Superman Returns Was Superman Really Out of Character in SR?

[El Payaso]

I just the fact that people are having this huge argument, it proves Singer`s Superman wasnt good. I dont see people complaining like that about Superman for all seasons or Kingdom Come. A GREAT Superman story should unite every fan, not split them in 2.

THE MOVIE JUST WASNT GOOD ENOUGH OR WORTH THE WAIT AND THIS IS WHAT SUCKS TO ME AS A FAN.

Uh... inability to recognise a good movie makes it automatically a bad movie? Hello?

 

[SuperDaniel]

Those are highly regarded as one the best Superman stories ever written. When i went to the theater, this is what i expected as a fan. Why should`ve i expect anything less?

Its just that Superman is my ****ING FAVORITE CHARACTER of all time. I JUST know when i see or read a great story about him This has nothing to do with generations. I`m open to a lot of interpretations of Superman. I love pre-crisis and i love post-crisis. Each period has great stories.

Its not that i dindt like the movie for this and that. I`m not even THAT picky. I even thought the costue worked on the movie.

I just didnt think the movie was WORTH the wait or WORTH of the character of Superman. To me the character is just WAAAAAAY more thant what was presented in SR. It was just too narrow minded and foccused on just one version of Superman. Singer made a movie for himself and that was the BIGGEST problem of SR.

I cant stand Spacey`s Luthor or this particular version of the character. You know, i could seriously forget all the problems that we`ve been discussing in this thread if Singer gave us Luthor with LexCorp and the saviour of Metropolis. IT WAS JUST THE BEST TIME TO DO THAT. Superman`s gone for 5 years, he returns, everything is different. I just expected more than a rehash of the old movie.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Uh... inability to recognise a good movie makes it automatically a bad movie? Hello?

Inability to recognize a bad movie makies it automatically a good movie? Hello?

 

[El Payaso]

Inability to recognize a bad movie makies it automatically a good movie? Hello?

No, the fact is good makes it good.

You see, you were the one claiming that dissapointed fans are some kind of evidence of quality. Which is frankly a baseless thing to say.

 

[SuperDaniel]

WHy? I dont remember people being disappointed with STM or the animated series. Or the best episodes of Lois & Clark or many stories from the comics.

 

[Angeloz]

Those are highly regarded as one the best Superman stories ever written. When i went to the theater, this is what i expected as a fan. Why should`ve i expect anything less?

Its just that Superman is my ****ING FAVORITE CHARACTER of all time. I JUST know when i see or read a great story about him This has nothing to do with generations. I`m open to a lot of interpretations of Superman. I love pre-crisis and i love post-crisis. Each period has great stories.

Its not that i dindt like the movie for this and that. I`m not even THAT picky. I even thought the costue worked on the movie.

I just didnt think the movie was WORTH the wait or WORTH of the character of Superman. To me the character is just WAAAAAAY more thant what was presented in SR. It was just too narrow minded and foccused on just one version of Superman. Singer made a movie for himself and that was the BIGGEST problem of SR.

I cant stand Spacey`s Luthor or this particular version of the character. You know, i could seriously forget all the problems that we`ve been discussing in this thread if Singer gave us Luthor with LexCorp and the saviour of Metropolis. IT WAS JUST THE BEST TIME TO DO THAT. Superman`s gone for 5 years, he returns, everything is different. I just expected more than a rehash of the old movie.

Then it sounds like you had too high expectations and a preferred version (at least of Lex). I tried not to have high expectations even though the clips looked good (I went in skeptical and a little cynical 'cos I remember the last cinema release). So it exceeded my expectations. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.

Angeloz

 

[El Payaso]

WHy? I dont remember people being disappointed with STM or the animated series. Or the best episodes of Lois & Clark or many stories from the comics.

And what does that prove and why?

As far as we can see, it proves popularity.

 

[Angeloz]

WHy? I dont remember people being disappointed with STM or the animated series. Or the best episodes of Lois & Clark or many stories from the comics.

There was no internet with the first film. So no whingeing. There was for "Lois & Clark" but I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't on any forums back then. I wasn't. So that's why. They're old news and only those that like them would want to discuss them. Out of mind out of sight.

Angeloz

 

[SuperDaniel]

There`s internet today and i dont see people complaing about them so whats your point?

 

[El Payaso]

There`s internet today and i dont see people complaing about them so whats your point?

That a movie's quality has no link with what people complains or not about on the net.
What's yours exactly?

 

[SuperDaniel]

My point is that they are just better than Singer`s movie and its a shame. Because this was the movie that was chosen to be made after all the production hell.

