Why Venom Fans Didn't Like Venom

[storyteller]

Its simple. The symbiote and Venom were rushed. Spiderman action in the black suit is 2 events and thats it. Venom appears at the end but brock is under developed. It had nothing to do with the look or powers of Venom. Sandman and GG took too much time away. The threat of the symbiote and Venom just seemed tacked on.

 

[ggctuk]

I liked Venom. The comics went too far, and I think Web of Shadows went a tad too far to undo what the comics had done. In the movie, he was just right, but there could, and should, have been more of Venom in the movie. The fact the Black Suit wasn't featured much either did little to help matters.

 

[webhead731]

I disagree.


Not really. Venom is a physical equal to Spider-man not a stronger foe like he was in the comics.




The lack of screen time is a huge issue. They could have made a film just about Venom.

Making Venom a comedian in the finale really hurt him, too. He spent to much time cracking bad jokes when he should have been threatening or attacking people and Topher Grace spending most of his time showing his face. Like Doom Venom works when he's scary. Riami didn't deliver this enough.

...

Venom was totally stronger than Spidey. If you think about it, Spider-Man would haven never won if it weren't for him figuring out the sounds hurting Venom. He would have been KILLED if Harry wasn't there. Venom ****ed him up. Spidey wasn't winning at all.

Now, I will say, they should have elaborated on that more. I said "if you think about it", but really it should have been in greater detail and more brutal.

As for bad jokes..what? Like the one Spider-Sense joke? Which I thought was funny...
But that's it? He never made anymore "jokes". Unless you want to say "How's that sound, tiger?" is a joke. That was just referencing how he knows about him.

 

[LightningFlash]

As for bad jokes..what? Like the one Spider-Sense joke? Which I thought was funny...

Actually...that wasn't funny, it was forced. Or at least SEEMED forced.

Now what I never understood was the reasoning to show the symbiote only during the nights; because the symbiote represented all evil and blah, blah, blah. So what? The trailer showed an excellent swinging scene during the day and shows him, at least pictures of him kicking ass during the day. I don't wanna see pictures of it, I wanna see it happen! At least that would've shortened or at least take out one dance scene in the movie(two dance scenes..).

Also, we know Raimi filmed extra scenes that were in the novel. Brock and Marko meeting in the playground when the symbiote had already taken over Eddie(back to the "no symbiote during the day" complaint), and the scene with Eddie meeting Gwen. We know those scenes were filmed(and even an extra scene with Eddie at a bar). It's just, Raimi HAD those scenes filmed, and it's just aggravating; does he not know fans would've liked to see the scenes that were described in the novel? Scenes that would've given Brock more development which would be very-much needed in such a character-filled film? And even if this is talking about Venom, the same goes for Flint Marko; although I don't know if any extra scenes were filmed(although there were rumors about him meeting a doctor), Sandman needed more development.

I don't know about you, but I like a good movie that develops the character. I can't say it was a great movie, or good movie at all. What makes a movie is development: story, characters, everything.

Maybe this movie was a life-learned lesson for Mr. Raimi.

 

[American_Hobo]

Actually...that wasn't funny, it was forced. Or at least SEEMED forced.

Now what I never understood was the reasoning to show the symbiote only during the nights; because the symbiote represented all evil and blah, blah, blah. So what? The trailer showed an excellent swinging scene during the day and shows him, at least pictures of him kicking ass during the day. I don't wanna see pictures of it, I wanna see it happen! At least that would've shortened or at least take out one dance scene in the movie(two dance scenes..).

Also, we know Raimi filmed extra scenes that were in the novel. Brock and Marko meeting in the playground when the symbiote had already taken over Eddie(back to the "no symbiote during the day" complaint), and the scene with Eddie meeting Gwen. We know those scenes were filmed(and even an extra scene with Eddie at a bar). It's just, Raimi HAD those scenes filmed, and it's just aggravating; does he not know fans would've liked to see the scenes that were described in the novel? Scenes that would've given Brock more development which would be very-much needed in such a character-filled film? And even if this is talking about Venom, the same goes for Flint Marko; although I don't know if any extra scenes were filmed(although there were rumors about him meeting a doctor), Sandman needed more development.

