WandaVision WandaVision: Season 1, Episode 6 "All-New Halloween Spooktacular!" (spoilers)

[Flash525]

in order for mutants to exist in the MCU, they’ll have to come into being. They can’t always exist, because that’s a contradiction with earlier films. This is just the hand that the MCU has been dealt.

How does it contradict earlier films? Why can't they come into being?

Mutants existing doesn't really contradict anything...

SHIELD has existed for quite some time, so it's possible that any known mutants have been contained by SHIELD somehow. It's only in contradiction for the viewer because we can ask the question of where have they been all this time? The biggest contradiction would be the likes of Xavier and Magneto; these guys are going to have to be elders I'd think, rather than just emerging.

There was a theory running around some time ago that Charles was just hiding the existence of mutants with his abilities, but I'll honestly feel as though that's a cheap explanation if it is indeed used.

It makes me wonder when all this is said and done, if she's going to have issues being an Avenger after this. Like, she might feel unworthy because she lets her powers/emotions get the best of her here.

I can see that too, and in some way, it's good. I feel as though the Avengers need to be powered down just a little for their next appearance. If Carol, Thor and Wanda are active, there's practically no use for anyone else as between them they can practically deal with all threats.

The exception (for the moment at least) is that Thor and Carol are off world. They can't just drop in the second they feel like it (except maybe Thor; I'm not entirely sure what his new hammer is capable of in terms of interplanetary travel, it's got to have it's limitations else he'd not have the need to travel on a space ship.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I wonder if the secret character is whoever Nathan Fillion is playing...

Where did you hear Fillion is supposed to be in this?

Mutants existing doesn't really contradict anything...

SHIELD has existed for quite some time, so it's possible that any known mutants have been contained by SHIELD somehow. It's only in contradiction for the viewer because we can ask the question of where have they been all this time? The biggest contradiction would be the likes of Xavier and Magneto; these guys are going to have to be elders I'd think, rather than just emerging.

There was a theory running around some time ago that Charles was just hiding the existence of mutants with his abilities, but I'll honestly feel as though that's a cheap explanation if it is indeed used.

I mean, where were the mutants between Namor's first adventure in 1939 and the X-Men's first appearance in 1963? Do we need more explanation than we got then?

 

[GuestStar2004]

Where did you hear Fillion is supposed to be in this?

I mean, where were the mutants between Namor's first adventure in 1939 and the X-Men's first appearance in 1963? Do we need more explanation than we got then?

Truth be told you probably can't have mutants having always existed. they will have to be created present day. alot of the backstories won't be able to be used. they will have to be modernised and in so changed.

Infact MCU X-MEN would probably be the most modern of today interpretation with more than enough liberties taken to justify their existence and purpose in the MCU.

 

[Iceman]

It's going to happen in the film, Kevin Feige all but confirmed she's going to fully come into her role and place as The Scarlet Witch in Multiverse of Madness

Oh nice, didn’t know that. Can’t wait. It’s going to be so good seeing 2 well matches favourites and powerhouses alongside each other in MoM.

 

[ernesth100]

Having mutants already exist can be easily explained as them just discovering the X-Gene creates some supers.

We already have supers with multiple unknown and known origins in the MCU. It's easy to say a scientist finally isolated the gene and is now making it public they have the cure for supers.

This can be backed up by the Sokovia Accords which I don't think are abolished and actually given Wanda's actions might be expanded.

Then they can use the discovery of the X-gene to make sentinels or their own mutants or whatever the MCU route is gonna be. But it's easy to have them already have been there.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Having mutants already exist can be easily explained as them just discovering the X-Gene creates some supers.

We already have supers with multiple unknown and known origins in the MCU. It's easy to say a scientist finally isolated the gene and is now making it public they have the cure for supers.

This can be backed up by the Sokovia Accords which I don't think are abolished and actually given Wanda's actions might be expanded.

Then they can use the discovery of the X-gene to make sentinels or their own mutants or whatever the MCU route is gonna be. But it's easy to have them already have been there.

No matter what though, you can't really say they always existed, because if they had it would have been public knowledge by now. if a population of people were walking around with Super powers for decades it would probably get noticed.

Thing about Mutants in the MCU is that this is a universe thats got Gods, wizards, possibly inhumans still, aliens, spider-men, people wearing tech suits, hulks, and various other things walking around on earth. Mutants won't quite stand out the same way they would in a universe without other heroes.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Truth be told you probably can't have mutants having always existed. they will have to be created present day.