 

[El Payaso]

My point is that they are just better than Singer`s transvesty.

Based on?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I just the fact that people are having this huge argument, it proves Singer`s Superman wasnt good. I dont see people complaining like that about Superman for all seasons or Kingdom Come. A GREAT Superman story should unite every fan, not split them in 2.

THE MOVIE JUST WASNT GOOD ENOUGH OR WORTH THE WAIT AND THIS IS WHAT SUCKS TO ME AS A FAN.

If it wasnt so good why does it always do well in polls on this website? or why does it have a great rating on sites like Amazon.co.uk? Or why did the critics love it?

 

[Angeloz]

There`s internet today and i dont see people complaing about them so whats your point?

As I said they're old news. So the people that watch them like them. Unless you watch shows and films you hate? Now if they were on today believe me people would be complaining about them. Especially "Lois & Clark" as it did have some weak episodes. Although I've got the DVDs I've yet to watch them all. I dread seeing some of them. That said they haven't released any of the animated series box sets in my country I'd really love to see them again. As well as most of the other animated shows.

Angeloz

 

[SuperDaniel]

Oh yes, i love the series and i hate episodes like Contact, the Clois ones, amnesia etc, etc. But one think that made them watchable to me were Teri Hatcher, Dean Cain and Lane Smith.

But that doesmt mean that Tempus Fugitive, the Mxyzptlk episode, and most of seasons 1 and 2 werent good.

 

[Angeloz]

Oh yes, i love the series and i hate episodes like Contact, the Clois ones, amnesia etc, etc. But one think that made them watchable to me were Teri Hatcher, Dean Cain and Lane Smith.

But that doesmt mean that Tempus Fugitive, the Mxyzptlk episode, and most of seasons 1 and 2 werent good.

I haven't rewatched the Mxy episode yet but agree with the last sentence generally speaking (I've not seen them all recently). Though can you imagine the arguing sand negativity there'd be with the third and fourth seasons if it was a contemporary show? That's what I'm saying. I'm sure even the first two seasons would be argued about.

Angeloz

 

[mego joe]

Well, its up to you of course, but i would watch it again at least twice. Its not a movie that can be fully taken in one viewing IMO. But again its up to you.

I have thought about it. But everytime I consider it seriously, I just can't do it. I think about it and just get kinda sick feeling and realize, there's nothing for me to enjoy through watching it.

So do you honestly think that it didnt hurt Superman to not say goodbye to Lois? IMO it hurt him just as mich as it hurt her.

And that's why it's out of character. SUperman WOULD have told her the truth b/c he understands how much it would hurt Lois and he would never hurt Lois, the woman he loves.

I'll admit, their previous relationship could have been better explained, but on the same note, i do like it when they leave some things to your imagination.

I think they could have split the difference and suggested and explained more, while not completely spoonfeeding us.

I can see a modernised Superman doing it.

The comics don't seem to agree. I can't see it. It truly changes the meaning of 'high moral standards.'

I know plenty of people who have been raised by a single mother and turned out just fine, for example, i recently met a cousin/nephew in law of mine (it was my brothers wife's nephew) who had been raised by a single mother and he is one of the most genuinly nice people i have ever met.

THat is often not the case, and the details often have a great deal to do with how a kid turns out. I know people who always ask "why didn't you care enough to find out about me?" Especially when the dad is not that far away. Imagine learing that your REAL father lived in the same city all along and when you finally find out what is the affect on your relationship with the man you always believed was your father?

But the real question is about Superman, not the average person. Would Superman really be so short-sighted as to not realize the potential consequences of these type of actions? My understanding of the character is that he would be the exact opposite, his genuine caring for those in need and as an orphan himself would make him accutely aware of the plight of children in that situation.

Its the world we live in today, the difference with Superman is though, if he knew Lois was pregnant, i am 110% confident he would have stayed with her.

But SUperman is not about 'the world we live in today.' The essence of his character is that he is a role model, he is the best of us, he operates from a 100% correct motivation. It doesn't matter when he lives, some things are right and wrong and what he did is just wrong. Especially considering that in the story he KNOWS it's wrong and does it anyway. I believe no matter what he would always put kids first.

And this is what Lois thinks in the 1st half of the movie, until Superman proves otherwise and she forgives him.

ALl he ever proved was that he was a coward and emotionally crippled by his love for Lois. SHe forgave him in spite of this, not b/c his excuse was actually believable.

