Why does everyone hate The Batman?

[Binker]

Best thing you've said in this thread.

Thank you. I think I've made a friend.

Well at least you admit that the only thing driving The Batman is marketing. The entire show is about selling toys, not about respecting the Batman mythos.

Well.....every cartoon (better than sayign "animated shows") has toys being sold. That goes to TT, goes to JL/JLU, right back to BTAS to every show before that like Superfriends. I did not say it wasn't respecting the mythos.

"Dark" to Matsuda means not showing daylight. He doesn't understand the concept of a dark Batman.

He loves Frank Miller's and Jim Lee's Batmans. That's DARK.

You're 20, you say? Surely you know by now that no major company anywhere ever will accept solicitations for legal reasons, no matter how much you protest that you want no compensation. It simply can't be done.

What? BULL****! ... Damn.

Don't you even joke about that. If Matsuda ****s up the Justice League, I'm never watching Cartoon Network again.

Well not JL, but he has said to be wanting to do Superman & Wonder Woman.

If by "enhanced, improve, and reconstruct," you mean completely overhaul the storyline, redesign the characters so they actually look a little like they're supposed to, and disavow all episodes of the previous seasons, then yeah, I think that could work.

Well thats what they did to TNBA to resume that show.

Don't try to pretend this is the DCAU. It's not. This is the Matsudaverse. It's separated from the real DCAU, the Timmverse, by it's ridiculous character designs, ******ed and one-dimensional villains and origin stories, and completely incompetent Batman with invisible Bat-ears.

DCAU can be anything. Timmverse and Matsudaverse. If you wanna know, I did e-mail to WB (if it'll work) how much people don't like TB and they should make it darker. And that I mentioned that they must be seeign a small fraction of how people view it.

If I were you, I would do something to amke sure WB knew how you guys felt to either improve the show or start anew.

 

[hunter_hippie]

Well at least you admit that the only thing driving The Batman is marketing. The entire show is about selling toys, not about respecting the Batman mythos.

Oh please. What animated show isn't about selling toys nowdays? Turtles - toys. Pokemon - toys. Yugioh - toys. One Piece - toys. Shaolin Showdown - toys. Code Name Kids Next Door - toys. Winx - toys. WITCHES - toys. Care Bears - toys. I could go on and on.

"Dark" to Matsuda means not showing daylight. He doesn't understand the concept of a dark Batman.

I know. The Drac vs Batman DTV feature wasn't dark at all. I'm sure Matsuda had nothing to do with that.

Don't you even joke about that. If Matsuda ****s up the Justice League, I'm never watching Cartoon Network again.

First of all, The Batman is on WB - not CN. Secondly, shouldn't you be more upset by CN killing the current JLU (and Titans)? In theory, if you like the Dini/Timm-verse as much as you claim to, I'd think that alone would be enough to get you to stop watching CN.

If by "enhanced, improve, and reconstruct," you mean completely overhaul the storyline, redesign the characters so they actually look a little like they're supposed to, and disavow all episodes of the previous seasons, then yeah, I think that could work.

Yep. I totally agree with you. Because we all know that these characters haven't ever changed thru the comics, movies or cartoons over the years. We should stick to the black and gray Batman with purple gloves - that was the original concept and thus nothing should ever be different. Also, he should use a gun and kill people as much as possible.

Don't try to pretend this is the DCAU. It's not. This is the Matsudaverse. It's separated from the real DCAU, the Timmverse, by it's ridiculous character designs, ******ed and one-dimensional villains and origin stories, and completely incompetent Batman with invisible Bat-ears.

Um...no. The Dini/Timm-verse is not the DCAU. The DCAU is whatever DC (and WB) wants it to be at the time. Like I mentioned above, the animation style has always changed, from Superfriends to TAS to The Batman. It'll continue to change. Get over it. Or, continue to waste your time b!tching about how horrible it is. Either way, I really don't care.

 

[hunter_hippie]

What is Matsuda's full name? I want to check out what else this guy has done.

Billy Bob Matsuda. Go search for it on Google. I'm sure you'll turn up lots of references. You should see the pictures of his trailer he lives in & works out of. It's a double wide.

 

[Binker]

You know guys, what can we do to make WB restart this animated series for the better?

I'm in the like/dislike zone for TB, in case you ask.

Isn't it amazing that in the '90s where the movies weren't so good, the show ruled! NOw the movie, Batman Begins, rules but the show isn't so good. BROKE EVEN!

 

[hippie_hunter]

Oh please. What animated show isn't about selling toys nowdays? Turtles - toys. Pokemon - toys. Yugioh - toys. One Piece - toys. Shaolin Showdown - toys. Code Name Kids Next Door - toys. Winx - toys. WITCHES - toys. Care Bears - toys. I could go on and on.

The sad thing is that statement is true. However JL and JLU don't come up with various versions of things just to make a toy of it and toys aren't a huge part of the marketing of Justice League or any of the Timm DCAU shows. Unlike the Batman where the toys play a big part in the marketing.

