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Discussion in 'Guardians of the Galaxy' started by Thread Manager, Aug 1, 2014.
A perfect summary of the past few pages of this thread.
Yes, I'm well aware of "Fencing 101." That's why I -- and you -- are proving that Tivan wasn't the one who "commissioned" space pirates to go find booty.
Also from "Fencing 101": fences don't tell thieves what to steal. They just buy the illegal stuff that the thief can't sell on an open market. They're money launderers, except they deal in merchandise instead of just cash money.
*What makes sense: space pirates find booty. Space pirates try to sell booty to their regular fence for 20,000 credits. Fence plans to re-sell booty to another buyer --- say, one Taneleer Tivan --- at a profit later, but gets cold feet when he finds out some really bad dudes *also* want said booty.
Meanwhile, another interested party gets hold of the booty and plans to sell it *directly* to Tivan for a ****load more money, since she has a better idea of what that booty is really worth to him.
*What *doesn't* make sense: Tivan hires space pirates to go find an Infinity Stone for him (since, you know, space pirates are such a trustworthy lot, and wouldn't dare backstab him or screw him out of the deal if they actually *found* said Infinity Stone), and offers them 20,000 credits (or less, if you want to consider The Broker's markup) for an item that is really worth 4 billion credits. When space pirates acquire but then lose the property to another interested party, Tivan is prepared to offer full price --- 4 billion credits --- to the new property owner.
It's as you say: simple Fencing 101. Black market economics. How hard is that for you to figure out that there's no reason for Tivan to screw Quill out of 3,999,980,000 credits? Tivan is a slaver, and an evil sonofa*****, but he's also a businessman. His business wouldn't last very long if he screwed his clients that badly.
Tivan never hires space pirates to get the ****ing Gem though. Where are you getting this from? Tivan only has a deal in place with The Broker and Gamora. First come, first serve. Simple.
And who are The Broker's agents? Space pirates.
Are you saying that Tivan wants a 4 billion credit object, but offers market value to Gamora but crapola to The Broker? Or are you saying that The Broker *knows* it's worth 4 billion, but only offers 20 grand to Yondu? That makes even LESS sense than anything else so far, because NOW you're saying that The Broker is (a) screwing his own regular client in epic fashion, and (b) is going to get cold feet when he hears the name "Ronan", even though he's sitting on a 4 billion credit deal.
The Broker, yes. The Collector has no connection to them himself.
The Collector informs The Broker he wants the Orb. Only The Collector knows what it truly is.
The Broker says to Yondu and co "Go get this and i'll pay you 20k". Then he'll sell it on to The Collector for 4 billion. Yondu and co won't know he's selling it on for a vast profit, because they don't know The Collector. And i don't think The Broker is the kind of guy who'd have the morals to care about screwing over Yondu and co... as long as they don't find out.
As for getting cold feet because of Ronan's interest? What's the point in having 4 billion credits if you're gonna be dead?
The only real stumbling point is how does Gamora know The Collector wants the Orb? But then, Gamora seems well versed with the underbelly of the universe. She knows where Knowhere is, it's safe to say she knows who The Collector is and what he's all about. In fact, iirc doesn't The Collector greet her as "Lady Gamora"? They seem to know each other.
"What's the point in having 4 billion credits if you're gonna be dead?" The same can be said in reference to Yondu. If he screws Yondu out of close to 4 billion, The Broker's going to spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder anyway.
"How does Gamora know The Collector wants the Orb?" Good question. How does Odin/Loki know The Collector would be willing to take the Aether?
Here's something that hasn't been addressed: in both the comics and the movies, The Collector collects *biological specimens,* not inanimate objects. In other words, he's a glorified slaver. There's no evidence he collects artifacts. It'd be like trying to sell gemstones to a zookeeper.
I *have* answers to those questions, but you'd get pissed off about the whole conspiracy theory stuff again.
Yondu says he slaved to put this deal together.
When Quill walks into The Broker's, The Broker says "Mr. Quill" and then Peter responds "The Orb as commissioned".
The Broker had Yondu and The Ravagers looking for The Orb.
When Yondu goes to ask who wants The Orb the scene cuts to The Collector and then Yondu conveniently shows up to Knowhere just a little bit later.
The Collector uses The Broker, The Broker uses thieves and in this case it was Yondu.