I don't know about you, but I like a good movie that develops the character. I can't say it was a great movie, or good movie at all. What makes a movie is development: story, characters, everything.

Maybe this movie was a life-learned lesson for Mr. Raimi.

I think since Raimi didn't care about Venom so much and since he was forced to use Venom by Avi Arad, Raimi probably went like "Screw the Venom fans, I'm making my own Venom'. So he basically raiminized the character Venom and made him mirror part of Peter Parker (slim,young, basically ultimate Eddie Brock sonce the his name was called "Eddie Brock Jr".) instead of making him look like a buff and big guy that we know of.

I like Raimi, but it looks clear in Spiderman 3 that Raimi didnt care much about Venom.

So hopefully in Venom spin off movie Sony will hire a director who actually cares about the character Venom, or at least understands Venom very well

 

[webhead731]

Raimi said somewhere that he grew to like the character more.

It was his take but I really don't think he was thinking to offend us. I personally liked his take. As for the muscles, not every comic Venom has been in had a muscular Venom. There are some that are equally big as Spidey. Not only that, to see a black hulk of Symbiote on screen may look...fake.
Maybe they could have made him taller...but other than that I thought the look was dead-on to the comics' (some variations anyway) for the most part. Only it had the suit pattern and the raised webbing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like my Venom just a bit larger than Spidey. Muscular things are just not scary for me.

 

[American_Hobo]

Raimi said somewhere that he grew to like the character more.

It was his take but I really don't think he was thinking to offend us. I personally liked his take. As for the muscles, not every comic Venom has been in had a muscular Venom. There are some that are equally big as Spidey. Not only that, to see a black hulk of Symbiote on screen may look...fake.
Maybe they could have made him taller...but other than that I thought the look was dead-on to the comics' (some variations anyway) for the most part. Only it had the suit pattern and the raised webbing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like my Venom just a bit larger than Spidey. Muscular things are just not scary for me.

But most people recognize Eddie Brock as big and muscular guy.
Heck, even one of my friend(non Spiderman fan) said to me when he saw the movie that why Eddie Brock looked so different from cartoon and comic). Of course, my friend didn't like Topher Grace's Venom at all for that reason.
Not saying Topher Grace was bad, but simply, he just isn't Eddie Brock.
Like I said, he's Eddie Brock JR which's pretty much more of Ultimate Eddie Brock.

 

[webhead731]

Yeah. That is what they went for though. I take it you didn't like the character anyway?

 

[American_Hobo]

Yeah. That is what they went for though. I take it you didn't like the character anyway?

Well I think Venom was just wrong in every way in the movie.
I believe other posters in this thread already explained pretty much all the reasons the problems Venom had in this movie.

 

[LightningFlash]

Raimi said somewhere that he grew to like the character more.

It was his take but I really don't think he was thinking to offend us. I personally liked his take. As for the muscles, not every comic Venom has been in had a muscular Venom. There are some that are equally big as Spidey. Not only that, to see a black hulk of Symbiote on screen may look...fake.
Maybe they could have made him taller...but other than that I thought the look was dead-on to the comics' (some variations anyway) for the most part. Only it had the suit pattern and the raised webbing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like my Venom just a bit larger than Spidey. Muscular things are just not scary for me.

Haha, when and where did Raimi said he was enjoying the character of Venom? From the get-go of it all, he blasted newer characters like Venom because he only liked the original villains, hence him wanting Vulture in the third movie.

And Venom should be a hulking monster that only wants to kill Spidey. Venom isn't muscular, it's EDDIE BROCK. Just having a weakling of Topher Grace does no justice to Venom. Just the whole symbiote story pissed me off.

Maybe one day I'll make my own Spider-Man franchise and do a piss-poor job on the villains I don't like, lol.

 

[American_Hobo]

Maybe one day I'll make my own Spider-Man franchise and do a piss-poor job on the villains I don't like, lol.

that's exactly what Raimi did to Venom..LOL.

Raimi probably was thinking like "Oh crap I dont like Venom but i have to use him for this movie, oh well but it's ok because I'll just use him for last 15 minutes of the movie and kill him off."

If it was Vulture instead of Venom, Raimi probably wouldn't have killed him off.