I know. The Drac vs Batman DTV feature wasn't dark at all. I'm sure Matsuda had nothing to do with that.

I do admit that the Batman vs. Dracula was pretty damn cool. If the show were as dark as the DTV, most people would not have a problem with it aside from the Bat-Embargo.

First of all, The Batman is on WB - not CN. Secondly, shouldn't you be more upset by CN killing the current JLU (and Titans)? In theory, if you like the Dini/Timm-verse as much as you claim to, I'd think that alone would be enough to get you to stop watching CN.

So true. Though, I'm glad Cartoon Network canceled Teen Titans

Yep. I totally agree with you. Because we all know that these characters haven't ever changed thru the comics, movies or cartoons over the years. We should stick to the black and gray Batman with purple gloves - that was the original concept and thus nothing should ever be different. Also, he should use a gun and kill people as much as possible.

The problem though is that the Batman's stories suck almost every time. Plain and simple.

Um...no. The Dini/Timm-verse is not the DCAU. The DCAU is whatever DC (and WB) wants it to be at the time. Like I mentioned above, the animation style has always changed, from Superfriends to TAS to The Batman. It'll continue to change. Get over it. Or, continue to waste your time b!tching about how horrible it is. Either way, I really don't care.

Um...yes. Considering that there are various shows done by Timm that interconnect with one another that makes it the DCAU. The other shows such as Superfriends, the Batman, Teen Titans, and Krypto have so far been only one shot shows and never connected with another show like BTAS, STAS, TNBA, BB, SS, TZP, JL, and JLU have.

 

[XwolverineX]

I don't like it 'cause Bruce Wayne has an ugly nose.

 

[Binker]

Umm, ok.

 

[hunter_hippie]

The sad thing is that statement is true. However JL and JLU don't come up with various versions of things just to make a toy of it and toys aren't a huge part of the marketing of Justice League or any of the Timm DCAU shows. Unlike the Batman where the toys play a big part in the marketing.

Really? How many Flash, GL, Batman MM, WW, Hawkgirl and Superman repaints/crap toys have we gotten? To many.

Same goes for BTAS. Too many repaints & knightstrike/hunter/battle sled/etc variations.

It's always about marketing - cartoons are a commercial plain and simple - no matter what carttoon we're talking about.

So true. Though, I'm glad Cartoon Network canceled Teen Titans

Really? Hmm...

The problem though is that the Batman's stories suck almost every time. Plain and simple.

I'll agree to a degree. They aren't the best stories every week, but I'd rather watch them than some of the other cr@p that's on tv nowdays. Ever seen 'my gym partner's a monkey'?

Um...yes. Considering that there are various shows done by Timm that interconnect with one another that makes it the DCAU. The other shows such as Superfriends, the Batman, Teen Titans, and Krypto have so far been only one shot shows and never connected with another show like BTAS, STAS, TNBA, BB, SS, TZP, JL, and JLU have.

Actually, Batman from Superfriends crossed over with Scooby Doo, which is cannon WB and DC stuff. Does that make the Superfriends Batman and Robin the definitave Batman? No.

Titans crossed over with JLU - Speedy made an appearance just this past weekend and as we discussed before, Nightwing shows up as well. Since Robin will show up in The Batman next season, they're all connected.

So, thanks to Hippie_Hunter, we've proven that The Batman and JLU are in the same universe! Thanks Hippie! You rock!

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Well thats what they did to TNBA to resume that show.

They redesigned Scarecrow and made slight alterations to other characters. Robin became Nightwing and we got a new Robin. They didn't disavow the previous seasons. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Oh please. What animated show isn'tabout selling toys nowdays? Turtles - toys. Pokemon - toys. Yugioh - toys. One Piece - toys. Shaolin Showdown - toys. Code Name Kids Next Door - toys. Winx - toys. WITCHES - toys. Care Bears - toys. I could go on and on.

Oh! And hey, look, they all suck! Seeing a pattern here? I will also remind you that, like the man said, Justice League was never ABOUT selling toys. It may have sold them, but it wasn't the point of the show. The Batman is 100% about selling merchandise.

First of all, The Batman is on WB - not CN. Secondly, shouldn't you be more upset by CN killing the current JLU (and Titans)? In theory, if you like the Dini/Timm-verse as much as you claim to, I'd think that alone would be enough to get you to stop watching CN.

1. While it is on the WB, that network is so ****ing stupid that I haven't even thought about watching it for a couple years. However, it is also rebroadcast on CN, which is why I made the statement.
2. I am very upset by CN killing the JLU. It's a load of bull****. However, it's one thing to cancel a great show. It's another to take a crap all over its legacy by broadcasting Matsuda's inferior imitation of it. They've done that once with Batman, and if they do it again I refuse to watch the station.
3. I'm totally fine with Teen Titans being cancelled. The show was even worse than The Batman.

