To Believe or Not To Believe? (SHOW RESPECT, OR RISK A BAN) - Part 2

[Apollo]

I know it's a few people here that identify as being a Christian but I have a few questions, and honestly it might get personal so you defintely don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable doing so. But for those that do consider themselves Christians, how did you become one? Did you have an encounter with Christ for yourself? Did you just grow up in a Christian home or did you become a Christian on your own? I mentioned that I experienced and heard about things that I feel are acts of God. Not I think there may have been some scientific logic behind what I experienced and heard about that falls under the supernatural, but I honestly believe that God orchestrate's those things and it's not science alone. Have any of you experienced anything like that? How to you feel on that subject? Lastly, have you ever had any hostile encounters with people once they found out your religious beliefs?

I grew up secular/liberal household. Religion or going to church wasn't all that important for my house growing up. My two best friends didn't have to go to church either though they did sometimes. 2 of my other best friends were Jewish. My other best friend was Hindu. All we cared about was cartoons, sports, girls and video games. I never asked my parents what they believed and they never asked me. They never even mentioned God or Jesus. Unless when they got mad, they'd curse their names or during thanksgiving when they said the prayers only because the grandparents were there. Eventually they started to go to church much later on, mostly for social reasons and because my sisters always asked them to go with her. So eventually I found Christ on my own due to my own interest. Then I did my own research and asked my own questions. The library, my friends and the internet helped a lot. As for signs that I have experienced. Well I won't dive into that.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Except that we do know how they're taking in their scriptures. We have numerous accounts of people throughout history claiming to do despicable acts in the name of their God and sourcing their holy texts as evidence in the process, claiming they're doing God's will.

history in relation to religion can get hazy. the crusades, for instance. as far as islam goes, what I do know is that the biggest division in the religion occurred right after the death of the prophet, because the people could not decide on who the new leader was supposed to be. and the differing ideas eventually turned into sunni vs. shia. however, i'm not inherently disagreeing with you. you have a point, and this definitely means something. but honestly, i think may have something to do with people and a hunger for power.

Sure, we can argue the extent to which religion is a factor. It's essentially on a spectrum. In some cases, you can draw a straight line from a particular action to a religion (witch trials, anti-contraceptives, genital mutilation, suicide bombing). In other cases, religion is just one of many factors (Nazi Germany) and in other cases it plays no factor. So yes, it's not the end-all-be-all of evil, but the reality of people doing harm to others solely based on their religious beliefs is not up for debate.

Yeah, I don't think anybody was disputing that. To me though, people using the scriptures to... self-authorize their perverse intentions is what's wrong.

You keep missing the point. The interpretation angle didn't appear till later. These were all initially taken as literal truths until secular ideas - as in ideas that contradict the texts - started intruding. The extremists' ideas don't contradict their texts. Doesn't make their beliefs rational, but that's because the doctrines themselves are not rational in the first place.

I'm not missing the point, I just don't think it is completely accurate to say that interpretations that contradict the texts came way after their revelations. if the vast majority of people who are part of the organized religion are rational and more or less coexisting with everyone else different from them, I don't know if it is fair to call the texts irrational. It's just easy to call it irrational when the irrational and brainwashed people take it upon themselves to use it for their own personal agendas, as we've already talked about.

 

[moviedoors]

The day religion departs us is the day music, art, theater and dance depart us as well.

That is staggeringly untrue.

 

[Apollo]

Well, I grew up in a Christian home. I guess I truly became Born Again in my early teens. Like most kids do around that age,I pretty much wanted to know why my family believed as we did and set out to prove it was trustworthy.I had started reading the Bible and had thousands of questions,so I did lots of research into theology/archaeology/history. And this was in the 90's before the internet-well at least before my family had it. So I did it the old fashioned way by reading books and so forth.

It's funny,because I feared researching my beliefs would cause me to have doubts,but the opposite happened and I began to feel my faith grow. Christianity isn't a blind faith by any means. There are well reasoned answers for every question. The trouble is people don't want to take the time to understand the context of the question.It's much simpler to rattle off things like "Well, the Bible says it's a sin to get tattoos!" or "Women had to marry their rapists in the Bible!" without taking the time to understand what was actually being said for that time and historical context.

