Superman Returns Was Superman Really Out of Character in SR?

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Cool beans.

But he still is not a consistent character in ever portrayal over the decades.
SR was just the last time he was screwed with in a big way.

I dont even think the character was screwed in a big way in SR at all. He has never been in this situation before so there is no basis to how he should act IMO.

Plus, he has done similar things in other mediums in the past plenty of times.

 

[LexCorp]

I dont even think the character was screwed in a big way in SR at all. He has never been in this situation before so there is no basis to how he should act IMO.

Plus, he has done similar things in other mediums in the past plenty of times.

I should rephrase, not so much a big way just a little way. He has left Earth before in JLA taking a judgemental position sometimes in the tower.

 

[mego joe]

Cool beans.

But he still is not a consistent character in ever portrayal over the decades.
SR was just the last time he was screwed with in a big way.

I think there are some aspects that are always consistent though, and to me his actions in SR fly in the face of that. I feel like I've discussed those things ad infinitum already.

I did forget one aspect of his character that I want to add.

Before Superman would enter into a committed romantic relationship with Lois, Lois would already know about his dual identity as Clark AND Superman. (Superman II, What Ever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, Superman #50 (post-Crisis issues) and All-Star Superman).

 

[mego joe]

I dont even think the character was screwed in a big way in SR at all. He has never been in this situation before so there is no basis to how he should act IMO.

Plus, he has done similar things in other mediums in the past plenty of times.

Well, I don't think there's any indication of him ever doing anything that is akin to the lack of sexual responsibility shown in SR, nor has he ever been shown to become a parent without first being married. To me that's a pretty big jump for the Big Blue Boyscout to make w/o a solid story with plausible and believable motivation.

Nor has he ever chosen to hurt Lois intentionally when he could have avoided it.

 

[El Payaso]

Like "Clown." That's what your name means in Spanish, right?

I wasn't refering to you, but yes, it is clown. And the time you call me that you were making a joke about clown's flowers and such, it wasn't a mere translation.

It is quite annoying when posters start refering to other posters and not the discusion itself. Then it all goes personal. In Spider Daniel's case, he was contributing nothing to the discusion, just started giving opinions about me. Pointless, annoying.

Dude, I've been proving you wrong for a year now. Just b/c you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't true.

You haven't assumed Superman's serious mistakes and lack of bravery to live with consequences of his actions in Donner's movies. So no.

Payaso, it all boils down to opinion. DOn't act like you have properly refuted points and I haven't. It's all in your own mind. We view too many things differently. THe world. Morality. SUperman. That's just the way it is.

I had you kind of assuming Donner's Superman was more or less the same as Singer's Superman (which is my whole point). Little goal of El Payaso.

 

[mego joe]

I wasn't refering to you, but yes, it is clown. And the time you call me that you were making a joke about clown's flowers and such, it wasn't a mere translation.

No, you got it right, I was making a joke, but not at your expense since that is what your name means and you already knew that.

It is quite annoying when posters start refering to other posters and not the discusion itself. Then it all goes personal. In Spider Daniel's case, he was contributing nothing to the discusion, just started giving opinions about me. Pointless, annoying.




You haven't assumed Superman's serious mistakes and lack of bravery to live with consequences of his actions in Donner's movies. So no.

That's becasue the DOnner films present a different SUperman, a SUperman that CAN fix his mistakes and he has the bravery to live with the consequenes, but won't let everyone ELSE have to live with the consequences of his actions. In the end, he's the only one that has to suffer, the rest of the world and his loved ones do not.

I had you kind of assuming Donner's Superman was more or less the same as Singer's Superman (which is my whole point). Little goal of El Payaso.

Not really, I've never thought they were the same. Supposed to be? Yes. Portrayed the same? No. It's still all in your mind El Payaso. Goal unachieved.

 

[El Payaso]

No, you got it right, I was making a joke, but not at your expense since that is what your name means and you already knew that.

I assure you I have not a flower that throws water because I sign as Payaso, the same I know you're not made out of plastic because your nickname is mego. If I said a joke about let's say your reasoning coming from a plastic head... I don't think you'd be being so cool about it.

