Venom could never have been a main villain... think about it.

[Mr Jide]

can you explain please because I have no idea how he could hold up a movie on his own.

For starters, one only has to use their imagination.

I'd have a similar set up to what sm3 is doing except, I'd only have eddy get the symbiot right at the end of the movie and then for sm4, it'd be similar to how Venom was used when he 1st got the symbiot in 90s animated series. A lot of stalking, terrorising pete, playing with his mind, kidnap loved ones, hell I'd even have Venom kidnap JJ too. Venom as the only villain can be done. Doc ock and Norman each had their own movies, so why it's a stetch for people to think venom can't is beyond me.

 

[GoldGoblin]

Basically GG and Doc Ock are smart,they can battle spidey both physically and mentally,while Venom can only battle spidey physically.And it takes a villain who can battle spidey both physically and mentally to be the only main villain.

Harry,Sandman,and Venom all lack brains,that's why neither of them are the main and only villain.

 

[Nokio]

I agree. Venom is cool, but he's always after Spiderman. His beef is with parker/SM, you won't see Venom robbing or launching some grand plan for world conquest. I think he could've been the focus of the entire movie, but as someone mentioned he just doesn't have enough substance to really make for a good movie with him as a stand alone villian. I've always like seeing Spidey take on more then one villian. I'm hoping the Sinister Six get in there at some point.

 

[chamber-music]

The symbiote is Spidermans Red kryptonite.

 

[November Rain]

Basically GG and Doc Ock are smart,they can battle spidey both physically and mentally,while Venom can only battle spidey physically.And it takes a villain who can battle spidey both physically and mentally to be the only main villain.

Harry,Sandman,and Venom all lack brains,that's why neither of them are the main and only villain.

oh c'mon, ock did no such mental battles with spidey and carried a sequel...

he was told by the 'unintelligent' harry to find parker to get spiderman. He was hardly shown as the sharpest tool in the box.

I won't even get into his idea of increasing the scale of his work would better his chances, even cartoon ock wasn't this 'crazy'.

 

[Dragon]

oh c'mon, ock did no such mental battles with spidey and carried a sequel...

he was told by the 'unintelligent' harry to find parker to get spiderman. He was hardly shown as the sharpest tool in the box.

I won't even get into his idea of increasing the scale of his work would better his chances, even cartoon ock wasn't this 'crazy'.

The cartoon was childish, so that's not surprising.

The point is that Ock was a major threat on every level. He had his own goals and schemes and the power and intelligence to act on them. Same with Osborn.

They were not as Venom is, a one trick pony out for simplistic revenge for something pretty stupid.

All Venom can do, would do, is fight Spider-Man. And as Spidey 3 and the early comics show, rather easily dispatched. Ock and the Goblin were threats not just to Spidey, but to the public at large. Same with Sandman. Venom doesn't fit the main villain mold.

 

[faceplant]

i hate venom. he's unoriginal and boring.

 

[I_Hate_U_All]

i hate venom. he's unoriginal and boring.

a lot like your post.

Well, Venom's one of spidey's most popular villains. And that's why he's even in this film.

No matter how hard some of you try, you can't cover up and hide that plain as day fact. Venom's a cool villain.

 

[The Joker]

The cartoon was childish, so that's not surprising.

The point is that Ock was a major threat on every level. He had his own goals and schemes and the power and intelligence to act on them. Same with Osborn.

They were not as Venom is, a one trick pony out for simplistic revenge for something pretty stupid.

All Venom can do, would do, is fight Spider-Man. And as Spidey 3 and the early comics show, rather easily dispatched. Ock and the Goblin were threats not just to Spidey, but to the public at large. Same with Sandman. Venom doesn't fit the main villain mold.

I was about to answer November's post, but you did it much better, Dragon

No matter how hard some of you try, you can't cover up and hide that plain as day fact. Venom's a cool villain.

As hard as this may be for you to accept, not everyone shares that opinion. I never cared for comic book Venom either, and would have been perfectly happy to never see him show his face in this franchise.

