Arrow What should be the next Arrow?

[mr. peasant]

I have changed my mind.
If a Batman reboot is a little way off, I think a tv show would be a great choice.

With the constraints of live action tv, it offers alot of chances to do more detective stuff
Could really flesh out the GCPD and have Bullock & Montoya.
You can also have alot of development for supporting characters like Alfred, Gordon, Barbara, Dick.
later seasons could add Huntress and Batwoman
Being on the CW, relationships would definitely be a focus point. Selina & Talia romance would be perfect for the channel's audience.

Not quite. While the CW does indeed have a tendency to gravitate towards employing love triangles (and rectangles, and pentagons, etc) with its main audience taking to it, you should note it is almost always of the boy/girl/boy variety - and rarely girl/boy/girl, never mind other permutations. At least with the main love triangle.

This can be evidenced by Arrow's Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle, The Vampire Diaries' Stefan/Elena/Damon love triangle (as well as Tyler/Caroline/Klaus), as well as The Secret Circle's Adam/Cassie/Jake. Indeed, this is likely one of the reasons (amongst others, I'm sure) why the audience responded more to Blair than Serena in Gossip Girl, even though the latter was originally pitched, placed and marketed as the main character of the show.

This is not entirely surprising as the audience the CW is trying to target with this tactic are young girls (likely tween to early twenties). Hence why the central character tends to be female, typically with traits or issues that they can relate to, who acts as an audience surrogate for them.


As such, for a Batman setting, rather than using a love triangle, they could employ a "star-crossed lovers" gimmick instead. Or, create a new, original character to be the centre of the love triangle.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Guess you are right though I was kinda going for the Oliver/Laurel/Shado/Felicity thing.

Batman could use the same basic setup as Arrow and be pretty successful.
just switch it to more of a crime/detective show, let Arrow stay more action focused.
Use a villain like Riddler as the big bad.
Replace the island stuff with a little of Bruce's world travel then some League of Shadows.

 

[mr. peasant]

I dunno... still not convinced that a Batman series would be a particularly smart thing to do at this point. Anything a Batman series can do, Arrow can do as well; and vice versa. It would make more sense to create something different.


Speaking on which, here's one that just crossed my mind... What about a Zatanna series? The premise could be something as follows:

Zatanna is just your average (college?) girl when she learns of the death of her estranged father, the master magician Giovanni Zatara, during a seance. She looks into it and discovers that magic is real, that she too has the gift, and that her father died trying to stop an ancient evil. In order to finish what her father started, Zatanna must learn to master magic under the guidance of her father's friend and fellow magician, Sargon who becomes both, a mentor and father figure to the young girl.

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

Zatanna would be interesting I admit. It'll give DC a chance to expand on one of their more popular female characters. And like my SHAZAM! idea the show can delve into the magical side of the DCU. It might work, you know if DC would actually give this a chance.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I dunno... still not convinced that a Batman series would be a particularly smart thing to do at this point. Anything a Batman series can do, Arrow can do as well; and vice versa. It would make more sense to create something different.

True though the thing is,
it would offer them the opportunity to do stuff you just can't do much in the cartoons and you just don't get much time for in the movies.
Thomas Elliot as a childhood friend, more scenes with Bruce's parents, Harvey Dent as a friend,
Talia maybe with Damian much later on.
can even expand on stuff like the old Zatara training Bruce thing. or Lady Shiva etc.

The reason I say like Arrow because the way the show is done it really feels like a whole universe.
unlike even BTAS(as great as it was) that felt like "Batman and the guest of the week".

 

[Paradox1]

I have a list

Shazam- it has a history on TV yes as a corny Saturday morning show but you make Billy a teenager give him some normal teenage problems along with his not so normal foster kid status with his extraordinary powers of Shazam problem. Then I think it has a chance he use to be most popular hero for a reason because every kid/teenager fantasizes about being able to beat up bullies and have super powers.