That's becasue the DOnner films present a different SUperman, a SUperman that CAN fix his mistakes

Yes, by playing with things he's not supposed to, like time reversing (whichj he wouldn't use to help anyone else but his personal treasure, Lois) and mind manipulating (which proves he only cares for Lois as his girl, the minute she gives him some problem he better delete her memories without telling her).

He fixed his mistakes up making bigger unethical mistakes.

and he has the bravery to live with the consequenes,

False.

He can't live with choosing save other people before Lois, so he would reverse time.

He can't live with a suffering Lois because he chose to keepo being Superman, so he deleted her mind.

As you see, he wasn't able to live with consequences of his actions and choices.

He had to do something so things were like they were before he made those actions and choices.

In the end, he's the only one that has to suffer, the rest of the world and his loved ones do not.

False. He's not the only one.

Zod can't come to life again (and certainly Superman won't reverse time for him).

Lois won't be able to keep her memories or even decide if she wants to, because he took the decision of deleting Lois' memories personally and not telling her about it.

Not really, I've never thought they were the same.

But that's just because you're ignoring the implications of Superman's actions and choices in STM and SII.

Supposed to be? Yes. Portrayed the same? No.

In fact I already said he made worse and more unethical mistakes in STM and SII than in SR, so semantically you're right.

It's still all in your mind El Payaso.

Of course, my mind is the one able to admit it.

Goal unachieved.

My only unachieved goal is to have you admitting what you can see but choose to ignore.

 

[mego joe]

I assure you I have not a flower that throws water because I sign as Payaso, the same I know you're not made out of plastic because your nickname is mego. If I said a joke about let's say your reasoning coming from a plastic head... I don't think you'd be being so cool about it.



Yes, by playing with things he's not supposed to, like time reversing (whichj he wouldn't use to help anyone else but his personal treasure, Lois) and mind manipulating (which proves he only cares for Lois as his girl, the minute she gives him some problem he better delete her memories without telling her).

He fixed his mistakes up making bigger unethical mistakes.



False.

He can't live with choosing save other people before Lois, so he would reverse time.

He can't live with a suffering Lois because he chose to keepo being Superman, so he deleted her mind.

As you see, he wasn't able to live with consequences of his actions and choices.

He had to do something so things were like they were before he made those actions and choices.



False. He's not the only one.

Zod can't come to life again (and certainly Superman won't reverse time for him).

Lois won't be able to keep her memories or even decide if she wants to, because he took the decision of deleting Lois' memories personally and not telling her about it.



But that's just because you're ignoring the implications of Superman's actions and choices in STM and SII.



In fact I already said he made worse and more unethical mistakes in STM and SII than in SR, so semantically you're right.



Of course, my mind is the one able to admit it.



My only unachieved goal is to have you admitting what you can see but choose to ignore.

Your assumptions about me are laughable.

BTW- It's not easy typing in these oven mitts.

 

[SuperDaniel]

First of all, El Payaso, how come u keep bringing the amensia kiss since that wasnt even Donner`s idea?

Its obviously a terrible scene but you seem to keep bringing this scene to back your argument thats been proven wrong many times by me and mego joe.

Secondly, Me and mego joe never said the Donner movies were perfect. But the core of the character in those movies was intact. The good outweighted the bad, not the case with SR.

The point of SII is that he made a selfish reason to give up of his powers to be with Lois. However it wasnt THAT selfish because Lois loves him and he loves her. So the reason behind it was to make Lois happy and be a husband to her. However, he learned through the events of the movie that he cant be with her and be Superman at the same time. Thats the lesson. He has a duty with mankind. Not because his father said so. Because its his choice. He choses to go back to the fortress to get his powers back.

When SR starts, Superman already made 2 mistakes for pure selfish reasons and hurt everybody in the process and this is the point we`re trying to argue.

1)He never said Lois goodbye and never said where he was going to anybody except his mother.

In all 70`s of history of the character of Superman, Lois has always been Superman`s one and true love. Its his Jane, Juliet, whatever u feel like it.

Now i`m not talking about comics. I`m talking about morals. Being in love with someone means putting her happyness over yours. Because to see her happy means makes you happy. This what being a husband means. He would never hurt on purpose. This is for everybody, men or Supermen.