Yep. I totally agree with you. Because we all know that these characters haven't ever changed thru the comics, movies or cartoons over the years. We should stick to the black and gray Batman with purple gloves - that was the original concept and thus nothing should ever be different. Also, he should use a gun and kill people as much as possible.

This is what's the problem with modern-day hippies. It's great that you think about change, it really is. Change can be very important in a lot of arenas, and comic book characters are no exception. But it's problematic to automatically assume that ALL changes are good, and that's what people like you seem to do. Many of the changes that the character of Batman has undergone have been essential to creating the spirit of Batman that we know today. He doesn't kill like he did in 1939. Robin wears tights. Other changes weren't so cool. The blue and grey costume completely detracted from Batman's scariness, which is essential to the character. The movie costumes also have been pretty poor, looking more like stormtroopers from Star Wars than Batman. Batman running around in daylight in the Silver Age was a bad decision. Robin himself, it could be argued, was an unwise move. Are you seriously going to sit there and argue that every change ever made to the character was a good one?

Really? How many Flash, GL, Batman MM, WW, Hawkgirl and Superman repaints/crap toys have we gotten? To many.

But it didn't affect the show!

Same goes for BTAS. Too many repaints & knightstrike/hunter/battle sled/etc variations.

But those were kept out of the show!

It's always about marketing - cartoons are a commercial plain and simple - no matter what carttoon we're talking about.

One more time, BTAS and JLU weren't commercials because the ridiculous toys were kept out of the show. The actual majority of toys for BTAS were never even seen in the show! How, then, could it be a commercial for them?

I'll agree to a degree. They aren't the best stories every week, but I'd rather watch them than some of the other cr@p that's on tv nowdays. Ever seen 'my gym partner's a monkey'?

But why should we have to settle for substandard crap? There's enough people that DEMAND bad TV, that the rest of us should at least TRY to counterbalance them with an outcry for something with a little substance.

Actually, Batman from Superfriends crossed over with Scooby Doo, which is cannon WB and DC stuff. Does that make the Superfriends Batman and Robin the definitave Batman? No.

1. Has DC ever done Scooby comics? If not, then this can't be more than an Elseworlds crossover (can't believe I'm analyzing the freaking Scooby Batman movie.)
2. Was that actually the Batman from SuperFriends? I haven't watched it in awhile, was there something that indicated that it was for sure the SuperFriends Batman?

Titans crossed over with JLU - Speedy made an appearance just this past weekend and as we discussed before, Nightwing shows up as well. Since Robin will show up in The Batman next season, they're all connected.

Not quite. If all it takes to be in the same universe is to have the same characters, than you didn't even need to do this. Batman exists in the Matsudaverse and in the DCAU. Even though Speedy was in both shows, there was nothing to suggest that it was the same Speedy. Speedy in Teen Titans never mentions Green Arrow. For that matter, Teen Titans Robin never mentions Batman. There's nothing to suggest continuity with each other. The Matsudaverse remains squarely outside the DCAU.

 

[hunter_hippie]

Oh! And hey, look, they all suck! Seeing a pattern here? I will also remind you that, like the man said, Justice League was never ABOUT selling toys. It may have sold them, but it wasn't the point of the show. The Batman is 100% about selling merchandise.

I'll be you were one of the fans that complained about the TAS figures not making sense - "Batman wouldn't wear that. Batman wouldn't have that huge honking gun/missile launcher/satelite dish on his arm!" - yet now that some of the costumes (such as anti freeze Batman) are showing up both on the toon and in action figure form, they're doing something wrong??? Please. I guess it's true when they say you can't please all the people all the time.

Look at it this way. Batman is among the top rated show in it's demographic each week with both boys and girls. Getting kids interested in Batman is a good thing, right?

1. While it is on the WB, that network is so ****ing stupid that I haven't even thought about watching it for a couple years. However, it is also rebroadcast on CN, which is why I made the statement.

Funny...I've just looked at the next week's worth of CN schedules and I don't see The Batman anywhere. When exactly is it being rebroadcast on CN? (It was briefly shown on CN - but it's not anymore.)

2. I am very upset by CN killing the JLU. It's a load of bull****. However, it's one thing to cancel a great show. It's another to take a crap all over its legacy by broadcasting Matsuda's inferior imitation of it. They've done that once with Batman, and if they do it again I refuse to watch the station.

So, you'll complain and complain about The Batman, but you won't take a stand about a 'great show'? Hmm...what's wrong with this picture?

3. I'm totally fine with Teen Titans being cancelled. The show was even worse than The Batman.

In your opinion. I'd wager that Titans has just as many fans as JLU does - just in a different age range.

Change can be very important in a lot of arenas, and comic book characters are no exception. But it's problematic to automatically assume that ALL changes are good, and that's what people like you seem to do.

Didn't say they were. (Psst - it's a little something I like to call 'sarcasim' - look it up.)

