The reason many people on the Hype seem to give for their dislike (sometimes hatred) of SR is the idea that Superman was "out of character." Indeed the reason many feel that Singer should be removed from the franchise is because he portrayed Superman doing too many things he would not do. To me Superman is a character with a rich and diverse mythology in which he has been depicted in many different ways. In this thread, I'll list out some problems that people have with Singer's Superman and let you know some places in Superman's history where they have happened before or are happening now. Let me just say this isn't about saying some people are right or wrong, it is about opening things up for discussion.
1. Superman wouldn't be a stalker!
I wanted to start off with a scene that I personally don't like. I've never been comfortable with the idea that Superman would invade other people's privacy. But this isn't a thread for debating the right and wrong of it. The bottom line is Superman has done it before. I'll highlight instances from the tv series, "Lois and Clark." After a date (with Lex Luthor I believe) Lois returns to her apartment where she discusses her love life with her sister. It is clearly meant to be a private conversation but guess who is listening in? Clark floats outside her window eavesdropping. Also later in the series, when Lex is proposing to Lois at his place Superman is again floating outside looking in. I'm sure other people could list out different instances where Superman invade the privacy of others but these are just two examples from the tv series.
I think that it's about his motivation in that scene. He is peeping into her life for purely selfish reasons that is what makes it 'stalking.' He's not checking on her to see if she's OK. As far as the scene from the T.V. series, it may just be a borderline incident, but when taken with the rest of Singer's version it just comes off as another example of Singer not getting it.
2. Superman wouldn't have a sexual relationship with Lois without telling her his secret identity!
One of the problems people have indicated with the story in SR is that you could interpret it as Superman having an ongoing sexual relationship with Lois without her knowing his secret identity. I freely admit this would seem a little creepy, moreso if you are using the post crisis interpretation where Clark Kent is who he really is as opposed to a disguise. My initial problem with this issue is that it is never clearly indicated that this is what happened in the SR story. We don't know that Superman had an ongoing sexual relationship with Lois.
What you say is true. There was no clear context for the relationship. But wouldn’t it be worse behavior and even more out of character if it was a one-night-stand, or just a casual sexual relationship instead of a committed sexual relationship?
One person that many have called for as a replacement for Singer is Bruce Timm. Recently, a Bruce Timm written story was released on DVD, "Superman: Doomsday." I haven't had the opportunity to see it, but I have read reviews. Here is one:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=122821
"One of the movie's most significant departures from the original comics is its rollback of the Superman/Lois/Clark triangle. They're not married, and Lois doesn't know the secret -- but she's still dating Superman. What's more, they're apparently close enough that she appears in the Fortress of Solitude wearing only a towel, and later a red bathrobe (to match the Man of Steel's). Still, she only calls him "Superman," although he reminds her about "Kal-El." While this smacks of classic Silver Age Superdickery (TM), it sets up a couple of plot points, including Lois' traditional investigation into Superman's alter ego. Lois also claims that Supes' familiar justifications for a secret identity really mask his fear of commitment."
Here it seems far more clearly indicated that the situation that supposedly happened in the SR back story is definitely happening in Superman: Doomsday. Yet somehow I doubt anyone will call for Timm's head like they have been calling for Singer's head.
Don’t be too sure. The situation in the animated movie could be completely innocent. Without seeing the details of the situation you don’t known if they got doused with mud and had to shower off at the fortress. The details will give a context for the scene.
Also, I doubt that this situation will be the driving factor for all the conflict in the film. Remember, in SR it is Superman acting like an irresponsible jerk that creates ALL the conflict in the story. It is central to every plot line. It really depends on how integral to the story it is as to whether people call for Bruce Timm’s head. However, knowing what I know now, I will be wary of the animated film. I will now rent before immediately buying and probably check out spoilers before renting.
3. Superman wouldn't leave Earth without telling Lois!
If you've read the comics you know that the answer is yes. One specific example comes from Superman:Exile (a great post-crisis Superman story ). Superman leaves with the intention of never coming back and as far as I know he doesn't tell Lois before leaving.
It’s all about context. Before Superman left he said goodbye to Ma, Pa, Lana and Matrix who were the 4 most important people in his life at the time. Superman and Lois were not dating on any level. Lois was dating Jose Delgado. Check out this page from Action Comics #644.
It is clear that Superman has explained himself to Ma, Pa, Lana and Matirx.
The context of SR shows that they at some point had sex. This is clearly a different situation than Superman: Exile. You have to look at the story in context. In the comics at the time after he Byrne reboot, Superman and Lois had yet to become anything more than celebrity/ media acquaintances. Clark certainly had developed a working relationship with Lois, but she was not close with Superman, and while she may have been infatuated with him, she certainly was not in any sort of dating relationship with him.
In the Adventures of Superman #452 she says to herself, "Superman's been missing for weeks, how will I ever find him?" She doesn't know that he has left of his own accord. Even before Singer's involvement, Superman has been willing to leave the planet without telling Lois.
In the context of SR one would expect that the person Superman was having sex with would be one of the most important people in his life, if not the most important. The question is not “Would Superman leave without saying goodbye to Lois,” the question is “Would Superman leave without saying goodbye to the most important people in his life, including Lois if they were in a relationship, especially one of a sexual nature.”
Where does all of this lead us? We can see that many of the elements that people complain about have been a apart of Superman's mythology. It is no question that Singer is under greater scrutiny than other Superman storytellers and rightly so because the story he told was told via a $200 million budget. But is it accurate to say that Singer's story is completely inconsistent with Superman's history. Imo it isn't, but I would really like to hear what others have to say. Enjoy the discussion folks.
I think it is clear that the opposite is true. The specific details of the situations in SR make it very different contextually from all the examples you present. In comics, Superman has never ‘stalked’ Lois and peered into her private life because of selfish reasons, especially in the context of Lois having a family.
Despite what you say about Superman and Lois’s dating relationship in the pre-Crisis comics they have never had sex without Lois first knowing that Clark and Superman were the same person. Your evidence from the forthcoming “Doomsday” animated film is complete guesswork on your part without actually knowing the details of those scenes.
And no, Superman has never left Earth for an indefinite or extended period of time without informing those closest to him. Your example in Exile does not apply because he does say goodbye to those most important to him, it’s just that Lois is not one of the most important people in his life and more importantly, he was not in a sexual relationship with Lois at the time.