Superman however is not the normal human being. He is above us. He is supposed to be an inspiration in every aspect of life. This is how Superman have been portrayed for 70 years and why he endured so long. Dont bring up stupid stories from the comics to back up your aguments. GET THIS. Many writers of the comics get Superman wrong too. Thats why those stories are long forgotten or will be someday. The ones that remain in every fan minds are the ones that will forever.

GET THIS. DONNER SUPERMAN IS THE BEST INTERPRETATION OF SUPERMAN IN THE BIG SCREEN TILL NOW BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN THERE CANT BE BETTER ONES. THATS WHAT ME AS FAN WANT WHEN I GO TO THE THEATER
TO WATCH A SUPERMAN MOVIE.

In this case, with SR, Superman because of the estabilished relationship with Lois Lane in the previous movies OR comics (vague sequel), he would always put Lois above himself.

THe BIG INCONSITENCY in SR and the WHOLE PLOT OF THE MOVIE IS BASED IN THE IDEA THAT SUPERMAN SCREWS UP and doesnt SAY GOODBYE TO LOIS.

The reason for this in the movie is that Superman DOESNT HAVE THE BALLS TO DO WHATS RIGHT because he loves her too much so if he see her one more time, he wouldn`t be able to go.

THIS IS COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS and how can u not see this?

Superman is purposely hurting Lois Lane and everyone around him.

SUPERMAN DOESNT MAKE THIS TYPE OF MISTAKE AND THIS IS OUT OF THE CHARACTER.

Maybe Spider-man does. Or Indiana Jones. Or Wolverine. Or Batman. Or me and you.

But Superman is none of the above. He is more.

Yes, he has human emotions. But his emotions are still based on something that makes him more than us. His sense of right and wrong, his integrity.

Because the GA and Marvel fans who never read great stories from the comics have the stupid idea that Superman is boring and MR perfect, Singer came to Superman with the Marvel idea to humanize Superman by making him like every character in the Marvel Universe, like X-men.

A loner, a stranger, a reject of the society.

However, the basic idea of Superman is that even in the greatest tragedy that has ever happened to him, wich is Krypton exploding when he was baby, he still learned the lesson of hope, wich is his parents making the sacrifice to save him.

Superman is not a Marvel character and shouldn`t be treated as so.

Singer made the character himself. A lone, strange, reject. However Superman is not himself, me, you, mego joe or anyone. This is great in every type of movie. NOT A SUPERMAN MOVIE. Because He is SUPERman.

He is more.

The 2nd mistake is obviously not telling the world where he is going.

Superman is the kind of the character that is a leader. He gives speeches to the world. See SIV, Lois & Clark, etc. He is the kind of character that is TRUTH AND JUSTICE personalized.

The Superman i know the moment he found about about the existence of Krypton would make a public conference and say something like this.

"People of Earth. I`ve always devoted my life to help as much as i can. With the possibility of Krypton being alive, there is a possibility that more superpowered people would come to Earth like what happened so i have to go back to see if theres any possible threats. I`m the one one who can do this."

He would leave and even if Lois published the article, people would still think Superman made the right move. And even her would think twice before publishing it because in the end, everybody would know that Superman made the right move.

Wich is, to be a hero. Put people first before himself.

In SR, he doesnt say goodbye to anybody, so, superman leaves to krypton because he is felling lonely and hurt lois.

2 inconsistencies that is a proof that Superman acted out of character IN THIS MOVIE AND that reflects that Singer doesnt know the character at all. At least not when he made SR.

He can make Man of Steel a great movie we all can love and thats what me as a fan want and hope.

But he didnt do it with SR. He tried his best`m sure and made SR with all his best intentions. But that wasnt enough.

HE JUST NEEDS TO DO MORE.

 

[Angeloz]

What Superman's character should be like....

Genuinely caring and compassionate and willing and able to at least attempt enacting change. (Peace on Earth, Must THere Be A Superman?, SIV: The Quest for Peace)

When it comes to those closest to him, he will do whatever necessary to protect them b/c he loves them,(For Tomorrow, What Ever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow)

Lois is his anchor and the thing that keeps him human in spite of his god-like powers. HIs love for her is how he KNOWS he is human.(For Tomorrow)

His personality is consistent in both his public and personal life. Not to say his personal life will not take precedence over his private life (Sacrifice, Kingdom Come)
but he will not knowingly do the wrong thing to hurt humanity or the people he loves. (see issues of Action that take place after "Exile" for an example of particular importance to SR.)