Many of the changes that the character of Batman has undergone have been essential to creating the spirit of Batman that we know today. He doesn't kill like he did in 1939. Robin wears tights. Other changes weren't so cool. The blue and grey costume completely detracted from Batman's scariness, which is essential to the character. The movie costumes also have been pretty poor, looking more like stormtroopers from Star Wars than Batman. Batman running around in daylight in the Silver Age was a bad decision. Robin himself, it could be argued, was an unwise move. Are you seriously going to sit there and argue that every change ever made to the character was a good one?

Those are all your opinions. Not fact in any way shape or form. There's a difference and that's something that kids like you are probably too young to realize. Someday you'll understand what I'm talking about after you've experienced a little more of life.

One more time, BTAS and JLU weren't commercials because the ridiculous toys were kept out of the show. The actual majority of toys for BTAS were never even seen in the show! How, then, could it be a commercial for them?

Everything on TV is a commercial in today's market. Please don't make me educate you on marketing.

But why should we have to settle for substandard crap? There's enough people that DEMAND bad TV, that the rest of us should at least TRY to counterbalance them with an outcry for something with a little substance.

How about you write a letter to DC or WB? How about you make your own cartoon that's faithful to what you think Batman should be. Make sure that it doesn't copy TAS or anything that's come before it though. After you put it up, we'll all sit around and bash it for months on end.

1. Has DC ever done Scooby comics? If not, then this can't be more than an Elseworlds crossover (can't believe I'm analyzing the freaking Scooby Batman movie.)

Yes. Do some research.

2. Was that actually the Batman from SuperFriends? I haven't watched it in awhile, was there something that indicated that it was for sure the SuperFriends Batman?

Same voice team of Adam West and Casey Kasem (however you spell his name). Same animation style. Same character. Same Batmobile. Yep, I'd say it was them.

Not quite. If all it takes to be in the same universe is to have the same characters, than you didn't even need to do this.

Good. Glad we can agree.

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

In TODAYS market cartoons are, imo, all about selling toy lines. That doesnt make it okay for the cartoon to be substandard. Theres no reason to do a crappy episode just because they "main man" wants to introduce a toy variant. BTAS didnt do this. It had a toy line, yes, but, if you look at the original releases of the animated toy line there were only afew Batman variants. It was 2 - 3 Bat Variants and the rest were the villains. It wasnt until the show and the toys became a success that they started expanding the toy line into a more adventure/imagination line. This didnt spill into the animated series. Ill give another example of how a toy line doesnt need to affect the quality of a show. Superman:TAS. There were episodes that had Supes wearing space suits, kryptonite suits, and deep dive suits, among others. They also had toy variants with these, but you know what? It didnt spoil the episode. Seeing The Batman have a suit to combat the cold is okay, but you dont need to make it white camo in the cartoon. Seeing Batman run around in a white costume just looks rediculous. In BTAS when Batman came up with an antidote to combat Ivys formula to create a wooden exoskeleton he didnt turn his costume green. It doesnt need to be in the show to sell the toy. BTAS proved that, so why they feel the need to do it with TB is beyond me. Kids buy what they think looks cool.


Unless im mistaken, Adam West didnt do that voice, it was the guy who did the 60's cartoons and the earlier Superfriends episodes. West didnt come on until the Super Powers show.

 

[Binker]

Unless im mistaken, Adam West didnt do that voice, it was the guy who did the 60's cartoons and the earlier Superfriends episodes. West didnt come on until the Super Powers show.

The man's name is Olan Soule. Well known as being in the old Dragnet show and Andy Griffith Show.

He first appeared on Batman in the TV series as a newscaster in "The Pharaoh's in a Rut". Then he would play Batman, as well as various voices like Alfred for example, in The Batman/Superman Hour. He would continue to play the caped crusader 'til 1979's "The World's Greatest SuperFriends". Afterwards, he would only play Professor Martin Stein on the later Superfriends shows with TV's Adam West playing Batman.

Olan's last role was on the TV show "Homicide". He died of lung cancer three years later.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

I'll bet you were one of the fans that complained about the TAS figures not making sense - "Batman wouldn't wear that. Batman wouldn't have that huge honking gun/missile launcher/satelite dish on his arm!" - yet now that some of the costumes (such as anti freeze Batman) are showing up both on the toon and in action figure form, they're doing something wrong??? Please. I guess it's true when they say you can't please all the people all the time.

No, you misunderstood us when we said "Batman wouldn't wear that." We weren't complaining that it was something he DIDN'T wear in the show, it was that he WOULDN'T wear it, and he SHOULDN'T wear it. So now that it's being shown on The Batman, the basic complaint is the same. "Anti-Freeze Batman? Why the **** would you make a toy OR a TV episode with Batman wearing that ridiculous getup?"

Look at it this way. Batman is among the top rated show in it's demographic each week with both boys and girls. Getting kids interested in Batman is a good thing, right?