Captain Atom-Visually I admit he's hard to do but he has all the elements of a great show sci-fi , government conspiracies, and a monster of week kinda feel

The Flash-Visually easy to do him being a CSI lab geek lends himself to some procedural elements

Constatine- see supernatural

Jonah Hex-a cowboy with no superpowers in the wild west that comes across the strange how simple is that

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

Paradox: Nice list, I like your picks. I agree SHAZAM! should be made into a tv show.

Captain Atom is an interesting choice (I actually have him in my SHAZAM! cast), Flash I think a lot of people want, Constantine would work as long as the actor was right. Jonah Hex? Sure, why not? Everyone loves a good western.

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

This seems all the more prevelant now that Arrow has concluded season 1 (wow, what an ending) and rumors of Amazon not being dead yet.

So the question remains, what should be the next Arrow?

I'm still for SHAZAM!, it's different, has powers, and doesn't need much character tweaking to start it off.

I've even expanded upon my idea and given some new context on how some of the storylines would play out and who else would be joining the show and how.

Click here to read.

Oh and more art is on the way!

 

[jonathancrane]

Someone's probably posted this already, but, a police procedural set in Gotham would blow everything out of the water.

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

JC: Yeah that's been a recurring theme in this topic is the potential for a "Non-Batman" Gotham series. We've talked GCPD, Nightwing, and others. But the problem is that the names and characters are under the Batman license which mean it most likely wouldn't happen outside of cartoons. The movies just make to much have a live-action series.

 

[Hyde]

I keep hearing about all Batman stuff being off-limits in TV, but what's that all about? I thought that was just a Nolan rule, and he's gone now.

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

It's complicated really. Basically WB wants to make the most it can on the Batman franchise and right now that's in the movies (see: The Nolan Trilogy). Even with the movies stopped they don't want to risk hurting the franchise by making a series that may work. And that applies to all the Bat-Family.

They don't mind making the cartoons cause they see that just appealing to kids and thus it won't hurt the image.

 

[Hyde]

It's complicated really. Basically WB wants to make the most it can on the Batman franchise and right now that's in the movies (see: The Nolan Trilogy). Even with the movies stopped they don't want to risk hurting the franchise by making a series that may work. And that applies to all the Bat-Family.

They don't mind making the cartoons cause they see that just appealing to kids and thus it won't hurt the image.

Well... That's a damn shame. A Batman TV series would bring in the masses

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

I agree. But honestly I don't want a live-action Batman tv series. I'm fine with him being in cartoons and movies. Nightwing? Sure. GCPD? Absolutely. Expand the Batman universe with these shows and it'll make more excited when Batman comes back to the big screen.

What I want DC to do is kind of what they did with Arrow. Take a hero that isn't exactly super famous and but them in their own show. They did the icon with Superman and it worked for ten years. They took a risk with Green Arrow and it worked out great. I want them to take another risk and do a different hero, one that again not everyone would know about.

For me that's SHAZAM! (see link above), but I've heard Firestorm, Cyborg, The Question. Syfy is allegedly doing a Booster Gold series. Let's branch out and have some fun. Let's not just rely on the big guns no matter how awesome a series with them might be.

 

[Justin]

As a non-comic book reader who watched both Arrow and Smallville and has seen all the blockbuster hero movies, I can safely say I wouldn't watch Shazam, Cyborg or Firestorm.

It's not because they are lesser known. I just think their mainstream appeal is very very limited. A boy who says a magic word and becomes like a god is never going to take off in the way a man who puts on a hood and avenges his city by crossing names off a list. It just wouldn't appeal to the mainstream.

Yeah Superman, Batman, Spiderman are all far fetched too, but people grew up with them so they have name appeal.

I could see these lesser heroes on Syfy or something, but not on the level Arrow is.

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

I disagree entirely. And no it's not because I wrote a blog about a SHAZAM! tv show.