He has an indominable will. (For Tomorrow, What Ever Happened To the Man of Tomorrow?)

Keep in mind that the source stories are just off the top of my head and what are most recent in my mind. I've read plenty and just can't think of everything.

I'll admit it's been too long since I've read most comics though I do plan on getting some TPBs eventually. And I haven't read most things since before 2000-1. So I've heard of "For Tomorrow" and might have read things about it but I don't really know it. Actually it's been over five years for most stuff anyway (since before September 11). I know this because I got and read "Watchmen" before that time for instance.

It's also been awhile for some things like "Lois & Clark" though I've watched some episodes. But if you want examples of imperfection due to emotions then there's the films but I won't go into that 'cos of your discussions elsewhere. And just don't want to get into it. Then there's the fifties show where he left people on a mountain so they'd fall off through their stupidity (which they did). He was nearby and he let them because they'd found out about his identity.

There's also the animated series. Mainly the "Justice League" and "JLU" because I've seen them within the past year. But he got overly emotional and threatened to destroy the Watchtower with his fellow heroes on it when Darkseid appeared. He also destroyed a whole lot of buildings with Darkseid and there presumedly were people in them. It was in Metropolis I believe and they were skyscrapers. I don't remember if all of them came down but there was serious damage done. There was also the time he fought Captain Marvel and destroyed buildings but luckily they were new so no one was in them. Still dickish.

But really I get that you can't accept the mistake he made in "Superman Returns" even though he did learn from it. I also get the point is you don't like it and it doesn't jive with your image of him. I do get it. I'm more forgiving I guess. Naughty of me.

Angeloz

 

[LexCorp]

I'll admit it's been too long since I've read most comics though I do plan on getting some TPBs eventually. And I haven't read most things since before 2000-1. So I've heard of "For Tomorrow" and might have read things about it but I don't really know it. Actually it's been over five years for most stuff anyway (since before September 11). I know this because I got and read "Watchmen" before that time for instance.

It's also been awhile for some things like "Lois & Clark" though I've watched some episodes. But if you want examples of imperfection due to emotions then there's the films but I won't go into that 'cos of your discussions elsewhere. And just don't want to get into it. Then there's the fifties show where he left people on a mountain so they'd fall off through their stupidity (which they did). He was nearby and he let them because they'd found out about his identity.

There's also the animated series. Mainly the "Justice League" and "JLU" because I've seen them within the past year. But he got overly emotional and threatened to destroy the Watchtower with his fellow heroes on it when Darkseid appeared. He also destroyed a whole lot of buildings with Darkseid and there presumedly were people in them. It was in Metropolis I believe and they were skyscrapers. I don't remember if all of them came down but there was serious damage done. There was also the time he fought Captain Marvel and destroyed buildings but luckily they were new so no one was in them. Still dickish.

But really I get that you can't accept the mistake he made in "Superman Returns" even though he did learn from it. I also get the point is you don't like it and it doesn't jive with your image of him. I do get it. I'm more forgiving I guess. Naughty of me.

Angeloz

That captain Marvel fight was a great example of one of the most, as you say, dickish things he has ever done.

 

[Angeloz]

Shall I be naughtier and say a couple of things I liked in "Justice League".

I loved when they went into an alternate Earth where Vandal Savage won WWII for the Germans (and himself) they got back and saw Batman. As he was the one that wasn't with them though they'd met alternate version of Bruce there. But when they came back and was greeted by Batman, Superman rushed up and hugged him. And Batman let him though didn't return the hug. Superman eventually got embarrassed. So like a guy. Then in another tale Batman crashed the Watchtower to save the Earth and was going down with it. When Superman realised he went and saved him. Then they made comments to one another. I'll admit that's my second favourite moment. But the hug is the first. Sorry I just want to indicate I did like the animated shows. Probably naughty of me again.

Angeloz

 

[LexCorp]

Shall I be naughtier and say a couple of things I liked in "Justice League".

