Who should play Ms. Marvel if she gets her own film?

[jonathancrane]

I think you misinterpreted me. My point was I don't think her costume is any more or any less ridiculous than 90% of superhero costumes. I don't think a woman running around in thigh highs and a swim suit is any more ridiculous than a man running around in a spangly costume with an A on his forehead.
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

The difference is that the spangly costume with the A is not designed to sexually stimulate a population, while the 'swim suit' one is...

 

[KangConquers]

The difference is that the spangly costume with the A is not designed to sexually stimulate a population, while the 'swim suit' one is...

**** it. I quit.

 

[Xeno]

The difference is that the spangly costume with the A is not designed to sexually stimulate a population, while the 'swim suit' one is...

Fanservice Barbie ain't gonna cut it anymore.

 

[DrCosmic]

Because a) the original design motive for a male comic book character's costume usually goes beyond basic titillation
and b) Captain America's costume was adapted from a 2002 redesign, Iron Man's costume was adapted from a 2005 redesign, and Thor's costume was adapted from a 2007 redesign. These comic redesigns were all introduced with practicality and eventual movies in mind.

Carol recently had a similar redesign in the comics, that is what the studio will look to when adapting

A) Female costumes often go beyond basic titillation, that is often included, true, but that's not all they are. As you said, Ms. Marvel's original was a feminine spin on Mar-Vell's look. That's not a bad motivation on any level, neither is it one that should be thrown away, merely updated. B) The redesigns for those characters actually paid homage to the character's classic look and make instant sense within the story. Carol's recent redesign may be the most likely to be used, but it is a relatively poor design in terms of homage, story and uniqueness. (Unless you're comparing it with the swimsuit costume). I think good adaptation of the latest redesign - especially in the context of receiving is straight from Mar-Vell and standing between Black Widow and Maria Hill and looking unique - will be notably different in some way. Or, maybe that's just my vain hope, and the only acceptable form of sexualization is the skintight uniform, therefore it will always be done.

 

[Human Torch]

The difference is that the spangly costume with the A is not designed to sexually stimulate a population, while the 'swim suit' one is...

I guess it don't take much to "thrill" us guys when 8 inches of leg showing between knee boots and hot pants/skirt is considered "titillating".

"Been spendin' most our lives livin' in an Amish Paradise...."

 

[KangConquers]

I guess it don't take much to "thrill" us guys when 8 inches of leg showing between knee boots and hot pants/skirt is considered "titillating".

"Been spendin' most our lives livin' in an Amish Paradise...."

That's exactly how I feel. These things are only titillating to teenage boys who've never seen a grown woman naked.

 

[jonathancrane]

That's exactly how I feel. These things are only titillating to teenage boys who've never seen a grown woman naked.

What purpose does having the legs exposed serve, then? There is no utility created by having that much of the body exposed; in fact, it is the reverse. If there is no sexualizing in having that much of her exposed, then there should no problem then with opening up the costumes of the other characters. Remove Thor's breastplate, give Cap a speedo, and so on. After all, it's all legs...

 

[Chewy]

That's exactly how I feel. These things are only titillating to teenage boys who've never seen a grown woman naked.

Exactly, and that's who the costume was for. Anyone else who looks at it thinks it's idiotic. And since there's no in-story reason for her to wear it, I'm not sure why anyone's even arguing for it. Just have her wear what Mar-Vell wears, or something that evokes it. The costume she currently wears is pretty much Mar-Vell's suit with the colors swapped. Not that I think it's perfect, but it's in the right ballpark

 

[KangConquers]

What purpose does having the legs exposed serve, then? There is no utility created by having that much of the body exposed; in fact, it is the reverse. If there is no sexualizing in having that much of her exposed, then there should no problem then with opening up the costumes of the other characters. Remove Thor's breastplate, give Cap a speedo, and so on. After all, it's all legs...

I wouldn't argue with anything you just said if it had been "give Namor a speedo." And I would argue against showing Black Widow's legs to the last, despite it being Scarlet Johansen. I want the costumes I grew up on honored, even if they are a little ridiculous.

 

[jonathancrane]

I wouldn't argue with anything you just said if it had been "give Namor a speedo." And I would argue against showing Black Widow's legs to the last, despite it being Scarlet Johansen. I want the costumes I grew up on honored, even if they are a little ridiculous.

Fair enough.

 

[DrCosmic]

What purpose does having the legs exposed serve, then? There is no utility created by having that much of the body exposed; in fact, it is the reverse. If there is no sexualizing in having that much of her exposed, then there should no problem then with opening up the costumes of the other characters. Remove Thor's breastplate, give Cap a speedo, and so on. After all, it's all legs...

