Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 1

[Aztec]

I love the Nolan movies, but I hope the new Batman isn't vaguely the Nolan Batman. I want to see Ra's Al Ghul, Two-Face & Bane again eventually.

But they can! It's a soft REBOOT after all. It allows them to use the Nolan films as a de facto backstory without being bound to them. Win-win. For example you can have The Joker but without having to explain who he is or where he came from. Yet the new actor would not have to be bound to Ledger's interpretation. Same logic applies to Bruce/Batman, etc. This allows you to avoid the pitfalls of TASM.

However I would hold off on Ras, Bane, and Two-Face. It's time for one of the very many other amazing Batman rogues to shine.

 

[Quinzel]

I love the Nolan movies, but I hope the new Batman isn't vaguely the Nolan Batman. I want to see Ra's Al Ghul, Two-Face & Bane again eventually.

I agree, as much as those movies were awesome, there are so many villians you just can not use now.

Even Scarecrow would be difficult to bring back if you were continuing. And he (probably) survived those movies. (Hard to say, with city in chaos and what not, he could have died off screen)

 

[Aztec]

I agree, as much as those movies were awesome, there are so many villians you just can not use now.

Even Scarecrow would be difficult to bring back if you were continuing. And he (probably) survived those movies. (Hard to say, with city in chaos and what not, he could have died off screen)

I disagree. Scarecrow is even EASIER to use now because people know who he is. No origins needed just put him on screen. And the best part? They can present him however they want. Soft reboot magic!

I also disagree that there aren't enough villains left. Batman has the best villains in fandom! There are tons of untapped characters to choose from. Penguin, Riddler, Black Mask, Hugo Strange, Harley Quinn, etc...or with the new element of super powers in the DCCU they could go with Killer Croc, Clay Face, etc.

 

[Rocketman]

We're definitely due for a new Riddler, Penguin, Mr. Freeze, and Poison Ivy. They're the only ones not re-interpreted by Nolan from the 1989-1997 series.

But on the other hand, we've never seen:

Harley Quinn
Man-Bat
Deadshot
Mad Hatter
Black Mask
Hugo Strange
Killer Croc
Clayface
The Ventriloquist

^ And I think it's way overdue to not have at least one of them. Some of those villains are great and have visually awesome cinematic potential. It boggles my mind.

 

[blalex620]

We're definitely due for a new Riddler, Penguin, Mr. Freeze, and Poison Ivy. They're the only ones not re-interpreted by Nolan from the 1989-1997 series.

But on the other hand, we've never seen:

Harley Quinn
Man-Bat
Deadshot
Mad Hatter
Black Mask
Hugo Strange
Killer Croc
Clayface
The Ventriloquist

^ And I think it's way overdue to not have at least one of them. Some of those villains are great and have visually awesome cinematic potential. It boggles my mind.

Well hardly any of those villains mentioned fit Nolan's universe. However, they can't use that excuse for the new Batman.

 

[Donk]

I think they could do an interesting movie with Killer Croc,but i'd really like to see the Riddler . Harley Quinn could be a possible fit if they were to continue after TDKR revenge for the defeat of her Mr. J

 

[Powerman34]

I was thinking today that in light of Ben Affleck's casting as Batman in Man of Steel 2, DC's future is not all that different than Marvel's cinematic universe...

MARVEL:
Marvel cinematic universe debuts with Iron Man in Iron Man

DC:
DC cinematic universe debuts with Superman, Man of Steel

MARVEL:
Marvel continues with Iron Man 2 in which fellow Avengers, Black Widow and Nick Fury, get expanded roles. While a decent movie, people complain that it feels like more of a set up for Avengers than an Iron Man sequel.

DC:
DC continues with Man of Steel 2: Batman vs. Superman in which fellow Justice League member, Batman, gets an expanded role. While it may end up being a good movie, people may complain it feels more like a set up for Justice League and less of a true sequel for Man of Steel.

MARVEL:
Marvel continues to build its cinematic universe with stand alone films for Captain America, Thor, and the Incredible Hulk. Unfortunately, Incredible Hulk does not gain the popularity expected, and its main cast member, Edward Norton, is recast for Avengers. The Incredible Hulk becomes the black sheep of the Marvel cinematic universe.

DC:
DC continues to build its cinematic universe with stand alone films for Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern. Unfortunately, Green Lantern was released prior to Man of Steel, bombed, and its main cast member, Ryan Reynolds, will be recast for Justice League. Green Lantern becomes the black sheep of the DC cinematic universe.