But why? Like I said, there were 24 years and at least thousads of stories between the start of the 616 universe and its first mention of mutants. What makes it so that they can't have existed in the MCU with 13 years and way fewer stories?

Even in FOX X-Men mutants had already existed for decades (Magneto origin clip in X1) or even centuries (Apocalypse) and on some level become prominent in their own communities decades ago (First Class), and yet in X1 congress still has to be informed and briefed about the appearances of mutants. At that point they're even stated to be "in the beginning of another stage of human evolution", and Kelly asks why they're 'hiding'. I don't see why we can't be at that stage of mutant development that they were in during X1 right now in the MCU?

No matter what though, you can't really say they always existed, because if they had it would have been public knowledge by now. if a population of people were walking around with Super powers for decades it would probably get noticed or advanced technology.

Thing about Mutants in the MCU is that this is a universe thats got Gods, wizards, possibly inhumans still, aliens, spider-men, people wearing tech suits, hulks, and various other things walking around on earth. Mutants won't quite stand out the same way they would in a universe without other heroes.

If aything all these other origins for powered people existing would probably make it much harder to identify mutants, since they may just be assumed to be something else. Much easier to say your mutant ability was the result of some freak accident.

 

[kguillou]

Monica’s mystery friend has to be a significant marvel character, the way theyve been building this guy up for two episodes, theyre clearly telling fans, “get ready we’re about to introduce someone big into this universe,” and i dont think having it be Blue Marvel would have any sort of impact. Its gotta be a heavy hitter like Richards otherwise why build the mystery?

 

[GuestStar2004]

Even in FOX X-Men mutants had already existed for decades (Magneto origin clip in X1) or even centuries (Apocalypse) and on some level become prominent in their own communities decades ago (First Class), and yet in X1 congress still has to be informed and briefed about the appearances of mutants. At that point they're even stated to be "in the beginning of another stage of human evolution", and Kelly asks why they're 'hiding'. I don't see why we can't be at that stage of mutant development that they were in during X1 right now in the MCU?

With Fox's X-Men though, there were no other heroes around. it was just mutants and regular people. obviously, mutants could have been a hidden myth for years. you could say historical mysteries were because of mutants and no one knew, because they could never let themselves known. obviously by like the 1950-1960s when the world starts to have open movements and be more aware of whats going on around them. tv and radio, pop culture, a lot of crazy stuff. which mutants were created as an allegory for discrimination. Race, Gender, sexuality. those that were discriminated upon but desired to be accepted. the fear of knowing you are different.

With the MCU when it comes down to it. they kinda already have a populated universe. this universe has so much stuff in it that even the characters are asking each other which breed of super-powered character they are. are you a god? wizard? does that suit give you powers? ohhh you got bitten by a radioactive hamster, that explains it.

With Mutants you could say oh the X-gene has kicked in over the last decade, but with the MCU its just a different world. its such a different world that feels like it needs an on switch to get things going. and then everyone kinda has to gel with the MCU rather then act like X-MEN live in a world of their own.

 

[divan]

In the original X-Films, it's implied mutants only started appearing en masse (to the point governments took notice) in the early 2000s. Wolverine, Magneto, Professor X existed before, but they were subtle enough in their efforts that few people (like Stryker) noticed. Even in First Class, grown-up mutants in the 60s are implied to be not that common, given that not even the US or the URSS knew about their existence (it's only in the DOFP's New Timeline that the world knows about mutants early, and that's because Magneto gets funny ideas after learning about the Sentinel future).

I don't see why the MCU can't be similar (moving the timeline of the mutant super-baby boom about 10 years into the future, give or take) especially given that, in the MCU, some mutants could simply be easily confused for "people with powers". To give a current example, in the months before COVID-19 was immediately identified, some people already had symptoms that were said to come from a very "aggressive flu". They possibly had COVID but we didn't call it COVID because we didn't know what that was. So some SHIELD or CIA agent meets Wolverine in the 70s but thinks he's just some experiment ala Captain America or someone sees young Cyclops develping powers in the 2010s but thinks it's somthing random like that Spider-Man from YouTube. Then more and more people developing seemingly random powers start appearing, until one day, a scientist tests one of the people and finds a gene. Then tests others and finds the same gene. Calls it the "X-Gene". Then it's clear these aren't accidental or artificial superpowers, but something that will happen to anyone with the X-Gene, and more and more people are starting to have it. And thus, these particular group are started to be identified as mutants. Professor X, Wolverine, Charles and the rest would be what they've mostly always have been: anomalies, some mutants that, for whatever reason just happened to be born in an earlier (and smaller) baby boom.

