Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 1

[Llama_Shepherd]

Making a Spider-Man film every two years is as fast as you can, pretty much.

Disney has the advantage of being able to produce more films and split characters across films.

 

[roach]

Making a Spider-Man film every two years is as fast as you can, pretty much.

Disney has the advantage of being able to produce more films and split characters across films.

But isnt that what WB/DC is doing since BvsS will be out in 2015?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Not the same situation. BvS wasn't even planned post MOS. Also, Man of Steel had delayed post-production, but production itself finished early 2012.

 

[roach]

Not the same situation. BvS wasn't even planned post MOS. Also, Man of Steel had delayed post-production, but production itself finished early 2012.

you mean pre MOS...right?
Which is correct WB had nothing DC planned until after MOS dropped. They wanted to see what MOS would do before they proceeded.

 

[DrCosmic]

I think you guys are putting way too much emphasis on Jeff Robinov's comment.
Why would a guy who was passed up for the studio chief job, was marginalized at the studio, iced out of key decisions, that the studio leaked stories about his bad behavior...why would that guy want to take a dump on that studio's big summer movie?

He didn't take a dump at all, he had high expectations and only positive things to say, maybe because he felt his input here would help redeem him or something, I dunno.

 

[roach]

He didn't take a dump at all, he had high expectations and only positive things to say, maybe because he felt his input here would help redeem him or something, I dunno.

MOS wasn't going to redeem him. There were reports before MOS came out that he was gonna get canned. No one was predicting this movie to make 1Bil. The early numbers didn't support it. He was @#$%ed over by WB and used this chance to get back at them.
and it worked
Because we have been discussing how a film took in $650M and is considered a disappointment. If this was a disappointment to WB Goyer would not be back...Snyder would not be back.

 

[jmc]

MOS wasn't going to redeem him. There were reports before MOS came out that he was gonna get canned. No one was predicting this movie to make 1Bil. The early numbers didn't support it. He was @#$%ed over by WB and used this chance to get back at them.
and it worked
Because we have been discussing how a film took in $650M and is considered a disappointment. If this was a disappointment to WB Goyer would not be back...Snyder would not be back.

It was a disappointment because Batman vs Superman is merely being made to generate more money. If MoS makes the money WB wanted then in 2015 its MoS2 no questions asked. The thing you're mistaking is the film didn't outright flop which is why Synder is coming back, in fact for any franchise $650 is a fantastic number - but not for Superman.

 

[roach]

That makes no sense. How is $650m low for Superman yet Mos is the highest grossing Superman movie?
The Dc universe is built on Superman and Batman. Introing Batman is logical especially since they are leading to a JL movie. Batman and Superman are the foundations of that universe.
If this movie was a disappointment in anyway a follow up wouldn't have been announced as quickly...look how long they remained silent on a Superman Returns sequel.

 

[jmc]

That makes no sense. How is $650m low for Superman yet Mos is the highest grossing Superman movie?
The Dc universe is built on Superman and Batman. Introing Batman is logical especially since they are leading to a JL movie. Batman and Superman are the foundations of that universe.
If this movie was a disappointment in anyway a follow up wouldn't have been announced as quickly...look how long they remained silent on a Superman Returns sequel.

Are you honestly that naive?

 

[HighFivingMF]

Batman vs Superman is merely being made to generate more money.

Studios making a movie because they want money!? Well I never!

 

[smallville fan]

It was a disappointment because Batman vs Superman is merely being made to generate more money. If MoS makes the money WB wanted then in 2015 its MoS2 no questions asked. The thing you're mistaking is the film didn't outright flop which is why Synder is coming back, in fact for any franchise $650 is a fantastic number - but not for Superman.

It's also naive to believe that WB/DC would gamble all their money on a solo Superman movie planned spontaneously rather than a carefully planned World's Finest movie which has been in the pipeline for 11 years when going up against Titans like Avengers 2 and Star Wars VII which had probably more thought put into them. Check out Arach Knight's posts here. He says some pretty interesting facts. http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=26633719

 

[Shikamaru]

It was a disappointment because Batman vs Superman is merely being made to generate more money. If MoS makes the money WB wanted then in 2015 its MoS2 no questions asked. The thing you're mistaking is the film didn't outright flop which is why Synder is coming back, in fact for any franchise $650 is a fantastic number - but not for Superman.

It is a fantastic and realistic number for Superman given the factors involved.

You're ignoring the fact that, much like every other reboot so far, MOS carried the burden of being a reboot and of being the first film released after a Superman film that left a sour taste for most viewers. Add to that the fact that it only had one or two weeks before it was bombarded with a lot of heavy competition every week after that and the fact that WB practically gave it zero marketing up till April 2013.