Actually it isn't. They'll get a very incorrect impression of what Batman is all about, start buying the real comics, and think to themselves, "What the hell is this guy? He can't fly like the Batman in the TV show, he doesn't have superspeed like the Batman in the TV show, he doesn't make up random gadgets to sell toys like the Batman in the TV show, his fight scenes don't show him and his opponent against a background of streaking colors, anime-style, like the Batman in the TV show, the dialogue isn't flat and uninteresting, the characters aren't one-dimensional and uncomplex, and he has Bat-ears! This isn't Batman!" Batman came from comics, and when his franchise eventually goes out of style, the last medium to portray him will be comics. He is a comic-book character, and we should always strive to be faithful, not necessarily to the original comic-book incarnation, but to the current one. The comic book, good or bad, should set the tone for how Batman is portrayed in all media. It doesn't have to be a carbon copy, but the tone needs to be the same. This is why the Star Wars manga comics were so ****ing ******ed.

Funny...I've just looked at the next week's worth of CN schedules and I don't see The Batman anywhere. When exactly is it being rebroadcast on CN? (It was briefly shown on CN - but it's not anymore.)

You're right. They still have their Batman section up on the website, but the show's not being shown currently. When I watch the thing, I download the episodes (and then delete them, because it blows ass.)

So, you'll complain and complain about The Batman, but you won't take a stand about a 'great show'? Hmm...what's wrong with this picture?

Like I said, it's one thing to cancel a show. All shows come to an end. To protest something that is inevitable, except maybe for The Simpsons, would be ridiculous. But if there was a Matsudaverse rape of the Justice League, that would be disrespectful to comic book fans everywhere, and it would be one too many insults to our intellect, implying that our characters are worth no more than a flat, boring, toy-commercial kids show.

In your opinion. I'd wager that Titans has just as many fans as JLU does - just in a different age range.

And that's sort of the whole point, isn't it? You have to be a little less far along on the mental development scale to enjoy a show like Teen Titans or The Batman.

Didn't say they were. (Psst - it's a little something I like to call 'sarcasim' - look it up.)

I didn't have to look it up to know that you misspelled it. Maybe YOU should look it up. But I guess that's because you're so much older and more experienced than me. You've done forgot more than I'll ever know, right?

Those are all your opinions. Not fact in any way shape or form. There's a difference and that's something that kids like you are probably too young to realize. Someday you'll understand what I'm talking about after you've experienced a little more of life.

Shut the **** up, you ineffective old hippie! How ******ed can you be? This whole debate is about opinions! Everything we're talking about is opinion! Whether a show is GOOD or BAD, that's all opinion. There's no objective measure for what is a good TV show. Good Christ, no wonder your generation failed. For every hippie with a concept of progress, there were ten like you who just wanted to rail at the establishment, change things for no reason, and smoke pot.

Everything on TV is a commercial in today's market. Please don't make me educate you on marketing.

Because the most powerful thing about The Simpsons, or Family Guy, or American Dad, or Justice League, or Samurai Champloo is all the action figures they're selling. Yeah. More people like the action figures than actually like the show. Right. [Sorry, if you couldn't tell, that was a little "sarcasim" for ya.]

How about you write a letter to DC or WB?

That's about as effective as writing to a congressperson.

How about you make your own cartoon that's faithful to what you think Batman should be. Make sure that it doesn't copy TAS or anything that's come before it though. After you put it up, we'll all sit around and bash it for months on end.

I'd be glad to do that, but I'll probably have to get some good writing credit under my belt before I can do it. I certainly won't try to design characters. I don't have the arrogance to think that I could somehow improve on what Batman and his supporting cast look like. If he was still around by the time I was in a position to make a Batman cartoon, I'd try to get the Timmverse crew to make the designs and animation. I'd keep it in continuity with the real DCAU. If that's what "copy TAS" means, then I'd be guilty. I feel no need to fix something that was never broken. Same reason I always thought the Ultimate line was stupid.

Yes. Do some research.

Why, when I can just ask you?

Same voice team of Adam West and Casey Kasem (however you spell his name). Same animation style. Same character. Same Batmobile. Yep, I'd say it was them.

Okeydoke.

Good. Glad we can agree.

We agree that your assertion that all Batman cartoons ever are connected is wrong? OK.

 

[hunter_hippie]

No, you misunderstood us when we said "Batman wouldn't wear that." We weren't complaining that it was something he DIDN'T wear in the show, it was that he WOULDN'T wear it, and he SHOULDN'T wear it. So now that it's being shown on The Batman, the basic complaint is the same. "Anti-Freeze Batman? Why the **** would you make a toy OR a TV episode with Batman wearing that ridiculous getup?"

Because it's about the evolution of a character - not the end result like TAS was. I know that understanding character development probably isn't your strong suit though, so I'll let this point go at that.

Actually it isn't. They'll get a very incorrect impression of what Batman is all about, start buying the real comics, and think to themselves, "What the hell is this guy?

Really? Let's see...

