Venom could never have been a main villain... think about it.

[CAH]

IMO, SANDMAN is not at all a good main villain. VENOM is.

Sam Raimi has twisted Flint Marko way out of proportion in the film and made him something that he is not, but I respect that in the end...everyone needs redemption sometimes. Sandman, to me, is only good for action/battles. Venom has an actual connection to Parker/Spidey (well, Sandman just HAD to be Ben's killer didn't he?) which makes him MUCH more of a threat, I don't care how much Sandman can grow.

Eddie Brock's life was ruined by Peter Parker, while he was under the influence of the symbiote, and so when Eddie gets the symbiote and becomes Venom, he of course immediately would go after Parker and the ones he loves. Venom is a giant threat to Parker/Spidey...he knows everything about him basically...and IMO, Venom would've been the PERFECT main villain for SM3.

CAH

 

[I_Hate_U_All]

your'e not alone in your thouhts, cah. these people may realize venom's merits as a villain after they see the film one can hope.

 

[ScottishFogg]

He is a side villain for a good reason.

A story of him being the main villain just doesn't have enough substance.

What would happen if the whole movie was just about Venom? 30 minutes of Brock getting jealous of Peter... 30 minutes of the transformation... 30 minutes of Venom terrorizing the city... 30 minutes final battle. That's just not movie material. It's not enough. It sounds too much like a good guy beats the bad guy story. Done too many times. It was already done in Spider-Man 1. People will say, oh it's exactly like what happened in the first movie, Peter struggles, tries to find himself, gets tired of being a hero, etc. etc.

It just couldn't be done.

yet . . . that sounds EXACTLY like the first movie.

 

[not_a_victim]

of COURSE he couldve been the main villain

despite how much i like the first 2, Raimi always manages to fill in the time with seemingly useless, or just plain boring scenes.

"Do you want some cake?"

WTF!?

No, this scene was included to emphasize that Peter could have a perfectly normal life if he left Spider-man behind. It was a metaphor for the "simple life".

 

[not_a_victim]

You must have closed your eyes for the rest of the movie after the bank heist scene. Ock also trashed a cafe, kidnapped MJ, nearly killed a train full of people, and then almost destroyed New York with his reactor of doom.

Wow, how rude, I will attempt to not be so rude in response...
He did the first three things to get ahold of Spider-man in order to get what he needed for his reactor. It's pretty obvious he knew SPider-man could stop the train, because if he died in the attempt, he wouldn't be able to get that stuff from Harry he needed, AND...if he was really interested in killing people, it would have been TOO easy to do in the "If you want Spider-man, you will have to go through me" scene. He also did not throw an occupied vehicle through the cafe window. The only person he was ever exceptionally violent to was Spider-man, and Ock knew Spidey could take the abuse. There is a thing called subtext to movies, and you sometimes have to look at the totality of the character through the entire movie, not just individual scenes.

 

[XXTBWCXX]

IMO, SANDMAN is not at all a good main villain. VENOM is.

Sam Raimi has twisted Flint Marko way out of proportion in the film and made him something that he is not, but I respect that in the end...everyone needs redemption sometimes. Sandman, to me, is only good for action/battles. Venom has an actual connection to Parker/Spidey (well, Sandman just HAD to be Ben's killer didn't he?) which makes him MUCH more of a threat, I don't care how much Sandman can grow.

Eddie Brock's life was ruined by Peter Parker, while he was under the influence of the symbiote, and so when Eddie gets the symbiote and becomes Venom, he of course immediately would go after Parker and the ones he loves. Venom is a giant threat to Parker/Spidey...he knows everything about him basically...and IMO, Venom would've been the PERFECT main villain for SM3.

CAH

Well, to me, Venom is the main villain of Spider-Man 3, and no one can change my mind...the symbiote is the main antagonist, and then Venom becomes the main villain which puts Spidey into extreme levels in their battle. And the only reason Raimi has Sandman ask Peter for forgiveness and then leave with his family is because if they have Venom and Sandman fight, Venom would totally make Sandman his beyotch.

