Justice League What Sense Does it Make to Reboot Batman?

[thorstone]

You're going into Justice League and you're going to reboot the biggest franchise instead of exploiting the popularity of that continuity (in the absence of Nolan directing)?

If the central reason people think that the Batman of the Dark Knight trilogy can't work in the world of Man of Steel is because that version of Batman is too real then they need to go back and watch all three movies again. Batman falls from impossible heights in the first and second films, there is a microwave bomb in the first film, Batman drives a car that can jump from roof to roof, the car transforms into a bike which through the magic of CGI can roll, and in the third film he has a helicopter that could never practically fly in a million years.

If there are no plans for future solo Batman films within the Dark Knight continuity; then what is the reason for not using that Batman?

Why should Batman be rebooted when it's Wonder Woman and The Flash who need solo films?

 

[shauner111]

Could never practically fly in a million years? That's a bit much lol.

I do agree that if WB has no immediate plans (this decade) for solo Batman movies, then yes, they should just use Bale's Batman. I wouldn't mind if everything revolved around Cavill's Superman...as in...there's no solo films for Batman, Flash, Wonder Woman or Green Lantern and they just appear exclusively to Justice League while the only solo franchise is a Man Of Steel trilogy. OK I would go for that. But if we're getting a movie for Diana etc, then we'll need new Batman movies too no? Otherwise why the hell wouldn't you just use TDK trilogy?

 

[Shikamaru]

Check the first link in my signature.

On second thought, I'll just quote it and post it.

You're thinking short term. You have to think long term. In the long run using a rebooted Batman for JL will be far more beneficial to WB from a financial point of view.

Let's face it: If they're smart, WB is not going to build a massive movie universe just to discard it in a few years after JL. Much like Marvel, they will most likely continue their universe James Bond style with an endless of possibilities for stories (AKA endless of possibilities for movies which = endless of possibilities for money) as opposed to just rebooting the whole thing within a decade.

Say you bring Bale's Batman back for JL. Yes, the movie makes tons of money. But what do you do after that? You've essentially trapped Batman in JL territory with no solo films whatsoever. JL is not going to be the only DC film that WB will make money off. Every other character - Superman, Flash, WW, and the rest - will continue to get solo films as time passes while Batman will be used exclusively for JL because 1) You can't bring Batman back in Gotham for a solo movie after TDKR and 2) Solo films with John Blake as Batman will never be anywhere as successful as solo films with Bruce Wayne because he lacks both the full iconic image of Batman and the full story potential of Batman (lack of classic villains, big stories involving Bruce, etc.)

Now why would WB not want more solo movies of their biggest cash cow? They obviously would and they wouldn't be able to get that if they bring Nolan's Batman back, or at least not the full amount of green cheese that you can get from a Batman film.

And let's face it. Batman is much larger than Nolan and Bale. It's not like the JL film will have this huge drop at the box office if they use a new Batman as opposed to what they could've made with Nolan's Batman, especially if the new Batman is the prep time mastermind from the comics (prep time Batman would be a huge win with the general audience). The movie will be a big hit either way. Heck, if they get a Batman reboot out before JL happens, we might not even see a drop at all if the reboot is just a good as TDKT and the audience loves it. But assuming that there will be that small drop - which is in the worst case scenario of what can happen - why would you think that small difference is worth throwing away all the money and potential that you would get from future JL films and future solo films with Batman? It isn't. And once you establish that new Batman to the GA, no future JL sequels and solo films will have the "This isn't the same Batman" stigma, if that stigma would even be there in the first place. Once you pass that point, the new Batman will be just as successful as the Nolan one or even more assuming that he is acted + written well. All that is why in the long run, rebooting Batman will be far more beneficial to WB.

Not to mention that WB will not want to ruin their relationship with Nolan. He makes tons of big bucks for them with each movie. Messing with his wishes to keep the TDK trilogy as stand-alone is not a smart move in that regard.

Rebooting Batman for JL makes a lot more sense no matter what way you look at it. This is what people like Great Minds don't understand.

 

[bluearth]

I think theres several problems.