He can't fly like the Batman in the TV show,

Batman hasn't ever used a flight pack or hang glider type of device in the comics? Um..wrong.

he doesn't have superspeed like the Batman in the TV show,

I sure must have missed that episode. Which one specifically was it? Maybe it was a crossover with The Flash? Quicksilver perhaps? No?

he doesn't make up random gadgets to sell toys like the Batman in the TV show,

Right. Batcycle, batplane, bat cuffs, batmobile, batarang, etc etc. Random gadgets galore - whether they're designed to sell toys or not, they're there.

his fight scenes don't show him and his opponent against a background of streaking colors, anime-style,

Colors and style change. What was common in the 60's was replaced by the 70's, 80's, 90's and today. Deal with it.

the dialogue isn't flat and uninteresting, the characters aren't one-dimensional and uncomplex,

Really? Have you been reading the comics recently? They're pretty flat, uninteresting and the character is anything but complex.

and he has Bat-ears!

Depending on the artist, Batman's ears have always grown larger or smaller. Kelly Jones draws them HUGE. Should that become the standard by which every Batman artist is judged? No. It's called an artistic style. Something you, apparently, aren't familiar with. Look it up. We'll wait.



Still waiting.



Have you looked it up yet? Try a google search.







Done? Good.

Batman came from comics, and when his franchise eventually goes out of style, the last medium to portray him will be comics. He is a comic-book character, and we should always strive to be faithful, not necessarily to the original comic-book incarnation, but to the current one.

And comics are a dying art form. The medium doesn't work in today's 'gotta have it now' society.

The comic book, good or bad, should set the tone for how Batman is portrayed in all media. It doesn't have to be a carbon copy, but the tone needs to be the same.

So, Batman should be an angst filled loner that doesn't get along with anyone - Gordon, Robin, Nightwing, Superman, WW - etc, right? Since that's currently what's going on in the comic, that's the direction the show should go? Maybe the comic team of writers and artists should put together the tv show? As rapidly as teams change now, you'd end up with a very inconsistent story and artistic style.

This is why the Star Wars manga comics were so ****ing ******ed.

Sounds like you have a problem with anime/manga in general. Maybe that's your problem rather than how good/bad The Batman really is.

You're right. They still have their Batman section up on the website, but the show's not being shown currently. When I watch the thing, I download the episodes (and then delete them, because it blows ass.)

Then why download them at all? Just so that you can have something to complain about? Makes perfect sense to me...

Like I said, it's one thing to cancel a show. All shows come to an end. To protest something that is inevitable, except maybe for The Simpsons, would be ridiculous. But if there was a Matsudaverse rape of the Justice League, that would be disrespectful to comic book fans everywhere, and it would be one too many insults to our intellect, implying that our characters are worth no more than a flat, boring, toy-commercial kids show.

Um...they're fictional characters. They aren't worth any more than the paper they're printed on. They can be made to do whatever the artist/writer wants them to do. That's what you aren't getting here. This version of The Batman isn't final. It'll change. Just enjoy it for what it is now OR stop watching and quit complaining.

And that's sort of the whole point, isn't it? You have to be a little less far along on the mental development scale to enjoy a show like Teen Titans or The Batman.

Not at all. Titans is retelling versions of classic Titans tales. What's wrong with that? George Perez-ish stories with an anime art style. Sounds like a good mix to me. (Just my opinion though.)

I didn't have to look it up to know that you misspelled it. Maybe YOU should look it up. But I guess that's because you're so much older and more experienced than me. You've done forgot more than I'll ever know, right?

And the debate ends there. Anytime one person has to be reduced to complaining about spelling mistakes, the discussion is officially ended. Sorry - that's the rules. You lose. (Although, as further proof that the discussion has ended, see below.)

Shut the **** up, you ineffective old hippie! How ******ed can you be?

Um...yeah. Maybe next time you can slip a 'mom' joke in there to really make your point? That'd be great.

There's no objective measure for what is a good TV show.

Actually, there is. That's what ratings are for. As I mentioned before, this one is doing very well, regardless of what you and other detractors here have to say about it.

Good Christ, no wonder your generation failed. For every hippie with a concept of progress, there were ten like you who just wanted to rail at the establishment, change things for no reason, and smoke pot.

Making assumptions based on my chosen screen name is just silly. You have absolutely no idea anything about me, my age or my decision to inhale or not.

Because the most powerful thing about The Simpsons, or Family Guy, or American Dad, or Justice League, or Samurai Champloo is all the action figures they're selling. Yeah. More people like the action figures than actually like the show. Right. [Sorry, if you couldn't tell, that was a little "sarcasim" for ya.]

Have you been out of your house anytime in the past 5 years? Have you seen how much Simpsons merchandise is out there? How about Family Guy, JLU, Turtles, Naruto, One Piece, or Samuai Champloo? Merchandising isn't just about action figures (sorry to upset your rather limited view of the world there champ) it's about product on the shelves and honestly, there's quite a bit of it out there right now.

