Why are the Liberators/"bad guys" in the Ultimates all foreign?

[Harlekin]

Ult Cap is alot more of a dick-head than 616 Cap.
Dick Bad-asses>>Morally-correct bad-asses.

And the fact he jumps out of planes without parachutes is way too cool

Morally correct badasses are always cooler than dick badasses. What's cooler, Superman being a badass or Punisher being a badass? Yeah, I'm going for when Supes is a badass.

 

[Darthphere]

Last time i checked 616 Cap jumps out of planes without parachutes from time to time as well, so I dont know what that comment was about.

 

[Horrorfan]

Morally correct badasses are always cooler than dick badasses. What's cooler, Superman being a badass or Punisher being a badass? Yeah, I'm going for when Supes is a badass.

I would say Punisher is morally correct. He just doesn't let his villains get out and kill again, whereas Supes is at least partially responsible for all the people who keep suffering at the hands of his bad guys.


And Superman? Badass? ROTFLMAO!

 

[Darthphere]

I would say Punisher is morally correct. He just doesn't let his villains get out and kill again, whereas Supes is at least partially responsible for all the people who keep suffering at the hands of his bad guys.


And Superman? Badass? ROTFLMAO!

Supes allows the courts and the law to do their part. Its a failure on their part, not his.

 

[Harlekin]

I would say Punisher is morally correct. He just doesn't let his villains get out and kill again, whereas Supes is at least partially responsible for all the people who keep suffering at the hands of his bad guys.

I really just went with an easy example of an anti-hero/dick. Also, worst argument ever. Why not hold the people responsible that have his villains in captivity? When is the jailer going to kill Luthor?

And Superman? Badass? ROTFLMAO!

I'm really not even going to bother with this considering you ignored every other post about Cap being a badass. Superman, like Cyclops and Cap, is a boyscout, which makes it that much cooler when they get pissed, and considering you've probably never read a Supes comic in your life (probably due to some idiotic pre-concieved notion that Superman can't be cool) you really should just shut up.

 

[Horrorfan]

I really just went with an easy example of an anti-hero/dick. Also, worst argument ever. Why not hold the people responsible that have his villains in captivity? When is the jailer going to kill Luthor?


I'm really not even going to bother with this considering you ignored every other post about Cap being a badass. Superman, like Cyclops and Cap, is a boyscout, which makes it that much cooler when they get pissed, and considering you've probably never read a Supes comic in your life (probably due to some idiotic pre-concieved notion that Superman can't be cool) you really should just shut up.

Nothing about Supes is cool. Ditto Cyclops. I would cross all of them a billion times before I even crossed the Punisher once, because I KNOW tise guys wouldn't have the spines to do anything to me, whereas if I ran into Punisher, that would be the end of me. Plus those things people were saying about Cap was lame (standing toe to toe with basically a God? That's approaching stupidity on the level of hulk punching through dimensions, wolvie and pants surviving a nuke and anything dc has ever done).


Well basically, you have seen how well the institutions work when it comes to incarcerating villains, so Superman should have the balls to finish them. But doesn't. Even though he is a million times more powerful than Punisher, I know I could get away with much more with him than say a Punisher or Wolverine.

 

[Sabretooth]

Probably the same reason all the good guys work for SHEILD.

 

[Harlekin]

Nothing about Supes is cool. Ditto Cyclops. I would cross all of them a billion times before I even crossed the Punisher once, because I KNOW tise guys wouldn't have the spines to do anything to me, whereas if I ran into Punisher, that would be the end of me.

T'is true that with the Punisher you would have to fear death, but that doesn't make Supes or Cycke any less dangerous. They can still **** you up good.

Nothing about Supes is cool? How about being the symbol of all that is good and right about humankind? Being a venerable icon but also a relatable character? Oh, wait, Supes wears primary colors and underwear over his pants. He can't possibly be cool.

Superman wrestling an evil archangel. Courtesy of Leaguer.

Superman being a badass. Courtesy of Spike_x1.

Superman 'killing' Manchester Black. Courtesy of Spike_x1.

And that's just a peek of badass moments (from the DCU) in the Holy **** threads in the DC forums.

Plus those things people were saying about Cap was lame (standing toe to toe with basically a God? That's approaching stupidity on the level of hulk punching through dimensions, wolvie and pants surviving a nuke and anything dc has ever done).

You didn't actually read the moment did you? Cap knew he couldn't win (and everybody was dead already anyway) but he did it out of defiance. He was basically spitting into the face of a would-be God. That's badass, my friend.

Well basically, you have seen how well the institutions work when it comes to incarcerating villains, so Superman should have the balls to finish them. But doesn't. Even though he is a million times more powerful than Punisher, I know I could get away with much more with him than say a Punisher or Wolverine.

Still not a valid argument. Shouldn't the jails, knowing the villains will get out again, just plain kill them? It's as much Superman's 'fault' as it is the jailer.

