What can DC/WB do now to move forward? Is there hope?

[TheCommissioner]

and its pretty f'd up that we have such a cavalier attitude about the virulent attitude the fandom has

 

[MadVillainy]

I dont think anyone of sense would debate that

 

[MbJ]

It's not just Superman itself. In this case, you're given the burden of essentially launching an entire huge franchise for WB, and if it doesn't start on the right foot then there can be trouble.

I'm sure behind the scenes the execs have had harsh words with Snyder over some of this controversy.

 

[BestGirl]

I hope the execs have had some harsh words for one another after approving that awful script.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

It's not just Superman itself. In this case, you're given the burden of essentially launching an entire huge franchise for WB, and if it doesn't start on the right foot then there can be trouble.

I'm sure behind the scenes the execs have had harsh words with Snyder over some of this controversy.

I bet money that whatever reception Justice League ends up getting, Snyder is exiting directorial duties for any future DC movie. As much as the BVSUC is an improvement on the BVSTC I don't think it would have gotten glowing reception. The editing, more Clark, and the Africa/bullet subplot where improvements. But you still got the JL emails, the "granny's peach tea sequence, Martha scene, etc.

I really thought BVS was in the running for highest grossing movie of 2016, the same year we have Captain America Civil War, Finding Dory, and a Star Wars movie all coming out. The fact it couldn't crack even 900 million dollars really says something about how it got received by general audiences.

 

[jmc]

It will forever puzzle me why WB decided to do the JL scheduling as they did. My only conclusion is they did it to make themselves look confident in BvS. To this day I still struggle to understand how there was such a lack of oversight on this project.

 

[MadVillainy]

They thought they had a slam dunk. I dont think they cared about the quality and thought the concept alone would provide them with a lot of success. And to be fair it's very similar to what Marvel did. By the time Thor and Cap were released, the first Avengers was already filming. Imagine if Thor and TFA were received poorly. Sure they still had RDJ to fall back on, but there was still the possibility

 

[jmc]

I think the difference is RDJ was always a lifeline for them after IM1. Had the other movies not done so great I think you'll find at worst Avengers would have been a de facto IM3 movie with Cap, Thor and Hulk in it. If IM1 wasn't so successful I imagine Avengers probably would have taken a few years more to come to screen, I don't think they would have started production on the movie until well after Cap had come out.

 

[brandeezy89]

I wouldnt be surprised if he comes back.

I wanna interview Snyder and sees how he does it because his career trajectory doesn't make any logical sense.

-Directs smash hit 300, so WB says: "Here make this R rated, philosophical superhero movie (Watchmen)". Makes sense
-Watchmen has mixed response and doesn't do that well at the box office. WB: "Eh that's fine. Go make your $80 million animated owls movie"
-Legend of the Guardians doesn't do that well financially or critically. WB: "Zack baby don't worry about it. Go make your $80 million original property featuring a predominately women cast with no major stars that's about some weird convuluted thing."
-Sucker Punch doesn't do well. WB: "Yeah Sucker Punch didn't do well, but we have Superman for you. One of the most iconic characters or all time and you're going to launch our DC Cinematic Universe..."

It's just incredible how no matter how he falters, financially or critically they keep giving him more responsibility, more iconic things, and more power when it comes to making films. Remove what you think of his films. Even if you think he's one of the top directors dead or alive, logically it makes no sense. It's crazy to me, but I definitely want to know how he does it.

That's because WB is a filmmaker studio. It's the same reason why The Wachowskis kept getting work with the studio after 2 bombs

 

[MbJ]

That's because WB is a filmmaker studio. It's the same reason why The Wachowskis kept getting work with the studio after 2 bombs

Also, WB has been having troubles getting new franchises off the ground. They haven't had a really big original hit in years and are now obsessed with trying to rehash things that worked in the past, which is why they've been doubling down on two things that were huge hits for them in the early 2000's: Superheroes and Harry Potter. Even if Snyder hadn't had a hit in years, the fact that he had a massive hit with 300 was probably enough to get him in their good graces. It's very consistent with the "We need to turn back the clock to 2008" mindset that seems to have pervaded their films.

And then of course, at least initially, WB tried to market their director-driven approach to superhero films as a major selling point. Marvel Studios was getting bad press over high profile incidents of directors saying the execs are control freaks and don't respect their artist' integrity, so WB telling the public that they have a stacked roster of creative visionaries who have been given carte blanche to do whatever they wanted probably seemed like a great idea at the time. But then, ya know, Zod and "MARTHA! SAVE! MARTHA!!!!"