 

[Venom75]

If Raimi messed up Venom just because he didn't like the character then he's lost all my respect and should be run out of town. I don't care how you feel towards a certain character,if you go out of your way to screw him up,especially at the expensive of your own movie,then you have no business being in Hollywood.

 

[The Joker]

Raimi didn't deliberately screw up anything. He just had zero respect for the comic book version of Venom because he found him to be a weak and shallow character. And I agree with him, comic book Venom is just that.

So they changed the character to a version that Raimi could appreciate.

 

[spiderfan970]

I didn't mind the completely different Brock persona, the only thing that bothered me was that venom didn't get enough screen time, I've never been a big fan of the comic book Eddie Brock. The Brock in the 90s animated series was a little more developed though AND he seems more true to the comics than the movie version.

 

[Venom75]

Raimi didn't deliberately screw up anything. He just had zero respect for the comic book version of Venom because he found him to be a weak and shallow character. And I agree with him, comic book Venom is just that.

So they changed the character to a version that Raimi could appreciate.

I'm not saying they did. That was just an answer to speculation,which I didn't think was true anyway. But I do have this feeling that maybe Venom didn't get as much screen time as he deserved thanks to Raimi's view of the character. I'm sure if he liked him a bit more than Venom/Brock would've received at least a few more scenes in the film.
I know that you despise the character,Joker. I obviously don't share that view but it's your opinion and I respect that. But I do agree with you that Venom wasn't much of a villain back when he was created. Back in the late 80's and throughout the 90's it was all about look and attitude instead of story(which explains the creation of Carnage,a character I never did like). But over the last few years I think the character of Venom has been given more depth and substance(thanks to the film,the SSM cartoon and series like Dark Origin). I know I'm not the only one,but I really can see the dark inner turmoil that resides inside Brock. The symbiote itself is a very fascinating creation,but it all starts with Brock and I think he alot deeper than given credit for. Of course,it's up to the writers to do something with that,which they really haven't for most of Venom's life.

 

[LightningFlash]

Raimi didn't deliberately screw up anything. He just had zero respect for the comic book version of Venom because he found him to be a weak and shallow character. And I agree with him, comic book Venom is just that.

So they changed the character to a version that Raimi could appreciate.

Raimi could've tried harder. Praying to God to kill Peter...bad writing of a character right there.

 

[The Joker]

I'm not saying they did. That was just an answer to speculation,which I didn't think was true anyway. But I do have this feeling that maybe Venom didn't get as much screen time as he deserved thanks to Raimi's view of the character. I'm sure if he liked him a bit more than Venom/Brock would've received at least a few more scenes in the film.

He was short changed on screen time because the original script never catered for Venom. The Vulture was supposed to be the villain. He was supposed to be Sandman's cell mate in prison, and a kind of father figure to him.

But Arad wanted to cash in on the Venom fanboys, so he forced Raimi to drop the Vulture and put Venom in. And if you want Venom then you have to include the whole back story of the symbiote. And that eats up valuable screen time that could be spent on more worthy things.

If anyone is to really blame, then blame Arad. Raimi got lumbered with a character he had no respect for, and who also carried too much baggage story wise.

Raimi could've tried harder. Praying to God to kill Peter...bad writing of a character right there.

I agree.

But it's hard to turn s**t into gold.

 

[Venom75]

He was short changed on screen time because the original script never catered for Venom. The Vulture was supposed to be the villain. He was supposed to be Sandman's cell mate in prison, and a kind of father figure to him.

But Arad wanted to cash in on the Venom fanboys, so he forced Raimi to drop the Vulture and put Venom in. And if you want Venom then you have to include the whole back story of the symbiote. And that eats up valuable screen time that could be spent on more worthy things.

If anyone is to really blame, then blame Arad. Raimi got lumbered with a character he had no respect for, and who also carried too much baggage story wise.