 

[The Joker]

Wow, how rude, I will attempt to not be so rude in response...

How was that rude?? A little friendly sarcasm about closing your eyes to the other stuff with Ock offended you??

You need to develop a thicker skin. I was not trying to be rude. I was trying to point out the absurdity of saying all Ock did in SM-2 was rob a bank. That's all.

He did the first three things to get ahold of Spider-man in order to get what he needed for his reactor.

Yeah, and??

It's pretty obvious he knew SPider-man could stop the train, because if he died in the attempt, he wouldn't be able to get that stuff from Harry he needed

Not at all.

He knew Spider-Man would wear himself out, or die trying to save the train. Ock could have delivered a corpse to Harry, and Harry would have been none the wiser.

Spidey was unconscious when Ock delivered him, anyway. He might as well have been dead. Harry wouldn't have known until it was too late.

AND...if he was really interested in killing people, it would have been TOO easy to do in the "If you want Spider-man, you will have to go through me" scene.

Who said he was interested in killing people?? His goal was not mindless murder. But, he showed no concern for human life at all. He nearly killed Aunt May, three times no less. Dropped her off a building twice, and nearly flattened her and god knows who else, when he hurled the vault door in her direction at the bank.
He showered the innocent bystanders on the street below with huge chunks of debris while fighting Spidey on the side of the building. He hurled a car thru a cafe window, and could have killed anyone with that. Including Peter.
He sped up a train full of people and then ripped the brakes out. He didn't know Spidey would succeed in stopping it. But, he knew he'd bust his ass trying. Hence, why he did it.

Even when his reactor went crazy, both pre accident, and when he was Doc Ock, he refused to shut it down. Even smashed Spidey into a wall when he tried to unplug it. And it cost him his wife's life.

You say Ock wasn't interested in murder. No, that was not his goal. But, he was not against doing it to get what he wanted. If he had to hurt or kill someone to get his way, he did it.

The only person he was ever exceptionally violent to was Spider-man, and Ock knew Spidey could take the abuse.

Oh, really?? I recall three bank guards being tossed half way across the bank, and one even smacking off the balcony. He mercilessly dropped Aunt May off a building, twice no less. He tossed train passengers off the train. He smashed them all aside when they tried to protect Spidey, one of them even went smashing thru a window. He tossed Peter into a brick wall when he tried to give him attitude about daring to hurt MJ. When MJ tried to sneak up and attack Ock from behind with a piece of wood, he smacked her away.

Ock was violent to alot more people than just Spidey. Of course, Spidey was the only one who recieved excess physical punishment from Ock, because he's the only one who stood in Ock's way, and the only one who could endure it. Same with Green Goblin. Nobody can withstand their physical strength like Spidey can. Hence, why he recieves more punishment than anyone else.

I don't really know why you brought this point up. It goes for any super villain. And, not just in the movies, but in the comics, too.

There is a thing called subtext to movies, and you sometimes have to look at the totality of the character through the entire movie, not just individual scenes.

Absolutely. I suggest you do that with SM-2. Because, you seemed to have missed alot regarding Ock. Again, I'm not trying to be rude. Just being honest, that's all.

Please don't take offence.

 

[XXTBWCXX]

I think Doc Ock won.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

IMO, SANDMAN is not at all a good main villain. VENOM is.

Sam Raimi has twisted Flint Marko way out of proportion in the film and made him something that he is not, but I respect that in the end...everyone needs redemption sometimes. Sandman, to me, is only good for action/battles. Venom has an actual connection to Parker/Spidey (well, Sandman just HAD to be Ben's killer didn't he?) which makes him MUCH more of a threat, I don't care how much Sandman can grow.