I'm not unhappy that he's in SM-3, because Raimi has not only given him some decent motivations for hating Spidey, which will make him a more believable villain, but he also has limited his screen time to the final act of the movie, and chosen to focus more on Sandman and Harry.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Venom as the only villain can be done. Doc ock and Norman each had their own movies, so why it's a stetch for people to think venom can't is beyond me.

That's because the great and fantastical Raimi did not make him the main villain, therefore one is not allowed to believe that he may have been able to carry his own movie. What Raimi says and does, goes. You are not allowed to believe otherwise. Everything Raimi has done with Venom is perfect, you are not allowed to argue this.

 

[I_Hate_U_All]

I was about to answer November's post, but you did it much better, Dragon



As hard as this may be for you to accept, not everyone shares that opinion. I never cared for comic book Venom either, and would have been perfectly happy to never see him show his face in this franchise.

I'm not unhappy that he's in SM-3, because Raimi has not only given him some decent motivations for hating Spidey, which will make him a more believable villain, but he also has limited his screen time to the final act of the movie, and chosen to focus more on Sandman and Harry.

bla bla bla. I've read all this a million times... and I'm tired of arguing about how great venom is.

You'll see. You'll come out of Spidey 3, thinking of only one character. I Kid you Not.

One more thing... Venom's unique for the bond he shares with spiderman and also because he's everything spider-man would have been had he not learned uncle ben's lesson about great power and great responsibility. In better hands than Raimi's this could have been a great film on its own that'd explore these themes. As it is now, this stands to be a batman & Robin-ish kind of film like X3, stuffed with villains and explosions and a tiny speck of story... it'll make billions.

 

[SLYspyder]

venom IS the main villain, nitwits, he's the main threat.

sandman and goblin were just thrown in there to fill the space in between.

the whole story revolves around the symbiote.

 

[November Rain]

The cartoon was childish, so that's not surprising.

The point is that Ock was a major threat on every level. He had his own goals and schemes and the power and intelligence to act on them. Same with Osborn.

They were not as Venom is, a one trick pony out for simplistic revenge for something pretty stupid.

All Venom can do, would do, is fight Spider-Man. And as Spidey 3 and the early comics show, rather easily dispatched. Ock and the Goblin were threats not just to Spidey, but to the public at large. Same with Sandman. Venom doesn't fit the main villain mold.

Ock potentiall is BUT i don't believe he was shown to be in the last film. Not properly. I don't think he outsmarted spidey in any shape or form, out fought him, or showed a greater intelligence (with parker making clear observations beforehand on how his work would be unstable).

No need to diss cartoon ock, in armed and dangerous, he didn't come across as childish. He was arrogant, intelligent (trying to trick parker into mentioning the wrong paper), hot tempered, highly skilled (taking spidey out with only two tentacles), having an abilty to negotiate and put pressure on his foe (while he was stuck on the electro magnet he forced spidey's hand to let him go) and was quite clearly work obessed shown by his own private research as well as his inability to see how his fusion battery could not exceed the small size (which he at least managed to do unlike the movie ock).

those are all my observations, maybe he did exaggerate some of these points and if that's what you mean by childish so be it.

Yes you're right venom is a one trick pony but he does that trick well enough to hold a single movie...


Are you trying to say that all of this couldn't fit into a film

parker finding the symbiote
parker going bad
meeting with conner
parker losing the symbiote
venom's first encounter with parker
venom going to jail
venom getting out
venom taunting parker at bugle
venom taunting aunt may
venom pushing parker too far (like when he spilt offel on him in the comics)
venom and spidey's last fight at a construction site when parker finally gives in and allows the symbiote to try and take over him


this pretty much is an almagam of venom's first 3 or four comic stories with the inclusion of some aspects of the animated beginning for simplicity.

it kinda works for a trade paperback so i think it could work for a film. True only one film but it could still fit.

also it would cover aspects not really shown before such as a villain esaping custody and getting out again to come back after spidey.

i know their 'might' need to be some minor villain in there as a reference point but it would be venom's film entirely and i believe for a one off, it coule work.


EDIT:I haven't even mentioned some of his anti-heroic behaviour that could also be exploited in the plot to show variations of how he does things to how spidey does things and the parallels and differences in their approach and thought processes.

