The Dark Knight Rises Two-Face in the Third Film?

[Two-Face]

Ahhh was it the script? Thought it was the novel.

The script and the novel are similar, this is from the novel:

"Gordon grabbed the flashlight and shined it into the hole. At the bottom, Dent was sprawled, neck twisted. the mutilated side of his face exposed, his left eye open and staring sightlessly. He was obviously dead"

i typed all that, come on he's dead and Gordon is there with him.

 

[Ekricket]

I would. Why? Because it would be ****ing ridiculous to explain how a guy with a broken neck some how got up and walked off when the entire area was surrounded by cops and sniffer dogs.

I dunno..... this is a guy who was involved in a fire that was so bad it burned off all the skin from his face - not third degree burns but something more like fifteenth degree burn - and then just a few days later is charging around town shooting drivers and getting involved in car rollovers and emerging unscathed...... he's pretty tough.

Gotham cops are not universally known for their astute awareness and dedication to their jobs.....hence the Batman

I mean these guys can't catch a guy who is dressed up like a clown who drives a semi truck around and shoots RPG's at armored cars without having the help of a dedicated vigilante.
I mean criminals can climb on top of the mayors office and swing a corpse down so it slams into the mayors window and they can't catch them.

Maybe it is possible that one man could elude them while they were busy chasing the Batman. But more likely that they took him into custody, and have commited him to Arkham, and are lying about it to the public. I mean c'mon - they gonna have an open casket service? I don't know if a mortician can cover up that kind of ugliness.
That's the problem with lying - once you start, you just gotta keep going.

 

[Mrs.J]

Sorry, you are both wrong. To an extent. Joker didn't win. Period.

The only way Joker would of got a full win is if Batman killed him and the ships blew each other up.

"Full win" or not "full win"? A win is a win right?
If having dent turn to twoface doesnt clarify a win---then why cover it up? Then why have Batman take the blame?
Just as the joker said--He had an ace in the hole. He didnt care that the ships didnt blow up. He didnt care that batman didnt kill him. he knew that batman wouldnt let him die. So as he said it--he had an ace in the whole and he knew that in the end he would prove that their white knight could be brought to his level.
You dont think this is a "win" for the joker? I seriously doubt he cares that it was covered up. It just proves more so that he did succeed because Gordon and Batman went through all that trouble to twist the truth.

 

[Darlton]

"Full win" or not "full win"? A win is a win right?
If having dent turn to twoface doesnt clarify a win---then why cover it up? Then why have Batman take the blame?
Just as the joker said--He had an ace in the hole. He didnt care that the ships didnt blow up. He didnt care that batman didnt kill him. he knew that batman wouldnt let him die. So as he said it--he had an ace in the whole and he knew that in the end he would prove that their white knight could be brought to his level.
You dont think this is a "win" for the joker? I seriously doubt he cares that it was covered up. It just proves more so that he did succeed because Gordon and Batman went through all that trouble to twist the truth.

No, he lost. It was never about him proving something to himself. He was proving something to others, to all the people in Gotham. He said it: "... it's about sendind a message." And the message was not delivered. In fact, he knew he was almost defeated when the people in the ferries chose to behave differently of what he had predicted. When Batman said the fateful words "You're alone" it affected him. And he knew it was a temporary defeat... "until their spirits break completely... until they take a look at the real Harvey Dent and all the heroics things he's done".

But the people of Gotham never got to know those things. And as long it remains that way, the Joker's plan is frustrated. He lost. And that's the point of the movie, as it's the point in The Killing Joke when Gordon fails to fall into insanity. The Joker loses in both. Not many people get that, I suppose, judging by the fair amount of them who say the Joker won ultimately. He didn't. Batman did. It was a REALLY pyrrhic victory, but one nonetheless.

 

[Jack_Sparrow]

The Joker didn't lose because he was either going to win knowing Gotham's citizens would lose faith and hope, or that Batman would be viewed as the enemy. He made things so Batman had to take the blame for horrendous crimes, and now Batman is being hunted and is going to be feared/hated by the very people he's been protecting, so the Joker did win. If you think otherwise, I suggest you re-watch the film more than once.


In any case, to be blatantly honest I'd love for Two-Face to return because he's one of my all time favorite enemies, and seeing more of him would be fantastic.

 

[Jack_Sparrow]

Edit: Double Post

 

[Darlton]

The Joker didn't lose because he was either going to win knowing Gotham's citizens would lose faith and hope, or that Batman would be viewed as the enemy. He made things so Batman had to take the blame for horrendous crimes, and now Batman is being hunted and is going to be feared/hated by the very people he's been protecting, so the Joker did win. If you think otherwise, I suggest you re-watch the film more than once.