Eddie Brock's life was ruined by Peter Parker, while he was under the influence of the symbiote, and so when Eddie gets the symbiote and becomes Venom, he of course immediately would go after Parker and the ones he loves. Venom is a giant threat to Parker/Spidey...he knows everything about him basically...and IMO, Venom would've been the PERFECT main villain for SM3.

CAH

Venom would have been a perfect main villian in spidey3. but IMO, either way is great. considering that we will get the same amount of Sandman as Eddie Brock or maybe even he has more screentime than Sandman. quite frankly if Venom was the main villian in this film then that would be absoloutley fantastic but since Sandman is the main villian, it is still going to be an awesome movie no matter what. and besides, Sam love's Sandman so of course he was going to be the main villian. now do I have a problem with that? not at all. to be honest, Eddie Brock has load's of screen time making it so that his role in this film isn't small which prove's that he is defenitley not a primary Villian so to speak. not to mention that even though Venom doesn't have alot of screen time, his popularity and overall coolness will make us not worry too much about him not being the main villian. though in a future spidey sequal I will like to see him as the main Villian of the film.

 

[not_a_victim]

How was that rude?? A little friendly sarcasm about closing your eyes to the other stuff with Ock offended you??

You need to develop a thicker skin. I was not trying to be rude. I was trying to point out the absurdity of saying all Ock did in SM-2 was rob a bank. That's all.



Yeah, and??



Not at all.

He knew Spider-Man would wear himself out, or die trying to save the train. Ock could have delivered a corpse to Harry, and Harry would have been none the wiser.

Spidey was unconscious when Ock delivered him, anyway. He might as well have been dead. Harry wouldn't have known until it was too late.



Who said he was interested in killing people?? His goal was not mindless murder. But, he showed no concern for human life at all. He nearly killed Aunt May, three times no less. Dropped her off a building twice, and nearly flattened her and god knows who else, when he hurled the vault door in her direction at the bank.
He showered the innocent bystanders on the street below with huge chunks of debris while fighting Spidey on the side of the building. He hurled a car thru a cafe window, and could have killed anyone with that. Including Peter.
He sped up a train full of people and then ripped the brakes out. He didn't know Spidey would succeed in stopping it. But, he knew he'd bust his ass trying. Hence, why he did it.

Even when his reactor went crazy, both pre accident, and when he was Doc Ock, he refused to shut it down. Even smashed Spidey into a wall when he tried to unplug it. And it cost him his wife's life.

You say Ock wasn't interested in murder. No, that was not his goal. But, he was not against doing it to get what he wanted. If he had to hurt or kill someone to get his way, he did it.



Oh, really?? I recall three bank guards being tossed half way across the bank, and one even smacking off the balcony. He mercilessly dropped Aunt May off a building, twice no less. He tossed train passengers off the train. He smashed them all aside when they tried to protect Spidey, one of them even went smashing thru a window. He tossed Peter into a brick wall when he tried to give him attitude about daring to hurt MJ. When MJ tried to sneak up and attack Ock from behind with a piece of wood, he smacked her away.

Ock was violent to alot more people than just Spidey. Of course, Spidey was the only one who recieved excess physical punishment from Ock, because he's the only one who stood in Ock's way, and the only one who could endure it. Same with Green Goblin. Nobody can withstand their physical strength like Spidey can. Hence, why he recieves more punishment than anyone else.

I don't really know why you brought this point up. It goes for any super villain. And, not just in the movies, but in the comics, too.



Absolutely. I suggest you do that with SM-2. Because, you seemed to have missed alot regarding Ock. Again, I'm not trying to be rude. Just being honest, that's all.

Please don't take offence.

You give me grief for not detecting sarcasm when you yourself can't detect it?