Well that is the fault of both the male and the female isnt it, if they didnt use a condom, it is both of their faults.

I agree, but we aren't discussing Lois, we are trying to focus on SUperman.

Not every mistake no, he would never knowingly commit rape or murder, but he is capable of basic human error.

ANd that's the key. TO me this mistake is not basic to who we know Superman to be and how he has been characterized over the years, especially an adult Superman. It is more the actions of an immature and irresponsible high school student. And that is why it is so bothersome. It may be basic to the average person, but Superman is far from the average person and not just in the 'powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men.' But also in the content of his character and his moral fiber and values. Singer only made Superman 'super' in the physical sense, but the character is actually 'super' in his non-physical attributes as well and that just doesn't come through in the mistakes he makes. He actually comes across as more messed up and insecure that the average person.

Again, i disagree, the way the stoyr was told was great and refreshing to me.

And that's probably more about taste than anything else.

It depends on whether the parents are worth getting to know though doesnt it, if was an only child, and my father was a murderur or rapist, i sure as hell would never want to get to know him..

Despite things like that, kids have an intrinsic need to know who their parents are and love them no matter what.

Jason WILL get to know Superman, and very well i imagine, and when he is ready, he will be told who his real father is.

That is the true sadness, is that he SHOULD know all along and by delaying it and confusing him and potetntially damaging his relationship with RIchard is just wrong.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I have thought about it. But everytime I consider it seriously, I just can't do it. I think about it and just get kinda sick feeling and realize, there's nothing for me to enjoy through watching it.

You should, because (and i hope you dont take offense to this) i dont see how you can argue certain points in the movie by watching it once. Again its up to you of course, but i hate X3 even more than you hate SR, yet i have managed to sit through it a few times.

And that's why it's out of character. SUperman WOULD have told her the truth b/c he understands how much it would hurt Lois and he would never hurt Lois, the woman he loves.

But this Superman hasnt been Superman for long has he? Plus he has never been in love before in this continuity, that is the only difference from the comcis IMO.

I think they could have split the difference and suggested and explained more, while not completely spoonfeeding us.

Possibly, but its a fine balance isnt, getting that balance right is very hard.

The comics don't seem to agree. I can't see it. It truly changes the meaning of 'high moral standards.'

But Superman is in a completely different situation in the comics.

THat is often not the case, and the details often have a great deal to do with how a kid turns out. I know people who always ask "why didn't you care enough to find out about me?" Especially when the dad is not that far away. Imagine learing that your REAL father lived in the same city all along and when you finally find out what is the affect on your relationship with the man you always believed was your father?

But thats the difference, had Superman known, he would have looked after Jason, no question in my mind.

But the real question is about Superman, not the average person. Would Superman really be so short-sighted as to not realize the potential consequences of these type of actions? My understanding of the character is that he would be the exact opposite, his genuine caring for those in need and as an orphan himself would make him accutely aware of the plight of children in that situation.

As i have said before, its possible he didnt know he could concieve with a human. I know in the comics he has questioned this himself.

But SUperman is not about 'the world we live in today.' The essence of his character is that he is a role model, he is the best of us, he operates from a 100% correct motivation. It doesn't matter when he lives, some things are right and wrong and what he did is just wrong. Especially considering that in the story he KNOWS it's wrong and does it anyway. I believe no matter what he would always put kids first.

From the start WB talked about updating Superman for a modern audience, even with the previous projects and directors, IMO, this was more WB than Singer.

ALl he ever proved was that he was a coward and emotionally crippled by his love for Lois. SHe forgave him in spite of this, not b/c his excuse was actually believable.

There is nothing in the movie to suggest this is true.

I agree, but we aren't discussing Lois, we are trying to focus on SUperman.

Fair enough, but Lois has to take some responsibility as well, i think we all know that if she had told Superman to wear a condom he would have.

ANd that's the key. TO me this mistake is not basic to who we know Superman to be and how he has been characterized over the years, especially an adult Superman. It is more the actions of an immature and irresponsible high school student. And that is why it is so bothersome. It may be basic to the average person, but Superman is far from the average person and not just in the 'powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men.' But also in the content of his character and his moral fiber and values. Singer only made Superman 'super' in the physical sense, but the character is actually 'super' in his non-physical attributes as well and that just doesn't come through in the mistakes he makes. He actually comes across as more messed up and insecure that the average person.

I think him being Super in a non-physical sense comes accross in the movie quite a lot. I would rather he approached Lois and apologised to her than turning back time by 5 years to fix his mistake.

And that's probably more about taste than anything else.