I loved when they went into an alternate Earth where Vandal Savage won WWII for the Germans (and himself) they got back and saw Batman. As he was the one that wasn't with them though they'd met alternate version of Bruce there. But when they came back and was greeted by Batman, Superman rushed up and hugged him. And Batman let him though didn't return the hug. Superman eventually got embarrassed. So like a guy. Then in another tale Batman crashed the Watchtower to save the Earth and was going down with it. When Superman realised he went and saved him. Then they made comments to one another. I'll admit that's my second favourite moment. But the hug is the first. Sorry I just want to indicate I did like the animated shows. Probably naughty of me again.

Angeloz

That's not bad at all, just guy love.

 

[Angeloz]

Well I like emotional involvement. Not just explosions. Give me good stories that can include action but it must have or involve emotions. But I also like Superman/Batman too. Slash or non-slash i.e. friends. That's the best.

Angeloz

 

[LexCorp]

Well I like emotional involvement. Not just explosions. Give me good stories that can include action but it must have or involve emotions. But I also like Superman/Batman too. Slash or non-slash i.e. friends. That's the best.

Angeloz

The Superman/Batman comic series is great reading. Picks up on the thought in each others minds. Tells us what they are thinking about each other it is so cute.

 

[Angeloz]

I've seen some of it on the internet and I've got the "Superman/Batman Greatest Stories" that had mainly historic stories (a couple from the modern era). But it's too modern for me to have read it. Though I will get the TPBs eventually. I hope this year sometime.

Angeloz

 

[LexCorp]

I've seen some of it on the internet and I've got the "Superman/Batman Greatest Stories" that had mainly historic stories (a couple from the modern era). But it's too modern for me to have read it. Though I will get the TPBs eventually. I hope this year sometime.

Angeloz

Oh yeah it is worth it. The Kara episode was a great story I love Kara in anything really.

 

[CGHulk]

This is exactly what I think and feel about Superman, well done!

First of all, El Payaso, how come u keep bringing the amensia kiss since that wasnt even Donner`s idea?

Its obviously a terrible scene but you seem to keep bringing this scene to back your argument thats been proven wrong many times by me and mego joe.

Secondly, Me and mego joe never said the Donner movies were perfect. But the core of the character in those movies was intact. The good outweighted the bad, not the case with SR.

The point of SII is that he made a selfish reason to give up of his powers to be with Lois. However it wasnt THAT selfish because Lois loves him and he loves her. So the reason behind it was to make Lois happy and be a husband to her. However, he learned through the events of the movie that he cant be with her and be Superman at the same time. Thats the lesson. He has a duty with mankind. Not because his father said so. Because its his choice. He choses to go back to the fortress to get his powers back.

When SR starts, Superman already made 2 mistakes for pure selfish reasons and hurt everybody in the process and this is the point we`re trying to argue.

1)He never said Lois goodbye and never said where he was going to anybody except his mother.

In all 70`s of history of the character of Superman, Lois has always been Superman`s one and true love. Its his Jane, Juliet, whatever u feel like it.

Now i`m not talking about comics. I`m talking about morals. Being in love with someone means putting her happyness over yours. Because to see her happy means makes you happy. This what being a husband means. He would never hurt on purpose. This is for everybody, men or Supermen.

Superman however is not the normal human being. He is above us. He is supposed to be an inspiration in every aspect of life. This is how Superman have been portrayed for 70 years and why he endured so long. Dont bring up stupid stories from the comics to back up your aguments. GET THIS. Many writers of the comics get Superman wrong too. Thats why those stories are long forgotten or will be someday. The ones that remain in every fan minds are the ones that will forever.

GET THIS. DONNER SUPERMAN IS THE BEST INTERPRETATION OF SUPERMAN IN THE BIG SCREEN TILL NOW BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN THERE CANT BE BETTER ONES. THATS WHAT ME AS FAN WANT WHEN I GO TO THE THEATER
TO WATCH A SUPERMAN MOVIE.

In this case, with SR, Superman because of the estabilished relationship with Lois Lane in the previous movies OR comics (vague sequel), he would always put Lois above himself.

THe BIG INCONSITENCY in SR and the WHOLE PLOT OF THE MOVIE IS BASED IN THE IDEA THAT SUPERMAN SCREWS UP and doesnt SAY GOODBYE TO LOIS.

The reason for this in the movie is that Superman DOESNT HAVE THE BALLS TO DO WHATS RIGHT because he loves her too much so if he see her one more time, he wouldn`t be able to go.

