Homecoming Who should be the Villain in Spider-Man (2017)? - Part 2

[Venom'sDad]

People usually say this or that particular character won't work, because they can't envision themselves how someone else envision, this or that character would be portrayed. So immediately, it is discounted in their minds.

 

[Webhead2006]

Ya that is how I feel even a silly guy like take the spot for example. Silly look but cool powers. With the right story he could be pushed from c lister up a bit. Just like before mcu started ironman was a b lister. Now he is the face of mcu and a lister spot. And more so with them in comics now trying to make him the defacto headliner in this current branding initiative.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Iron Man just have unused potential when he was b lister. I do not see what potential with Spot to make him bigger villain.

 

[Webhead2006]

I was just using the spot as an example.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Spot is in the same realm as Vulture. I'd love to see him on film, but he just wouldn't work as a central villain. As a side-fight or a hired thug, then heck yes. But they don't have the material to justify them as "big bad" candidates.

 

[younglink42]

Maybe they should go with a villain that isn't green, or is less green.

 

[Webhead2006]

Vulture if/when he is used I would go green and silver or green and black. I personally didn't like the red look for him.

 

[I'm Venom]

Vulture should be a nefarious villain. We don't need all the villains to be sympathized. Vulture falls into that category.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

kingpin

 

[AvegningSpider]

I still push Spot and Mysterio for SummerSla...erh i mean the Spider-Man Reboot.

 

[harryoscop]

Mysterio as the main villain and Spot as a side villain could work. (though i'd rather have Shocker instead of Spot)

 

[The Overlord]

I was just using the spot as an example.

To take the opposite approach, aren't some villains not suited to the big bad of a film? Do we really want to see Spidey stop Big Wheel from breaking traffic laws for two hours?

We need a cinematic villain to carry a movie and it takes more then a gimmick to be a cinematic villain and a lot of the character described here, are just gimmicks with very little else attached to them, so yeah, a lot of them would need some serious revamping before they can carry a film.

I think its easier to make Mysterio into cinematic villain then Vulture, if they gave him a more compelling personality then the one he has in the comics. A villain who is ruthless and challenges Spidey's morality and sanity would easily fill up 2 hours. If he is some goofball who robs banks with special effects, yeah, then he will not feel like a cinematic villain. I also think Mysterio frames Spidey for a crime, it should be robbery and murder, that makes Mysterio seem more ruthless and gives the cops a good reason to be determined to arrest Spidey, I don't think the cops would use as many resources to bring in Spidey if he is thought to be guilty only of robbery, if they thought he was murderer they would put a lot more resources into arresting him.

I feel for Vulture to be a suitable Big Bad, they will have put the focus on his intelligence, rather then his flight abilities. In the comics, too often they don't make Vulture seem any more intelligent then other thug villains Spidey fights, he uses the same smash and grab tactics they use. Give him a far grander scheme then simple petty theft and pair him up with a more physical villain like Scorpion and you might have something.

Vulture should be a nefarious villain. We don't need all the villains to be sympathized. Vulture falls into that category.

Fine, but then give Vulture something more interesting to do then rob banks for two hours. For all of his supposed intelligence in the comics, too often he used the same smash and grab tactics the dumber villains use. Frankly given their gimmicks, I think its far easier to make Mysterio into a truly monstrous villain, you don't want a villain that has no redeeming qualities, but never commits anything worse petty thievery. I want a menacing villain, not some big meanie head, to be the Big Bad.

 

[harryoscop]

I imagine he'd be similar to Falcon, but with more jagged, menacing wings. Do you think they'd go with the classic green or modern red & black, though? Before the deal, I'd never have expected green, but now that it's with Marvel, I'd say it's more likely, especially to distinguish from Falcon.

Definitely green. And I think we might be seeing a more tech/Iron Man-inspired look, complete with a retractable helmet. (because let's face it, Toomes would definitely use a headguard while flying at sonic speeds). I also think his suit will grant him enhanced strength and speed, basically Marvel expanding on his abilities/arsenal to better set him apart from the inevitable MCU Green Goblin and make him more of a serious threat to Spidey.

 

[Webhead2006]

Lord I was just saying with the right story someone of spot caliber could be bumped up from c lister to a prime villain. Now w I ukd spot or big wheel actually be good for a large role in film probably not. But it would be cool to see a character with potential like how spot powers would be grest. And give them time to shine like the more well offed guys.

 

[The Overlord]

Lord I was just saying with the right story someone of spot caliber could be bumped up from c lister to a prime villain. Now w I ukd spot or big wheel actually be good for a large role in film probably not. But it would be cool to see a character with potential like how spot powers would be grest. And give them time to shine like the more well offed guys.

