Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 1

[Cobblepot]

I honor my father by finishing his work. There's your motive. She is finishing her father's work. Revenge against Batman is just an added bonus, or as she puts it a reward for her patience.
She didn't hate her father because of his work. She hated him because he ex communicated her protector Bane from the LOS. She had no issue with what he did in the LOS. So why would she have an issue being like him by finishing his work?

Hate doesn't work like that. Hate is a very strong sentiment, particulary if you carry it towards a parent. I hate him because he banished my boyfriend from the LOS. But then again I love him his massmurdering side, so let's remember him like he was.

Bane's reasoning was stated earlier in the movie when he confronted Batman. He had taken over the LOS. "I am the League of Shadows. I am here to fulfill Ra's Al Ghul's destiny".

That was a ploy to mislead Batman into thinking that Bane was the main villain instead of his girlfriend. Talia was the general, he's was more a colonel. Fullfilling the destiny of the man who banished him from his one love and the LOS. Yeah, that makes sense.

In what way could he have figured it out he was being conned? What signs about Miranda Tate were there that there was something dodgy about her?

Because he's the Batman?

Not in the slightest. But then I apparently didn't get the Braveheart similarity either

There were many who compared that 'charge' scene to the scene in Braveheart.
Nolan takes lot's of inspiration from other movies (which isn't nec. a bad thing), but he dropped the ball on that scene. The firecrackers, policemen headbutting into machineguns, the Bat appearing for second out of nowhere in daylight.

There are many many other flaws in TDKR.

An unescapeable prison pit. From where 20 years ago a child escaped with ease.
Bruce magically healing his slipped discs and the "training' sequence that followed.
Bale's Batman voice
The entire police force going into a mousetrap.
"Robin" side story.
Bruce his magic brace.
Catwoman

It's was nowhere the masterpiece it's made out to be along Nolanites.
The 50/50 split amongs to critics.
So tell me why is everybody so forgiving about that movie?

 

[The Joker]

Hate doesn't work like that. Hate is a very strong sentiment, particulary if you carry it towards a parent. I hate him because he banished my boyfriend from the LOS. But then again I love him his massmurdering side, so let's remember him like he was.
Not forgetting Bane (the man who he ex communicated!) working to fullfill Ras's one goal in life.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Quote me the line where she ever said she hated him. She said she couldn't forgive him for ex communicating Bane. That doesn't mean she hated him.

Second, Bane was not her boyfriend. He was her friend. She called him that herself. He protected her since she was a child. They grew close and became friends. There's no hint of anything romantic about their relationship.

That was a ploy to mislead Batman into thinking that Bane was the main villain instead of his girlfriend.

Says who? Just because Talia was a silent partner doesn't negate Bane's motive or status at all.

Because he's the Batman?

I didn't know psychic abilities came with being Batman.

There were many who compared that 'charge' scene to the scene in Braveheart.
Nolan takes lot's of inspiration from other movies (which isn't nec. a bad thing), but he dropped the ball on that scene. The firecrackers, policemen headbutting into machineguns..

There are dozens of movies with charge scenes. Lord of the Rings springs to mind right away. Are they riffing on Braveheart, too?

No offense but your logic is silly.

There are many many other flaws in TDKR.

It's was nowhere the masterpiece it's made out to be along Nolanites.
The 50/50 split amongs to critics.

There is no 50/50 split with critics. 87% is not a split. Nor is 78% on Metacritic.

So tell me why is everybody so forgiving about that movie?

Brace yourself; because it's a great movie, and what you see as flaws, are not flaws to everyone. I mean you have Catwoman listed as one of your flaws, and she was one of the more praised parts of the movie. Hathaway even won a couple of awards for it.

 

[Cobblepot]

TDKR was rushed, it was by far the worst of the trilogy.
It's almost as if Nolan just did the movie because Warner ordered a trilogy.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah that's the thing, it makes total sense that he was fooled by "Miranda." She did everything possible to make herself appear as someone that he could trust (heck she even had sex with him for goodness sake). And, aside from a couple of lines that, if you read more into them, sound Ra-ish (but in a different context so it's not immediately apparent to Bruce), he has no reason to suspect her of anything.

Also Braveheart is hardly the first movie to have a "two large groups of people run at each other screaming and then start fighting hand to hand" and it certainly wasn't the last. How anyone immediately jumps to that comparison (I actually agree that it looks closer to the opening street battle in Gangs of New York) is beyond me?

 

[Cobblepot]

Also Braveheart is hardly the first movie to have a "two large groups of people run at each other screaming and then start fighting hand to hand" and it certainly wasn't the last. How anyone immediately jumps to that comparison (I actually agree that it looks closer to the opening street battle in Gangs of New York) is beyond me?