The purpose for me would be making her look significantly unique from everyone else and paying homage to her original costume. You could take the sleeves off instead or additionally, but that wouldn't homage the original look.

Remember, legs free is the original. Utility is indeed created by covering up her legs, no doubt about that, but utility is also created by making Cap's suit all black. At some point, you keep what makes the character unique, and do the work of updating it in a way that makes sense in the modern world. I think the not-being-the-third-woman-in-a-skintight-catsuit is the where to draw the uniqueness line for Carol.

Me personally, I would put all the Kree footsoldiers in bear legs, so when Carol steals one of their uniforms, the explanation is not to flash the guys, or anything sexual at all.

 

[flickchick85]

I just want to say I agree with every word Chewy's said in this discussion. No thanks to the black bikini. Her current costume is a vast improvement and truer to who the character really is, imo.

 

[jonathancrane]

The purpose for me would be making her look significantly unique from everyone else and paying homage to her original costume. You could take the sleeves off instead or additionally, but that wouldn't homage the original look.

Remember, legs free is the original. Utility is indeed created by covering up her legs, no doubt about that, but utility is also created by making Cap's suit all black. At some point, you keep what makes the character unique, and updated in a way that makes sense in the modern world. I think the not-being-the-third-woman-in-a-skintight-catsuit is the where to draw the uniqueness line for Carol.

Me personally, I would put all the Kree footsoldiers in bear legs, so when Carol steals one of their uniforms, the explanation is not to flash the guys, or anything sexual at all.

Grizzly or Polar? (sorry, it conjured up an amusing image; I was not trying to bait.) I am done commenting/arguing for the costume; design and its related politics are polarizing, and I realize that no one is going to agree with me, and that is fine (there is a reason why I am not in not charge of the franchise(s).) I really do not want to start any forum rivalries; there's already enough of that in my damn department.

Everyone who has responded has been articulate in their desire to retain the modern/Bronze Age looks for the character. That's fine; I have been a purist about costumes in other sections of the forum. One has to understand: I've come from two educational institutions that are very politically charged, and so every time I have to deal with topics pertaining to image, alarms start going off, metaphorically: namely those for what I perceive as problematic. Does that make the absolute authority? Hell no. As my friend said, "everything's relative."

 

[DrCosmic]

No one's asking for a black bikini, but putting every female hero in a dark blue/grey skintight bodysuit isn't a good artistic choice, either, is it?

Grizzly or Polar? (sorry, it conjured up an amusing image; I was not trying to bait.) I am done commenting/arguing for the costume; design and its related politics are polarizing, and I realize that no one is going to agree with me, and that is fine (there is a reason why I am not in not charge of the franchise(s).) I really do not want to start any forum rivalries; there's already enough of that in my damn department.

Everyone who has responded has been articulate in their desire to retain the modern/Bronze Age looks for the character. That's fine; I have been a purist about costumes in other sections of the forum. One has to understand: I've come from two educational institutions that are very politically charged, and so every time I have to deal with topics pertaining to image, alarms start going off, metaphorically: namely those for what I perceive as problematic. Does that make the absolute authority? Hell no. As my friend said, "everything's relative."

Lol, I knew something was wrong as I was typing that. I definitely don't want any forum rivalries either, but I do want to explore where sexualization becomes evil, if that is the concern. It is not perceived of as evil when done with Sif and Black Widow, so that's interesting to me. I have no problem getting schooled, but I am here for discussion. If this is a discussion that is just off limits, then that helps me understand why in updating Captain Marvel's uniform to give her some dignity over the stripper black and yellow design, we end up with something so simple and common, whose only main appeal is that it's not a stripper outfit.

 

[flickchick85]

No one's asking for a black bikini, but putting every female hero in a dark blue/grey skintight bodysuit isn't a good artistic choice, either, is it?

Are you talking about her current costume? Because that's not how I see that at all.

 

[KangConquers]

Her current costume is an eye sore. And not because it covers her, but because she looks like a rooster covered in superman ice cream with her current design.

This with the thighs covered up with red pants would be acceptable.

 

[jonathancrane]

No one's asking for a black bikini, but putting every female hero in a dark blue/grey skintight bodysuit isn't a good artistic choice, either, is it?