It's been a while but am I mistaken when I say that Harry wanted Spiderman delivered alive? He had no idea if he was alive or dead when he was delivered, but he grabbed a knife right off the bat...
My point is this...except for Venom (I'm not counting a redeemed Harry, simply because he is redeemed), none of the villians thus far have wanted to actually destroy Spider-man/Parker.
Goblin wanted Spider-man to join him...
Ock really did give a crap about Spider-man, he was just a means to an end..
Sandman is just trying to help his daughter...
Also, in the first two movies, there wasn't any real explicit violence that left teh viewer to presume death, and I think that is the reason the O.R. scene with Ock stood out so much. It just really seemed out of character for the moives.
That brings us to Venom. He simply wants to destroy/kill Parker.
Now, we have two previous movies where no one really wanted to destroy Spiderman, and no one really used any violence above what was needed to commit various crimes. Now we have a villian perfectly willing to use violence simply for the sake of using violence. To say that character could not support a movie as the only villan just doesn't cut it. As they have approached this movie, no it couldn't work, but if the battle between the symbiote and Brock and Parker, it could work.

 

[The Joker]

You give me grief for not detecting sarcasm when you yourself can't detect it?

I hold my hands up, I did not detect any sarcasm in your post. You seemed genuinely annoyed with what I said.

Apologies for not picking it up in your post.

It's been a while but am I mistaken when I say that Harry wanted Spiderman delivered alive? He had no idea if he was alive or dead when he was delivered, but he grabbed a knife right off the bat...

That's right. But, my point was that it really would not matter if Ock delivered him alive or dead. Harry wouldn't know until Ock safely had his tritium.

As soon as he laid Spidey down on the couch, Ock demanded his tritium. It was only after Ock had left with it, Harry picked up the knife.

My point is this...except for Venom (I'm not counting a redeemed Harry, simply because he is redeemed), none of the villians thus far have wanted to actually destroy Spider-man/Parker.
Goblin wanted Spider-man to join him...
Ock really did give a crap about Spider-man, he was just a means to an end..
Sandman is just trying to help his daughter...

Yes, nobody is disputing any of that, either. My point was about Ock, not Venom.

Also, I don't agree with your point about Harry. Whether Harry redeems himself or not, he still wanted to, and tried to kill Peter. It's all he obsessed about.

Also, in the first two movies, there wasn't any real explicit violence that left teh viewer to presume death, and I think that is the reason the O.R. scene with Ock stood out so much. It just really seemed out of character for the moives.

That's not true. You telling me you didn't know Goblin killed those board members when he vaporized them into skeletons?? Or when he bombed the Quest testing site with the army General there??

That brings us to Venom. He simply wants to destroy/kill Parker.
Now, we have two previous movies where no one really wanted to destroy Spiderman, and no one really used any violence above what was needed to commit various crimes. Now we have a villian perfectly willing to use violence simply for the sake of using violence. To say that character could not support a movie as the only villan just doesn't cut it. As they have approached this movie, no it couldn't work, but if the battle between the symbiote and Brock and Parker, it could work.

I think the point others are trying to make regarding that is that Venom only has one goal. Whereas the other villains have goals that take several steps in order to achieve them.

If Venom wants to kill Spidey, he'll just go and find him and try to kill him. Like he does in SM-3. Not alot of planning and screen time needed for that.

Hence why it's debatable as to whether he really could hold a movie as the solo villain if his goal is so simple and not take much to carry out.

 

[not_a_victim]

DOCK OCK:Also, I don't agree with your point about Harry. Whether Harry redeems himself or not, he still wanted to, and tried to kill Peter. It's all he obsessed about
Yes, but I think Harry's realization that killing peter is wrong is juxtaposed with Venom's NOT realizing it. I think the dichotomy is needed, as Harry has been all about revenge for two movies, but he comes to his senses at the end. Venom is only after Parker for one act, but still can't let go of his need to kill.
Edit: Your right, I forgot about GG's viciousness. Good call.