It wasn't the first and only one.
Braveheart is generally applauded for that great charge scene. It was very big for that time. Nolan might have even gotten the idea from Gangs. But it's just a very weird shoe horned in scene. It was also beyond me that it was only the police who was fighting on the good side and absolutely not one ordinary citizen. What Joker tried to do and failed in TDK, Bane and Tailia accomplished easily with a lie. The good people of Gotham...

I still remember seeing TDKR in theaters with two buddies. At the end we all agreed it was a far cry from Begins and TDK. It felt choppy, unfinshed.

 

[Neno_Kos]

TDKR was rushed, it was by far the worst of the trilogy.
It's almost as if Nolan just did the movie because Warner ordered a trilogy.

it felt like nolan lost a passion for doing it. i watched that movie recently again just to make sure I am not crazy for seeing this I dont see and every time I feel more and more like he did more as job and obligation to do it than anything else. people will say it was different kind of batman movie. but lets be real. that was not batman movie, specially not with 20 min of bat in it and rest of it felt like collecting paycheck.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

TDKR was rushed, it was by far the worst of the trilogy.
It's almost as if Nolan just did the movie because Warner ordered a trilogy.

Disagreed. It a great movie and better than most comic movies. It break trilogy curse with comic movies too.

I still remember seeing TDKR in theaters with two buddies. At the end we all agreed it was a far cry from Begins and TDK. It felt choppy, unfinshed.

I saw it with my friends twice and they think it a brilliant movie and great end to TDK trilogy.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, while I'd agree that BB and TDK are better films than TDKR, it's still a pretty great movie and better than most CBMs. Yeah, it has some glaring plot holes and I think it tries to do a little too much, but the movie still works and it has some powerful scenes. Definitely broke the threequel curse for superhero films, at least in my book.

 

[StormC]

So why do you think mass audiences and critics liked TDKR even if you don't deign it as good? Did Nolan sneak a 100 dollar bill under their pillows at night?

 

[Erzengel]

We can go down the laundry list of threequels that were critically lower but made financially more than it's predecessors.

 

[Cobblepot]

But that's just the thing. It got really weird reviews.
(cut n paste from Wiki)

The Telegraph granted the film a maximum score of five stars, stating that it is "a superhero film without a superhero,"

The Guardian scored the film four out of five stars, calling it a film of "granite, monolithic intensity", yet also calling it a "hammy, portentous affair".[

The film was crowned by Forbes as the best modern comic book superhero adaption on screen, even better than TDK.

There;s also this..

The Daily Mail's Chris Tookey said that the film was bloated and overly long, and criticized the sombre tone and lack of humor, despite praising the film's visually-impressive set pieces.[201] CNN's Tom Charity said the film was a "disappointingly clunky and bombastic conclusion to a superior series" and called it Nolan's worst film.[202] Anthony Lane of The New Yorker says that the "story is dense, overlong, and studded with references that will make sense only to those intimate with Nolan's previous excursions into Batmanhood".[203]
In reaction to fan backlash to some of the negative reviews, Rotten Tomatoes chose to disable user commentary for the film leading up to its release.[204] Some fans had threatened violence against critics while others threatened to take down the websites of movie critics who had given the film a negative review.[205]

 

[FunkMiller]

But that's just the thing. It got really weird reviews.
(cut n paste from Wiki)

The Telegraph granted the film a maximum score of five stars, stating that it is "a superhero film without a superhero,"

The Guardian scored the film four out of five stars, calling it a film of "granite, monolithic intensity", yet also calling it a "hammy, portentous affair".[

The film was crowned by Forbes as the best modern comic book superhero adaption on screen, even better than TDK.

There;s also this..

The Daily Mail's Chris Tookey said that the film was bloated and overly long, and criticized the sombre tone and lack of humor, despite praising the film's visually-impressive set pieces.[201] CNN's Tom Charity said the film was a "disappointingly clunky and bombastic conclusion to a superior series" and called it Nolan's worst film.[202] Anthony Lane of The New Yorker says that the "story is dense, overlong, and studded with references that will make sense only to those intimate with Nolan's previous excursions into Batmanhood".[203]
In reaction to fan backlash to some of the negative reviews, Rotten Tomatoes chose to disable user commentary for the film leading up to its release.[204] Some fans had threatened violence against critics while others threatened to take down the websites of movie critics who had given the film a negative review.[205]

Are you talking down TDKR just to make BvS seem better? Because TDKR has its flaws, some of them rather large, but it's a masterpiece in comparison to BvS.

 

[Erzengel]

This is when DC can get it right.

(1978-1980) Superman 1 - 2
(1989-1992) Batman & Batman Returns
(2005-2012) The Nolan Trilogy

So 9 years, 13 years and 4 years and counting.