And what I'm saying is it takes more then a villain with a gimmick to make for a suitable Big Bad. Every villain has a gimmick, but a gimmick is not a character and a lot of comic villains only have a gimmick rather then a defined personality.

Spot has a gimmick, but he makes for a lame super villain, because with his powers, there are a million ways he could make money, both legally and illegally, that would work better then bank robbery. Its really hard to take a villain seriously, when that villain seems so uncreative with their talents, that they don't even live up to a fraction of their talents. There was a recent Daredevil story, where a villain named Coyote kidnapped Spot and managed to steal his powers with the help of a mysterious benefactor and he used those powers in far more creative ways. He made millions in the drug trade, by using his powers to transport drugs across the world and got involved in the human smuggling trade. Even Coyote is not a good Big Bad, considering he is just a thug for hire, but a clever one. We have to stop treating bank robbery as the height of villainy, there are so many more interesting a villain can do than that.

Of all the villains who have not appeared yet, Mysterio and Kraven are the most obvious Big Bads who could carry one movie, not several, so trying to stretch out Kraven's story over the course of several films till we finally get to the good stuff seems like a bad idea and I think Mysterio needs some reworking because is not a very compelling character in the comics, usually. Vulture might work as Big bad, but they have to rework him a lot, up his power and make him more actively intelligent, don't have him engage in the same smash and grab tactics the dumber villains engage, give him some real clever schemes and pair with a physical villain who couldn't carry a film, like Scorpion.

 

[Webhead2006]

And I was not talking about him or any one just being a simple bank robber or what not.

 

[Venom'sDad]

And what I'm saying is it takes more then a villain with a gimmick to make for a suitable Big Bad. Every villain has a gimmick, but a gimmick is not a character and a lot of comic villains only have a gimmick rather then a defined personality.

Spot has a gimmick, but he makes for a lame super villain, because with his powers, there are a million ways he could make money, both legally and illegally, that would work better then bank robbery. Its really hard to take a villain seriously, when that villain seems so uncreative with their talents, that they don't even live up to a fraction of their talents. There was a recent Daredevil story, where a villain named Coyote kidnapped Spot and managed to steal his powers with the help of a mysterious benefactor and he used those powers in far more creative ways. He made millions in the drug trade, by using his powers to transport drugs across the world and got involved in the human smuggling trade. Even Coyote is not a good Big Bad, considering he is just a thug for hire, but a clever one. We have to stop treating bank robbery as the height of villainy, there are so many more interesting a villain can do than that.

Of all the villains who have not appeared yet, Mysterio and Kraven are the most obvious Big Bads who could carry one movie, not several, so trying to stretch out Kraven's story over the course of several films till we finally get to the good stuff seems like a bad idea and I think Mysterio needs some reworking because is not a very compelling character in the comics, usually. Vulture might work as Big bad, but they have to rework him a lot, up his power and make him more actively intelligent, don't have him engage in the same smash and grab tactics the dumber villains engage, give him some real clever schemes and pair with a physical villain who couldn't carry a film, like Scorpion.

Well Said.

Vulture imo opinion is a compelling villain...I honestly believe the writers have not used the character properly & been quite simple & lazy with him. I do agree he would require some tweaking as far as his personality is concern, and maybe a little of his background(which I have created one for); otherwise, he is a very compelling character imho...which is why I suggest Vulture & Kraven...I'm sure for different reasons than others.

As for Spot...the way I see it, he should be a very dangerous villain; but, once again, writers use of him has been simple, silly, & un-compelling, if not flat out lazy. That's just me.

 

[Oscorp]

I think one thing that makes Spider-Man's whole world of characters so great and rich is that in the comics there is a great balance of joke tier, low tier, mid tier and high tier villains. It would be awfully boring if Marvel tried to make every single villain come off as some big deal.

Looking at Spider-Man's lore as a whole, even the joke and low tier villains serve the big picture in a big way by giving it variety, personality and a sense of realism which makes the whole world of Spider-Man's feel organic and mirroring the real world. There is a purpose of a villain not being "great".

A villain being joke- or low tier doesn't mean he's not well written or likeable. What seperates them from the rest is that they don't cause too much trouble in Spider-Man's or Peter Parker's life. They're mostly easy for him to take out and they make for some laid back and fun pages. Once in a while they have great character moments and use their abilities more to their potential, but it's more rare than of the villains of higher tiers.

To talk about The Spot as an example. Yes, he has some cool powers. But part of him is also that he doesn't use his powers to their full potential. It's like the real world - there are lots of people with skills they don't use to their full potential. There are also people in the real world who desperately try too much for their own good to do things they simply aren't skilled enough to do.