 

[not_a_victim]

Let me try this...
What if the movies had gone this way...
Introduce Brock in SMII. He works with Parker at the Bugle, and they actually get along pretty good. Parker even helps him a little by letting him get some pics of Spidey when he needs extra cash, maybe introduces Brock to Gwen, etc.
As Harry pulls more and more away from Peter, because he resents Peter's apparent friendship with Spidey, Brock and Peter actually get closer as friends, as Peter confides to Brock that his knowledge of Spiderman is ruining his friendship with Harry. Peter and Brock go out for a beer (or I guess a soda, since I don't think they would be 21 in SMII) and they both pledge to not let Spiderman come between their friendship. Pretty hokey, but the point is, Brock and Peter get closer as Peter and Harry grow apart…
Now SMIII. Parker gets the symbiote (Strange, Microsoft Office does not recognize “symbiote” as a word. Am I spelling it wrong?) very early in the film. First ten minutes. We see Parker start his downhill slide, getting more brutal and violent both as Spiderman and as Parker. Brock starts to pull away from Peter just like Harry did; only the symbiote –influenced Peter really doesn’t care. As a matter of fact, Parker starts to sabotage Brock’s work, and starts to steal his girl, Gwen. Brock’s world starts to fall apart, and he blames it on Parker.
Now, Parker has whatever epiphany he has to get the symbiote off him. Cut to the bell tower scene. Brock is there not to pray for Parker’s death, but just for help and guidance. He still sees Parker getting rid of the symbiote, and it still attaches to him, etc.
Brock then tries to become a hero like Parker, using the powers the symbiote gives him. He shows up on Spiderman’s actions, and causes more harm than help, maybe even getting innocents hurt a couple of times. For all intents and purposes, the costume looks pretty much like the black Spiderman costume, maybe with the purple hue to it. Brock tries to rekindle his friendship with Parker, telling him his life is better now that he has the symbiote. Parker tries to tell him to get rid of it, only bad things will come of it.. Brock, showing the early influence of the symbiote, says that Parker is jealous because he (Brock as Venom) is stronger than Parker as Spiderman. Brock’s costume changes as he slips into insanity. The normal, neat webbing starts to get ragged and random, the eyes get bigger and more angled, etc. as the symbiote feeds of his deteriorating mental condition.
Meanwhile, Brock had started to get his life together, but his worsening condition causes him to fall out of favor with the public, etc. He tries one more time to rekindle his romance with Stacey, but she rebukes him, telling him she still has feelings for Parker. (Parker has since went back to MJ, who of course forgives him. She is such an enabler.)
Gwen’s final word on their relationship is the straw that breaks the camels back for Brock. I could even see Brock making a very clumsy (and very PG rated) attempt to force Gwen to kiss him, and this could be the first time we see the Venom tongue…So Brock leaves Gwen’s place, and goes to Parker’s, to one last time try to patch things up. When he gets there, Parker and MJ have obviously just finished a romantic interlude (again, very PG rated). MJ, not realizing what Brock is going through, blurts out that Parker has just proposed, and shows him the ring. With that, Brock looses it, and begins a mental break down in Parker’s apartment. He starts pacing back and forth, ranting about how Peter and Spiderman have cost him everything. He starts to froth at the mouth, with little tendrils of the symbiote creeping up his neck, but he doesn’t notice. Parker and MJ try to tell him to calm down, as they see what Brock can’t. Finally, The symbiote fully takes over, and the throwdown begins. Venom just rants about how Parker and Spiderman have ruined his life, and the epic final battle begins.
Now as a subplot, Harry has been after Parker during the whole movie, with the current GG2 storyline, and his use of the serum, etc. Harry sees his chance to finish Parker off, and joins Venom in the fight. Spidey takes one hell of a butt whipping, but at several points in the fight, has the opportunity to kill Harry, but never does, saying he would never kill his friend. It comes down to Venom about to about to finish Spiderman off, and Harry realizes the error of his ways, and stops the deathblow. Venom lashes out and kills Harry. Spidey takes the opportunity to pin Venom down, and to try to talk some sense into Brock Brock won’t have any of it, and continues to try to kill Spiderman. Spiderman finally gets the symbiote off Brock, but the drain on Brock’s body is too much, and he dies. Brock, however, never sees the error of his ways, and his last words to Parker are that he still hates Parker…
Parker then rushes to Harry’s side, thanking him, etc. Harry dies shortly after making peace with Parker. Parker tells Harry that he is giving up being Spiderman, as it has ruined so much in his life. Harry tells him not to, as that would make it “all for nothing…” This would bring in the redemption of Harry, and show that some people can’t be redeemed…
Anyway, that is how I think Venom could be the main villain, AND keep Harry in the story, but it would have had to start with SMII.