As I said in the preceding post, it was my opinion and all who responded to have viable opinions, even if I did not agree with them. To respond your post, there are alternative armor designs available (they could take base elements from her Captain Marvel armor and create something unique from it.) Again, I recognize the nostalgia value of the original uniform, but was merely pointing out the problematic politics of it. I am done, tho: it would amount to beating a dead horse, since everyone has polarized opinions on the matter.

Returning to the topic at hand, I wanted to suggest an alternative casting option: Olivia Thirlby. I was re-watching Dredd today and really enjoyed her performance in it.

 

[jonathancrane]

Her current costume is an eye sore. And not because it covers her, but because she looks like a rooster covered in superman ice cream with her current design.

This with the thighs covered up with red pants would be acceptable.

Fair enough.

 

[flickchick85]

Her current costume is an eye sore. And not because it covers her, but because she looks like a rooster covered in superman ice cream with her current design.

This with the thighs covered up with red pants would be acceptable.

I'd be fine with that, but I also don't see the current one as an eyesore at all. But to each their own.

 

[KangConquers]

I'd be fine with that, but I also don't see the current one as an eyesore at all. But to each their own.

The new one is a color inversion of that, and it looks all wrong to me. I know it's personal preference, but I hate it.

 

[DrCosmic]

^I also really like the EMH suit. i would take the stripper-costume-inspired thigh-highs to normal boot height (knee), and exchange the domino mask for high tech eye gear, or aviator glasses or nothing at all. That then would be a 100% perfect suit update/adaptation for Carol to me.

As I said in the preceding post, it was my opinion and all who responded to have viable opinions, even if I did not agree with them. To respond your post, there are alternative armor designs available (they could take base elements from her Captain Marvel armor and create something unique from it.) Again, I recognize the nostalgia value of the original uniform, but was merely pointing out the problematic politics of it. I am done, tho: it would amount to beating a dead horse, since everyone has polarized opinions on the matter.

Returning to the topic at hand, I wanted to suggest an alternative casting option: Olivia Thirlby. I was re-watching Dredd today and really enjoyed her performance in it.

I would also love it if she had Mar-Vell's armor. The Ultimate Mahr Vehl armor design (also seen in EMH) is quite gloriously perfect, and that's so great and unique and homagey to Mar-Vell's *original* look that I would not mind if it were just transferred straight over to Carol as is... besides, you don't really want to feminify space armor, other than giving it a slight hourglass frame.

Are you talking about her current costume? Because that's not how I see that at all.

I am. It had some originality with the helmet, but it looks better without it. It's good to have the original logo back and the red sash, the only good thing about the black suit, which then necessitates the color swap, but the large majority of it is a skintight blue bodysuit. Like Maria Hill's and sometimes no lighter in shade than Natasha's outfit.

 

[flickchick85]

The new one is a color inversion of that, and it looks all wrong to me. I know it's personal preference, but I hate it.

I guess I prefer the blue over the red, which is why the inversion doesn't bother me, but like you said, it's a personal preference, so fair enough.

 

[KangConquers]

Fair enough.

And I would never argue for anything too gratuitous (like Gamora's pre-2013 costume.)

 

[flickchick85]

I am. It had some originality with the helmet, but it looks better without it. It's good to have the original logo back and the red sash, the only good thing about the black suit, which then necessitates the color swap, but the large majority of it is a skintight blue bodysuit. Like Maria Hill's and sometimes no lighter in shade than Natasha's outfit.

Well, I was kinda assuming it would be made of different materials considering the helmet would otherwise make it look top-heavy material-wise in real-life. For me, a live-action adaptation of that would look very different from a (fairly cheap-looking, imo) SHIELD body suit. Kinda like this:

Or some other kind of unique, more "alien-like" material.

At any rate, it makes more sense to me for Carol to have a costume reminiscent of theirs than anyone else, since she started out as a military woman like them herself.

Now Scarlett Witch, on the other hand? If we see concept art of her in a SHIELD-bodysuit-like costume, then yeah, I'll share your concern, lol.

 

[KangConquers]

Well, I was kinda assuming it would be made of different materials considering the helmet would otherwise make it look top-heavy material-wise in real-life. For me, a live-action adaptation of that would look very different from a (fairly cheap-looking, imo) SHIELD body suit. Kinda like this:

Or some other kind of unique, more "alien-like" material.

At any rate, it makes more sense to me for Carol to have a costume reminiscent of theirs than anyone else, since she started out as a military woman like them herself.

Now Scarlett Witch, on the other hand? If we see concept art of her in a SHIELD-bodysuit-like costume, then yeah, I'll share your concern, lol.

Okay, that art looks really good. I think I'd prefer the traditional long hair though.