Why does everyone hate The Batman?

[Binker]

Where is that link?

 

[droogiedroogie2]

http://jl.toonzone.net/

it's somewhere in there. maybe under "pre-season one."

 

[Binker]

Its not there. I couldn't find it.

 

[biggles2000uk]

didn't dini leave WB animation after he had an argument with them about this show. Basically telling them to stick it and this was goin to undo all the hard work him and Timm had done.

shows wb don't show loyalty

 

[Darthphere]

didn't dini leave WB animation after he had an argument with them about this show. Basically telling them to stick it and this was goin to undo all the hard work him and Timm had done.

shows wb don't show loyalty

The Wb keeps crap like One Tree Hill on the air. That should tell you a lot.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Here is the real reason why people hate The Batman:

They don't hate it.

They like it in dark episodes like in Strange Minds for example or the DTV The Batman vs. Dracula.

They think they hate it because its "not like BTAS and the people who are making it are destroying it" and that ain't true. TB is meant to override the greatness that is BTAS and the people involve in TB not only love the show and are fans of it, but some worked on it (even TNBA).

The truth is: this show has a huge shadow on it: BTAS. Fans of BTAS think WB threw away BTAS and all its brillance that came from it, and that ain't the case. Shows like the rest of the DCAU (which TB is a DCAU) and animated realism from BTAS went into shows like today like X-Men: Evolution. Remember the cartoons before BTAS? How old and "grainy" they were, would you want that?

And BTAS nor the whole Timmverse aren't gone, you have those DVDs and they are remembered, like I said on how its animation inspired every show that came after it.

The truth is maybe that those TB-haters can't even let go or can't see that TB not only isn't , it doesn't have to be BTAS all over again. You can maybe say that there's nothing wrong except in their heads.

Since it debut the show has been getting mixed reviews, but we all know the truth: TB has the huge shadow of BTAS. And that's why people SAY they hate it. Some probably want TB to be like BTAS, and it doesn't have to be. Other are probably afraid that TB is replacing BTAS, and that ain't the case.

And people might think TB won't be dark to suit those fans, but except for the DTV which was dark, since its debut the show has become dark and maturing episode by episode.

A BTAS fan love this and so does me. Others too.

There is nothing wrong with this show. Just watch it and say to yourself: "It AIN'T replacing BTAS, it doesn't HAVE to be like BTAS, IT'S ITS OWN SHOW."

The Batman is not part of any continuity but it's own series which means it is not part of a DC Animated Universe. BTAS didn't became part of a DCAU until STAS was aired. Do you see what I mean?

Until there is a Superman (or other DC character) cartoon that is in continuity or linked to The Batman, TB will not be part of a DC Animated Universe.

It is also interesting to note that the term DCAU has become synonymous with Timmverse.

And my thoughts on The Batman...

I don't hate with a passion like some other fans, but I don't particularly like it either. The only decent thing I've seen to come out of that series is Batman Vs. Dracula. But even then, the movie was... well... nevermind.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Batman is a hateful person. For the longest time he has hated Hal Jordan for the Paralax fiasco. He hates Green Arrow, Hawkman, Zatanna, and Ray Palmer for mindwiping him and Catwoman, only forgiving Black Canary for their actions (because he trusts her most likely due to her partnership with Oracle). A day doesn't go by where he dreams of killing the Joker by his own hand. He hates Lesile for withholding treatmen to the Spoiler intentionally. He hated Artemis for becomming Wonder Woman and refused to let her sit at Diana's seat in the JLA. He only fully trusts Batgirl, Nightwing, Robin, Oracle, the Huntress, Catwoman, Black Canary, Superman, Wonder Woman, and the Martian Manhunter. Batman these days is basically a *****ebag.

I wouldn't say that he hates them, but distrusts them. Then again, I'm more of a DCAU Batman fan, so I wouldn't know too much about the matter.