Agreed, so no point in arguing this point anymore .

Despite things like that, kids have an intrinsic need to know who their parents are and love them no matter what.

I agree, but i bet there are kids out there who DONT want to know or love their father's.

That is the true sadness, is that he SHOULD know all along and by delaying it and confusing him and potetntially damaging his relationship with RIchard is just wrong.

Let me ask you a question then Mega Joe. Would Jason have a more normal life if Superman had been his dad from the start?

IMO he wouldnt have, if anything, it would have been more traumatic IMO.

 

[mego joe]

You should, because (and i hope you dont take offense to this) i dont see how you can argue certain points in the movie by watching it once. Again its up to you of course, but i hate X3 even more than you hate SR, yet i have managed to sit through it a few times.

I know what you are saying, but it's not just that I think it's a bad movie it's the feeling that it's just wrong. And that is a lot harder to overcome than the quality issues of it.

But this Superman hasnt been Superman for long has he? Plus he has never been in love before in this continuity, that is the only difference from the comcis IMO.

He's supposed to have been Superman in Metropolis for 5 years when he leaves accding to the extras on the dvd. Sounds like he's well into his career to me. As for being in love, I think that Superman/ Clark having been raised by the KEnts would know basic right from wrong when it comes to relationships. He certainly seems to in Superman II using it as vague continuity.

Possibly, but its a fine balance isnt, getting that balance right is very hard.

Right, we just come down on opposite sides of what a good balance is, taste again.

But Superman is in a completely different situation in the comics.

At some point he wasn't though. At some point he was new to Metropolis and fell in love w/ Lois Lane. The differecne is in the backstory that we are not given for SR. COmics: reveals ID before sex. SR backstory: Sex w/o revelaing ID. That's where the difference begins and everything else stems from that.

But thats the difference, had Superman known, he would have looked after Jason, no question in my mind.

And the difference to me is that SUperman would know his obligations and responsibilities to tell Lois the truth before leaving town whether or not he knew she was pregnant.

As i have said before, its possible he didnt know he could concieve with a human. I know in the comics he has questioned this himself.

But since that is not in the film, and it's not even suggested it's not really fair game. I could say that Jason is really Mxyzptlk and it's all just one of his pranks.

From the start WB talked about updating Superman for a modern audience, even with the previous projects and directors, IMO, this was more WB than Singer. It only seems ‘updated’ by a lowering of Superman’s moral standards, everything else is a direct re-hash of the Donner films, hardly an updating.

Hard to tell w/o more details. Either way, it didn't work IMO.

There is nothing in the movie to suggest this is true.

It's just as valid as your suggestion.

Fair enough, but Lois has to take some responsibility as well, i think we all know that if she had told Superman to wear a condom he would have.

The thing is that responsibility goes beyond wearing a condom. There is more to responsibility than that.

I think him being Super in a non-physical sense comes accross in the movie quite a lot.

But only in his public life, not his private life.

I would rather he approached Lois and apologised to her than turning back time by 5 years to fix his mistake.

And I would have preferred him to have said good bye and explained himself before leaving.

Agreed, so no point in arguing this point anymore .



I agree, but i bet there are kids out there who DONT want to know or love their father's.

But Superman’s not that kind of person, is he? Superman is the kind of person you would want to know was your father and from the very beginning.

Let me ask you a question then Mega Joe. Would Jason have a more normal life if Superman had been his dad from the start?

IMO he wouldnt have, if anything, it would have been more traumatic IMO.

B/c of Jason’s DNA he’s not going to have a normal life. The best thing possible for Jason would be to have had Superman there all along to guide him through his developing powers as they come about. And also so that there will be now trust issues later on. It’s not about ‘normal,’ it’s about what’s best for the child.

The best thing for a special child like Jason is to have the guidance of his father who ALREADY knows what it’s like to grow up different. When Jason does find out that Superman is his father he’s going to have trust issues with all 3 parents AND not understand why Superman stayed away from him for so long AND why he didn’t care enough to tell Lois that he had to leave for an extended period of time.

 

[El Payaso]

But Superman’s not that kind of person, is he? Superman is the kind of person you would want to know was your father and from the very beginning.

Absolutely. That doesn't mean it can happen in a different way for the better.

B/c of Jason’s DNA he’s not going to have a normal life. The best thing possible for Jason would be to have had Superman there all along to guide him through his developing powers as they come about. And also so that there will be now trust issues later on. It’s not about ‘normal,’ it’s about what’s best for the child.