I think for some of the character listed their appeal is very high. Cyborg is a member of the Justice League, was a star in Teen Titans, and was on a few episode of Smallville.....just like Green Arrow. And he's huge in the comics right now, that's appeal on multiple levels. Oh and he was in Injustice!

Firestorm I could give you, he's only made a few appearances outside the comics so that might be a hard sell, and the budget just for the costume would be need to be high (see: fiery head).

But for SHAZAM!? Seriously? At one point in time SHAZAM! was the most popular hero of all (before getting sued by the Superman creators). He's been featured in multiple DC cartoons, had his own movie alongside Superman, has multiple gaming appearances, and right now is the fans most requested single series wish. SHAZAM! is rocking right now because of Geoff Johns. Why not use that momentum to make a show?

And for the record Billy doesn't become a god, he becomes earths mightiest mortal. Mortal. As in he can bleed and die. That's actually one of the things I modeled my idea after is the fact that Billy doesn't know how to use his full power yet. And just because he's a superhero doesn't mean he knows how to fight, or to control magic. It's a process, like Smallville, but it has a mission and direction, like Arrow.

Part of the appeal of doing the SHAZAM! show for me is the character of Billy Batson. I've talked to a lot of fans who can't relate to Superman or Ollie and thus didn't like the shows as much as they could have. With Billy Batson and him being an orphan and suddenly being thrown into a new life with a new family I think will relate to his struggles.

And to wrap this up I wouldn't have considered Green Arrow a choice for a title show. I only knew him from the Justice League cartoon. I didn't watch Smallville. So let's give these characters a chance.

 

[Justin]

I disagree entirely.

Yes. But you are a comic book reader who knows the subject material. And I am the mainstream person that the show would need to attract to be as successful as Arrow or Smallville.

I'm not saying they couldn't make a good show. But unless it had a really really good trailer, I probably wouldn't watch it, and I doubt my brother, best friend and father (all Arrow fans) would either. So in that way, it's not as mainstream accessible as other titles.

Perhaps if he appeared in a big movie or something then it could work. I don't think Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D would be as popular as it's likely to be had it not been for the Avengers being a huge mainstream hit.

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

That's only true to an extent. Yes I'm a comic book reader but the characters I listed above I've only read a certain amount of their history. Cyborg, Firestorm, and SHAZAM! I read about in the New 52 Justice League comic that's it.

I can honestly saw I haven't read any Green Arrow material before watching Arrow. I read some stuff on the show online and decided to give it a shot. That's what a lot of people did then and I think that's what others will do with these shows.

And though a trailer is important it shouldn't dictate whether you watch a show or not.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D is actually a perfect example of this, they took a 2nd-tier yet popular character in Coulson and gave him his own show. I don't know whether it'll succeed (i'm still going to watch it) but it's Marvel taking a risk on it. Now it's DC's turn to up the ante.

 

[mr. peasant]

That's only true to an extent. Yes I'm a comic book reader but the characters I listed above I've only read a certain amount of their history. Cyborg, Firestorm, and SHAZAM! I read about in the New 52 Justice League comic that's it.

Problem is that the average viewer needed for a show to survive can be counted to have read even less than that - namely, nil.


Cyborg would have a number of challenges in getting off the ground. In recent memory, the show most comparable to it in terms of premise would be the Bionic Woman revival; which was a colossal failure financially as it had low ratings and had to be cancelled within a few episodes. In addition, the show would face an additional challenge in the form of the title character's cybernetic prostheses. If done simplistically, it would look cheap and terrible. On the flip side, doing it properly would be expensive and/or time consuming; which may be impractical to perform on a regular basis. For instance, The Sarah Connor Chronicles used the cyborg makeup infrequently and sparingly.