MARVEL:
The Avengers comes out. Mark Ruffalo replaces Edward Norton as the Hulk.

DC:
Justice League comes out. (UNKNOWN) replaces Ryan Reynolds as the Green Lantern.

MARVEL:
Marvel begins Phase 2 with Iron Man 3, Captain America 2, Thor 2, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Avengers 2.

DC:
DC begins Phase 2 with Man of Steel 3, Batman 2, Wonder Woman 2, Flash 2, and Suicide Squad (or Justice League Dark, or take your pick... etc)

Ben Affleck stars in 5 films... Man of Steel 2, Batman 2, Justice League 1, 2, 3

Robert Downy JR stars in 6 films, Iron Man 1, 2, 3 and Avengers 1, 2, 3

....

....

So basically DC and Marvel are pretty similar if it all goes to plan.

100% agree with this. Both companies have bad their successes and failures. However, like Nolan said once " there is a difference between the Marvel characters and DC characters". What works for Marvel would t neccessarily work for DC. I'm glad Marvel is having their success at the moment, but DC is not far behind them.

 

[metaphysician]

100% agree with this. Both companies have bad their successes and failures. However, like Nolan said once " there is a difference between the Marvel characters and DC characters". What works for Marvel would t neccessarily work for DC. I'm glad Marvel is having their success at the moment, but DC is not far behind them.

Facts not yet in evidence. Wait a few years, see if WB actually succeeds for a while post-Nolan, and then you can come back and say that.

 

[Drizzle]

I was thinking today that in light of Ben Affleck's casting as Batman in Man of Steel 2, DC's future is not all that different than Marvel's cinematic universe...

MARVEL:
Marvel cinematic universe debuts with Iron Man in Iron Man

DC:
DC cinematic universe debuts with Superman, Man of Steel

MARVEL:
Marvel continues with Iron Man 2 in which fellow Avengers, Black Widow and Nick Fury, get expanded roles. While a decent movie, people complain that it feels like more of a set up for Avengers than an Iron Man sequel.

DC:
DC continues with Man of Steel 2: Batman vs. Superman in which fellow Justice League member, Batman, gets an expanded role. While it may end up being a good movie, people may complain it feels more like a set up for Justice League and less of a true sequel for Man of Steel.

MARVEL:
Marvel continues to build its cinematic universe with stand alone films for Captain America, Thor, and the Incredible Hulk. Unfortunately, Incredible Hulk does not gain the popularity expected, and its main cast member, Edward Norton, is recast for Avengers. The Incredible Hulk becomes the black sheep of the Marvel cinematic universe.

DC:
DC continues to build its cinematic universe with stand alone films for Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern. Unfortunately, Green Lantern was released prior to Man of Steel, bombed, and its main cast member, Ryan Reynolds, will be recast for Justice League. Green Lantern becomes the black sheep of the DC cinematic universe.

MARVEL:
The Avengers comes out. Mark Ruffalo replaces Edward Norton as the Hulk.

DC:
Justice League comes out. (UNKNOWN) replaces Ryan Reynolds as the Green Lantern.

MARVEL:
Marvel begins Phase 2 with Iron Man 3, Captain America 2, Thor 2, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Avengers 2.

DC:
DC begins Phase 2 with Man of Steel 3, Batman 2, Wonder Woman 2, Flash 2, and Suicide Squad (or Justice League Dark, or take your pick... etc)

Ben Affleck stars in 5 films... Man of Steel 2, Batman 2, Justice League 1, 2, 3

Robert Downy JR stars in 6 films, Iron Man 1, 2, 3 and Avengers 1, 2, 3

....

....

So basically DC and Marvel are pretty similar if it all goes to plan.

I don't think DC will release any solo films (that aren't Batman or Superman) before Justice League at the risk of having another flop like Green Lantern on their hands. Unlike Marvel, DC really can't afford another flop. I think they'll release Justice League (which when you think about it is almost too big to fail), introduce Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, a new Green Lantern, then come out with their solo films building on the success of that. The only negative from that is there's not a lot of room for character development for the new heroes in Justice League.

 

[smallville fan]

I was thinking today that in light of Ben Affleck's casting as Batman in Man of Steel 2, DC's future is not all that different than Marvel's cinematic universe...

MARVEL:
Marvel cinematic universe debuts with Iron Man in Iron Man

DC:
DC cinematic universe debuts with Superman, Man of Steel

MARVEL:
Marvel continues with Iron Man 2 in which fellow Avengers, Black Widow and Nick Fury, get expanded roles. While a decent movie, people complain that it feels like more of a set up for Avengers than an Iron Man sequel.

