Venom could never have been a main villain... think about it.

[Spiderine]

Venom doesn't commit random or petty crimes like a thug such as sandman or scorpion. He isn't a scientist or genius with a massive ego like Doc Ock. He is not power hungry or out to control parts of the city like Green Goblin. He is not a psychotic killer like that kills people for pleasure like Carnage. He is not a villain for hire like Rhino. All he wants is spiderman/peter. Imagine if he killed him,what now. Would he take up the duty of hero?

 

[GoldGoblin]

Harry could of been a main villain more than Venom could of.

 

[Eggyman]

Venom doesn't commit random or petty crimes like a thug such as sandman or scorpion. He isn't a scientist or genius with a massive ego like Doc Ock. He is not power hungry or out to control parts of the city like Green Goblin. He is not a psychotic killer like that kills people for pleasure like Carnage. He is not a villain for hire like Rhino. All he wants is spiderman/peter. Imagine if he killed him,what now. Would he take up the duty of hero?

I agree. Venom to me is one of the most interesting villains there is. He hates Peter/Spidey for personal reasons that most of us know of -- he feels wronged by him. But in many ways Venom is in awe of Spidey . . . virtually loves him to death (in TAS he even refers to himself as Spidey's 'biggest fan'). Kinda like how Mark Chapman was with John Lennon: he thought so much of him that he felt like he could not exist with such an iconic shadow looming over him; the only way he could feel superior to him was to kill him.

Very rarely has a comic-book 'villain' had such a deep potential as Venom has.

 

[Mr Jide]

That wouldn't work. Who would Spidey be fighting prior to Eddie getting the symbiote? These are action-adventure films. Merely presenting a rivlary between Peter and Eddie would be boring. How would Peter learn that the symbiote was destructive? Who would he test the enhancements against?

What do you think sm 2 was about? If I'm lying or mistaken was Doc Ock not the only villain in sm2? . As for the rivalry between Peter and Brock being boring, I 100% doubt that. Again, you've seen sm2 right? That is by far imo one of the most boring movies I've ever seen. The drama was too slow and hardly compelling, a complete bore-fest of a movie.

As for venom, who's to say he'd be the only villain. Harry still has his story and if Raimi was smart enough, he'd actually have spidey take out more than a couple of thugs, something even the batman movies get right . My point is, venom can easily have his own movie as well as being the main villain out of a series of villains spidey may face in a movie.

And gdw was off. The Goblin's main goal wasn't getting Spider-man. His main goal was personal power. He saw Spidey as an obstacle to that goal- but decided rather than simply killing Spidey off, he'd attempt to make him an ally, based on the idea of their mutual super human abilities. All very well conceived.

I didn't agree or indicate that gdw was right on what he said about Norman's motives, in fact, I pretty much said exactly what you said in another thread.

 

[Arcturus]

I think the Venom saga could be done with no problems;

1) Introduce Symbiote (Of any origin) to Peter Parker. Have him bonded with the creature for awhile, show how it is twisting him and how he must get rid of it. And Develop Eddie Brock as we go along.

2) Have another villain (Whomever) and have Spider-Man face off with this villain.

3) Extension of (1), symbiote finds Eddie Brock.

4) Sure Venom wont have a ton of screen time, but it sure is alot more then we'll be getting in SM-3 (Not that i'm complaining). Also, with the other villain finish up the business with him/her and when Spidey thinks all is well, Venom shatters this hope.

5) Now there are two paths we can travel;

A) Venom is defeated, dies or gets locked up somehow someway.

B) Venom can be the villain for SM-4.

Now i'm not saying this is the way to go, or that it's a great idea, i'm more then sure there are flaws but for the sake of this argument, I believe it can be done. I like these discussions and figured I could contribute to it.

Just remember these are ideas.

 

[landon]

Well, to me Venom is the main villian. Seriously who gives a ***** about the Sandman? He's a lame villain anyways! *lol*

 

[Mr Jide]

I give a f--k about sandman and even though he's had one of the worst comic book treatments, I appreciate Raimi's attempt at giving Marko's character some meaning and a decent treatment.

 

[SolidSnake]

What they should have done with the third movie was make it like the 3 TAS episodes, replace Sandman with Rhino, take Shocker and Kingpin out. Change the storyline a little bit and add Harry into the mix. Got yourself a good movie with some badass fight scenes. The final battle in the 3rd Venom ep was nice, live action could have made it cooler.