Each first film in each CBM reboot will make less money than the average film with the same character would usually make. The Amazing Spider-Man is the highest grossing first-film reboot to date with only $750 million, $100 million less than MOS. Usually it is the success of the second film in the reboot that determines whether or not the reboot was an overall success in the first place. If WB really is dissapointed with the money the film made and expected more, that just shows that they don't know how to run a film studio and how reboots in the comic book film industry work. They gave Superman a small toothbrush and asked him to clean the whole mansion with it in just a few hours. Then when he failed to do so, they were in shock and stretched their heads over it (not the best analogy but you get the point).

Furthermore, it is highly unlikely WB would've left Goyer and Snyder proceed with MOS2 for 2015 even if MOS made $1 billion. Chances are we would have still gotten the Batman/Superman film instead. 2015 will be a huge competition year for films, bigger than even 2012. You've got Avatar 2, Avengers 2, and Star Wars VII. Avatar made over $2 billion, Avengers made $1.5 billion, and there is arguably nothing bigger than Star Wars. These are all properties that even Batman could not defeat at the box office. Same thing applies to Superman. Since both Superman and Batman can't compete with these franchises solo, what was the financial step WB thought would be the best? Have Batman and Superman together in the same film. A very smart financial decision for 2015, but horrible narrative decision.

 

[smallville fan]

It is a fantastic and realistic number for Superman given the factors involved.

You're ignoring the fact that, much like every other reboot so far, MOS carried the burden of being a reboot and of being the first film released after a Superman film that left a sour taste for most viewers. Add to that the fact that it only had one or two weeks before it was bombarded with a lot of heavy competition every week after that and the fact that WB practically gave it zero marketing up till April 2013.

Each first film in each CBM reboot will make less money than the average film with the same character would usually make. The Amazing Spider-Man is the highest grossing first-film reboot to date with only $750 million, $100 million less than MOS. Usually it is the success of the second film in the reboot that determines whether or not the reboot was an overall success in the first place. If WB really is dissapointed with the money the film made and expected more, that just shows that they don't know how to run a film studio and how reboots in the comic book film industry work. They gave Superman a small toothbrush and asked him to clean the whole mansion with it in just a few hours. Then when he failed to do so, they were in shock and stretched their heads over it (not the best analogy but you get the point).

Furthermore, it is highly unlikely WB would've left Goyer and Snyder proceed with MOS2 for 2015 even if MOS made $1 billion. Chances are we would have still gotten the Batman/Superman film instead. 2015 will be a huge competition year for films, bigger than even 2012. You've got Avatar 2, Avengers 2, and Star Wars VII. Avatar made over $2 billion, Avengers made $1.5 billion, and there is arguably nothing bigger than Star Wars. These are all properties that even Batman could not defeat at the box office. Same thing applies to Superman. Since both Superman and Batman can't compete with these franchises solo, what was the financial step WB thought would be the best? Have Batman and Superman together in the same film. A very smart financial decision for 2015, but horrible narrative decision.

That's pretty spot on. However you should also factor that MOS was also made due to a court order from the judge during the Siegel/Shuster vs WB legal battle. If they didn't make another Superman movie within a certain amount of time , the estates of Siegel and Shuster would be able to sue and get the rights back. So basically they were under pressure for Man of Steel.

 

[jmc]

It is a fantastic and realistic number for Superman given the factors involved.

You're ignoring the fact that, much like every other reboot so far, MOS carried the burden of being a reboot and of being the first film released after a Superman film that left a sour taste for most viewers. Add to that the fact that it only had one or two weeks before it was bombarded with a lot of heavy competition every week after that and the fact that WB practically gave it zero marketing up till April 2013.

Each first film in each CBM reboot will make less money than the average film with the same character would usually make. The Amazing Spider-Man is the highest grossing first-film reboot to date with only $750 million, $100 million less than MOS. Usually it is the success of the second film in the reboot that determines whether or not the reboot was an overall success in the first place. If WB really is dissapointed with the money the film made and expected more, that just shows that they don't know how to run a film studio and how reboots in the comic book film industry work. They gave Superman a small toothbrush and asked him to clean the whole mansion with it in just a few hours. Then when he failed to do so, they were in shock and stretched their heads over it (not the best analogy but you get the point).

Furthermore, it is highly unlikely WB would've left Goyer and Snyder proceed with MOS2 for 2015 even if MOS made $1 billion. Chances are we would have still gotten the Batman/Superman film instead. 2015 will be a huge competition year for films, bigger than even 2012. You've got Avatar 2, Avengers 2, and Star Wars VII. Avatar made over $2 billion, Avengers made $1.5 billion, and there is arguably nothing bigger than Star Wars. These are all properties that even Batman could not defeat at the box office. Same thing applies to Superman. Since both Superman and Batman can't compete with these franchises solo, what was the financial step WB thought would be the best? Have Batman and Superman together in the same film. A very smart financial decision for 2015, but horrible narrative decision.

Believe whatever you all want. I don't ****ing care.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Believe whatever you all want. I don't ****ing care.