The best thing for a special child like Jason is to have the guidance of his father who ALREADY knows what it’s like to grow up different. When Jason does find out that Superman is his father he’s going to have trust issues with all 3 parents AND not understand why Superman stayed away from him for so long AND why he didn’t care enough to tell Lois that he had to leave for an extended period of time.

Yeah. It will probably like finding out at your 18 y.o. that you're not from Earth but from a distant planet called Krypton with a different tradition and you'll have to re-define who you are. Sounds familiar.

 

[dr collossus]

Yeah. It will probably like finding out at your 18 y.o. that you're not from Earth but from a distant planet called Krypton with a different tradition and you'll have to re-define who you are. Sounds familiar.

Although your point is valid you're ignoring the crux of what he's saying for the sake of belittling him. He's saying that in light of Superman's own experience, wouldn't it be best for Jason to benefit from that experience and have the guidance of someone who has had to work it all out for himself?

But aside from that, Superman would feel the obligation and responsibility of parenthood and would want to be there to raise his son, because he is a caring and decent person.

 

[mego joe]

Although your point is valid you're ignoring the crux of what he's saying for the sake of belittling him. He's saying that in light of Superman's own experience, wouldn't it be best for Jason to benefit from that experience and have the guidance of someone who has had to work it all out for himself?

Dr. C- you know El Payaso can't distinguish the differences between S:TM and SR right? To him they're exactly alike in character and the fact that Jor-El had no choice to save his son, BUT send him into space and SUperman HAD a choice and made the wrong one is not discernable to him.

But aside from that, Superman would feel the obligation and responsibility of parenthood and would want to be there to raise his son, because he is a caring and decent person.

Exactly.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I know what you are saying, but it's not just that I think it's a bad movie it's the feeling that it's just wrong. And that is a lot harder to overcome than the quality issues of it.

Well again, i leave it up to you, but i think it could possibly help you understand my points on certain issues.

He's supposed to have been Superman in Metropolis for 5 years when he leaves accding to the extras on the dvd. Sounds like he's well into his career to me. As for being in love, I think that Superman/ Clark having been raised by the KEnts would know basic right from wrong when it comes to relationships. He certainly seems to in Superman II using it as vague continuity.

I dont see how any parent could properly school their child in love if their child has never felt it before.

Right, we just come down on opposite sides of what a good balance is, taste again.

Cool

At some point he wasn't though. At some point he was new to Metropolis and fell in love w/ Lois Lane. The differecne is in the backstory that we are not given for SR. COmics: reveals ID before sex. SR backstory: Sex w/o revelaing ID. That's where the difference begins and everything else stems from that.

Again, i can understand him not revealing his identity to Lois, it would put her in mortal danger, and his secret in great danger.

And the difference to me is that SUperman would know his obligations and responsibilities to tell Lois the truth before leaving town whether or not he knew she was pregnant.

Again, I just think he made a mistake, doesnt make him right, but by god he pays for the mistake done you think?

But since that is not in the film, and it's not even suggested it's not really fair game. I could say that Jason is really Mxyzptlk and it's all just one of his pranks.

Well IMO it IS suggested by Superman's face when he first looks upon Jason as his son. There is happiness, then confusion (A look as if to say,'How could this have happened?') and then utter happiness (as if he is saying 'It doesnt matter how it happened, i have a son, i am not alone anymore!')

Hard to tell w/o more details. Either way, it didn't work IMO.

Again it just a case of difference taste's IMO.

It's just as valid as your suggestion.

Well I didnt think so .

The thing is that responsibility goes beyond wearing a condom. There is more to responsibility than that.

I agree, but i still feel Lois is just as responsible as Superman.

But only in his public life, not his private life.

Again, I disagree, by taking the time out to apologise to Lois and to make sure he doesnt make the mistake again, he rectifies his mistakes, which is far more noble than ignoring them or turning back time IMO.

And I would have preferred him to have said good bye and explained himself before leaving.

On the one hand i do also, but then again, if he had, i wouldnt have got the drama i enjoy so much in SR.

But Superman’s not that kind of person, is he? Superman is the kind of person you would want to know was your father and from the very beginning.

On this i agree.

B/c of Jason’s DNA he’s not going to have a normal life. The best thing possible for Jason would be to have had Superman there all along to guide him through his developing powers as they come about. And also so that there will be now trust issues later on. It’s not about ‘normal,’ it’s about what’s best for the child.