The Aquaman fanboy in me is angry at you for liking the Superfriends

I wasn't old enough (in fact, I don't think I was born yet) to see Superfriends and I have yet to see an episode. Are you telling me that the reason why Aquaman is so hated is because of that show? Things are making much more sense.

I'm a semi-Aquaman fan and I've always wondered why he has such a bad rep.

 

[krpton2]

I hate him because i love supes.

 

[TIGER SHARK]

I love this toon. It's not the Batman I would like to see, which is the darker detective, but I have no problems watching it.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I wouldn't say that he hates them, but distrusts them. Then again, I'm more of a DCAU Batman fan, so I wouldn't know too much about the matter.

No he pretty much hates the people who mindwiped him. They violated his, Selina's, and many other's minds. What Lesile did was unforgiveable. He absolutely hates the Joker. And until Green Lantern #9, he hated Hal Jordan for trying to destroy the universe.

I wasn't old enough (in fact, I don't think I was born yet) to see Superfriends and I have yet to see an episode. Are you telling me that the reason why Aquaman is so hated is because of that show? Things are making much more sense.

I'm a semi-Aquaman fan and I've always wondered why he has such a bad rep.

Here's a preview on how Superfriends treated Aquaman, a bit exaggerated but a sum up of how Aquaman got his bad reputation:

http://aquamantrystostopmissile.ytmnd.com/

 

[Morgoth]

It's a pretty good show, not as good as Batman: TAS but so what? The fight scenes are much better. Batman's movements are also much more acrobatic, which I like.

The show's a horrible toy commercial and an insult to Batman, right when Batman gets his respect back they throw this crap at us!

 

[hunter_hippie]

The show's a horrible toy commercial and an insult to Batman, right when Batman gets his respect back they throw this crap at us!

Um...yeah. Thanks for coming into a thread and posting without reading any of what's come before your post. (FYI, we've already covered your arguement on a previous page. ALL cartoons are half hour advertisements for toys. Get over it.)

 

[Eric_Draven83]

Just wanted to give kudos to hippie_hunter. Why is it that most of these conversations get out of hand? Especially in regards to "The Batman." Just so it's out there, I'm 23yrs. old (as if that really matters anyways) and I also grew up w/Batman: The Animated Series. I own all the volumes and am looking forward to JL & BB next week. To be completely honest, I LOVE the Timmverse. Imo, there's just nothing greater. The Batman, however isn't aimed at my age group. I had my time. As stated earlier, the Timmverse isn't gone, it's cemented itself in both DC and animation HISTORY.

I wish the Timmverse wasn't mistreated by CN and WB, but I'm certainly glad that universe expanded into what it is today. C'mon, '92-'06 is a Damn good run. Let's hand it over to the kids. Let's introduce the new generation to Batman. I've read comments here saying that this is the WRONG way to introduce a new generation to Batman. Really? and Adam West's camp-fest WAS??? Give me a break. You know, the re-runs of the 60's Batman tv show was my first glimpse of the Dark Knight. In spite of the silliness, I grew to like the different adaptations of Batman. Everything from the comics, to cartoons, movies, etc. Hell, if I was able to discover the Legend that is Batman practically on my own, so can this generation of viewers.

All it takes is ONE show to get kids attention. They'll stumble on The Dark Knight Returns, they'll want to see ALL the Batman movies released before their time, they'll want to see the Timmverse. Give them some damn credit and move on. We've got hours upon hours of 'toons under our utility belts preserved on DVD (w/more to come), would it kill you to envision something that DOESN'T belong to you concerning Batman?

I will admit, The Batman isn't the greatest interpretation of the caped crusader, but I'm OK with that. I've found it to be enjoyable/entertaining. Just because I enjoy it, doesn't make me a mindless individual either. I'm simply content w/what TIMM invested his time in (all of us), and am glad the focus is being put on a new generation of Bat-fans. Oh, and YES, Batman will always be a commercial property because the character is such a HUGE part of pop culture...much like Supes. Wherever there is a movie/tv show, there will be toys, deal with it. We made these heroes part of Americana. We are responsible for this character's success (not excluding older fans). You can't sit here and tell me that none of you have EVER boughten movie/tv show based action figures/t-shirts/pj's/etc. It's pointless to sit here and complain that The Batman is a commercial for toys. He-Man or Ninja Turtles anyone?