Not really a stumbling point. Gamora probably knew of The Collector. She knew that Thanos is after The Orb which probably meant The Collector wanted it too. When she left for Xandar to steal The Orb she probably made contact with him to sell it.
And yet you still fail to address the central roadblock to that: namely, that there's a 4 billion credit discrepancy between Tivan's (alleged) contract with Gamora and The Broker. Either that's ****** writing and a major plothole, or else Tivan wasn't working with The Broker at all. Which is it?
Why would Gamora automatically know that Tivan wanted the Orb just because Thanos did? Are you suggesting that it's (relatively) common knowledge that Tivan is doing the "one down, five to go" thing with Infinity Stones?
The obvious explanation is still that the Broker hired the Ravagers to get the gem to sell to the Collector...and Gamora cut out the middleman with her deal
It isn't ****** writing or a plothole because the money has little to do with the freaking plot. Why are you so ****ing hung up on not knowing how much The Broker was going to get? We didn't learn it because it's insignificant to the plot.
He. is. THE. ****ING. COLLECTOR. She obviously knew of him and made contact with him and if he was interested in it. Asgardians know about The Collector, yet somehow it is a problem that Thanos' adopted daughter knows of him.
It is really pathetic they you can't accept that you are wrong.
But i'm sure you will continue having your temper tantrum meltdown about really meaningless plot points in a great movie while basically everyone else tells you are wrong.
It's as simple as that.
I don't think Gamora "made a deal" with the Collector, actually. She just knew who the Collector was, that he wanted the Orb, and what kind of a bounty he had offered for it. What, is he going to say "no" if someone walks up to him and offers him what he wants, just because he hadn't specifically contacted them beforehand?
Because Yondu and co don't know what the Orb truly is. They don't know who The Collector is. They don't know anything other than what The Broker chooses to tell them. He chose to tell them the Orb was worth 20k. How would they possibly find out he intends to sell it to The Collector for 4 billion unless he himself tells them?
Because he's The Collector? He's obviously infamous in certain circles. Asgard know of him. Gamora knows of him. Yondu and co obviously don't.
He collects rare artifacts AND beings in the comics. Why does he have a Gem in Thanos Quest? The Gem certainly isn't a being in the comics. It's just a rare artifact and he doesn't really know what the hell it is. But he covets it because it's a rare artifact and he's The Collector.
Besides, these films aren't 100% comic accurate anyway. In the comics Drax isn't an alien who doesn't understand metaphors. In the comics Garmora and Nebula aren't siblings. Thanos tortured Nebula for even suggesting she had any relation to him. In the comics Peter Quill's mom didn't die of cancer. She was assassinated.
Holy ****. This is still going on? This is the Thanos thread. Can this everyone vs Sam argument be taken somewhere else?
The _______________Vs. Sam thread?
I'm not sure who made this, but I feel this Thanos face is absolutely better than both the GoG and Avengers Thanos faces.
Really? That looks like a cartoon troll to me. I simply would not be able to take that seriously. The GOTG design worked extraordinarily well for me.
The process, motivations and procurement behind the gathering of the Infinity Stones is absolutely pivotal to Thanos' ethos. The discussion that 'sam and various others is 100% valid and completely on topic.
If you don't like what's being discussed, just scroll down a little. No one will fault you. If would rather discuss which hue of purple will work best against his 'brow, please go ahead. No one's stopping you.
What? He's arguing about meaningless plot points that have almost nothing to do with Thanos.
Oh, I agree. I've been following the discussion from the outset, and I almost entirely agree with yours and Endless' position.
My point is that the discussion about everything related to the motivations and process behind the procurement of the Infinity Stones have everything to do with Thanos.
Last couple of pages have been exhausting, Good God. All I need to say is, some people need to pay attention when watching these films. Little things can slip right under ya without even realising it.
So apparently Thanos is not the villain in GotG2 and there is a chance he might not be in it at all.
He doesn't need to be. His influence is all that needs to be felt.
I honestly don't know how I feel about Thanos.
I almost think they should have just waited to reveal him and not done so in the fashion they did, and then not come him again in the film.
It was cool to see him and all, but he was just sort of...there. Brolin was solid, but just okay.
And I don't think that's the feeling one should get from Thanos. Maybe that was a Thanos decoy or something.