Batman is believed dead at the end of the trilogy. Bring him back and you ruin the ending of Rises.

Continuing the Nolan Batman means more of the same. We cant have a new take on the Joker. The new Joker will be stuck doing Heath Ledger imitations instead of putting his own spin on the character.

Its going to end up like Superman Returns. A different crew trying to keep the same style and theme as the original 1978 movie. Its going to be Brandon Routh imitating CHristopher Reeve and Kate Bosworth imitating Margot Kidder all over again.

We need a fresh new take on Batman. It will be easier and better for the filming crew and for the audience.

 

[shauner111]

I do think Thorstone means using Blake though. I remember him being a supporter of that. Which would suck especially if they're planning a World's Finest. You need that Bruce and Clark meeting. But I was a fan of the idea originally when it was rumored like 7 months ago, because logically it would work within the universe. Bruce would retire and maybe have a small role putting the League together while Blake is Batman with the League. But there's too much of an attraction to the whole Bruce Wayne/Batman - Clark Kent/Superman concept.

 

[jonathancrane]

The studio has made it clear that they do not want Bale and Nolan's interpretations continued, and both have made it clear that they have no interest in returning. Thus, the matter is sealed: even if the studio - by some impossible chance-forced both of them to return, what the audience would have would be contributions that are provided from creators who are not investing themselves into the project, and it would show: phoned in contributions are detrimental to any production.

From the narrative standpoint, it is logical to reboot the series: Nolan's trilogy made any continuation almost impossible: what few drops they could squeeze from this dry and shriveled lemon would not make any lemonade. Think about it: Wayne Manor's gone, the apartment is gone, Batman is dead, Bruce is happily married, and Alfred's gone, and Robin is not Robin in the traditional sense. Reversing that would be unwise and ruin the trilogy and create a depressisng film: who wants to see a marriage disintegrate? Who wants to see a nearly mentally and physically broken man take on the suit? If he could not defeat Bane in TDKR, then he would not be able to take on any of the foes of the Justice League.

Again, making a sequel to the trilogy is akin to making a sequel to the Good, the Bad & the Ugly: while I love the hell out of 'High Plains Drifter' the viewing experience is compromised since it undoes all of the characterization from the Leone films.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well for one thing, Nolan didn't really build up much of a universe. All the villains are dead. Bruce Wayne faked his death, Alfred quit, and they destroyed everything bat-related. Even Wayne Manor is gone.

There are no future plans for the Nolan universe because the universe is finished. Nolan burned every bridge.

Or what the guy above me stated more eloquently.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Well for one thing, Nolan didn't really build up much of a universe. All the villains are dead. Bruce Wayne faked his death, Alfred quit, and they destroyed everything bat-related. Even Wayne Manor is gone.

There are no future plans for the Nolan universe because the universe is finished. Nolan burned every bridge.

Nolan left a new batman so...

Joseph Gordon Levitt is a big enough name for the general audience.But I think WB and Goyer will go a different way.

 

[dnno1]

Check the first link in my signature.

On second thought, I'll just quote it and post it.

All I can say is that the "Die Hard" franchise has been running longer than the Batman film franchise (if you exclude the films made before "Batman '89")... with the same actor in the lead role (so much for the argument of a new guy for the long run). I think it's more of a risk than it is a benefit to introduce a new Batman to a audience that is still familiar with a guy like Christian Bale who has been everyone's batman for the past 8 years. If the new guy doesn't fair well with audiences then you will have to reboot again, and that's time and money. In my opinion, it is stupid to not even approach Bale with an offer to star in the role for future films (even if it's for one or two pictures) knowing that the guy has made over $2.4 billion for you in the past. The minute a film like that fails people will be asking about that.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Nolan left a new batman so...

Joseph Gordon Levitt is a big enough name for the general audience.But I think WB and Goyer will go a different way.

Oh please. Let's not have any pretenders.

Give us Bruce Wayne. Do it right, or don't do it at all.

 

[dnno1]

Oh please. Let's not have any pretenders.

Give us Bruce Wayne. Do it right, or don't do it at all.