Likewise SHAZAM! would have tremendous prejudice to overcome in that its lead character is a child. Even ignoring the huge challenge of finding a sufficiently talented child actor brave enough to carry such a heavy burden and stress, you should note that there aren't many - if at all any - prime time television shows that feature a child as the main character. The problem is that many teen and adult viewers (who make up the majority of of the population; and thus the viewing population as well) find such characters unrelatable and worse, annoying. The latter issue can be seen by how the "kid" characters tend to be the least liked/tolerated characters on such shows.


Of that short list you made, that leaves Firestorm. While I don't know much about the character, what I've read and seen of his appearance makes me think it would be too special effects heavy for a TV budget and timescale.

 

[Paradox1]

You could make Billy batson a teenager around 15-16yrs old. I think a actual kid would be terrible such as a pre teen is for Saturday mornings. However if the show took place when Billy was entering high school then I think that works better. I think Shazam could make a great show since every kid has a fantasy about being powerful.

 

[Project862006]

i know it's not dc but i would love a daredevil tv series done like arrow

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

Mr. Peasant: So how do you explain Arrow? It worked because it was well written and people gave it a chance. S.H.I.E.L.D is most likely given the same chance because peopole know Coulson from the movies but what else do we know about the character? To your other points Cyborg would be hard to do I've admitted it before (and I said Firestorm would be REALLY hard to do on a budget) but there is a way to get around such problems. Cyborg was featured on Smallville to good effect so I know it could be done.

As for SHAZAM! I've stated in my blog (again link here) my version of Billy Batson is 16-18 years old depending on how the writer chooses to stage it. This would elimanate the child star problem and give us a more mature version to work with. My Billy has been in an orphan for his whole life and how he is personally/emotionally is a reflection of that. So already I've taken out the biggest problem and added depth to the character. The effects wouldn't be too much of a problem (see: Smallville) and like Arrow you can experiment with some things and have fun.

For example in my idea Billy/SHAZAM! actually forms (eventually over the course of a few seasons) the Teen Titans (or Titans as he refers to them), who wouldn't want to see that? And the list goes on (and the blog goes on....), it could work if they gave it a chance.

Project: Daredevil would be interesting, the tricky thing would be how much they use his "sight" and who they can get as villains. But I think it might be worth a shot.

 

[mr. peasant]

Mr. Peasant: So how do you explain Arrow? It worked because it was well written and people gave it a chance. S.H.I.E.L.D is most likely given the same chance because peopole know Coulson from the movies but what else do we know about the character? To your other points Cyborg would be hard to do I've admitted it before (and I said Firestorm would be REALLY hard to do on a budget) but there is a way to get around such problems. Cyborg was featured on Smallville to good effect so I know it could be done.

Arrow's premise about a marooned rich boy who returns a changed man on a mission to rid his city of crime and corruption, coupled with its gritty realistic setting and heavy martial arts action makes it widely accessible to the general audience in spite of its comic book origins. There's very little there that would make a viewer automatically go "I think I'll skip this" upon hearing about it or seeing a trailer/commercial of it.

With respect to Smallville's Cyborg, the show got away with it by making his cybernetics internal; which if memory serves was the same solution used by the Bionic Woman series and the original Six Million Dollar Man himself. However, doing this for a hypothetical Cyborg series would rob its show of its most distinctive visual element.

As for SHAZAM! I've stated in my blog (again link here) my version of Billy Batson is 16-18 years old depending on how the writer chooses to stage it. This would elimanate the child star problem and give us a more mature version to work with. My Billy has been in an orphan for his whole life and how he is personally/emotionally is a reflection of that. So already I've taken out the biggest problem and added depth to the character. The effects wouldn't be too much of a problem (see: Smallville) and like Arrow you can experiment with some things and have fun.

For example in my idea Billy/SHAZAM! actually forms (eventually over the course of a few seasons) the Teen Titans (or Titans as he refers to them), who wouldn't want to see that? And the list goes on (and the blog goes on....), it could work if they gave it a chance.

Your frequent linking to your blog to support your argument does little to actually strengthen it. It doesn't matter whether or not you are able to come up with a long but convincing argument if the short summary of the premise alienates people. It doesn't matter if a show is well done or everything comes together well if people won't give it a chance in the first place.

