Donnar superman. If these folks just let go of these things they will sure all enjoy MOS like all of its. It's a master piece in visual and action sequence. A fun and emotional movie I will never get tire of watching.

 

[Juicy J]

Maybe she is from Tallahassee and just married a guy from Kansas? Actually, I didn't notice her accent, but I'm not familiar with a Kansas accent. Can't be too sympathetic to you, though: I'm from Alabama, and there is no way you have had to hear as many bad tv/movie accents for Kansas as I have for Alabama.

As someone else who's from Alabama: yes. It's the worst.

 

[KalMart]

Frankly, I don't think Cavill would have given two ****s if he had seen the guy from Pineapple Express at the premiere of the Superman movie that he starred in.....nor would anyone else, for that matter.

 

[sf2]

I agree with him about TASM, I'd like to slam it with him.

why? because he said the truth about TASM?

 

[KalMart]

As someone else who's from Alabama: yes. It's the worst.

Y'mean you all don't talk like Forest Gump?

 

[HighFivingMF]

In a blank of an eye Henry's career and stardom just flow by James Franco and left him in the dust.

Franco has an Oscar nomination, 3 Golden Globe nominations, a co-starring role in a gigantic billion-dollar trilogy, several successful comedies, and lead roles in two major blockbusters under his belt. I don't think Henry's quite there yet.

 

[LostSon88]

Lol. Yeah let's calm down on bashing Franco...

 

[KalMart]

He is a bit of a pain to work with though, right?

 

[LostSon88]

I believe so. They say he's quite pretentious...

 

[Daybreak_st]

He isn't the father Bruce had. He's Jonathan Kent. A relatively simple farmer who gets thrust into an incredible situation.

Jonathan has been done before and much better. I'd argue that this is the least likeaable version of tthe character broughht to life. Especially when you conttrast him with the Jor'el as portrayed in this film. While one is wise and noble the the other is parnoid to the point of implying the death of a bbus load of kids is worth keeping Clark's secrect. Thatt's not selflessness but selfishness. And yes it is ccold i dont care how much hhe struggles to tell his son that. It is heartless. And the mvoie shows that essentially Jonathan is wrong. People in smallville who knew clark'ls secret didnt turn on him. The y safeguarded it.

 

[blksuperman2]

Jonathan has been done before and much better. I'd argue that this is the least likeaable version of tthe character broughht to life. Especially when you conttrast him with the Jor'el as portrayed in this film. While one is wise and noble the the other is parnoid to the point of implying the death of a bbus load of kids is worth keeping Clark's secrect. Thatt's not selflessness but selfishness. And yes it is ccold i dont care how much hhe struggles to tell his son that. It is heartless. And the mvoie shows that essentially Jonathan is wrong. People in smallville who knew clark'ls secret didnt turn on him. The y safeguarded it.

I felt Pa Kent was the weak link in the film too. Pretty much all we've learned is that everything he tried to instile in Clark was just wrong. Clark let him die for nothing because every action(that we've see on-screen) contradicted Pa Kent's notion. Clark continues to go out of his way to save innocent people and risks people discovering his secret because he figured out that Human life far outweighs his own fears of being discovered.

lol, really the scenes w/ Pa Kent shows that Clark's an honorable man despite his father's upbringing and not because of it.

 

[Daybreak_st]

I felt Pa Kent was the weak link in the film too. Pretty much all we've learned is that everything he tried to instile in Clark was just wrong. Clark let him die for nothing because every action(that we've see on-screen) contradicted Pa Kent's notion. Clark continues to go out of his way to save innocent people and risks people discovering his secret because he figured out that Human life far outweighs his own fears of being discovered.

lol, really the scenes w/ Pa Kent shows that Clark's an honorable man despite his father's upbringing and not becatuse of it.

Thank you! I knew I wasn't imgining all of this as some posters seem to think.

 

[Knightstalker]

Still a week to go before we get this film in Australia. Gonna be a long week