I understand,but then why didn't they changed the script around alot more then they did? It seemed kinda lazy to me,ya know? It's like,instead of changing the script around to accomodate Venom and the symbiote and making everything click,they just substituted Venom for Vulture. Do you know what I mean?
I think that most everyone is to blame,but it's like I've always said,I don't think that Arad "forced" Sam to do anything. the word "forced" makes it sound like he threatened Raimi or something. Raimi is a big boy and could've told Arad "No." Either he didn't understand Venom enough or he alreayd had a script. Either way,I don't think Raimi would've been fired or scolded. But,I do think that it's up to Raimi to understand a bit more about the character,and even if he didn't I'm sure that someone was around him who knew alot more about Venom. How come nobody ever spoke up and said,"Hey,Sam! Venom wouldn't do that?" This is where I kinda get pissed off at Topher Grace. I've heard him go on and on about what a huge Spidey/Venom fan he is. Didn't he see the character was being ruined? I can't believe he just went along with it. If I were in his position I'd speak up and make sure that Venom was represented well. I don't know. Maybe he was just so happy with being in the film that he didn't want to open his mouth for fear or being a pain or something?

 

[LightningFlash]

I agree.

But it's hard to turn s**t into gold.

I guess that is true.

Eddie Brock, for the most part in the movie, was an average arc, and even in the novelization it was well written. Every character, imo, in the novelization were really well written.

 

[dark phenom]

Didn't like it that they made Venom the secondary villain, Spiderman 3 should've been his movie but I'm glad they at least used him.

 

[TopherChaos3]

overall every villain in 3 sucked in one aspect or another
Venom: needed to be bigger, as well as brock. He shouldn't shreik, he should roar. especially if carnage ever shows up on screen in the future, because if they stick to the comic with carnages image he'll just look like a red venom

New goblin: shouldv'e just stuck with the original glider, and suit im sorry a flying snowboard doesn't intimidate me

Sandman: he was good for the most part, but the way things ended with him sucked. Sure, he was sorry for killing uncle ben, but anything other than that, he couldn't have been sorry for because he believed so strongly in his motive (to get money for his sick kid)

The thing that dissapointed me the most was that eddie was still kind of inside venom calling the shots when venom should have just completely took over after eddies struggling. He should have been almost uncontrollable, not taking sides.

I'm not sure if anyone recalls how sandman eventually died but it was because HE WAS BITTEN BY VENOM
When i realized that in the movie that was not going to be that case was that tiem when i yelled in the middle of the theatre "this is effen ridiculous!"

 

[TopherChaos3]

and of course none of the villains had any connection whatsoever other than they all wanted to take out spidey

 

[American_Hobo]

overall every villain in 3 sucked in one aspect or another
Venom: needed to be bigger, as well as brock. He shouldn't shreik, he should roar. especially if carnage ever shows up on screen in the future, because if they stick to the comic with carnages image he'll just look like a red venom

New goblin: shouldv'e just stuck with the original glider, and suit im sorry a flying snowboard doesn't intimidate me

Sandman: he was good for the most part, but the way things ended with him sucked. Sure, he was sorry for killing uncle ben, but anything other than that, he couldn't have been sorry for because he believed so strongly in his motive (to get money for his sick kid)

The thing that dissapointed me the most was that eddie was still kind of inside venom calling the shots when venom should have just completely took over after eddies struggling. He should have been almost uncontrollable, not taking sides.

I'm not sure if anyone recalls how sandman eventually died but it was because HE WAS BITTEN BY VENOM
When i realized that in the movie that was not going to be that case was that tiem when i yelled in the middle of the theatre "this is effen ridiculous!"

Well said.

Seriously, Topher Grace had body of Carnage, not Venom.

 

[LightningFlash]

Don't let the three villains cloud all of your judgment regarding Spider-Man 3...give some to Peter...Spider-Man DOESN'T let a villain fly away. Raimi-Spidey does though.

 

[LightningFlash]

I'm not sure if anyone recalls how sandman eventually died but it was because HE WAS BITTEN BY VENOM
When i realized that in the movie that was not going to be that case was that tiem when i yelled in the middle of the theatre "this is effen ridiculous!"

Ahh, yes....I posted the same thing in another thread...Raimi wasted another chance at a great scene...I thought this would be the route Raimi would go to when he first announced Sandman and Venom...yes, Venom was a sub-in for Vulture...but ol' Sammy should've been smart enough to make a Venom/Sandman fight happen.