 

[Erzengel]

Also why WB probably threw enough money at JK Rowling to do like 5 of those Fantastic Beasts movies.

 

[MadVillainy]

Sure let's say theyre a "filmmaker studio." I dont know the point that is trying to get made with that.

Im pretty sure every studio does the same thing: you make a hit, they keep hiring you. And if it's not every studio, it's a lot of them. Before he jumped to Star Wars, JJ Abrams kept making movies with Paramount due to his initial success with MI:III. Seth Rogen keeps making hits for SONY so he keeps getting hired by SONY. I can go on. Im not saying every film they make will be with one studio, but still.

The difference is usually when someone stops making hits, they stopped getting hired. Or at the least they don't throw more money & responsibility at them.

So it still doesn't make sense to me why they would keep hiring Snyder for bigger and bigger projects.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Honestly can't answer that question

All I can say his Snyder has two things going for him, he probably has good connections at WB. And he's really enthusiastic about everything he does.


Also in retrospect BVS was announced back in SDCC about a little over a month after MOS. And the initial goal was to get the movie out by 2015. Snyder/Goyer claim to be the guys that pitched a Batman/Superman crossover movie that would also launch a cinematic universe.

Probably positioned themselves as the only people who could feasibly get the movie out in 2015, even though it turned out they couldn't.

 

[batfreakforever]

I've always got hope because of Snyder, Goyer, Johns and Affleck. Always.
3 movies in and I couldn't be more happier.
Man of Steel finally had the Superman I'd always wanted on film.
BvS Batman was a dream come true because I loved the Dark knight returns story and the Miller Batman.
Wonder Woman was better than I'd imagined and Suicide Squad had Harley Quinn the highlight of Squad and the Joker was different from Nicholson and Ledgers Joker that he still was the Joker. I would of liked more of him in the theatrical version but it seems I will get my wish in the extended cut of Suicide Squad.
Look forward to seeing WW and I can only imagine how mind blowing awesome Justice League will be because Snyder knows action and comics.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

WB has a hard time sticking to their guns and supporting their choices? I'm starting to think they are doing more damage than good; I have always felt BvS was not Snyder's/Terrio's initial project but that they were forced to add things into the story they didn't want to make it a JL launching pad. Then after Zack does the best with their demands they edit it to Hades.
And now they are cutting their actors off at the knees by having competing characters on TV and the big screen instead of committing to one vision of the character at a time resulting in divided loyalties. First with Grant/Ezra as Flash now with Henry/Tyler as Superman.
Plus they probably won't learn to stay out of the way because of the SS success.
Even though I love BvS theatrical cut, I am starting to realize that most mistakes come from WB not Snyder or the actors....except for Superman not talking. That's all on Zack and Chris.

 

[MbJ]

And now they are cutting their actors off at the knees by having competing characters on TV and the big screen instead of committing to one vision of the character at a time resulting in divided loyalties. First with Grant/Ezra as Flash now with Henry/Tyler as Superman.

The Flash TV show predates Ezra Miller's casting by quite a bit. The only way that could've been avoided would have been to cancel a popular TV show just so it doesn't conflict with the movie, which would have been the height of stupidity and gotten the DCEU even more backlash (especially if like the DCEU version of Superman and the Suicide Squad, their Flash becomes another divisive character).

Superman was an inevitability. You can't do a show about one of his spin-off characters and then never ever have him show up. The first season was already pushing things by conveniently never having him around whenever he logically should have been. And it also had nothing to do with dividing fan loyalties; people were already criticizing Cavill's Superman way before Hoechlin was cast or before they even announced Superman would be appearing in Season 2. Not allowing the TV shows to do their own version of Superman wouldn't have resulted in Cavill's Superman magically becoming unanimously loved.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

I initially didn't think much of the WB AT&T acquisition. But now rumors are starting to circle of AT&T "cleaning house" with Kevin T. And Greg Silverman on the chopping block.

Thoughts?

 

[nyyarod]

Good. Someone needs to be held accountable for their terrible decisions with these movies.

 

[jmc]

Something tells me not much will change. AT&T are more than likely looking for content to sell and not necessarily looking to get into content creation.

 

[titansupes]

I believe Poinboy mentioned Snyder wasn't even in the top five directors on WB's list. From what has been indicated, essentially every first choice director turned MoS down because they didn't want the burden of doing a modern Superman movie.

