Days of Future Past What you didn't like about X-Men:DOFP - Flaws/Critiques

[Majik1387]

Again, my point has been missed. They could have warned Mystique and the others about Trask beforehand. Before the mutants were killed which lead to Mystique wanting to murder him. Before he even built the Sentinels. Furthermore, if they did we would have been able to have Emma Frost in this continuity but that's not gonna happen now.

Again, what would they do with knowledge of some person named Trask building mutant hunting robots before they got approved to be built? Nothing.
You just sound upset that you won't see Emma Frost again and trying to make an excuse of it based on this.

Nope, it would have been dangerous for the other mutants but not for Wolverine whose "mind can heal as fast as it breaks". They said it themselves. That's the reason why they sent him back in the first place. He could go back as far as he wanted because his mind could heal as fast as it disintegrated.

And again, they were on a time crunch. Sending him back further in the past not only would have wasted their time and energy but also wouldn't have made sense.

tbh that's the real reason, innit. It was purely plot convenience.

Not at all.

In a row? Yes.

Honestly, if said smiley causes that much cause for concern, might as well get rid of it.

 

[Nicky]

It doesn't have to be explained.

Yes, it does. A movie can't behave as if the audience already knows detail as crucial as that, especially when Pryde is not known to have such a power in the comics.

I get it just fine. Charles and Erik happened to be at odds over the events that happened after XMFC to the 1970s when Wolvie was sent back. People hold grudges; Wolvie happened to be thrown in the middle of one between them because it was at that time the Sentinels were given the go ahead. Not anytime beforehand; it wouldn't make sense for Wolvie to go back any earlier than he did, especially to warn them about mutant hunting robots that wouldn't exist for 10 years or so. What would they do with that info farther in the past? No you send the problem solver to where the problem began.

I've answered this in my last post.

It's a new body, that just happens to look like his old body.

lol ok... t:

Not at all. The future Wolvie had in DoFP before changing it is gone and rewritten. Why he had adamantium claws at the temple doesn't matter; that future doesn't exist anymore.

This mentality of 'it doesn't matter now because it doesn't exist' doesn't wash. Instead of Singer correcting those mistakes, he simply deletes them. Except he can't because they're still there for people to watch...

Not really. Marvel comics, especially the X-Men series is known for having multi-verses. Age of Apocalypse, Exiles, Days of Future Past, Bishop's timeline, Nimrod, etc.

But in the film medium it's important that they maintain some degree of continuity. In the comics it's fine. In real live action with real people multi universes don't work, it just confuses audiences and makes it look like a bombastic mess.

DOFP is a great film but it's by no means perfect.

 

[PunyGod]

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[Nicky]

Again, what would they do with knowledge of some person named Trask building mutant hunting robots before they got approved to be built? Nothing. You just sound upset that you won't see Emma Frost again and trying to make an excuse of it based on this.

Don't try to ascribe reasons to my opinions. I've given you my thoughts on why this plot point didn't work. You can choose to accept that or you can pluck stuff from the air to make it look as if my argument has no validity. Your call.

And again, they were on a time crunch. Sending him back further in the past not only would have wasted their time and energy but also wouldn't have made sense.

How?

Honestly, if said smiley causes that much cause for concern, might as well get rid of it.

Or you could just stop being rude? Your call.

 

[danoyse]

Again, my point has been missed. They could have warned Mystique and the others about Trask beforehand. Before the mutants were killed which lead to Mystique wanting to murder him. Before he even built the Sentinels. Furthermore, if they did we would have been able to have Emma Frost in this continuity but that's not gonna happen now.



Nope, it would have been dangerous for the other mutants but not for Wolverine whose "mind can heal as fast as it breaks". They said it themselves. That's the reason why they sent him back in the first place. He could go back as far as he wanted because his mind could heal as fast as it disintegrated.



tbh that's the real reason, innit. It was purely plot convenience.

No one's missing your point. They're explaining why they don't agree with it. Learn the difference.

If they had gone back and saved Emma and the others, Trask still would have been experimenting on mutants, and Mystique still could have decided to go after him (or another mutant could have). A warning isn't enough. They needed to stop the actual event from happening. They needed to actually be there to stop his murder, and prevent Mystique's capture. Not show up a few years earlier and give them a head's up about it.

They had no guarantee that Wolverine would be completely safe in the past, they sent him simply because he had a better shot of surviving what they were trying to do than the Professor. They had no idea what would happen, and Kitty warned Wolverine how tenuous the hold she would have on him would be because she'd never sent anyone that far back before. She couldn't just send him anywhere because he could heal, and they couldn't risk going anywhere other than the time they needed to be when they had so little time to waste.

