Why are the Liberators/"bad guys" in the Ultimates all foreign?

[Darthphere]

really? when was the first time you [BLEEP]ed your [BLEEP]?

Summer of 66.

 

[Horrorfan]

Ive read Vol.1 and hated the characters, I dont know how one can root for these characters since theyre so unlikeable. I dont know, if it was a what if I dont if I would like it or not, but yes I do hate the Ultimate line but it isnt some blind hatred for it.

I don't think they are unlikeable at all.....well not all of them.


Cap is old fashioned, in the good sense of the word. He takes no crap, stands up for what he knows is right and is highly chivilrous and trustworthy.

Banner, while he is kinda a jerk, iis kinda a bullied geek at heart, so you kinda root for him.

Nick Fury does what he has to do. He saves your ass no matter what he has to do to do it.


Essentially, more than any other title, these guys are more human....they all have different aspects to them. Maybe not all totally likeable, but definitly interesting. And Cap is a guy I would admire greatly in real life. He won't ever quit on you or leave you behind.

 

[The Question]

And, really, alot of Cap's more dickish qualities are a result of his being out of his time. He's a solder from one of the few wars where a soldier could say his country's enemy was evil and his country was good and be telling the truth. Unfortunately (for Cap, at least), wars like that are quite rare. Very rarely can a soldier say that their country is doing an absolute good and it is best to follow all orders to the letter. And Cap has yet to learn that.

 

[Horrorfan]

Honestly, it was a shock to me when I found out Millar was writing him to be a dick....I thought Miller was just awesome at making him a bad ass. I didn't see his behaviour as dickish at all, as opposed to say Giant Man.

But it really is fascinating to me how people can view the same thing different ways. Beauty of perception I suppose.

 

[Darthphere]

I don't think they are unlikeable at all.....well not all of them.


Cap is old fashioned, in the good sense of the word. He takes no crap, stands up for what he knows is right and is highly chivilrous and trustworthy.

Banner, while he is kinda a jerk, iis kinda a bullied geek at heart, so you kinda root for him.

Nick Fury does what he has to do. He saves your ass no matter what he has to do to do it.


Essentially, more than any other title, these guys are more human....they all have different aspects to them. Maybe not all totally likeable, but definitly interesting. And Cap is a guy I would admire greatly in real life. He won't ever quit on you or leave you behind.

Yeah, ill stick with Brubaker's 616 Cap who you know, actually has layers.

 

[Horrorfan]

Yeah, ill stick with Brubaker's 616 Cap who you know, actually has layers.

616 cap always seemed to lack balls to me for some reason. But this guy chases a wife beater and teaches him a lesson, and goes after a norse God by himself when he think's he's been set up. That's just ballsy right there.

 

[Darthphere]

616 cap always seemed to lack balls to me for some reason. But this guy chases a wife beater and teaches him a lesson, and goes after a norse God by himself when he think's he's been set up. That's just ballsy right there.

Yeah a Norse god who get his powers from a belt. 616 Cap does everything Ultimate Cap does and doesnt act like a dick, go figure.

 

[Horrorfan]

Yeah a Norse god who get his powers from a belt. 616 Cap does everything Ultimate Cap does and doesnt act like a dick, go figure.

You mean like the real Norse god (of legend) did


Ultimate Cap isn't a dick, he just isn't a *****.

 

[Darthphere]

You mean like the real Norse god (of legend) did


Ultimate Cap isn't a dick, he just isn't a *****.

How is 616 Cap a *****?

 

[Harlekin]

616 cap always seemed to lack balls to me for some reason. But this guy chases a wife beater and teaches him a lesson, and goes after a norse God by himself when he think's he's been set up. That's just ballsy right there.

You learned nothing from the last time when we pointed out some of 616 Cap's badass feats, right? I really hate to have refer back to such events as him standing defiant to an omnipotent Thanos and trying to hit him. Don't get me wrong, I like Ultimate Cap just fine, but he's far from invoking the feeling you get when 616 Cap appears on the scene.

"Oh, somebody is gonna get an ass-whooping now."

 

[Horrorfan]

How is 616 Cap a *****?

I can't explain it...he just never seemed as 'tough' as Ultimate Cap, so maybe ***** is the wrong word. He seems too much of a walkover, at least in terms of attitude.

Also Ultimate Cap took shots from the HUlk that would have squashed 616 like a bug and was still standing at the end.

 

[Darthphere]

You learned nothing from the last time when we pointed out some of 616 Cap's badass feats, right? I really hate to have refer back to such events as him standing defiant to an omnipotent Thanos and trying to hit him. Don't get me wrong, I like Ultimate Cap just fine, but he's far from invoking the feeling you get when 616 Cap appears on the scene.

"Oh, somebody is gonna get an ass-whooping now."

For the record, im not hating on Ultimate Cap's badass feat just the fact that hes a dick.


Why did I quote you? I forget.