 

[chaseter]

I don't think he could have been the main villian alone no. But, an equal villian with somebody else most deffinitely. I am purely ecstatic I get to see Venom on screen and am thankful for that...he looks great. But it would have been icing on the cake to see Venom going over to Aunt May's house for tea and Peter arrives. It would have been great to see him stalking MJ and Peter. Seeing him change his demeanor to pompous prick at the Bugle and other small quirks that make Venom well, Venom. I think Lizard would have gone along great with Venom myself. They don't need to interact or team up but it would have been nice to have 2 major villians that were fierce, feral, angry, and a big threat to Spider-Man and the city. But like I said, I am happy with who we are getting for SM3 and this movie looks great. No regrets!!!!

 

[chaseter]

What they should have done with the third movie was make it like the 3 TAS episodes, replace Sandman with Rhino, take Shocker and Kingpin out. Change the storyline a little bit and add Harry into the mix. Got yourself a good movie with some badass fight scenes. The final battle in the 3rd Venom ep was nice, live action could have made it cooler.

Sandman is a far greater and visually stunning character than Rhino. Rhino has been rehashed so many freaking times it's ridiculous. He's down there with Shocker. Raimi has made a B-rate villian, Sandman, into a stunningly visual and great character in SM3.

 

[FatalEnergy]

Venom could easily be the main villian, but theres no way he could be the only villian.

 

[GoldGoblin]

They could of stretched everything out.They could of just made Harry the one and only main villain,should of been Hobgoblin if he was a New Goblin anyway.

Then you have spidey gets the black spidey suit right before ther first encounter,and it could of been longer more deadlier battles where spidey is actually trying to kill Harry,and Harry is actually trying to kill Peter all through out the movie.

The ending of the movie could of been after Peter throws the bomb at Harry's face,Peter thinks he has killed his friend,so he goes to the church to take off the symbiote where we get a cliffhanger of Venom.

Then in SM4 you would have Venom as the main villain,Harry in the hospital disfigured(should of been like Anakin in ROTS),spidey back in his red/blue spidey suit.

But they should of had Carnage with Venom in SM4,because once spidey finds out the symbiote villain's weakness(loud sound) at the end of the movie there is no point to introduce Carnage in a later sequel,because right when Carnage shows up spidey would take him out in 10 seconds.

And then have the battle royale be spidey/Hobgoblin vs Venom/Carnage.

Then SM5 could of been Sandman,Lizard,and Kraven.

 

[chaseter]

^There has to be closure at the end of each Raimi-Spidey movie. Without closure in SM3...then me thinks it would suck and be off from his style. Somebody would have to die or be captured in SM3. Plus I hate cliff hangers.

 

[Mr Jide]

Venom could easily be the main villian, but theres no way he could be the only villian.

Yes he could.

 

[GoldGoblin]

^There has to be closure at the end of each Raimi-Spidey movie. Without closure in SM3...then me thinks it would suck and be off from his style. Somebody would have to die or be captured in SM3. Plus I hate cliff hangers.

^
But SM2 kinda did have a cliffhanger when Harry found the Goblin's lair.

 

[SolidSnake]

What do you guys think of my idea?

 

[FatalEnergy]

Yes he could.

can you explain please because I have no idea how he could hold up a movie on his own.

 

[chaseter]

^
But SM2 kinda did have a cliffhanger when Harry found the Goblin's lair.

Yea I forgot about that...but the only villian in the movie did die and there was closure with that arc. Like I mentioned...it would work if there was some bit of closure with the story and the theme surrounding Peter.

 

[The Shape]

Venom essentially is the main villain in SM3.

Venom is not one person. Venom is Eddie Brock combined with the symbiote. Throughout Spider-man 3, we see Eddie and the symbiote as separate entities. Yeah, we'll see a lot of Sandman and Harry Surf-Goblin, but if you think about the, the whole film builds up to Venom's appearance, when Brock and the symbiote finally meet and the real battle begins for Peter.

 

[BrollySupersj]

I agree too that Venom could have been an excellent main villain.

 

[BrollySupersj]

Giant Sand-Man reminds me of the Metallo from Superman Returns, only...he's better....