 

[The Joker]

So why do you think mass audiences and critics liked TDKR even if you don't deign it as good? Did Nolan sneak a 100 dollar bill under their pillows at night?

Must be where Marvel got the idea to make the critics hate BvS

Yeah, while I'd agree that BB and TDK are better films than TDKR, it's still a pretty great movie and better than most CBMs. Yeah, it has some glaring plot holes and I think it tries to do a little too much, but the movie still works and it has some powerful scenes. Definitely broke the threequel curse for superhero films, at least in my book.

But that's just the thing. It got really weird reviews.
(cut n paste from Wiki)

The Telegraph granted the film a maximum score of five stars, stating that it is "a superhero film without a superhero,"

The Guardian scored the film four out of five stars, calling it a film of "granite, monolithic intensity", yet also calling it a "hammy, portentous affair".[

The film was crowned by Forbes as the best modern comic book superhero adaption on screen, even better than TDK.

What is so weird about these reviews?

There;s also this..

The Daily Mail's Chris Tookey said that the film was bloated and overly long, and criticized the sombre tone and lack of humor, despite praising the film's visually-impressive set pieces.[201] CNN's Tom Charity said the film was a "disappointingly clunky and bombastic conclusion to a superior series" and called it Nolan's worst film.[202] Anthony Lane of The New Yorker says that the "story is dense, overlong, and studded with references that will make sense only to those intimate with Nolan's previous excursions into Batmanhood".[203]
In reaction to fan backlash to some of the negative reviews, Rotten Tomatoes chose to disable user commentary for the film leading up to its release.[204]

Or these? You didn't expect every critic to love it did you? Even the gold standard TDK didn't get that. No CBM has. Most movies in general don't.

This is when DC can get it right.

(1978-1980) Superman 1 - 2
(1989-1992) Batman & Batman Returns
(2005-2012) The Nolan Trilogy

So 9 years, 13 years and 4 years and counting.

It so sad that we have not had a good Superman movie since 1980.

 

[StormC]

We can go down the laundry list of threequels that were critically lower but made financially more than it's predecessors.

TDKR only barely made more than TDK, though, so I'm not sure what point you're making.

Also, TDKR had better critical reception than Begins.

 

[Loki882]

TDKR rises is a decent to good but also flawed movie. BVS, is a crappy movie with a couple of bright spots (coughAlfredandWonderWoman) here and there.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Must be where Marvel got the idea to make the critics hate BvS

Marvel did make the critics hate BvS.






By making a ton of movies that were all 100 times better than BvS.

 

[EssayM]

Maybe it's lowered expectations after BvS, but I findI'm way more forgiving of TDKR now than when I originally saw it. I mean, it's pretty forgettable and the ending is stupid (all of them), but there's nothing particularly painful or unpleasant about it. I'd say it's kind of DC's Thor 2 or Iron Man 3: not great, but not the worst thing in the world.

 

[IronManHype]

TDKR had its flaws (as most CBM's tend too), but I still love the hell out of Bane.

I really would have loved to see the post-TDK movie that would of been made if Heath didn't die (Even 8 years later I still can't get over it.)

 

[StormC]

It might be a little tasteless to say, but I fear if Ledger was alive, WB would lean on Nolan heavily to include him even if it didn't fit the story.

I like the idea someone had to give him the DKReturns storyline; he's borderline catatonic in Arkham until he hears that Batman is back, and scrambles to have a rematch in Bane's No Man's Land. Wouldn't need to be more than 10-15 minutes of screentime.

 

[Flint Marko]

No doubt in my mind that Nolan had the Joker in mind for the third installment. You don't leave a character like that on the shelf.

 

[StormC]

I think he left the possibility open but I doubt he had any hard and fast plans for him. He never really gave the next movie's plot much thought until he began producing it.

 

[Flint Marko]

I think he left the possibility open but I doubt he had any hard and fast plans for him. He never really gave the next movie's plot much thought until he began producing it.

I don't think he had an exact plot laid out or the screenplay written, but again, I don't have any doubt that Nolan was planning on bringing him back in some capacity. Not only was it an amazing performance that elevated the movie, but it's Batman's (and arguably comicdom's as a whole) biggest villain. Not to mention he flat out stated "I have a feeling you and I are going to be doing this for a very long time".

 

[shauner111]

He was definitely going to be in it, but i think people exaggerate with how much screentime it would have been.

 

[FunkMiller]

I don't think he had an exact plot laid out or the screenplay written, but again, I don't have any doubt that Nolan was planning on bringing him back in some capacity. Not only was it an amazing performance that elevated the movie, but it's Batman's (and arguably comicdom's as a whole) biggest villain. Not to mention he flat out stated "I have a feeling you and I are going to be doing this for a very long time".

Expanded, better defined version of Crane's role I'd imagine.