THIS IS COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS and how can u not see this?

Superman is purposely hurting Lois Lane and everyone around him.

SUPERMAN DOESNT MAKE THIS TYPE OF MISTAKE AND THIS IS OUT OF THE CHARACTER.

Maybe Spider-man does. Or Indiana Jones. Or Wolverine. Or Batman. Or me and you.

But Superman is none of the above. He is more.

Yes, he has human emotions. But his emotions are still based on something that makes him more than us. His sense of right and wrong, his integrity.

Because the GA and Marvel fans who never read great stories from the comics have the stupid idea that Superman is boring and MR perfect, Singer came to Superman with the Marvel idea to humanize Superman by making him like every character in the Marvel Universe, like X-men.

A loner, a stranger, a reject of the society.

However, the basic idea of Superman is that even in the greatest tragedy that has ever happened to him, wich is Krypton exploding when he was baby, he still learned the lesson of hope, wich is his parents making the sacrifice to save him.

Superman is not a Marvel character and shouldn`t be treated as so.

Singer made the character himself. A lone, strange, reject. However Superman is not himself, me, you, mego joe or anyone. This is great in every type of movie. NOT A SUPERMAN MOVIE. Because He is SUPERman.

He is more.

The 2nd mistake is obviously not telling the world where he is going.

Superman is the kind of the character that is a leader. He gives speeches to the world. See SIV, Lois & Clark, etc. He is the kind of character that is TRUTH AND JUSTICE personalized.

The Superman i know the moment he found about about the existence of Krypton would make a public conference and say something like this.

"People of Earth. I`ve always devoted my life to help as much as i can. With the possibility of Krypton being alive, there is a possibility that more superpowered people would come to Earth like what happened so i have to go back to see if theres any possible threats. I`m the one one who can do this."

He would leave and even if Lois published the article, people would still think Superman made the right move. And even her would think twice before publishing it because in the end, everybody would know that Superman made the right move.

Wich is, to be a hero. Put people first before himself.

In SR, he doesnt say goodbye to anybody, so, superman leaves to krypton because he is felling lonely and hurt lois.

2 inconsistencies that is a proof that Superman acted out of character IN THIS MOVIE AND that reflects that Singer doesnt know the character at all. At least not when he made SR.

He can make Man of Steel a great movie we all can love and thats what me as a fan want and hope.

But he didnt do it with SR. He tried his best`m sure and made SR with all his best intentions. But that wasnt enough.

HE JUST NEEDS TO DO MORE.

 

[LexCorp]

I don't think anyone can argure the fact that he left with out saying good bye to anyone.

 

[Angeloz]

No they're saying it's unSupermanly. Kinda like unamerican and unaustralian here.

Angeloz

 

[LexCorp]

t:

No they're saying it's unSupermanly. Kinda like unamerican and unaustralian here.

Angeloz

Yeah that's what I meant

 

[Angeloz]

So you've decided on an evil signature LexCorp. Another agenda?

Angeloz

 

[LexCorp]

So you've decided on an evil signature LexCorp. Another agenda?

Angeloz

Yes my sig is important or rather it is not important. Point is everyone has something in there sig. Link, saying, posts or something they want you to read. My agenda for my sig, to be pointless but still waste people time.

Evil laugh t:

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I should rephrase, not so much a big way just a little way. He has left Earth before in JLA taking a judgemental position sometimes in the tower.

Exactly, this i agree with.

Well, I don't think there's any indication of him ever doing anything that is akin to the lack of sexual responsibility shown in SR, nor has he ever been shown to become a parent without first being married. To me that's a pretty big jump for the Big Blue Boyscout to make w/o a solid story with plausible and believable motivation.

Nor has he ever chosen to hurt Lois intentionally when he could have avoided it.

He was in a committed relationship with Lois in the 70's before she knew who Superman was, so its not that different. As i have said before, i just think Singer modernised their relationship for younger and more modern audiences. Sex is a lot more casual these days, no matter how moral you are.

 

[LexCorp]

He was in a committed relationship with Lois in the 70's before she knew who Superman was, so its not that different. As i have said before, i just think Singer modernised their relationship for younger and more modern audiences. Sex is a lot more casual these days, no matter how moral you are.

Which is a point I made ealier about the danger of modernisation.