I think both Aronofsky and Jones wanted the job, but WB thought the former would take too long to develop it, and the latter pitched his Superman as Dr. Manhatten-esque, so they turned him down.

 

[Superchan]

I think both Aronofsky and Jones wanted the job, but WB thought the former would take too long to develop it, and the latter pitched his Superman as Dr. Manhatten-esque, so they turned him down.

Don't forget that Mathew Vaughn was also keen on doing superman (his own take and not MOS) and JJ Abrahams indicated that he'd like to go back and finish what he started with superman someday and I'm almost certain that he's one of the 3 directors that WB are talking to right now.

 

[TheCommissioner]

looks like AT&T is set to acquire Time Warner (and all its properties) for about $80 Billion

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

The Flash TV show predates Ezra Miller's casting by quite a bit. The only way that could've been avoided would have been to cancel a popular TV show just so it doesn't conflict with the movie, which would have been the height of stupidity and gotten the DCEU even more backlash (especially if like the DCEU version of Superman and the Suicide Squad, their Flash becomes another divisive character).

Superman was an inevitability. You can't do a show about one of his spin-off characters and then never ever have him show up. The first season was already pushing things by conveniently never having him around whenever he logically should have been. And it also had nothing to do with dividing fan loyalties; people were already criticizing Cavill's Superman way before Hoechlin was cast or before they even announced Superman would be appearing in Season 2. Not allowing the TV shows to do their own version of Superman wouldn't have resulted in Cavill's Superman magically becoming unanimously loved.

I never stated that the Flash TV show should be canceled, and I definitely don't think Grant can be a movie actor, but there has to be a way to have TV and movies without conflicts. I still question why Ezra is Barry Allen and not Wally West seeing as how his personality fits more with the JLU Flash.
And as for Superman, Snyder and co were working to show people a different Superman ala the comics and the 90s TV shows and I support that decision. But on TV, as always, they go back to the lame Christopher Reeves chariacature of Superman and Clark. To me that is WB having their cake and eating it to; they want a more realistic human Superman that will be more successful than Singers rehash then instead of supporting their request for that more human Superman they do the same ole song and dance on TV.
Maybe I'm too sensitive because I am tired of pot shots at DCEU Superman, but it seems like some of WBs decisions cut their people off at the knees. And it goes beyond the actors but to their directors as well.
I guess it shouldn't really matter because WB is never going to be loyal to one universe at a time because they will always have movies TV and DVDs at the same time.

 

[MbJ]

I never stated that the Flash TV show should be canceled, and I definitely don't think Grant can be a movie actor, but there has to be a way to have TV and movies without conflicts. I still question why Ezra is Barry Allen and not Wally West seeing as how his personality fits more with the JLU Flash.

It's still essentially the same problem since you still have wildly different versions of a character with the same name. And even if they'd used Wally instead, Wally is already on the Flash show too.

And as for Superman, Snyder and co were working to show people a different Superman ala the comics and the 90s TV shows and I support that decision. But on TV, as always, they go back to the lame Christopher Reeves chariacature of Superman and Clark. To me that is WB having their cake and eating it to; they want a more realistic human Superman that will be more successful than Singers rehash then instead of supporting their request for that more human Superman they do the same ole song and dance on TV.
Maybe I'm too sensitive because I am tired of pot shots at DCEU Superman, but it seems like some of WBs decisions cut their people off at the knees. And it goes beyond the actors but to their directors as well.
I guess it shouldn't really matter because WB is never going to be loyal to one universe at a time because they will always have movies TV and DVDs at the same time.

I definitely think that's you being sensitive (no offense intended). Like I said, that's not "cutting people off at the knees." There were already a lot of people who didn't like the DCEU version of Superman, so Supergirl having a version of the character that people are praising has less to do with DC not supporting the movies or Henry Cavill and more to do with maybe the DCEU version just having a bunch of conceptual problems that have been there from the beginning.

Like I said, what was the other option? Just not use Superman even though it was increasingly becoming nonsensical for him to never show up?

 

[TheCommissioner]

I initially didn't think much of the WB AT&T acquisition. But now rumors are starting to circle of AT&T "cleaning house" with Kevin T. And Greg Silverman on the chopping block.

Thoughts?

much like when Comcast bought NBC, they go through EVERYTHING, look for what works and what doesn't, do a bit of housecleaning

Disney did the same thing when they bought Marvel and LucasFilm

so I expect AT&T will look at everything, DC included, see what works, whats profitable and what isn't and move forward from there