To those who do enjoy this show: Continue enjoying it! Have fun w/it. IF you're new to the world of the dark knight, go out and read up on The Batman. Tell your friends about the comics. Catch up on the older movies and serials. Have FUN. Also to all of you "The Batman" lovers, thanks for convincing me to check out this show! I'm actually off to buy the Season 1 dvd in a few

 

[hunter_hippie]

Draven, I think that was quite possibly one of the best posts in this entire forum. Thank you.

 

[Rowen]

i agree, the thing that bothers me is not the kiddi demograhpic where alot of these superhero shows are headed, but when we the fans get cut of the super hero franchises.

example: peter & laird, creators of the ninja turtles, are producing a season of the new tmnt, thats aiming at the younger demographic. but thier also giving us fans the continuation of season 4 witch turns into season 5 on dvd.

so that means we the fans are not left out. we can continue having are dark, gritty, emotional, fun, epic stories tied to the story arc's on dvd.
while the kids get thier little fun season.

agian alot of compainies, artist, writers, & execs need to do this.

 

[Katsuro]

Um...yeah. Thanks for coming into a thread and posting without reading any of what's come before your post. (FYI, we've already covered your arguement on a previous page. ALL cartoons are half hour advertisements for toys. Get over it.)

Yeah, all cartoons. Like Family Guy, as soon as i saw the episode where James Woods guest starred, I know i had to go out and get my James Woods in Family Guy action figure. Right? Or like when Quagmire banged Cleavelands wife, the only reason they had that episode was so they could have the Quagmire banging Cleavland's wife figure. Right? Right?

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Yeah, all cartoons. Like Family Guy, as soon as i saw the episode where James Woods guest starred, I know i had to go out and get my James Woods in Family Guy action figure. Right? Or like when Quagmire banged Cleavelands wife, the only reason they had that episode was so they could have the Quagmire banging Cleavland's wife figure. Right? Right?

Well I think he's talking about kids' cartoons, but I still disagree with the statement. Batman: The Animated Series existed to tell a story, and never served the toy industry. If you wanted to make some outrageous Batman Lava Suit action figure, you couldn't expect it to be in BTAS. You just had to make it, regardless of it being in the show or not. The Batman, no the other hand, seems designed, storywise, to introduce new toys. The story is subservient to the toy market.

 

[Eric_Draven83]

Draven, I think that was quite possibly one of the best posts in this entire forum. Thank you.

No, no, no...Thank you.

Btw, Rowen...The creators of the Ninja Turtles are Kevin Eastman & Peter Laird. Both of which are NOT working together on the new show. I'm not too sure on the specifics, but they're just not working together on either the show or the Mirage comics. Though, Laird never ruled out re-teaming w/Eastman on future issues. For some reason, the Turtles work better when aimed at kids. I'm not sure why that is, but it just works. I've been watching the new show ever since it started and it's simply put, one of the BEST animated shows out right now.

It's actually funny thinking about it, because I never thought my brother and I would be sitting in front of the tube on saturday mornings (again) watching Ninja Turtles...a little over a Decade later. At least this time around, Laird has input on the show (Creative consultant). It's nice to see his work respected. Even though this show is aimed at kids, it's still amazing to me, to see what they can get away with nowadays. It's definately a lot darker and grittier than the 80's toon. And, how about what happened to the Shredder during the 1st or 2nd season? lol...WOW, I NEVER thought I'd see that on a saturday morning cartoon.

droogie, Batman:TAS never served the toy industry? I seem to remember seeing the shelves stocked to the ceiling w/various Batman figures. Some in different suits, some in Mech-Gear, some variants, etc. Most of the figures based on "The Batman", aren't shown in the series. I just saw the Mr. Freeze episode of the new series, but his "anti-freeze" suit used in the show doesn't quite match up w/the figure. I also remember several variations of Terry Mcguiness (Batman Beyond) and HIS bat-suit when that show was popular. We're not arguing that The Batman is Better than TAS, but it's amusing to me that you think these variations of the Bat-Suit is something that was spawned ONLY from "The Batman."