DC:
DC continues with Man of Steel 2: Batman vs. Superman in which fellow Justice League member, Batman, gets an expanded role. While it may end up being a good movie, people may complain it feels more like a set up for Justice League and less of a true sequel for Man of Steel.

MARVEL:
Marvel continues to build its cinematic universe with stand alone films for Captain America, Thor, and the Incredible Hulk. Unfortunately, Incredible Hulk does not gain the popularity expected, and its main cast member, Edward Norton, is recast for Avengers. The Incredible Hulk becomes the black sheep of the Marvel cinematic universe.

DC:
DC continues to build its cinematic universe with stand alone films for Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern. Unfortunately, Green Lantern was released prior to Man of Steel, bombed, and its main cast member, Ryan Reynolds, will be recast for Justice League. Green Lantern becomes the black sheep of the DC cinematic universe.

MARVEL:
The Avengers comes out. Mark Ruffalo replaces Edward Norton as the Hulk.

DC:
Justice League comes out. (UNKNOWN) replaces Ryan Reynolds as the Green Lantern.

MARVEL:
Marvel begins Phase 2 with Iron Man 3, Captain America 2, Thor 2, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Avengers 2.

DC:
DC begins Phase 2 with Man of Steel 3, Batman 2, Wonder Woman 2, Flash 2, and Suicide Squad (or Justice League Dark, or take your pick... etc)

Ben Affleck stars in 5 films... Man of Steel 2, Batman 2, Justice League 1, 2, 3

Robert Downy JR stars in 6 films, Iron Man 1, 2, 3 and Avengers 1, 2, 3

....

....

So basically DC and Marvel are pretty similar if it all goes to plan.

Reynolds's Green Lantern does not exist in the same universe as Man of Steel. Green Lantern could be John Stewart or Kyle Rayner if they wanted to.

 

[Loki882]

If we're talking about Batman villains that haven't been used yet. I'd like to see Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Black Mask, Firefly, and especially Hush.

 

[jonathancrane]

Reynolds's Green Lantern does not exist in the same universe as Man of Steel. Green Lantern could be John Stewart or Kyle Rayner if they wanted to.

Or Alan Scott.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Croc, if done right, could make a great secondary character. Im ready for a new interpretation of the Penguin. Eh, maybe in another life.

 

[Powerman34]

I don't think DC will release any solo films (that aren't Batman or Superman) before Justice League at the risk of having another flop like Green Lantern on their hands. Unlike Marvel, DC really can't afford another flop. I think they'll release Justice League (which when you think about it is almost too big to fail), introduce Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, a new Green Lantern, then come out with their solo films building on the success of that. The only negative from that is there's not a lot of room for character development for the new heroes in Justice League.

Didn't TIH flop at the BO? And all they did was just replace Norton with Ruffalo? And I don't think it's too hard to put GL into MOS's world. For all we know the gov could've covered the attack by Parallex up by calling it an industrial accident or something. The attack in GL didn't result in nearly the proper dAmage the MOS had. In fact it would be cool if GL secretly went to work for/with Waller and ARGUS to watch out for alien paranormal incidents. Probably would never happen but it would be cool.

 

[regwec]

I don't think the GL movie was as terrible as made out. I don't think it was any worse than The Avengers. All the same, I don't really see the point in Hal Jordan, who is the least likeable Lantern. I would rather see Kyle Rayner, Jon Stuart, or even Alan Scott in a movie.

 

[roach]

I don't think the GL movie was as terrible as made out. I don't think it was any worse than The Avengers. All the same, I don't really see the point in Hal Jordan, who is the least likeable Lantern. I would rather see Kyle Rayner, Jon Stuart, or even Alan Scott in a movie.

Benedict Cumberbatch as Kyle
Idris Elba as Jon
Michael Fassbender as Alan

t:t:t:

 

[cleverusername8]

Benedict Cumberbatch as Kyle
Idris Elba as Jon
Michael Fassbender as Alan

t:t:t:

Cumberbatch as Kyle? No offense, but that's a severe miscasting in my opinion. He'd be much better suited for Brainiac, Parasite, the skinny/smart version of Despero, Reverse Flash... heck, I'd even enjoy seeing him as Sinestro or even Mr. Freeze (out of the box idea but I think he could do a lot with the character if they can get him a bald cap or shave his head). If Kyle ever shows up in a DC movie, they should get a younger, less known actor for the part.