As for your idea of making Billy older and more mature, I think it would be a mistake. It reduces the visual contrast and personality mismatch brought by the transformation. One of the most major aspect to Captain Marvel, if I'm not mistaken, is his enthusiastic, idealistic optimism. Much like Superman, he's a boy scout. However, unlike Superman, this is because of his innocence due to him actually being a child. Teens tend to not have this lest they come off as emotionally stunted.

 

[Justin]

Arrow's premise about a marooned rich boy who returns a changed man on a mission to rid his city of crime and corruption, coupled with its gritty realistic setting and heavy martial arts action makes it widely accessible to the general audience in spite of its comic book origins. There's very little there that would make a viewer automatically go "I think I'll skip this" upon hearing about it or seeing a trailer/commercial of it.

So much this.

"My name is Oliver Queen. For five years I was stranded on an island with one goal, survive. Now I will fufil my fathers dying wish. To use the list of names he left me and bring down those who are poisoning my city. To do this I must become someone else. I must become something else".

It sells itself, and to a much wider audience than just people who read Green Arrow. It's just a really cool concept. I was signed on the moment I watched the trailer. In contrast if I heard

"My name is Billy Batson. I'm a kid and when I say the magic word Shazam I turn into the most powerful mortal of all..."

I would pass. It would work as a cartoon or something aimed at children, but I just wouldn't take it seriously. I understand you are passionate about it BMW, but I don't see it having any mainstream appeal.

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

First off I do apologize for the frequent linking to my blog, I constantly update it and it makes me want to make sure that know about it cause again I want this to be the next Arrow.

But back to point.

Mr. Peasant: I hear what you're saying and I can agree with some of it (especially the Cyborg stuff but that's for another topic to battle on, after watching Iron Man 3 I think we could cheat to make it look good) but are you really trying to tell me that people wouldn't want to watch fights that are both intense and physical and have magic?

Cause that's what SHAZAM! would be. It would have fist fights, in my version Billy is trained by WildKat so that he's just a kid who has super-strength he can actually be a formidable opponent. And that's not even going into the magic part of it. He can summon lightning and do other spells that'll be really epic to watch. To use another source to prove this play Injustice: Gods Among Us. They have both SHAZAM! and Black Adam and fighting them is really tough. And making an epic trailer featuring magic isn't hard (see: Harry Potter)

As for your final point in the New 52 version Billy is more like the guy I'm talking about. He's actually more of a jerk in the comics and yet he has the potential to do good which is why the wizard selects him. My version he isn't so much a jerk as he is withdrawn from the years of bad experiences that came with being at the orphanage.

Oh and the age thing can work, I don't want a fully adult SHAZAM! I'd rather have someone who's like 5 or so years older and more built while Billy is lanky. That's how me and my cousin are and it works when you put us next to each other.

Justin: Wow really? Anything would sound crappy if you had it like that.....for instance!

"My name is Oliver Queen, I was alone on an island for years and now that I'm off of it I'm going to wield a bow and arrow and save my city...."

See? Does that sell? Now let me try it with SHAZAM!

"My name is Billy Batson. I was just an orphan living in Fawcett City until one day I met the wizard. He told me that magic was returning to the world and that many would come to steal it. Worst of all his old apprentice Black Adam had been revived and was bent on claiming the world as his own. To stop these threats he blessed me with incredible power so that I may be become Earth's Mightiest Mortal. That when I call down the power I become.....SHAZAM!"

See? Much more epic. A little long maybe but I honestly don't expect a narration at the beginning.

And your right I'm very passionate about this, I would love to make this show and write for this show. I do see a lot of appeal in this. The story I have isn't just for kids, there's lessons for everyone in what I have. I'm not trying to turn you to my side I'm just trying to prove that SHAZAM! among characters can have the appeal that Arrow has.