 

[metaphysician]

I think there's a limit to how much Wanda's energy bubble can encompass; and thus far, it's just the townspeople of Westview and its recent visitors that remain in its scope. Point being, if this mutant theory ultimately pans out, it'd have to mean that the gene is somehow transmissible. So, yeah... not a fan of that explanation myself. lol

My current suspicion: expanding the bubble was *not* good for Wanda, and not something she could/would have done without a literal "Vision's life is on the line" situation. Which is to say, the Big Bad *almost* has what he wants, and thus almost doesn't need Wanda anymore.

 

[Professor S]

Not sure if it means anything deeper, but when Wanda is talking to Herb, he’s relating events before they happen, and not after (I.e. he says the candy bus all gone, then Pietro steals the candy). The writers are doing a heckuva job making the audience discern real clues from just fake reality flubs.

 

[MaceB]

How does it contradict earlier films? Why can't they come into being?

they can come into being. That’s the only way to do it... for them to come into being through some contrived event.

the opportunity to make mutants an organic, natural event is no longer available. Like.... oh this mutant evolution has suddenly sprung up where hundreds are suddenly around... you know... just because. Very convenient and no explanation necessary. Super humans exist in this world, and now there’s just a lot of them because of sudden, unexplained mutation. That won’t work.

there needs to be an event that brings mutants into this world. Otherwise, it’d be even more convenient, more cartoonish. Where were they this whole time? Is Logan and cyclops gonna be babies or were they all just conveniently in hiding? It doesn’t work.

and also.... since we’ve now created a scenario in which mutants are a new phenomenon and not a natural part of this world... the whole civil rights, discrimination aspect of mutants becomes difficult too. The mutants of the MCU universe are going to look different than the mutants of the comics. They have to.

 

[Kev4000]

I noticed Pietro laughing a little bit with the compare of Wanda being a Red Riding Hood is suspicious:

In that fairytale she want to visit her grandmother and met a evil wolve in the forrest. He starts a conversation with him, asking questions to get some information from her and distracting her with a beautiful flower field. While Red Riding Hood is distracted the evil wolve dresses up as someone else.

The irony of that innocent compare by the kids with Wanda being Red Riding Hood and Pietro (?) being actually the wolve would be very clever.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I think the Red Riding Hood thing was just a joke at the costume.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

there needs to be an event that brings mutants into this world. Otherwise, it’d be even more convenient, more cartoonish. Where were they this whole time? Is Logan and cyclops gonna be babies or were they all just conveniently in hiding? It doesn’t work.

I just don't get how the MCU is any different from any previous versions of those characters though? Was Logan conveniently hiding in the MCU? I don't know, was he conveniently hiding before he first appeared in the Incredible Hulk comics in the 1970s despite canonically being around since the 19th century? Was he hiding in the FoX-Men universe when we first met him in the 2000s and nobody knew who he was despite him developing his powers nearly 200 years before? Why is the MCU different from that?

 

[Web-Head]

I got a little scrubs vibes as well with Billy and Tommy when someone says something, the other watch in the air like a daydream and remembering about it. I really hope they do the modern family opening somehow next week.

To Pietro: I think Wanda was skeptical about all the questions he asked and with the line "Your dead husband cant die twice" I doubt they dont trust him more. I was very happy she kicked his ass here.

No, that was a big thing in Malcolm in the Middle as well.

I think the song writers said they didn't really watch sitcoms in the 90s because they were in college or something and didn't have time. They found writing a theme for the 90s the most difficult era whereas they didn't even have to research the 70s or 80s. I don't know if that's part of why they even skipped over a more 90s theme song. This sounds more like punk pop from the 2000s.

They could've also referenced Sabrina the Teenage Witch since that was mostly a 90s show and would've been appropriate.

The theme was literally Malcolm in the Middle. Would I have liked to have seen more of a 90's ode in this episode, but it is what it is.

 

[Marvolo]

Who's to say mutants don't exist as is but they're not as common? This doesn't mean that mutants suddenly exist, they're in hiding or have been hiding their powers.. Maybe the murant gene exists in a lot of people but its dormant and Wanda just unlocks it.