The best thing for a special child like Jason is to have the guidance of his father who ALREADY knows what it’s like to grow up different. When Jason does find out that Superman is his father he’s going to have trust issues with all 3 parents AND not understand why Superman stayed away from him for so long AND why he didn’t care enough to tell Lois that he had to leave for an extended period of time.

Superman WILL be there though, his powers have only just began to manifest, so Superman will be there to guide him.

Jason will have a similar upbringing to Superman, expect he'll have someone there to explain his powers to him.

 

[mego joe]

Well again, i leave it up to you, but i think it could possibly help you understand my points on certain issues.



I dont see how any parent could properly school their child in love if their child has never felt it before.

YOu school your child on behavior, on what is right and wrong. And while it is not romantic love Clark certainly knows the love of his parents and knows his love for his parents. By what you're saying, no one knows how to act until they are in love. That is simply not true. People learn how to act as they grow up and develop, not only by trial and error.

Cool




Again, i can understand him not revealing his identity to Lois, it would put her in mortal danger, and his secret in great danger.

ACtually she's in mortal danger as being Superman's girlfriend, and much safer as Clark Kent's girlfriend. That's why it never got serious in the comics between them pre-Crisis.

Again, I just think he made a mistake, doesnt make him right, but by god he pays for the mistake done you think?

More significantly, Lois, RIchard and Jason pay for it too. And that is the problem. It's not a mistake that only affects him, it's a mistake that hurts the people he cares about.

Well IMO it IS suggested by Superman's face when he first looks upon Jason as his son. There is happiness, then confusion (A look as if to say,'How could this have happened?') and then utter happiness (as if he is saying 'It doesnt matter how it happened, i have a son, i am not alone anymore!')

That's a lot to suggest. I still see that scene as scene of bittersweetness. Hence using JOr-El’s bittersweet speech from S:TM.

I also think it's incredibly shallow to have SUperman think that having a child is all about himself as opposed to being about the child. It just suggests again that Superman is thinking of himself first and NOT his loved ones, those that should come first.

Again it just a case of difference taste's IMO.

True.

Well I didnt think so .

OK.

I agree, but i still feel Lois is just as responsible as Superman.

But she didn’t leave for 5 years w/o saying goodbye. What I’m saying is that the definition of responsibility is not using contraception, but rather only entering into a sexual relationship if you are able to put the other person and the potential fruits of that relationship first. Just b/c you used contraception doesn’t mean you acted responsibly. Maybe you lowered the risk of pregnancy but you did not eliminate it nor did you eliminate your responsibility.

Again, I disagree, by taking the time out to apologise to Lois and to make sure he doesnt make the mistake again, he rectifies his mistakes, which is far more noble than ignoring them or turning back time IMO.

I think it is shortsighted to say that he rectified his previous mistakes. His mistakes in SR are unrectifiable. The most he can do is try to atone for them and demonstrate he’s learned that he was wrong and not do the same thing again. He can never recover those 5 years he was gone from Lois and Jason, he can never go back and make sure Jason knows from the beginning who his real father is.

Donner/ Lester provided a way to erase the consequences of his mistakes, b/c it was in character for Superman to be able to fix anything. He didn’t ignore his mistakes in either S:TM or SII. Turning back time might be a bad plot device, but it shows that Superman was willing to do anything to save Lois and reverse the effects of the Earthquake. It is far more noble to completely erase the pain and death that was casued in S:TM and SII than to have to see your mistakes hurt the woman you love and your son.

On the one hand i do also, but then again, if he had, i wouldnt have got the drama i enjoy so much in SR.

I felt little to no drama. I never expected Superman to end up w/ Lois and Jason and I was never excited by anything.

I do think had he done everything right and STILL he came back to a world and Lois that had moved on then THAT would have been interesting and dramatic.

When it’s portrayed as a series of mistakes he should have known better than to make, it just isn’t interesting.

On this i agree.

Cool!

Superman WILL be there though, his powers have only just began to manifest, so Superman will be there to guide him.

Only luck has borne this out. There is no way Superman would know this ahead of time. Therefore he should have acted responsibly and acted in a way which showed he cared BEFORE leaving.

Jason will have a similar upbringing to Superman, expect he'll have someone there to explain his powers to him.

And he will always wonder why that person didn’t care enough about him to be there for him and his mother the whole time. And he may not even want Superman in his life at that point, why would he? Superman didn’t care enough to be around for his first 4 years of life, why should Jason want him around now?

The situation is too dysfunctional. Superman is not about dysfunctional families.

 

[Angeloz]

Crap so no Clark/Richard/Lois threesome? Bugger.

Angeloz