What you call "plot convenience", the rest of call "storytelling that happens in what's obviously a sequel".

 

[PunyGod]

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[Majik1387]

Yes, it does. A movie can't behave as if the audience already knows detail as crucial as that, especially when Pryde is not known to have such a power in the comics.

Well, this movie did, and the audience was good with it, sooooooo.........

I've answered this in my last post.

Not really.

lol ok... t:

Now that that's settled.

This mentality of 'it doesn't matter now because it doesn't exist' doesn't wash. Instead of Singer correcting those mistakes, he simply deletes them. Except he can't because they're still there for people to watch...

He did fix the mistakes by erasing them. You may not like how he fixed them, but he did.

But in the film medium it's important that they maintain some degree of continuity. In the comics it's fine. In real live action with real people multi universes don't work, it just confuses audiences and makes it look like a bombastic mess.

They seem to manage dealing with mutli-film verse just fine based on how many James Bond, Batman, Superman, Incredible Hulk, Planet of the Apes, etc movies there are that don't take place in the same continuity.

DOFP is a great film but it's by no means perfect.

Never said it was.

 

[danoyse]

Or you could just stop being rude? Your call.

Could you try that as well?

 

[danoyse]

Exactly. This has been explained plenty of times. They could have sent him back earlier but there is no guarantee that anything he does will stop the assassination (short of murdering Mystique and maybe not even that).

And given the stubborn nature of most of these characters how successful do you think Logan would be at simply warning them of the future.

He had to stop the event itself directly to guarantee success.

The time travel logic in this film is actually well thought out.

Yep. This isn't Marty McFly warning his parents about setting the living room rug on fire when he was 8. This was about stopping an assassination that led to the world's destruction. You stop the event from happening, not give a warning a few years earlier.

 

[Majik1387]

Exactly. This has been explained plenty of times. They could have sent him back earlier but there is no guarantee that anything he does will stop the assassination (short of murdering Mystique and maybe not even that).

And given the stubborn nature of most of these characters how successful do you think Logan would be at simply warning them of the future.

He had to stop the event itself directly to guarantee success.

The time travel logic in this film is actually well thought out.

Thank you.

Don't try to ascribe reasons to my opinions. I've given you my thoughts on why this plot point didn't work. You can choose to accept that or you can pluck stuff from the air to make it look as if my argument has no validity. Your call.

Not ascribing anything to you. You clearly stated why you think Wolvie could have been sent back earlier, adding in that it could have saved Emma who we won't have again. Not saying it's your only reason, but it's clearly part of your distaste. Never said anything you said wasn't valid.

How?

Already explained.

Or you could just stop being rude? Your call.

Could you try that as well?

I wasn't being rude at all. Just saying.

No one's missing your point. They're explaining why they don't agree with it. Learn the difference.

If they had gone back and saved Emma and the others, Trask still would have been experimenting on mutants, and Mystique still could have decided to go after him (or another mutant could have). A warning isn't enough. They needed to stop the actual event from happening. They needed to actually be there to stop his murder, and prevent Mystique's capture. Not show up a few years earlier and give them a head's up about it.

They had no guarantee that Wolverine would be completely safe in the past, they sent him simply because he had a better shot of surviving what they were trying to do than the Professor. They had no idea what would happen, and Kitty warned Wolverine how tenuous the hold she would have on him would be because she'd never sent anyone that far back before. She couldn't just send him anywhere because he could heal, and they couldn't risk going anywhere other than the time they needed to be when they had so little time to waste.

What you call "plot convenience", the rest of call "storytelling that happens in what's obviously a sequel".

Thank you.

"Hey Mystique. Ten years from now you are going to be a cold hearted assassin b**** and kill some guy named Trask you who haven't heard of yet that will lead to a dark future 50 years from now where you are probably dead anyway. So... just don't kill him OK?"

t:

 

[Nicky]

No one's missing your point. They're explaining why they don't agree with it. Learn the difference.

I would say the same to you.

If they had gone back and saved Emma and the others, Trask still would have been experimenting on mutants, and Mystique still could have decided to go after him (or another mutant could have). A warning isn't enough. They needed to stop the actual event from happening. They needed to actually be there to stop his murder, and prevent Mystique's capture. Not show up a few years earlier and give them a head's up about it.

lol, um, why not? Answer: because it would have solved the problem and therefore not justify the existence of the movie.