Most people will only give the Bible a look at face value. They never learn to actually read the Bible for all it's worth. Now,I'm not saying I have all the answers (only One does) but there IS a valid answer to every question. "Whoever has ears, let them hear.” Matt 13:9

I did a lot of my own research into science as well. I asked thousands of questions as well. I actually used to be into the anti-church scene, I was never anti-God, just anti-establishment of religion. I used to be all into Science vs Religion debate since I was really fascinated with dinosaurs, evolution and astronomy. I dispised conservative Christians so much. Fox news was my number one enemy but I thought liberals were too weak so I hated them as well. I was a big fan of Neil degrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan way before social media. I would say my fascination with science helped shape my belief in God.

Also I love that quote.

 

[moviedoors]

Christianity isn't a blind faith by any means. There are well reasoned answers for every question.

Well?

 

[Apollo]

Do any theists/Christians in here first have a fascination with astronomy, dinosaurs and evolution prior to their deep and unshakable belief in God?

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Well?

Well reasoned if you believe the Bible as fact and word of God, and if you choose which passages are to be interpreted as literal and which ones are not.

 

[Apollo]

this is slightly off topic (and there's a more appropriate thread for this) but there have been artists and musicians who say they have more creative vision and ideas when under the influence of marijuana. i know a guy who plays the guitar and i got him to smoke weed once, and he picked up a guitar and was just playing around with tunes and then said "this is the most music I've ever made in my entire life."

Well there are some religions like the Rastafarian movement where cannabis is an important symbol and using it is an important way of life. The drug culture is here to stay. There is no use fighting it. Just like there is no use fighting religion or music, art, theater, philosophy and literature. They are all different ways to express ones self. People will always be attracted to them. Drug culture will never leave us. The day the drug culture leaves us is the day the moon leaves us. And the day that religion leaves us is the day the sun leaves us.

and also as for creativity. I would say both drugs(used responsibly) and religions have shaped tremendously in increasing the creative minds of many musicians, poets, writers, singers and artists.

 

[Tempest]

Do any theists/Christians in here first have a fascination with astronomy, dinosaurs and evolution prior to their deep and unshakable belief in God?

I've always had faith, but I have always had in intense love of biological sciences, and astronomy is very interesting for me.

But I love theology. I love reading about other religions, their beliefs, their mythologies. The world is too interesting and beautiful a place to be too set into one ideal.

Do I believe in God? Yes. I chose to follow Catholicism because I find it a beautiful religion, but in many ways I am not a "good" Catholic, because I believe that God is more than just a collection of writings that are considered holy. He is all those things, and none of them, and so much more. It's beyond our understanding, and I'm ok with that.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Do any theists/Christians in here first have a fascination with astronomy, dinosaurs and evolution prior to their deep and unshakable belief in God?

I love all things science and tech related. I have no idea why some Christians can't accept evolution along with God like I do. I don't see why God would give us the ability to figure all this stuff out just to deny it. Same way I don't believe God would make people Gay just to damn them to hell, makes no sense

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Well there are some religions like the Rastafarian movement where cannabis is an important symbol and using it is an important way of life. The drug culture is here to stay. There is no use fighting it. Just like there is no use fighting religion or music, art, theater, philosophy and literature. They are all different ways to express ones self. People will always be attracted to them. Drug culture will never leave us. The day the drug culture leaves us is the day the moon leaves us. And the day that religion leaves us is the day the sun leaves us.

and also as for creativity. I would say both drugs(used responsibly) and religions have shaped tremendously in increasing the creative minds of many musicians, poets, writers, singers and artists.

what's ironic about this is that marijuana is not even fully legal in jamaica. they've got laws prohibiting in certain conditions.

ah, I could talk more about drug stuff, but I don't wanna derail the thread.

 

[Reek]

Well people would argue that God didn't make people gay. Which then raises the question 'when did you decide to be or not to be gay?' which no one I know knows how to answer. Its not like someone just wakes up one day and decides 'hey I think I will be gay now.' so they were obviously born that way.

I'm straight and in no way religious. at all.