This^

 

[Black Narcissus]

Oh please. Let's not have any pretenders.

Give us Bruce Wayne. Do it right, or don't do it at all.

I completely agree with you, but you said nolan had burned every bridge, which isn't true.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I completely agree with you, but you said nolan had burned every bridge, which isn't true.

If you call that a bridge... okay. Maybe if that Robin guy travels the world, trains with ninjas, and gets a company with deep pockets to back him up, then we can talk.

Otherwise he's just some guy who dresses up as Batman.

 

[Black Narcissus]

If you call that a bridge... okay. Maybe if that Robin guy travels the world, trains with ninjas, and gets a company with deep pockets to back him up, then we can talk.

Otherwise he's just some guy who dresses up as Batman.

The magic of cinema! Enter training montage and huzzah...A kick ass Batman.

Lucius and Gordon would definitely help him.

Some guy dressed as Batman? The GA won't care. I'm not saying this is the way to go, but it's possible to continue the storyline.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Some guy dressed as Batman? The GA won't care. I'm not saying this is the way to go, but it's possible to continue the storyline.

I dunno, even the general audience knows who the real Batman is.

Still, you'd really have to bend over backwards just to make that work. And for what? So we can save the grand universe Nolan set up?

Just start over.

 

[thorstone]

What the general audience knows is that Bruce Wayne faked his death and passed on the title of Batman to Robin. Bale is not coming back, Nolan doesn't own Batman, and Warner is free to bring back JGL, Freeman, and Oldman for Justice League.

There was absolute zero purpose in revealing that Blake was Robin at the end if there was no plan for continuity. There was zero purpose in creating a new bat signal or showing Robin enter the bat cave if there is no more Batman in that continuity.

 

[Thundercrack85]

What the general audience knows is that Bruce Wayne faked his death and passed on the title of Batman to Robin. Bale is not coming back, Nolan doesn't own Batman, and Warner is free to bring back JGL, Freeman, and Oldman for Justice League.

There was absolute zero purpose in revealing that Blake was Robin at the end if there was no plan for continuity. There was zero purpose in creating a new bat signal or showing Robin enter the bat cave if there is no more Batman in that continuity.

I agree, there was zero purpose. It takes more than a cave with some equipment to be Batman. It takes Bruce Wayne.

The people want a real Batman, not a pseudo-Robin pretending. I say pseudo, because he never even got proper training from Batman.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

it doesn't. but what are you gonna do? we can talk about things we'd change in hindsight, but what good would it do? watching rises again to day, i wish somethings where different, that it would be a part of the universe, but we're past that. it's time to move on.

 

[Thundercrack85]

In the future stipulate that directors don't burn every bridge.

Or at least leave more of a sequel hook than a Robin cameo.

 

[shauner111]

Nolan left a new batman so...

Joseph Gordon Levitt is a big enough name for the general audience.But I think WB and Goyer will go a different way.

Yeah JGL is the right age to take up a franchise of 1 solo film and a couple of team-ups. I think he's the same age as Gosling. But JGL looks like he's in his late 20s.

Im sure theyre going a different route. A full-on reboot. But I would actually be fine with JGL playing a version of Batman if he was wearing a more high-tech suit for combat (Beyond-esque) AND if Bale's Bruce Wayne at least had a small role. More than a brief cameo, id say something like the amount of scenes Bruce Willis got in Expendables 2. Kind of in that role too, where he's sort of put this team together and Stallone's character has private words with him (which would be Superman in this case).

That's the ONLY way I would be down with JGL as Batman in Justice League. If Bruce was there having scenes with Clark once in a while and somehow linked to the inception of the Justice League.

Technically they could even promote it as a sort-of soft reboot since it's a new Batman with different directors.