 

[dodus]

When during SM 1 or 2 did you ever honestly fear for the fate of New York? That's not what these movies are about. The focus has always been on the relationships between Peter, his friends, and the villain. An equally interesting and dramatic relationship between Peter and Brock would have no problem holding up an entire film. It's classic tragedy. Shakespeare did more with less. If you don't like the character, blame the writers, not the concepts behind him.

Also I've never seen the fact that Venom's only out for Peter's blood and not global domination as a failing of Venom. It's his mojo and what makes him unique among most comic villains. After two films with evil megalomaniacal scientific genuises at the helm, it would be a nice change of pace to see a villain that just wants to F up Spider-man's life, period. (Incidentally, that does seem to be the gist of this one).

Honestly, everything about Venom is right up Raimi's alley. That he's not getting his own movie has nothing to do with the character's dramatic potential and everything to do with the era he's from--the post-Raimi era.

You don't have to like Venom, be impressed with what's been done with his character in the comics, or want to see him in a movie. But I agree w/Mr. 7000+, to say that he couldn't hold up a movie bespeaks a lack of imagination.

 

[Cmill216]

When during SM 1 or 2 did you ever honestly fear for the fate of New York?

Maybe when taxis and other cars were being pulled across the streets by Ock's fusion experiment.

Or maybe when the Goblin was playing terrorist in Times Square.

 

[matthooper]

When during SM 1 or 2 did you ever honestly fear for the fate of New York? That's not what these movies are about. The focus has always been on the relationships between Peter, his friends, and the villain. An equally interesting and dramatic relationship between Peter and Brock would have no problem holding up an entire film. It's classic tragedy. Shakespeare did more with less. If you don't like the character, blame the writers, not the concepts behind him.

Also I've never seen the fact that Venom's only out for Peter's blood and not global domination as a failing of Venom. It's his mojo and what makes him unique among most comic villains. After two films with evil megalomaniacal scientific genuises at the helm, it would be a nice change of pace to see a villain that just wants to F up Spider-man's life, period. (Incidentally, that does seem to be the gist of this one).

Honestly, everything about Venom is right up Raimi's alley. That he's not getting his own movie has nothing to do with the character's dramatic potential and everything to do with the era he's from--the post-Raimi era.

You don't have to like Venom, be impressed with what's been done with his character in the comics, or want to see him in a movie. But I agree w/Mr. 7000+, to say that he couldn't hold up a movie bespeaks a lack of imagination.

Holy crap, a newbie with a post that has a good point and good grammar.

Besides loving Spider-Man since I was 3 years old, I love what Raimi has done with Spider-Man as well as the villians. Sure, Ock's fusion reactor might have destroyed the city, but it was collateral damage. It wasn't his plan to destroy the city, it wasn't the GG's, and it won't be Sandman's or Venom's. The core motivations for the villians has been realistic and complex, but not corny. In my opinion, the failings of the last few Superhero movies were mostly because of the villians (first and foremost the big DC movies I won't name). Raimi has crafted the villians with the same complexities as Spider-Man. I think we'll get the same from SM3 with all the villians.

 

[dodus]

Maybe when taxis and other cars were being pulled across the streets by Ock's fusion experiment.

Or maybe when the Goblin was playing terrorist in Times Square.

I said honestly. Even in Times Square, it's all about Norman, Peter, Harry, and MJ.

Holy crap, a newbie with a post that has a good point and good grammar.

Besides loving Spider-Man since I was 3 years old, I love what Raimi has done with Spider-Man as well as the villians. Sure, Ock's fusion reactor might have destroyed the city, but it was collateral damage. It wasn't his plan to destroy the city, it wasn't the GG's, and it won't be Sandman's or Venom's. The core motivations for the villians has been realistic and complex, but not corny.

Thanks. Exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[Spiderine]

Maybe when taxis and other cars were being pulled across the streets by Ock's fusion experiment.

Or maybe when the Goblin was playing terrorist in Times Square.

And probably when Sandman becomes 60 stories high and goes on the rampage.

 

[matthooper]

And probably when Sandman becomes 60 stories high and goes on the rampage.