I have always found it funny that Scientologist are widely considered as crazy people just because they blindly follow the word of someone else... but thats been perfectly ok with all other religions for centuries. How are any of their beliefs any less believable than walking on water or being reincarnated as a giraffe?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Scientologist are considered crazy because the beat their members that don't blindly follow, endlessly harass anyone that leaves their "church" and speaks out against them, and blackmailed the IRS to get tax exempt status among many other things. If they just blindly followed their own dumbass religion and left people the hell alone they wouldn't have the rep they do

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Also I can't think of any other religion that makes family members disown their own family if they leave

 

[Reek]

damning gay people to hell for being different isn't crazy at all.

 

[Reek]

Don't many christian families disown their gay children?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

The church doesn't order them to do it

 

[Reek]

but their god damns them to hell.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Here I will quote what Jesus said about homosexuality

...

Jesus was about love for all and taking care of the sick and poor. The Jesus and God I know don't damn anyone to hell for being gay and there are several churches that have and accept gay members

 

[Snow Queen]

I'm not exactly a defender of Christianity, but when it comes to modern day practices, there's no comparison between it and Scientology. At least as far as we know, Christianity today doesn't (as an organization, not individuals) wiretap people, buy homes to surveillance them, harass them at their homes, stalk the leader's own dying grandfather, lock them in a disgusting van for days and beat them, torture members, etc... Not talking about beliefs here, but just in terms of how they operate. And as anyone who knows me well can attest to, I criticize Christianity a lot and really dislike it as an organization and a huge chunk of the beliefs in what they follow (not individuals here, again I mean this is an organization, I have no issues with anyone choosing to believe in Jesus but I do have problems with how the church as an organization operates) and how people often use those beliefs but there is no contest between which of them in the modern day is worse.

 

[Tempest]

but their god damns them to hell.

Technically, no. Being homosexual is not the sin. Engaging in the physical act is considered sinful. Procreation was really important back in the day. Your family and tribes would need people to work, to fight, and so forth, so they would have put pressure on people to "do their duty". Also, sexual diseases were probably rampant back then, with no cures. Abstaining from sex was the most practical solution.

And remember, true hell isn't really a fiery pit of doom; it is the eternal severing of your connection to God. And truly, no one knows for certain what goes on in a person's soul, or heart. That moment before death, if a 'sinner' who is a so-called sexual deviant cries out for mercy with a true heart, it is granted. Or so the belief is of the Catholic church.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

I do not prescribe to the notion that child molesters and murders would ever be forgiven by God

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

And that is in the Old Testament which has nothing to do with Jesus

 

[Reek]

I know many Christians that have straight up said gay people will burn in hell. They even call Obama the Anti-christ. That is bat **** crazy to me.

Listing all of the bad things Scientology has done is cool and all... but lets not start listing all the terrible things various religions have done.

My point is no one should call someone crazy because of different beliefs.

I'm not exactly a defender of Christianity, but when it comes to modern day practices, there's no comparison between it and Scientology. At least as far as we know, Christianity today doesn't (as an organization, not individuals) wiretap people, buy homes to surveillance them, harass them at their homes, stalk the leader's own dying grandfather, lock them in a disgusting van for days and beat them, torture members, etc... Not talking about beliefs here, but just in terms of how they operate. And as anyone who knows me well can attest to, I criticize Christianity a lot and really dislike it as an organization and a huge chunk of the beliefs in what they follow (not individuals here, again I mean this is an organization, I have no issues with anyone choosing to believe in Jesus but I do have problems with how the church as an organization operates) and how people often use those beliefs but there is no contest between which of them in the modern day is worse.

compare religions in their earlier years to scientology in its earlier years for a fair comparison. Jews tortured and crucified people for blasphemy in a dump... and yes Jesus was crucified in a dump, not some nice hilltop, like many christians say.

I dont want this to look like i am defending scientology in any way shape or form... i think its an insane religion... but its not any more crazy then some others... and the way it carries it self may be worse in some ways, but pretending that the other religions dont have their huge dose of crazy( i mean that in a completely non offensive way which will probably get me in trouble ... just meant 'extremes' really) is comical.

I have a step grandmother who is a Christian... but somehow has had out of wedlock sex resulting in two children, and because I don't go to church, wrote Bible verses in clothing gifts she gave me. That **** is ****ing crazy to me.

Back to what this originally started as... Damning gays to hell... no hell does not have to be some fiery painful place.. even if its just your rejection of god blah blah blah... why would God make you gay just to send you there? if he didn't make you gay... why did he give you the choice to be gay...then send you there? thats some really flawed thinking.