Of course if they did a World's Finest it would be a joke. They need Bruce's Batman so that's Bale or a reboot for me. And yes im down for the reboot as long as it's done properly. But im at a point with JLA where I really don't care if it's done like the source material. Ill take some Bale moments, a Hathaway cameo, a Amy Adams cameo then big stars like JGL, Gosling, Hunnam, BLunt etc mixed with younger unknowns.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

1- Christian Bale would probably not return: Christian Bale, whether or not you like it, is the Batman of the previous series, without him, the interconnectedness loses its charm, and therefore you might as well reboot. As of last week, nobody has approached Christian to reprise his role as Batman, it is well known that he loves his role and is actually open to returning, but he does seem very reluctant to do so now without Chris Nolan.

1A- Using Joseph Gordon-Levitt as the Batman of the Justice League universe is quite possibly the worst idea to happen with WB and Batman since making Joel Schumaccer make 2 hour toy advertisements instead of the films he wanted: 72 years Batman and Superman have been portrayed in live action, but not once have they been portrayed on screen together. They are the two biggest icons of superherodom and in their first onscreen encounter Bruce Wayne should not be replaced with Robin.

2- Chris Nolan is definitely not returning: Now this might not pose as much of a problem, but he was the ultimate creative control on the series and Christian does show allegiance to him, as does David Goyer and obviously, his brother who may not want to work on any further films without him.

3- The Dark Knight Rises left Bruce in a place where him continuing on as Batman is very unlikely, at the very least there would be no more solo adventures with him as Batman (again not a huge problem, but still a problem). The point of the film was to let go of Batman because it caused him pain.


Most of these problems can be overcome, without much difficulty, and if Bale said he'd come back I'd be ecstatic, but it just doesn't seem like the chips are falling that way.

 

[dnno1]

What the general audience knows is that Bruce Wayne faked his death and passed on the title of Batman to Robin. Bale is not coming back, Nolan doesn't own Batman, and Warner is free to bring back JGL, Freeman, and Oldman for Justice League.

There was absolute zero purpose in revealing that Blake was Robin at the end if there was no plan for continuity. There was zero purpose in creating a new bat signal or showing Robin enter the bat cave if there is no more Batman in that continuity.

What the studio knows is that particular Batman made almost $2.5 billion and it would be stupid to not use that Batman again in future films. Disney is doing it with Iron Man so why can't the WB?

1- Christian Bale would probably not return: Christian Bale, whether or not you like it, is the Batman of the previous series, without him, the interconnectedness loses its charm, and therefore you might as well reboot. As of last week, nobody has approached Christian to reprise his role as Batman, it is well known that he loves his role and is actually open to returning, but he does seem very reluctant to do so now without Chris Nolan.

1A- Using Joseph Gordon-Levitt as the Batman of the Justice League universe is quite possibly the worst idea to happen with WB and Batman since making Joel Schumaccer make 2 hour toy advertisements instead of the films he wanted: 72 years Batman and Superman have been portrayed in live action, but not once have they been portrayed on screen together. They are the two biggest icons of superherodom and in their first onscreen encounter Bruce Wayne should not be replaced with Robin.

2- Chris Nolan is definitely not returning: Now this might not pose as much of a problem, but he was the ultimate creative control on the series and Christian does show allegiance to him, as does David Goyer and obviously, his brother who may not want to work on any further films without him.

3- The Dark Knight Rises left Bruce in a place where him continuing on as Batman is very unlikely, at the very least there would be no more solo adventures with him as Batman (again not a huge problem, but still a problem). The point of the film was to let go of Batman because it caused him pain.


Most of these problems can be overcome, without much difficulty, and if Bale said he'd come back I'd be ecstatic, but it just doesn't seem like the chips are falling that way.

We still don't know if Bale won't return. The studio never approached him. For that matter, the studio hasn't approached anyone that we know of for that role.

 

[Matt.S99]

Yes we do. Bale is not returning. Lets give up on the delusion. It's obviously not happening.

 

[jonathancrane]

In an interview he gave a few weeks ago, he made it clear he has no intention of returning: he said something along the lines of "not wanting to be greedy" and that he wants to pass on the torch to the next guy, who would take the character to Justice League.

Of course, we all know that is a smokescreen on his part...

 

[shauner111]

Of course the studio approached him. You guys are crazy if you still think a massive studio like WB didn't talk with Bale when he's their 2.5 billion dollar Batman.