 

[Cmill216]

The "Enter" button is your friend.

 

[not_a_victim]

The "Enter" button is your friend.

It looked better on the Word page I made it on...

 

[Spade]

Another thing to think about is Venom's look. If Venom was a main villain throughout the film and they had to rush his appearance like they did with the Green Goblin to get things done on time he would be purple, possibly sporting no emblem at all, and with a very small mouth devoid of teeth and tongue- remember the concepts that show him with a human mouth and just the webbing as seen in the leaked Art of SM3 pic, or the recent blog? And that's not mentioning that the raised webbing would be the only prominent thing on him, or that he would be firing his webbing nontraditionally. Now, imagine that being your Venom experience for the entire film. I'm not talking about even the Venom toy design. Just how the leaked production pics showed him to be early on, in what later became a pre-CG look and scrapped as the true look later on altogether only to be shown in one brief flash. Would you like movie Venom to be compared to Barney forever?

If you think about it, it's probably better his screentime is relatively limited to the finale. It gave Raimi time to take his concept and merge it with a more platable look.

 

[TheVileOne]

You know something. Fans *****ed, moaned and complained for a villain that wasn't a mad scientist or a lab accident. For a villain that wasn't redeemable and was just psycho and evil.

You are finally getting it this time in Venom and the symbiote. So . . . what's the damage?

 

[Spade]

You know something. Fans *****ed, moaned and complained for a villain that wasn't a mad scientist or a lab accident. For a villain that wasn't redeemable and was just psycho and evil.

You are finally getting it this time in Venom and the symbiote. So . . . what's the damage?

People expect perfection. Truth be told, outside of an internet forum I've never heard complaints like "why does he have organic webshooters" or "Norman looks like a Power Ranger". However, I also haven't heard complaints about Ock's portrayl. I suppose that in the end the fans are the ones with the only thing to "lose", if "lose" is the strong term one wants to use here. No one else really has anything riding on this. Most people are going to Spider-Man 3 to see Peter Parker's next exciting adventure.

The biggest issue with Venom is that you have two portrayls of the same person- the villainous feel originally created, and the anti-hero persona made when Marvel realized they couldn't kill off such a popular character in the 90's. Most people are just looking for the anti-hero persona because it means he'll live another day, which is where the "damage" is coming from for some: a Venom who is villainous to the end will get what is coming to him if Raimi's helming this film. Some fans would rather an entire film go by with Brock seen with duplicity not unlike Doc Ock if it means he lives to fight another day. The film and novelization's ending clearly show that it's a bleak hope.

Hence all the fervor about every little detail- this is essentially the only time we're going to see him in a franchise that has been going great to this point and that will be great with SM3 with or without the inclusion of Venom. Might as well go out with a bang. Rather have a cocktail with a hot chick at the end of the party than a whiskey sour with the girl who looks good after 6 more shots, if you get what I'm saying.

 

[TheVileOne]

Makes perfect sense to me.

This was something that X-men 3 failed to do.

 

[Visionary]

Makes a lot of sense to me too.