 

[not_a_victim]

My only problem with the whole thing is that the movie is being marketed with the whole "internal struggle" thing that the symbiote causes for Parkers. The movie is being pushed as a platform to see parker struggle with himself (and the symbiote), but then the symbiote plays such a MINOR role after he gets it off his body...I dunno, it would seem that if the reports are true, and that the Venom battle is relatively short, and Venom has very little screen time, it would seem almost anti-climatic.
The other thing is that it appears that Spidey is being set up to be some sort of uber superhero (as if that comment made any sense). He is going to battle 3 bad guys in this film, and come out on top. Now we know he gets help from Harry at the end, and it may/may not cost Harry his life, but that just makes Spidey even more of a model of perfection... Not only will he be triumphant physically, but the man that has been obssessed with killing spider-man in the last two movies of the series somehow overcomes his obsession, forgives him, and helps him in the end?
DON'T get me wrong, I'm not bashing or nuttin' like that, I'm mostly confused my the marketing thus far. After I see the movie, it may all make sense.

 

[Spade]

He is a side villain for a good reason.

A story of him being the main villain just doesn't have enough substance.

What would happen if the whole movie was just about Venom? 30 minutes of Brock getting jealous of Peter... 30 minutes of the transformation... 30 minutes of Venom terrorizing the city... 30 minutes final battle. That's just not movie material. It's not enough. It sounds too much like a good guy beats the bad guy story. Done too many times. It was already done in Spider-Man 1. People will say, oh it's exactly like what happened in the first movie, Peter struggles, tries to find himself, gets tired of being a hero, etc. etc.

It just couldn't be done.

I agree with this alot. If the viewer doesn't understand why Brock hates Spider-Man and why the symbiote is such a threat Venom loses thematic power. I agree with how the screenplay is going about it. The symbiote needs to come across as a parasite that does more to Peter than just attack him with vitriol. It needs to move the plot by twisting his emotions and messing with the perfect scenario he's accomplished for himself. In the same way, Brock needs to be able to develop a reason for wanting to kill Peter and for exhibiting the "agression" the symbiote is attracted to.

If you have all this happen early in Spider-Man 3 you have half a film where we see a copy-and-paste of Brock silently stalking Peter from McFarlane's time on the books. That works for the comics, but in the movies it would require filler material and that would just introduce the really banal "innocence" motif that would take away from Venom's homicidal tendencies. By making Brock the subplot the entire film and ending the movie with the bonding you would compound the issue. Not only would you have a whole film with a character Raimi generally doesn't really seem to have much interest in, but you would also make the climax of this film a dry one that feels incomplete.

By making Venom's appearance and the kidnapping a climax of the movie you give two things: a physical manifestation of the symbiote's evil that isn't the Black Suited Spider-Man (who is supposed to be the character you're rallying for sans the Black Suit) and a situation where Peter is bound to have to fight Brock physically in order to succeed. Granted, rescuing Mary Jane has become a bit of a motif of the franchise's movie finishes, but it's a bearable one. Peter needs a challenge that proves to the people around him that the damage he did during his time with the Black Suit wasn't something he reveled in, Brock and the symbiote need to be given a grand stage to perform the climatic final act in and Harry in particular needs the crunch time Peter's near-death experience will give to decide whether he will allow the death of his unloving father and the actions of the symbiote dictate the fate of his best friend.

The only complaint I have is the necessity of the Sandman, but I suppose there's the greater message of forgiveness to get across so I won't moan and groan too much about it. I'm happy with things as they are. [blackout]Now if only he wasn't reduced to a skeleton...I'm all for the Venom symbiote having his traits, but why can't the guy die with some semblance of dignity?[/blackout]

 

[not_a_victim]

I agree with this alot. If the viewer doesn't understand why Brock hates Spider-Man and why the symbiote is such a threat Venom loses thematic power. I agree with how the screenplay is going about it. The symbiote needs to come across as a parasite that does more to Peter than just attack him with vitriol. It needs to move the plot by twisting his emotions and messing with the perfect scenario he's accomplished for himself. In the same way, Brock needs to be able to develop a reason for wanting to kill Peter and for exhibiting the "agression" the symbiote is attracted to.

If you have all this happen early in Spider-Man 3 you have half a film where we see a copy-and-paste of Brock silently stalking Peter from McFarlane's time on the books. That works for the comics, but in the movies it would require filler material and that would just introduce the really banal "innocence" motif that would take away from Venom's homicidal tendencies. By making Brock the subplot the entire film and ending the movie with the bonding you would compound the issue. Not only would you have a whole film with a character Raimi generally doesn't really seem to have much interest in, but you would also make the climax of this film a dry one that feels incomplete.