 

[Horrorfan]

T'is true that with the Punisher you would have to fear death, but that doesn't make Supes or Cycke any less dangerous. They can still **** you up good.

Nothing about Supes is cool? How about being the symbol of all that is good and right about humankind? Being a venerable icon but also a relatable character? Oh, wait, Supes wears primary colors and underwear over his pants. He can't possibly be cool.

Superman wrestling an evil archangel. Courtesy of Leaguer.

Superman being a badass. Courtesy of Spike_x1.

Superman 'killing' Manchester Black. Courtesy of Spike_x1.

And that's just a peek of badass moments (from the DCU) in the Holy **** threads in the DC forums.



You didn't actually read the moment did you? Cap knew he couldn't win (and everybody was dead already anyway) but he did it out of defiance. He was basically spitting into the face of a would-be God. That's badass, my friend.


Still not a valid argument. Shouldn't the jails, knowing the villains will get out again, just plain kill them? It's as much Superman's 'fault' as it is the jailer.

I gotta admit that Cap moment I misread did sound pretty cool. I like ultimate Cap because he has the same morals, but has a tougher attitude.....if 616 Cap had that attitude he would seem like less of a pushover imo.

I don't care who kills the villain, jailer or supes...either one would be good with me. But supes would probably have better luck with killing braniac and the like. For god's sake, superman refused to kill xenomorphs in superman vs aliens which forever cemented his status as lame duck in my mind. Im not that impressed with the pics, maybe because just about every DC character seems kinda lame to me....but valient effort nonetheless.

Also I'd rather be ****ed up than dead.

 

[Harlekin]

I gotta admit that Cap moment I misread did sound pretty cool. I like ultimate Cap because he has the same morals, but has a tougher attitude.....if 616 Cap had that attitude he would seem like less of a pushover imo.

Some progress at least.

I don't care who kills the villain, jailer or supes...either one would be good with me. But supes would probably have better luck with killing braniac and the like. For god's sake, superman refused to kill xenomorphs in superman vs aliens which forever cemented his status as lame duck in my mind. Im not that impressed with the pics, maybe because just about every DC character seems kinda lame to me....but valient effort nonetheless.

Ah, so you want to have the heroes not being heroes. I don't see what's so lame with heroes that don't kill. Like the title of a great Supes story: "What's so funny about Truth, Justice, and the American Way?". How much have you read of DC anyway, besides the crossover comics?

Also I'd rather be ****ed up than dead.

I'll give you that. Then again, lots of heroes will rather **** you up than kill you, and I'd hate to see you call guys like Spider-Man lame. For the record by the way, Punisher ain't a hero.

 

[The Question]

Ah, so you want to have the heroes not being heroes. I don't see what's so lame with heroes that don't kill. Like the title of a great Supes story: "What's so funny about Truth, Justice, and the American Way?". How much have you read of DC anyway, besides the crossover comics?

I don't think it's a matter of heroes not being heroes. Personally, the fact that almost every hero follows the whole "I can never kill, not even to save my life" philosophy (with a few exceptions like The Punisher) to be quite annoying. I mean, I have nothing against some characters having this philosophy, but I'd like to see some differing opinions on the issue.

 

[Harlekin]

I don't think it's a matter of heroes not being heroes. Personally, the fact that almost every hero follows the whole "I can never kill, not even to save my life" philosophy (with a few exceptions like The Punisher) to be quite annoying. I mean, I have nothing against some characters having this philosophy, but I'd like to see some differing opinions on the issue.

Except I find that characters who will consistently kill their villains (and not occasionally like Daredevil or Aquaman have done) aren't exactly heroes but anti-heroes.

 

[The Question]

Well, who said anything about killing constantly? Really, there shouldn't just be heroes who never kill and heroes who always kill. Why not have a hero who generally doesn't kill, but would be perfectly willing to do so should he or she find him or herself in a situation where it is required? I'm just saying, I'd like to see more differing opinions on the issue.

 

[Harlekin]

I said that, as I was directly replying to Horrorfan, who from my experiences finds heroes that don't kill lame, and thinks guys like the Punisher (who consistantly kills, there ya go) are utterly cool. I figured we were staying in that same ballpark, considering you quoted me.

Also, mind pointing out the bit where I said that there should always be a clear division of never-kill and always-kill? Did you miss the reference to Daredevil and Aquaman, both who've killed on at least one occasion (although I'll admit to drawing a blank who they killed exactly). Heck, I could even reference Superman, who 'killed' the three Kryptonian criminals.

 

[The Question]

Very true. My mistake. Still, it almost always seems to be devided between "never kills" and "always kills," with a few exceptions. I'd like to see things be a bit more complex than that.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Very true. My mistake. Still, it almost always seems to be devided between "never kills" and "always kills," with a few exceptions. I'd like to see things be a bit more complex than that.

DareDevil, Cyclops, Wolverine (and most of the X-Men), Moon Knight, and Wonder Woman are all on the "sometimes kills" list...although most have scruples about it.