I think it makes sense, still allows Logan and Magneto to keep their origins and still allows for Apocalypse to exist.

I prefer the Blip theory. Wanda's powers were activated by a single stone. Imagine what 6 stones could have done to the bodies of the trillions Thanos and Hulk snapped out of and back into existence. All that cosmic energy could have caused mutations or unlocked dormant genes in some of those people.

 

[Zarex]

I don't believe we have seen Vision used his "Never seen before in the comics or in the movies" super speed since the twins were born. Maybe Wanda (or whoever is REALLY controlling the Hex) moved those abilities over to Tommy and Pietro when they were cast in the show.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Ha, what’s that? Sorry, I didn’t get it.

Oh, your phrasing the other day ("getting further and further into the mystery") just reminded me of the comic title in which Thor made his very first appearance: Journey into Mystery #83. Couldn't resist the nerdy reference. lol

 

[TheVileOne]

they can come into being. That’s the only way to do it... for them to come into being through some contrived event.

the opportunity to make mutants an organic, natural event is no longer available. Like.... oh this mutant evolution has suddenly sprung up where hundreds are suddenly around... you know... just because. Very convenient and no explanation necessary. Super humans exist in this world, and now there’s just a lot of them because of sudden, unexplained mutation. That won’t work.

there needs to be an event that brings mutants into this world. Otherwise, it’d be even more convenient, more cartoonish. Where were they this whole time? Is Logan and cyclops gonna be babies or were they all just conveniently in hiding? It doesn’t work.

and also.... since we’ve now created a scenario in which mutants are a new phenomenon and not a natural part of this world... the whole civil rights, discrimination aspect of mutants becomes difficult too. The mutants of the MCU universe are going to look different than the mutants of the comics. They have to.

Respectfully, I don't think that's the only way.

 

[Lip]

- What happened to your accent?
- What happened to yours?

Lizzie's face was the funniest part.

 

[Iceman]

Oh, your phrasing the other day ("getting further and further into the mystery") just reminded me of the comic title in which Thor made his very first appearance: Journey into Mystery #83. Couldn't resist the nerdy reference. lol

Ah, nice one.

 

[MaceB]

Respectfully, I don't think that's the only way.

im open to any proposals on how you’d make it feel natural and authentic.

 

[SpocksBrain]

But why? Like I said, there were 24 years and at least thousads of stories between the start of the 616 universe and its first mention of mutants. What makes it so that they can't have existed in the MCU with 13 years and way fewer stories?

Even in FOX X-Men mutants had already existed for decades (Magneto origin clip in X1) or even centuries (Apocalypse) and on some level become prominent in their own communities decades ago (First Class), and yet in X1 congress still has to be informed and briefed about the appearances of mutants. At that point they're even stated to be "in the beginning of another stage of human evolution", and Kelly asks why they're 'hiding'. I don't see why we can't be at that stage of mutant development that they were in during X1 right now in the MCU?


If aything all these other origins for powered people existing would probably make it much harder to identify mutants, since they may just be assumed to be something else. Much easier to say your mutant ability was the result of some freak accident.

Exactly. I think it is preferable for mutants to have always existed, but just in very small numbers, and for their existence to have been kept secret. Just like it had been secret up until a short time before the first X-Men movie and just like it had been secret in First Class until they revealed themselves to the world in that film.

As you said, just basically treat it in the MCU similar to how they did in the first X-Men film. In that movie the mutant phenomenon was something of which the general population was just beginning to become aware. The MCU can say that their numbers were very few and those who developed abilities hid them, or were hidden by others, from the world. Those that physically looked different would just be though of as “freaks”.

After the use of the Infinity Gauntlet on Earth the number of mutants begin to increase. During the 5 years between Infinity War and Endgame the mutant population continued to expand and efforts to keep their existence a secret have become more difficult due to the increase in numbers. And that would bring us into “modern day” 2023/2024 when their existence is revealed.

That’s the way I’d go with it. It’s simple and clean and similar to what has already been done in the previous franchise where it was established that Mutants existed for a long time secretly before their existence was revealed to the general public. And it leverages a major event in MCU history as a catalyst for the sudden increase in their numbers.

In other incarnations (comics and/or films), hadn’t it been stated or speculated that the “atomic age” was thought to have been a reason for the increase of the mutant population in the 20th century?