You've been such a Debbie Downer since you saw Rises.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Actually, jmc's been one of the more staunch defenders of WB/DC, especially against Marvel fanboys.

 

[jmc]

I don't know if I'd say defender, I give them crap when it's deserved, I just look at the situation from a neutral perspective.

 

[roach]

I am looking at this with logical eyes. WB is making some mistakes but I don't see BvsS as anything but a logical step towards a JL movie.
Or am I crazy to believe that the DC Universe comes down to Batman and Superman?

If this movie was a disappointment to WB a sequel wouldn't have been announced as quickly as it was...with everyone coming back. Also if this movie was a disappointment we wouldn't be trying to figure it out...they would be telling us.
Is WB disappointed in After Earth? Yup because they told us. Is a sequel coming? Probably not.
Is Disney disappointed in The Lone Ranger? Yup...they told us. Is LR2 coming summer 2015? Hell No!

and yet no matter where you turn you see that WB fast tracked a sequel....ever hear of a sequel being fast tracked for a disappointing movie?
http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/man-of-steel-sequel-underway-with-zack-snyder-and-david-s-goyer/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323836504578549641408007794.html
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movies/superman-batman-movie-comic-con/#/0

Do any of these articles reveal any disappointment with MOS?

 

[Mr.M]

After Earth was Sony. I think WB was done with M. Night after Lady in the Water, unless they distributed internationally for AE or whatever. Clearly, I think this move was a case of getting a property that could hold its own against Disney. Otherwise Disney would lock the rest of Hollywood out of summer 2015. You can't just concede a year like that if you are WB. Avatar is 2016 also, which will also lock in Fox for the sequels in 2017 and 2018. Disney is probably taking the winter 2015 slot as well, with either PotC 5 or SW7.

Warners is desperate and they made a business decision, not a creative decision. It's going to end up impacting the quality movie we could have gotten. There is no reason to rush this out of 2015 when 2016 is wide open. In this case, honestly I would have conceded 2015, but Tsujihara can't think like that.

 

[The Guard]

There sure are a lot of ridiculous, black and white assumptions in this thread...

 

[Mr.M]

Nah, not really an assumption. If WB was confident in Superman of all characters, we'd be getting MoS 2. Obviously they are trying to progress to JL, but when you have no confidence in the characters behind Bats/Supes, I don't see how B vs S is a logical progression to JL. Frankly, I think audiences need a break from Batman. Even the fans have admitted they wouldn't mind Batman going into hibernation for a bit. There is no reason to get Batman on the big screen for another 3-4 years when there are other characters that have yet to be adapted.

 

[roach]

I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I think that both of you guys are right in a way. They're not disappointed with Man of Steel, though I do think they expected it to make a bit more. The problem with finding out is that we don't know how early they were planning a Superman/Batman movie, but by leaving the door open and possibly calling it "Batman vs. Superman" when it's supposed to be a sequel to Man of Steel says something about how WB views Superman as a viable marketing product.

The guy may not even get top billing in his own sequel.

 

[jmc]

I am looking at this with logical eyes. WB is making some mistakes but I don't see BvsS as anything but a logical step towards a JL movie.
Or am I crazy to believe that the DC Universe comes down to Batman and Superman?

If this movie was a disappointment to WB a sequel wouldn't have been announced as quickly as it was...with everyone coming back. Also if this movie was a disappointment we wouldn't be trying to figure it out...they would be telling us.
Is WB disappointed in After Earth? Yup because they told us. Is a sequel coming? Probably not.
Is Disney disappointed in The Lone Ranger? Yup...they told us. Is LR2 coming summer 2015? Hell No!

and yet no matter where you turn you see that WB fast tracked a sequel....ever hear of a sequel being fast tracked for a disappointing movie?
http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/man-of-steel-sequel-underway-with-zack-snyder-and-david-s-goyer/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323836504578549641408007794.html
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movies/superman-batman-movie-comic-con/#/0

Do any of these articles reveal any disappointment with MOS?

As quickly as it was? It was weeks before they announced it. Most films get a sequel after the first weekend, or in some cases before the film has even come out. Try again.

 

[roach]

As quickly as it was? It was weeks before they announced it. Most films get a sequel after the first weekend, or in some cases before the film has even come out. Try again.

the first link was about a sequel being fast tracked...it was reported the Monday before MOS came out. We didnt find out until Comic con that Batman would be in it.

"Monday, June 10th - This isn’t exactly a surprise given the hot anticipation and theatrical buzz awaiting Man Of Steel‘s limited opening Thursday and wide release Friday in 4,200+ theaters. But I’ve learned it’s official: Warner Bros Pictures is fast-tracking the Superman reboot sequel with its successful twosome already in place: Zack Snyder reprising as director and David S. Goyer repeating as screenwriter. Goyer’s deal is part of a huge 3-picture deal he signed at Warner Bros for Man Of Steel, the sequel, and Justice League with Superman."