 

[not_a_victim]

Another thing to think about is Venom's look. If Venom was a main villain throughout the film and they had to rush his appearance like they did with the Green Goblin to get things done on time he would be purple, possibly sporting no emblem at all, and with a very small mouth devoid of teeth and tongue- remember the concepts that show him with a human mouth and just the webbing as seen in the leaked Art of SM3 pic, or the recent blog? And that's not mentioning that the raised webbing would be the only prominent thing on him, or that he would be firing his webbing nontraditionally. Now, imagine that being your Venom experience for the entire film. I'm not talking about even the Venom toy design. Just how the leaked production pics showed him to be early on, in what later became a pre-CG look and scrapped as the true look later on altogether only to be shown in one brief flash. Would you like movie Venom to be compared to Barney forever?

If you think about it, it's probably better his screentime is relatively limited to the finale. It gave Raimi time to take his concept and merge it with a more platable look.

I didn't realize that GG's appearance was the result of rushed film-making. It goes to show what delaying a movie (I'm talking initial production, not final polishing) by even a short amount of time will do to the quality of the product.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Let me try this...
What if the movies had gone this way...
Introduce Brock in SMII. He works with Parker at the Bugle, and they actually get along pretty good. Parker even helps him a little by letting him get some pics of Spidey when he needs extra cash, maybe introduces Brock to Gwen, etc.
As Harry pulls more and more away from Peter, because he resents Peter's apparent friendship with Spidey, Brock and Peter actually get closer as friends, as Peter confides to Brock that his knowledge of Spiderman is ruining his friendship with Harry. Peter and Brock go out for a beer (or I guess a soda, since I don't think they would be 21 in SMII) and they both pledge to not let Spiderman come between their friendship. Pretty hokey, but the point is, Brock and Peter get closer as Peter and Harry grow apart…
Now SMIII. Parker gets the symbiote (Strange, Microsoft Office does not recognize “symbiote” as a word. Am I spelling it wrong?) very early in the film. First ten minutes. We see Parker start his downhill slide, getting more brutal and violent both as Spiderman and as Parker. Brock starts to pull away from Peter just like Harry did; only the symbiote –influenced Peter really doesn’t care. As a matter of fact, Parker starts to sabotage Brock’s work, and starts to steal his girl, Gwen. Brock’s world starts to fall apart, and he blames it on Parker.
Now, Parker has whatever epiphany he has to get the symbiote off him. Cut to the bell tower scene. Brock is there not to pray for Parker’s death, but just for help and guidance. He still sees Parker getting rid of the symbiote, and it still attaches to him, etc.
Brock then tries to become a hero like Parker, using the powers the symbiote gives him. He shows up on Spiderman’s actions, and causes more harm than help, maybe even getting innocents hurt a couple of times. For all intents and purposes, the costume looks pretty much like the black Spiderman costume, maybe with the purple hue to it. Brock tries to rekindle his friendship with Parker, telling him his life is better now that he has the symbiote. Parker tries to tell him to get rid of it, only bad things will come of it.. Brock, showing the early influence of the symbiote, says that Parker is jealous because he (Brock as Venom) is stronger than Parker as Spiderman. Brock’s costume changes as he slips into insanity. The normal, neat webbing starts to get ragged and random, the eyes get bigger and more angled, etc. as the symbiote feeds of his deteriorating mental condition.
Meanwhile, Brock had started to get his life together, but his worsening condition causes him to fall out of favor with the public, etc. He tries one more time to rekindle his romance with Stacey, but she rebukes him, telling him she still has feelings for Parker. (Parker has since went back to MJ, who of course forgives him. She is such an enabler.)
Gwen’s final word on their relationship is the straw that breaks the camels back for Brock. I could even see Brock making a very clumsy (and very PG rated) attempt to force Gwen to kiss him, and this could be the first time we see the Venom tongue…So Brock leaves Gwen’s place, and goes to Parker’s, to one last time try to patch things up. When he gets there, Parker and MJ have obviously just finished a romantic interlude (again, very PG rated). MJ, not realizing what Brock is going through, blurts out that Parker has just proposed, and shows him the ring. With that, Brock looses it, and begins a mental break down in Parker’s apartment. He starts pacing back and forth, ranting about how Peter and Spiderman have cost him everything. He starts to froth at the mouth, with little tendrils of the symbiote creeping up his neck, but he doesn’t notice. Parker and MJ try to tell him to calm down, as they see what Brock can’t. Finally, The symbiote fully takes over, and the throwdown begins. Venom just rants about how Parker and Spiderman have ruined his life, and the epic final battle begins.
Now as a subplot, Harry has been after Parker during the whole movie, with the current GG2 storyline, and his use of the serum, etc. Harry sees his chance to finish Parker off, and joins Venom in the fight. Spidey takes one hell of a butt whipping, but at several points in the fight, has the opportunity to kill Harry, but never does, saying he would never kill his friend. It comes down to Venom about to about to finish Spiderman off, and Harry realizes the error of his ways, and stops the deathblow. Venom lashes out and kills Harry. Spidey takes the opportunity to pin Venom down, and to try to talk some sense into Brock Brock won’t have any of it, and continues to try to kill Spiderman. Spiderman finally gets the symbiote off Brock, but the drain on Brock’s body is too much, and he dies. Brock, however, never sees the error of his ways, and his last words to Parker are that he still hates Parker…
Parker then rushes to Harry’s side, thanking him, etc. Harry dies shortly after making peace with Parker. Parker tells Harry that he is giving up being Spiderman, as it has ruined so much in his life. Harry tells him not to, as that would make it “all for nothing…” This would bring in the redemption of Harry, and show that some people can’t be redeemed…
Anyway, that is how I think Venom could be the main villain, AND keep Harry in the story, but it would have had to start with SMII.