 

[Darthphere]

I can't explain it...he just never seemed as 'tough' as Ultimate Cap, so maybe ***** is the wrong word. He seems too much of a walkover, at least in terms of attitude.

Also Ultimate Cap took shots from the HUlk that would have squashed 616 like a bug and was still standing at the end.

Thats because theyre different versions of the character. Since 616 Hulk doesnt bite people's heads off and such.

 

[Harlekin]

For the record, im not hating on Ultimate Cap's badass feat just the fact that hes a dick.


Why did I quote you? I forget.

Because I'm right.

 

[Darthphere]

Because I'm right.

True that.

 

[Horrorfan]

For the record, im not hating on Ultimate Cap's badass feat just the fact that hes a dick.


Why did I quote you? I forget.

How is he a dick? That baffles me...

 

[Darthphere]

How is he a dick? That baffles me...

I think its been explained many times over by now.

 

[Horrorfan]

I think its been explained many times over by now.

Nope

 

[Darthphere]

Nope

I just think hes a dick, thats my opinion. I find 616 Cap to be a lot more interesting. I especially liked the part in the recent Brubaker series where he talks about how much he hates when people call the French cowards because they were right there with him fighting the Nazi's. 616 Cap has a lot kore emotional depth and isnt a government lap dog like his Ultimate counterpart, as seen several times including more recently Civil War. I dont care if you like Ultimate Cap more than 616 Cap, thats cool its your opinion, I dont like him. But to call 616 Cap a wuss or even say hes not as tough as Ultimate Cap is plain wrong.

 

[The Question]

Yeah, ill stick with Brubaker's 616 Cap who you know, actually has layers.

As does Ultimate Cap. As I said, he's not just a dick. He's a guy in a time not his own where the ruls are a bit different who's coping as best he can.

You learned nothing from the last time when we pointed out some of 616 Cap's badass feats, right? I really hate to have refer back to such events as him standing defiant to an omnipotent Thanos and trying to hit him. Don't get me wrong, I like Ultimate Cap just fine, but he's far from invoking the feeling you get when 616 Cap appears on the scene.

"Oh, somebody is gonna get an ass-whooping now."

Basically. That's the fundamental difference between the Justice League and The Avengers. When the League shows up, people are thinking "thank god, we're saved." When The Avengers show up, people are thinking "someone's 'bout to get his ass beat!"


However, I have been getting similar vibes from Ultimate Cap as of late. The last page of the last issue of Ultimates had that feeling.

I just think hes a dick, thats my opinion. I find 616 Cap to be a lot more interesting. I especially liked the part in the recent Brubaker series where he talks about how much he hates when people call the French cowards because they were right there with him fighting the Nazi's. 616 Cap has a lot kore emotional depth and isnt a government lap dog like his Ultimate counterpart, as seen several times including more recently Civil War. I dont care if you like Ultimate Cap more than 616 Cap, thats cool its your opinion, I dont like him. But to call 616 Cap a wuss or even say hes not as tough as Ultimate Cap is plain wrong.

Just as saying that Ultimate Cap has no depth is just plain wrong. He's not some two dimensional badass yesman. He's a guy from a time where America was right, America's enemies were wrong, and that was the end of the arguement. Now, things are alot more complex, and he's having a hard time dealing with that. Remember, 616 Cap, as he is now, has had over a decade to adjust to the modern world. Ultimate Cap's had slightly over a year.

 

[Darthphere]

Just as saying that Ultimate Cap has no depth is just plain wrong. He's not some two dimensional badass yesman. He's a guy from a time where America was right, America's enemies were wrong, and that was the end of the arguement. Now, things are alot more complex, and he's having a hard time dealing with that. Remember, 616 Cap, as he is now, has had over a decade to adjust to the modern world. Ultimate Cap's had slightly over a year.

Ultimate Cap is sadly a government yes man, no way around that one.

 

[The Question]

Okay. Did you just read what I wrote. I shall repeat:



Ultimate Cap is from a time where the U.S. was right and the U.S.'s enemies were wrong, end of descusion. That's how Cap, as a soldier, thought and operated for years. Now he's been thrust into a time where things are much more complex, and he's coping as best he can. Remember, 616 Cap has had over a decade to cope with the changed times. Ultimate Cap has had little over a year.

 

[Darthphere]

Okay. Did you just read what I wrote. I shall repeat:



Ultimate Cap is from a time where the U.S. was right and the U.S.'s enemies were wrong, end of descusion. That's how Cap, as a soldier, thought and operated for years. Now he's been thrust into a time where things are much more complex, and he's coping as best he can. Remember, 616 Cap has had over a decade to cope with the changed times. Ultimate Cap has had little over a year.

Yeah, I read your excuse, and simply put, I dont buy it.

 

[The Question]

Why not?

 

[Darthphere]

Why not?

Because I dont. I dont know how being a man out of time automatically means "hey I dont know how to be, let me be a dick." Yeah, yeah, I know hes more than just a dick, but you even admit hes a dick, and you like the character.