They had no guarantee that Wolverine would be completely safe in the past, they sent him simply because he had a better shot of surviving what they were trying to do than the Professor.

They sent him back because only his mind could take the time travel back that far. That's the explanation they gave. Anything else is fan-retcon.

What you call "plot convenience", the rest of call "storytelling that happens in what's obviously a sequel".

Nah, it's plot convenience that requires the characters to behave stupid/insane in order for it to 'work'.

 

[Nicky]

"Hey Mystique. Ten years from now you are going to be a cold hearted assassin b**** and kill some guy named Trask you who haven't heard of yet that will lead to a dark future 50 years from now where you are probably dead anyway. So... just don't kill him OK?"

Oh, you mean like he did in trailer 3? 1:03 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsjtg7m1MMM

If you're going to apply snark/sarcastic statements, you should probably do research to make sure what you're saying isn't something Singer originally did lol t:

 

[Majik1387]

lol, um, why not? Answer: because it would have solved the problem and therefore not justify the existence of the movie.

Again, no it wouldn't.
You can go back in time and tell Hitler's parents that he's going to be a tyrant hated by the world and cause one of the worst genocides ever, and warn them to make sure he won't do it; that doesn't mean he won't do it.
You have to sent the problem solver to the problem as it happens; this isn't Minority Report.

They sent him back because only his mind could take the time travel back that far. That's the explanation they gave. Anything else is fan-retcon.

Not entirely. They sent Wolvie back because of how long of a life he's had. There was a high risk for anyone to be sent back, Wolvie just happened to be their best option due to his healing factor.
Even when sending him back, Kitty said it was gonna hurt a lot.

Nah, it's plot convenience that requires the characters to behave stupid/insane in order for it to 'work'.

And again, no it isn't.

 

[Nicky]

Well, this movie did, and the audience was good with it, sooooooo.........

Yes, they were. But this is my gripe. My opinion.

Not really.

I did, you just refuse to see flaws withun the movie.

Now that that's settled.

If by 'settled' you mean, "I accept it's just plot convenience". Then yeah, sure.

He did fix the mistakes by erasing them. You may not like how he fixed them, but he did.

They're not erased because you can still watch them on DVD, online etc etc

They seem to manage dealing with mutli-film verse just fine based on how many James Bond, Batman, Superman, Incredible Hulk, Planet of the Apes, etc movies there are that don't take place in the same continuity.

Yes, but not simultaneously. It's called "reboot". You might of heard of it. It's been done by, like, every studio ever.

Never said it was.

And yet you resent the fact that I have the audacity to call out its flaws to the point where you're rolling you eyes at me every 5 minutes.

 

[Majik1387]

Oh, you mean like he did in trailer 3? 1:03 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsjtg7m1MMM

If you're going to apply snark/sarcastic statements, you should probably do research to make sure what you're saying isn't something Singer originally did lol t:

He would have said that to her whether in the 1960s or 70s, but it only helped to tell her and fully explain it in the 70s when she's actually on her crusade against Trask, not a decade beforehand.

 

[Nicky]

Not ascribing anything to you. You clearly stated why you think Wolvie could have been sent back earlier, adding in that it could have saved Emma who we won't have again. Not saying it's your only reason, but it's clearly part of your distaste. Never said anything you said wasn't valid.

Nope, you're ascribing reasons and trying to deflect from the issue at hand. Nice try. The plot point simply didn't make sense.

Already explained.

Yes, and it's as weak an argument as ever.

 

[danoyse]

I would say the same to you.

I suggest you learn to handle conversation better.

lol, um, why not? Answer: because it would have solved the problem and therefore not justify the existence of the movie.

What was Logan supposed to do? Show up in 1965 instead and just give her a call? That's not a guarantee that they've stopped anything. They needed to be in Paris and physically stop her.

They sent him back because only his mind could take the time travel back that far. That's the explanation they gave. Anything else is fan-retcon.

No, they sent him back because they thought he was the only one who they could risk taking the trip. They had no idea if it would work or how it would affect Logan's mind, so they couldn't risk sending him anywhere else than the place they needed him to be - which was to stop the assassination. As the event happened, not a few years before and hope a warning was enough.

That is not fan-retcon, that is clearly explained throughout the entire film.

Nah, it's plot convenience that requires the characters to behave stupid/insane in order for it to 'work'.

Which is what sending Logan earlier to just give Mystique a warning would have been. So thank god they didn't do it that way.

 

[PunyGod]

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[danoyse]

Yes, they were. But this is my gripe. My opinion.