true, but Brock wouldn't get a great amount of screentime in spidey2 due to the fact that there was Ock's origin and peter losing his power's. so I think it was better that he was introduced in SM3 because there is a great deal of screen time available for him because this film is mostly about the symbiote and how it take's over. in fact there are plenty of way's that Venom could have been the main villian, but I think one of the reason's sandman was the main villian was because he has a big connection with the death of uncle ben. not to mention that the death of uncle ben is a huge thing not only in the film's but all through the spidey comic's. your observation was good but I just don't think that would happen in a such a good manor. too many thing's would be going on in spidey2 making it so that Brock's screentime might indeed be lowered down just to a cameo appearance. Quite frankly, Eddie Brock's story should stay the way it is and tell eddie brock's story all through this film and toward's the end he get's the symbiote. that's just the way I see it though, if they did it in SM1 then Brock's appearance would be just cameo due to the simple fact that there was more than one origin to tell.

 

[dodus]

The biggest issue with Venom is that you have two portrayls of the same person- the villainous feel originally created, and the anti-hero persona made when Marvel realized they couldn't kill off such a popular character in the 90's. Most people are just looking for the anti-hero persona because it means he'll live another day, which is where the "damage" is coming from for some: a Venom who is villainous to the end will get what is coming to him if Raimi's helming this film. Some fans would rather an entire film go by with Brock seen with duplicity not unlike Doc Ock if it means he lives to fight another day. The film and novelization's ending clearly show that it's a bleak hope.

I don't think everyone here wants Venom spread over several movies or coming back as an anti-hero, etc. I'm totally down with a Venom who is evil, irredeemable, and gets the axe by the end of the movie. I'm just trying to make the point that he could be the main villain.

 

[Dragon]

The real problem with making VENOM the main villain is that without establishing Eddie and the symbiote you can't have Venom. And would take- As we see with Spidey 3 the first two acts out of three to establish those elements on top of which- again- we have to focus primarily on Peter.

This isn't like comics where you can do an issue or two with the main character in the background or even absent altogether. Peter, and his experience always has to take precedence over the villain/supporting characters. The only way Venom could be a main villain is if he was brought back in a subsequent film after being established in 3.

 

[Hack and Slash]

Venom may never be a main villian in spidey 3 provided he has like 10 to 15 mins of screen time. Sandman is not a good main villian too .