It's not the fact that the city was in danger from the villians, of course they were. It was the ultimate motivations of the villians to me that counterbalanced Spider-Man. All the Spidey villians are real people who for one reason or another found power and used the power poorly, wheeas Peter used it for good.

Not one SM villian wanted to kill "billions" and make his own land, or make the entire city insane, or some other rediculous nonsense. To me the motivations felt real and complex. The villians in SM3 are no different.

 

[Venom 1988]

a lot like your post.

Well, Venom's one of spidey's most popular villains. And that's why he's even in this film.

No matter how hard some of you try, you can't cover up and hide that plain as day fact. Venom's a cool villain.

Being popular does not equal being cool.

 

[I_Hate_U_All]

Being popular does not equal being cool.

Oh here it comes, the twisting/winding roller-coaster posts, trying desperately to spin my words into something they're not. gotta love the internet.

I'll say this once and won't repeat myself. The popularity of Venom is UNDENIABLE. That is the reason he is in this film above all the others that could have taken the spot of the third villain. The reason he's popular is... here it comes... get your cameras ready, folks... BECAUSE HE'S A COOL VILLAIN.

Thank you and good night.

 

[Venom 1988]

Oh here it comes, the twisting/winding roller-coaster posts, trying desperately to spin my words into something they're not. gotta love the internet.

I'll say this once and won't repeat myself. The popularity of Venom is UNDENIABLE. That is the reason he is in this film above all the others that could have taken the spot of the third villain. The reason he's popular is... here it comes... get your cameras ready, folks... BECAUSE HE'S A COOL VILLAIN.

Thank you and good night.

Despertly trying to spin your words? You can keep thinking that.
Im not denying thats hes a cool villain, afterall hes my favorite villain. And im not denying that he probably the most popular Spidey villian. Im just saying him being popular is a fact but him being cool is an opinion

 

[The Joker]

bla bla bla. I've read all this a million times... and I'm tired of arguing about how great venom is.

Then stop arguing it, and just accept the fact that some people don't find him to be a cool villain.

No skin off your nose.

You'll see. You'll come out of Spidey 3, thinking of only one character. I Kid you Not.

Yep. And it won't be Venom

One more thing... Venom's unique for the bond he shares with spiderman and also because he's everything spider-man would have been had he not learned uncle ben's lesson about great power and great responsibility.

Wrong.

Venom has no unique bond with Spider-Man. They share nothing in common except similar powers. Venom's only goal is to kill Spider-Man. That's it. Nothing else.

How is that everything Peter would have been if he didn't use great power with great responsibility?? Peter hasn't got a personal beef with anyone whom he blames for ruining his life.

Brock and Parker couldn't be more different. They have nothing in common. At least when Marvel call Doc Ock the evil Peter Parker, you can understand why. They have similar backgrounds and similar interests.

 

[faceplant]

venom IS the main villain, nitwits, he's the main threat.

sandman and goblin were just thrown in there to fill the space in between.

the whole story revolves around the symbiote.

you must be forgetting the first two movies if you think harry is just being "thrown in to fill space". it would seem to me that the whole trilogy revolves around harry and peter. you've got to be kidding me.

 

[XXTBWCXX]

Yep. And it won't be Venom

Actually I'll be thinking of how Venom looked and etc...and I will also be talking about how the symbiote dies (if it dies the same way as in the novel)...but, to me Venom/symbiote, Sandman AND Harry Osborn/New Goblin all have their "leading villain" moments...so, they all are kinda the main villains...Harry, just because to end the Goblin legacy, but then he changes his mind and helps Peter out in the end...Sandman because of his dealings with Uncle Ben and him trying to get forgiveness...and then the symbiote because it takes over Peter and brings out his dark side, then ultimately taking over Eddie to create Venom, which all leads up to that 2 vs. 2 battle at the end...so, just to me and my only opinion, they all are leading villains to help progress this great story to end the trilogy, then leads to only two villains, and then at the end, it's Spider-Man vs. Venom, so in a way, Venom will be the main villain.

P.S. I don't want any arguing about this, AGAIN, I said this is just my opinion...meaning, no smart-a's shouldn't say any stupid crap about what I just said.