That's not to say the comics are or should be static. Kraven is a great example of a villain rising in ranks and I think a lot of people would say he's high tier after Kraven's Last Hunt. Now there are also lots of people who'd love to see him on the big screen. Tombstone in Spectacular Spider-Man is another example.

So, in the comics there needs to be a balance of bad and good villains to make the world richer and more real. Trying too hard to up the ante with every villain could actually hurt more than help.

The films are obviously different though. There won't be time to show too much of these joke or low tier villains on film. The stakes need to be high in about two hours each or else the films will feel like a waste of time. I simply don't see any room for a villain like The Spot when there are so many other villains who are better and have much more potential. The comics could do a "Kraven's Last Hunt" on The Spot (though very unlikely), but a film is not the place for that.

What about Iron Man, Ant-Man and so on? Well, those movie villains aren't nearly on the same level as should be expected from a Spider-Man villain. Spider-Man has arguably the best rogues gallery alongside Batman and Superman (perhaps X-Men). His villains are some of the most famous and familiar out there. It would be stupid to chose to instead spend time and energy on an obscure and lesser villain.

That's not to say that the films can't improve on villains (I think they should). But the villains they improve on need to be the familiar and famous ones because they also have the most potential. Vulture is an example of a villain who I think could carry a film if improved on slightly. He's a cold and old villain who I think would fit great to be calculating and "old man smart". Looking down on someone like Spider-Man for being "young and easily fooled". Being so cold as it makes you wonder if he has any sense of empathy at all. That could make for a great movie villain.

Shocker is a low tier villain who could work great in a film as a hired gun in favour of someone like The Spot because a) he's more familiar and famous, b) he's way more popular and c) he's lots of times portrayed as a badass (even though he also lots of times is portrayed as a joke) which would make for a cool villain. They should improve on his character, but they should not try to make Shocker out to be something bigger than he is. That would take away part of why he's so popular: he's somewhat relatable and human compared to a lot of other villains. He's not in the same league as Doc Ock, and he knows it. Giving him the role of a leading villain would be untrue to the character we love.

I think why it's harder to justify spending time and energy on trying to make low tier villains better on film compared to other media like comics and cartoons is that there is such a limited time for films to do that. There are way more people who long for Kraven or Mysterio to show up that it would even feel a bit unfair.

If Marvel for some reason make The Spot a higher tier villain by writing great character evolving stories that come to define him more than his place as a joke villain, then after that he might deserve a place in the films.

 

[Webhead2006]

Oscorp that is a good point on type of foes in his rouges gallery. And I would like all the types to get a chance to shine a bit. A joke villain as a opening scene due or a quick fight during a montage. A lower tier guy as a secondary or henchmen level baddie. Then you have the show topper guys. Ie are main a and some b lister guys who are the main driving villain and what have you.

 

[Oscorp]

Oscorp that is a good point on type of fees in his rouges gallery. And I would like all the types to get a chance to shine a bit. A joke villain as a opening scene due or a quick fight during a montage. A lower tier guy as a secondary or henchmen level baddie. Then you have the show topper guys. Ie are main a and some b lister guys who are the main driving villain and what have you.

I see what you mean: the movies should reflect the established world of Spider-Man from the comics which includes him taking down losers. The limited time makes it difficult though. The purpose of showing a joke tier villain like The Spot on the big screen should be to show what a typical day of Spider-Man's is like. I could definitely buy that and see how that would be a good thing to do. But that should be in the form of a montage or a very short clip with some monologue over or something in my opinion. I'm talking less time than Rhino got in TASM 2, or that Baron Strucker got in Age of Ultron.

 

[Webhead2006]

Ya something like them would be good or like batroc was in cap two it was a leading in fight that might have some minor tie to the larger threat of the film.

Heck like rhino in asm 2. I could easily see film opening with a monolog with peter heading to school but he goes oh great ...... doing this and he has to fight x guy doing what ever he quips about them. And then makes some joke to himself about being late and we see him trying to sneak into school.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Makes me wish Spidey got a Netflix series.

Top 3 rogues galleries are:

1) Spidey
2) Bats
3) DD or X-Men...

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Actually it's quite shameful that I didn't put the Fantastic Four as # 3.

Easily in the top 3 with the greatest villain of all.

 

[AvegningSpider]

Actually it's quite shameful that I didn't put the Fantastic Four as # 3.

Easily in the top 3 with the greatest villain of all.

I found it weird that you didn't put Flash in it, yet again most of people besides comic fans don't know some of his Rogues, so......yeah..

 

[Webhead2006]

The problem there as great as a netflix show would be to play off hs setting and character develooment. A spidey show done proper like the films for his and certain foes would be pretty expensive show to make.

Compared to just the peter side of things other other foes. But I do hope we can see to. Spidey appear in any future netflix shows or shield.