And you're throwing a fit because no one agrees with you.

It's your opinion, that's great. Quit with the attitude at everyone who thinks your idea is terrible.

That's their opinion, so practice what you preach and deal with it.

 

[Nicky]

Again, no it wouldn't.
You can go back in time and tell Hitler's parents that he's going to be a tyrant hated by the world and cause one of the worst genocides ever, and warn them to make sure he won't do it; that doesn't mean he won't do it.
You have to sent the problem solver to the problem as it happens; this isn't Minority Report.

But then that argument can be applied to the point in which they were sent back. Mystique was still willing to shoot Trask even after everything she had learned because she was so angry about what he did to her mutant friends. If Wolverine had gone back earlier he could have warned them and stopped Trask altogether rather than going through all that angst.

Not entirely. They sent Wolvie back because of how long of a life he's had. There was a high risk for anyone to be sent back, Wolvie just happened to be their best option due to his healing factor. Even when sending him back, Kitty said it was gonna hurt a lot.

You're doing more retcon than Bryan Singer did in this entire movie. They sent him back specifically because his mind could heal as fast as it disintegrated. They explain it in the movie. It's all there in the characters' own words. Don't shoot the messenger.

And again, no it isn't.

And again, yes it is.

 

[danoyse]

Oh, you mean like he did in trailer 3? 1:03 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsjtg7m1MMM

If you're going to apply snark/sarcastic statements, you should probably do research to make sure what you're saying isn't something Singer originally did lol t:

What are you even talking about? That's in the trailer (cut from the movie), but clearly from the same time period you're saying he shouldn't have gone to. They spend the entire second half of the movie warning her not to kill him, and it wasn't until she had a gun pointed at his head, with both Erik and Charles there, to finally make her understand that she had to put the gun down. In the end, it turned out they actually did need the both of them to make her understand.

 

[Majik1387]

Yes, they were. But this is my gripe. My opinion.

And your opinion is apparently you rather be told not shown, which is a failure of Film 101.

I did, you just refuse to see flaws withun the movie.

Not at all.

If by 'settled' you mean, "I accept it's just plot convenience". Then yeah, sure.

I meant more of that it's settled because you have no basis to back your opinion.

They're not erased because you can still watch them on DVD, online etc etc

They are erased from continuity, yes.

Yes, but not simultaneously. It's called "reboot". You might of heard of it. It's been done by, like, every studio ever.

When Moore took over Bond, it was not a reboot. When Dalton took over Bond, it was not a reboot. When Brosnan took over Bond, it was not a reboot. Going by time frame of the Connery, to Moore, to Dalton, to Brosnan as Bond, it's pretty clear that they just updated Bond's story for each movie. Craig was the first real reboot Bond.

The X-Men movies combined their First Class continuity with their X1-3 and Wolvie continuities, got rid of the problems and are moving forward without them. None of it was a simultaneous alternate universe.

And yet you resent the fact that I have the audacity to call out its flaws to the point where you're rolling you eyes at me every 5 minutes.

Umm, no. I don't resent anything in this thread just so we're clear. If I see someone try to state something as a flaw when it isn't, odds are I will comment on it to explain it to said person.

And I rolled my eyes a whole one time at your distaste for JFK being a mutant.

Learn to read properly.

Your snark is lame; can't wait to see it get you in trouble.

 

[PunyGod]

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[Nicky]

And you're throwing a fit because no one agrees with you.

It's your opinion, that's great. Quit with the attitude at everyone who thinks your idea is terrible.

That's their opinion, so practice what you preach and deal with it.

Hey, I don't care that people don't agree with me. I'm cool, yo. t: The title of this thread is called "What you didn't like about X-Men: DOFP". The fact that I'm here having to defend the things I didn't like about the movie more or less proves that it's others who can't handle my opinion. The movie wasn't perfect. It just wasn't.

 

[Nicky]

What was Logan supposed to do? Show up in 1965 instead and just give her a call? That's not a guarantee that they've stopped anything. They needed to be in Paris and physically stop her.

I've answered this already.

No, they sent him back because they thought he was the only one who they could risk taking the trip. They had no idea if it would work or how it would affect Logan's mind, so they couldn't risk sending him anywhere else than the place they needed him to be - which was to stop the assassination. As the event happened, not a few years before and hope a warning was enough. That is not fan-retcon, that is clearly explained throughout the entire film.

No, it's not.

Which is what sending Logan earlier to just give Mystique a warning would have been. So thank god they didn't do it that way.

The way they did it was even more nonsensical.