Batman was already being regarded by the public as an evil (a necessary one) or, at least, an unwanted resource. They reacted by wanting to turn him in the first moment the Joker killed his first victim. That wasn't the endgame. Even if it was, what the Joker was arguing was a full "banishment", a move by the citizens completely separating the Batman from what they deemed acceptable... but Batman (maybe preventing that, among a number of things) took the initiative and separated himself. It wasn't the people of Gotham deeming him as an enemy, but Batman posing as something he isn't, deceiving the people into labeling him a public enemy. It wasn't done as the Joker predicted. It was on Batman's terms. Except the press conference scene, none of the Joker predictions in the interrogation became real. The citizens didn't "eat each other" and they didn't "cast Batman out". He never... EVER... predicted Batman actively taking the blame. Not to mention that Batman had something to gain from that: sending the message to the rest of the criminal world that he didn't have such a things as a no kill rule. It served Batman's purpose and only his.

The Joker lost. I'm just pointing out at what appears in the movie. Of course, we can turn a blind eye and pretend what is the movie can be re-interpreted, but I don't think the wirters should base a sequel idea on such reinterpreation.

 

[Mrs.J]

i dont know i guess it really is a matter of opinion. I understand your points (dalton), But i dont agree

Ultimately he did win IMO, yes I know Batman canceled it out by taking the blame and that is a theme or point of the movie---that batman is what gotham needs him to be.
Either way the joker proved his point.
I dunno i also guess it depends on who side you are looking at.
Batman and Gordon see it as a win since they covered up the truth.
and joker---yes--although it didnt make it to the masses (yet ) he did succeed in turning their white knight.

yes joker showed a face of defeat when the ferrys didnt blow up--but batman did too when the joker told him about his ace in the hole--harvey dent. remember?

Like i said i think its a matter of opinion.im intitled to mine as are you

 

[Eggyman]

The Joker's point was to show Gotham how the good can fall. So, no, he didn't win.

 

[Jack_Sparrow]

Nah, he really didn't lose, he won.

 

[Eggyman]

Well if you say so...

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Nah, he really didn't lose, he won.

No, he really didn't win, he lost.

The only way Joker would of won is if Batman killed him (Joker was trying get Batman to break his "one rule") he didn't.

Or if one of the boats blew up, that didn't happen.

The "Ace in the Hole" thing? That was more of a consolation prize.

 

[Mrs.J]

So the image batman fought to withhold as a crimefighter--didnt "fall" to the same level as the jokers. because now he is a murderer just like the criminals he fought to put away since he took the blame for killing Harvey.
And yes---a public enemy by choice--but a public enemy none the less.
In gotham's eyes he "broke his one rule"

 

[Ace of Knaves]

But that doesn't matter to Batman. His "one rule" is for him and him alone. The only reason that rule exists is because HE doesn't want to become like the people he is fighting, it only matters to him.

 

[Eggyman]

Exactly, Ace. He wasn't Gotham's shining light - Harvey was. Better him taking the blame than Harvey.

 

[Mrs.J]

yes, but to Gotham now batman is just like those people he was fighting to put away. He is labeled a murderer on top of being a vigilante---etc etc.
IMO ok--either way joker proved to gotham that some one of good standing can fall.
So what its not harvey--its batman


BUT seriously guys this is fun
But i have to get to bed lol
it 4:30 in the morning and I have to wake up at 9!!!


I seriously doubt we will agree with each other so I call for a notion to agree to disagree
Good night guys

 

[Eggyman]

But Batman in this franchise has never been viewed as 'good'. There's no evidence to support that.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Good point Mrs J. But is there any indication that the Gotham citizens don't think Batman is a killer? I don't remember there being any. All we know is that the citizens are not happy with Batman's presence anyway.

If and when the truth comes out about Harvey, then Joker get's the win. Because Harvey was always known as the White Knight. For him to be revealed as a killer would be worse than Batman to be THOUGHT of as a killer, you know?

 

[craigdbfan]

Kids seem to like him.

Although the press hearing with Dent makes it seem like a good majority of adults think Batman is nothing more than a meddling menace who has only escalated violence and by provoking the mob he's only positioned Gotham in an even worse scenario.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Exactly. Couldn't of put it better myself.

 

[Eggyman]

I could have

 

[Jack_Sparrow]

No, he really didn't win, he lost.

The only way Joker would of won is if Batman killed him (Joker was trying get Batman to break his "one rule") he didn't.

Or if one of the boats blew up, that didn't happen.

The "Ace in the Hole" thing? That was more of a consolation prize.

Batman did break his one rule....he killed Two-Face.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

But not in a way that would make him like the people he is fighting. It was either do that, or risk a little kid get his brains blown out. It was for a noble cause.

But I'm sure the next film will explore Bruce's feelings of guilt anyway.

 

[Jack_Sparrow]

True but for all intents and purposes he did break that rule, unless Two-Face does come back, and with Nolan, there's no telling. He could be fooling us all, or he could've been dead serious (see what I did there).

 

[Eggyman]

I saw it like a naked elephant sitting on my sweating face.