That's about as effective as writing to a congressperson.

Have you tried either? I'd bet not.

 

[Binker]

You know what, we need to set up a chat and do, in a Politically Incorrect style, the love/like/dislike/hate relationship of The Batman.

With me, droogiedroogie2, hippie_hunter & hunter_hippie. And anyone else.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Because it's about the evolution of a character - not the end result like TAS was. I know that understanding character development probably isn't your strong suit though, so I'll let this point go at that.

Character development is changing your costume to battle a one-dimensional ice villain?

Batman hasn't ever used a flight pack or hang glider type of device in the comics? Um..wrong.

No he pretty much just flies when he fights. Just straight up flies. No mechanical aid required. Dude just flies. That's cool for anime, not for Batman.

I sure must have missed that episode. Which one specifically was it? Maybe it was a crossover with The Flash? Quicksilver perhaps? No?

It's pretty much just any time he fights. He moves far faster than any non-powered human could. Again, that's cool for anime, not for Batman.

Right. Batcycle, batplane, bat cuffs, batmobile, batarang, etc etc. Random gadgets galore - whether they're designed to sell toys or not, they're there.

Starting to grab at straws here, aren't ya? The motives for creating those items are not something I'm going to tackle without research. However, I think it's safe to say that modern-day Batman (The Batman excluded, of course) doesn't just make up gadgets for toy-marketing purposes.

Colors and style change. What was common in the 60's was replaced by the 70's, 80's, 90's and today. Deal with it.

The whole fighting-against-a-backdrop-of-color-so-you-don't-see-an-actual-fight idea is a hallmark of anime. While it appears sparingly in other forms, its home is anime and anime knockoffs.

Really? Have you been reading the comics recently? They're pretty flat, uninteresting and the character is anything but complex.

Always with the fashionable trendy opinions. I'll bet you think The Simpsons rips off Family Guy too.

Depending on the artist, Batman's ears have always grown larger or smaller. Kelly Jones draws them HUGE. Should that become the standard by which every Batman artist is judged? No. It's called an artistic style. Something you, apparently, aren't familiar with. Look it up. We'll wait.

I don't care how long they are, he's just supposed to actually have them.

And comics are a dying art form. The medium doesn't work in today's 'gotta have it now' society.

As long as there's geeks, there will be comic books.

So, Batman should be an angst filled loner that doesn't get along with anyone - Gordon, Robin, Nightwing, Superman, WW - etc, right? Since that's currently what's going on in the comic, that's the direction the show should go?

I was speaking more generally. Like, he should be dark, serious, and competent, as opposed to the character on TB, who's about as dark and serious as Adam West and can't keep control of his own utility belt.

Sounds like you have a problem with anime/manga in general. Maybe that's your problem rather than how good/bad The Batman really is.

Anime, when it's done well, is an art form that I very much appreciate, much like Western-style animation. On the other hand, most of it fails to translate culturally, just as most Western animation fails to translate to Japanese culture. Those very few anime films/shows that are both well-done and universal in spirit, are among my favorite animation projects of all time (Vampire Hunter D, Mononoke, Samurai Champloo, Spirited Away, Akira.) I have much less respect for manga, generally, because it has the same problem as most standard anime does--it goes more for a look than for a cohesive story that supports that look.

An even bigger problem, however, comes in when someone tries to blend anime/manga with a pre-existing franchise that is very Western in spirit. The result, as seen in Star Wars manga adaptations and The Batman, is a mishmash of nonsensical garbage that is offensive to the intellect.

Then why download them at all? Just so that you can have something to complain about? Makes perfect sense to me...

First they yell at me for *****ing about a show I don't watch regularly. Then they yell at me for watching a show I hate. Sounds like they're the ones just looking for something to ***** about.

Um...they're fictional characters. They aren't worth any more than the paper they're printed on. They can be made to do whatever the artist/writer wants them to do. That's what you aren't getting here. This version of The Batman isn't final. It'll change. Just enjoy it for what it is now OR stop watching and quit complaining.

What DO you respect if you can't respect fiction and the creative process? Art, and the ability to appreciate it, is what separates us, in the end, from other animals. Why the **** are you alive if art is nothing more than a fictional creation to you? And no, I can't just ignore the show, because as long as this pathetic knockoff is on the air, there can't be a decent Batman show on at the same time. Good ol' Bat-embargo.

Not at all. Titans is retelling versions of classic Titans tales. What's wrong with that? George Perez-ish stories with an anime art style. Sounds like a good mix to me. (Just my opinion though.)

Oh George Perez. How your legacy has been soiled by those too drug-addled to truly remember you.

And the debate ends there. Anytime one person has to be reduced to complaining about spelling mistakes, the discussion is officially ended. Sorry - that's the rules. You lose. (Although, as further proof that the discussion has ended, see below.)