By making Venom's appearance and the kidnapping a climax of the movie you give two things: a physical manifestation of the symbiote's evil that isn't the Black Suited Spider-Man (who is supposed to be the character you're rallying for sans the Black Suit) and a situation where Peter is bound to have to fight Brock physically in order to succeed. Granted, rescuing Mary Jane has become a bit of a motif of the franchise's movie finishes, but it's a bearable one. Peter needs a challenge that proves to the people around him that the damage he did during his time with the Black Suit wasn't something he reveled in, Brock and the symbiote need to be given a grand stage to perform the climatic final act in and Harry in particular needs the crunch time Peter's near-death experience will give to decide whether he will allow the death of his unloving father and the actions of the symbiote dictate the fate of his best friend.

The only complaint I have is the necessity of the Sandman, but I suppose there's the greater message of forgiveness to get across so I won't moan and groan too much about it. I'm happy with things as they are. [blackout]Now if only he wasn't reduced to a skeleton...I'm all for the Venom symbiote having his traits, but why can't the guy die with some semblance of dignity?[/blackout]

While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, if done properly, Venom could easily have been the ONLY villian.

We could watch black Spidey doing a downhill slide in the first act. He still stops bank robberies and such, but now does it in a more vicious, brutal way. He alienates the press, MJ, his aunt, the city, and even Brock, who could start out as an actual friend. Parker could move on to Gwen Stacy, who could be Brock's girl, and steal her from him. Parker could make Brock loose his job somehow, etc. Anyway, parker winds up screwing up his life and Brock's. Parker finaly realizes it, and gets rid of the symbiote, gets back with MJ, the city loves him again, etc. HOWEVER, Brock can't get his job back, and GS still has the hots for Parker, and tells Brock just that, blah blah blah.

Brock gets the symbiote, and at first, tries to be a hero like SPidey, in a desperate attempt to get both GS and others to like him. He could even start out with a fairly close copy of Spidey's black costume, and as Brock goes on his downhill slide, the costume mutates, responding to his worsening mental state. The webbing could go from nice and neat to mesy and random as his psychosis gets worse. Brock/Venom keep showing up at Spidey's actions, and even messes some of them up. Spidey tells Brock he doesn't want his help, etc. It pushes Brock over the edge, and he finally decides to battle Spidey.
Then we would see Parker realize what he could have become, as he sees the final version of Venom in front of him, a mindless, drooling idiot bent on destruction. It would also make Brock's death more of a sad, unavoidable end to his downward spiral. All the while, parker could be thinking that it could have been him instead of Brock.

 

[Spade]

While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, if done properly, Venom could easily have been the ONLY villian.

We could watch black Spidey doing a downhill slide in the first act. He still stops bank robberies and such, but now does it in a more vicious, brutal way. He alienates the press, MJ, his aunt, the city, and even Brock, who could start out as an actual friend. Parker could move on to Gwen Stacy, who could be Brock's girl, and steal her from him. Parker could make Brock loose his job somehow, etc. Anyway, parker winds up screwing up his life and Brock's. Parker finaly realizes it, and gets rid of the symbiote, gets back with MJ, the city loves him again, etc. HOWEVER, Brock can't get his job back, and GS still has the hots for Parker, and tells Brock just that, blah blah blah.

Brock gets the symbiote, and at first, tries to be a hero like SPidey, in a desperate attempt to get both GS and others to like him. He could even start out with a fairly close copy of Spidey's black costume, and as Brock goes on his downhill slide, the costume mutates, responding to his worsening mental state. The webbing could go from nice and neat to mesy and random as his psychosis gets worse. Brock/Venom keep showing up at Spidey's actions, and even messes some of them up. Spidey tells Brock he doesn't want his help, etc. It pushes Brock over the edge, and he finally decides to battle Spidey.
Then we would see Parker realize what he could have become, as he sees the final version of Venom in front of him, a mindless, drooling idiot bent on destruction. It would also make Brock's death more of a sad, unavoidable end to his downward spiral. All the while, parker could be thinking that it could have been him instead of Brock.

I do concede to your point- I can see that working well. My only complaint is that I feel that if they went in this direction they would humanize Brock too much. I enjoy the contrast this film makes between the redeemable and the irredeemable, and Harry does deserve his time in the spotlight. This would work, but I question the efficiency. That's not to say I dislike it at all- the concept of Brock being a friend gone foe would be great. I just think it plays a bit too much into the motif fans of Spider-Man's villains have been rubbed wrong by.