 

[roach]

Cumberbatch as Kyle? No offense, but that's a severe miscasting in my opinion. He'd be much better suited for Brainiac, Parasite, the skinny/smart version of Despero, Reverse Flash... heck, I'd even enjoy seeing him as Sinestro or even Mr. Freeze (out of the box idea but I think he could do a lot with the character if they can get him a bald cap or shave his head). If Kyle ever shows up in a DC movie, they should get a younger, less known actor for the part.

it was a joke based on Regwec's signature

 

[metaphysician]

Didn't TIH flop at the BO?

Not really. It didn't do great, but it probably came pretty close to turning a profit in theaters ( 263M WW gross on 150M budget ). It definitely achieved vastly greater success than Green Lantern ( 219M WW gross on 200M budget ). There aren't really any transferable lessons.

 

[metaphysician]

I don't think the GL movie was as terrible as made out. I don't think it was any worse than The Avengers. All the same, I don't really see the point in Hal Jordan, who is the least likeable Lantern. I would rather see Kyle Rayner, Jon Stuart, or even Alan Scott in a movie.

While its your right to hold such an opinion, all the objective evidence points to it being an *exceptionally* minority opinion. Something to consider when trying to judge where a franchise should go.

 

[roach]

GL (IMO) suffered from the same problem DD had. They shoved too much into the film and tried to do too much.

 

[Xeno]

I don't think the GL movie was as terrible as made out. I don't think it was any worse than The Avengers. All the same, I don't really see the point in Hal Jordan, who is the least likeable Lantern. I would rather see Kyle Rayner, Jon Stuart, or even Alan Scott in a movie.

Green Lantern is an unwatchable mess of a movie. Even most of us dyed-in-the-wool GL fans can admit that. There isn't one damn thing that the people behind the camera got right about the character. Hal Jordan didn't have to be unlikable in the film, but the writers made him into an arrogant ***hole with no redeeming qualities. They had him sabotage Ferris Aircraft's drone demonstration, thus crippling the company, for no other reason than, "Whoo! I'm a hotshot pilot!" Worse yet, they made him into a coward when the defining characteristic of a Green Lantern is an unshakable will and utter lack of fear. The very worst moment in that awful film was when Hal gave up when challenged by Kilowog and fled back to Earth in disgrace. It was painfully obvious that no one associated with that movie got Green Lantern at all, beyond the "magic" ring and funky suit.


There's really no way to polish that turd. GL was badly written and directed. The actors would have been fine if they had been given good material to work with. The visual effects were shoddy, especially for Parallax who was an even uglier **** cloud than Galactus in the second FF movie. But the very worst part about that cluster**** is that it ended all chances of a another GL film being made for at least a couple of decades.

 

[jonathancrane]

If there is a regime change at WB, there is a slight chance a Green Lantern film can appear before the passing of a decade. Audiences can be forgiving: see Incredible Hulk and Man of Steel, both of which were superior to their preceding films.

 

[regwec]

Green Lantern is an unwatchable mess of a movie. Even most of us dyed-in-the-wool GL fans can admit that. There isn't one damn thing that the people behind the camera got right about the character. Hal Jordan didn't have to be unlikable in the film, but the writers made him into an arrogant ***hole with no redeeming qualities. They had him sabotage Ferris Aircraft's drone demonstration, thus crippling the company, for no other reason than, "Whoo! I'm a hotshot pilot!" Worse yet, they made him into a coward when the defining characteristic of a Green Lantern is an unshakable will and utter lack of fear. The very worst moment in that awful film was when Hal gave up when challenged by Kilowog and fled back to Earth in disgrace. It was painfully obvious that no one associated with that movie got Green Lantern at all, beyond the "magic" ring and funky suit.


There's really no way to polish that turd. GL was badly written and directed. The actors would have been fine if they had been given good material to work with. The visual effects were shoddy, especially for Parallax who was an even uglier **** cloud than Galactus in the second FF movie. But the very worst part about that cluster**** is that it ended all chances of a another GL film being made for at least a couple of decades.

Perhaps that makes the likelihood of a different Lantern (ie Kyle Rayner) appearing somewhat greater. It would draw a distinction with what went before.

 

[DocHolliday]

If there is a regime change at WB, there is a slight chance a Green Lantern film can appear before the passing of a decade. Audiences can be forgiving: see Incredible Hulk and Man of Steel, both of which were superior to their preceding films.

Both Hulk movies flopped. Don't really see your point there.