So it's cool to insult my intelligence and imply that I don't know what a word means, but when I remind you that you misspelled it, THAT'S when the debate has sunk to a new low? How's the view up there from your high horse?

Um...yeah. Maybe next time you can slip a 'mom' joke in there to really make your point? That'd be great.

Your mom was great last night. She really made my point. I slipped it in her.

Actually, there is. That's what ratings are for. As I mentioned before, this one is doing very well, regardless of what you and other detractors here have to say about it.

Oh, right, the old "It's good because it's popular" argument. I bet you listen to a lot of Nickelback. Because everyone else likes it, so it must be good.

Making assumptions based on my chosen screen name is just silly. You have absolutely no idea anything about me, my age or my decision to inhale or not.

Well, you claim to be a whole lot older than me, with so much more experience than me, which is a typical claim made by my parents' generation. You appear to be taking on the persona of the average wannabe hippie from the 60s, the kind that never actually did anything, just ranted about how everything needs to change for no good reason, and hampered the progress of the real hippies that were trying to revolutionize society. And the way you've been arguing, it's pretty clear that you smoke way too much of the freakies. Look, I get high once in awhile, but you've smoked yourself stupid.

Have you been out of your house anytime in the past 5 years? Have you seen how much Simpsons merchandise is out there? How about Family Guy, JLU, Turtles, Naruto, One Piece, or Samuai Champloo? Merchandising isn't just about action figures (sorry to upset your rather limited view of the world there champ) it's about product on the shelves and honestly, there's quite a bit of it out there right now.

First of all, I don't see why you would throw Naruto and One Piece in there. I was listing quality shows. Secondly, my point is that you could take all of that merchandise away and people would still watch the shows. People buy the product because they like the show. Whereas with the Batman, people watch the show because of its products.

Have you tried either? I'd bet not.

Hope you didn't put money on it, because you lost if you did. I've written to all of the congressional representatives from my state and personally spoken at length with each of them. Unsurprisingly, government remained unresponsive to the concerns of the people. I'm also planning to speak with my cousin Michael Uslan about the possibility of making the Batman movies a little more in line with the comics canon. While I know he's very much a comics fan, I don't expect the attempt to be fruitful. You've got to protect your bottom line, and a more adaptive, less literal translation of the traditional Batman seems to work pretty well at the box office.

 

[The Spot]

I like the show, I watch it all the time when it comes on and I bought the season 1 DVD.

 

[Binker]

Two things:

1:

Something tells me that once the show is done, and I watch all the episodes once more from thsoe DVD sets, I'm gonna look back and enjoy it and go "WTF was the problem?" I feel it on the bottom of my throat. Its gonna happebn.

2:

I think Bruce Timm likes this show. In interviews, Matsuda stated that he presented what the show was going to be and Timm came in and saw what it was. He liked it, gave pointers and that waa that. Plus, this show makes me think of another mixed and hugely successful Batman that is one of Timm's favorite Batman movies: Batman Forever.

I like the show, I watch it all the time when it comes on and I bought the season 1 DVD.

Really? How is it, even the features, how is that "New Direction" documentary?

 

[The Spot]

Really? How is it, even the features, how is that "New Direction" documentary?

haven't gotten to it just yet, I'm on Q&A the last ep on disc one. It was great seeing the Bane ep, as I haven't seen it since it originally aired.

 

[Binker]

When you see it, report it back here.

 

[The Spot]

Will do.

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

the documentary sucks. Its very short and theres not alot of information that we didnt already know about.

 

[hippie_hunter]

You know what, we need to set up a chat and do, in a Politically Incorrect style, the love/like/dislike/hate relationship of The Batman.

With me, droogiedroogie2, hippie_hunter & hunter_hippie. And anyone else.

This entire forum is practically like this with the occasional hatur or lover on board.

I'll agree to a degree. They aren't the best stories every week, but I'd rather watch them than some of the other cr@p that's on tv nowdays. Ever seen 'my gym partner's a monkey'?

Touche

 

[jaydawg]

Two things:

1:

Something tells me that once the show is done, and I watch all the episodes once more from thsoe DVD sets, I'm gonna look back and enjoy it and go "WTF was the problem?" I feel it on the bottom of my throat. Its gonna happebn.

2:

I think Bruce Timm likes this show. In interviews, Matsuda stated that he presented what the show was going to be and Timm came in and saw what it was. He liked it, gave pointers and that waa that. Plus, this show makes me think of another mixed and hugely successful Batman that is one of Timm's favorite Batman movies: Batman Forever.



Really? How is it, even the features, how is that "New Direction" documentary?

Did Timm actually say he liked it? I highly doubt that considering in every interview when asked about "The Batman" or "Teen Titans" he always states "No comment."

 

[droogiedroogie2]

No, over at toonzone's Justice League Watchtower, he almost straight-up bashes them. He says "Thank God we didn't do the Batman anime project," or something like that, and he makes lots of snide comments about TT.

I think Dini does a lot of the same stuff.