Please. I'm no toy expert, but I've purchased many figures over the years and I KNOW that no matter what incarnation of Batman the figures were based on, the suit was Bastardized. Be it "Batman '89", "Batman Returns", etc....each incarnation spawned action figures that were in some form or another, a cash cow. Like it or not. It's nothing new and it'll continue on through ANY line of Batman figures. Look at the "Begins" line of figures for god sakes. Not as many, but even still there are variations of the bat-suit. It's just a lot easier to pick on The Batman because it's not as good as TAS, right? We were suckered into buying "Generic Suit Batman" long before this generation.

On the different costumes used in The Batman: It could be seen as silly to people in my age group. I know Batman would never have an arctic chill suit at the ready for Mr. Freeze,lol. But, I actually thought that suit design was neat. It was fun. Definately not something Batman would invest time in, but from a design standpoint it was interesting. I remember as a child always wanting the Original suit from whatever series the toys were based on. I always made sure to get the original suit first and foremost. I remember looking into the different suits and seeing what else the Dark Knight had in his arsenal. I suppose it was because my imagination went nuts and wondered, "Gee, what would batman do if he were frozen? how would he get out??? How would he avoid poison darts???" lol. Tons of questions, which were sometimes answered by alternate suits designed specifcally for the figure line. SO, you see...these figures may seem useless to us (and for the most part...ARE), but to children they are fun. They DON'T buy ever single figure in the line (that's what Marvel Legend collector's do), and they know what's stupid and what may very well be a nice addition to their collections. That being said, give them some credit.

The Batman is CLEARLY not my Batman, nor was it ever meant to be. But, I enjoy it and appreciate it for what it is.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Mr. Draven, from what I have read, your posts are 100% true. My bizarro counterpart is right, the two posts you have typed are indeed the best ones here.

 

[Darthphere]

Mr. Draven, from what I have read, your posts are 100% true. My bizarro counterpart is right, the two posts you have typed are indeed the best ones here.

False, the best post was my earlier one wehre I was like OMG WTF!!111! THE BatMAN IZ TEH SUXXORZZ!!11!

 

[Rowen]

No, no, no...Thank you.

Btw, Rowen...The creators of the Ninja Turtles are Kevin Eastman & Peter Laird. Both of which are NOT working together on the new show. I'm not too sure on the specifics, but they're just not working together on either the show or the Mirage comics. Though, Laird never ruled out re-teaming w/Eastman on future issues. For some reason, the Turtles work better when aimed at kids. I'm not sure why that is, but it just works. I've been watching the new show ever since it started and it's simply put, one of the BEST animated shows out right now.

I thought i had thier names right, but thanks for the clear up.

 

[hunter_hippie]

Yeah, all cartoons. Like Family Guy, as soon as i saw the episode where James Woods guest starred, I know i had to go out and get my James Woods in Family Guy action figure. Right? Or like when Quagmire banged Cleavelands wife, the only reason they had that episode was so they could have the Quagmire banging Cleavland's wife figure. Right? Right?

I don't know if a James Woods fig is in the works, but there are Family Guy figures out. As to Quagmire & the wife, have you seen the Lois & Peter 'night time' two pack where they're in their S&M gear? Not too far removed from Quagmire & the Mrs.

There's also Family Guy bobble heads, t-shirts, a video game, baby clothes, etc, so, yes, Family Guy is just as guilty as The Batman when it comes to merchandising.

 

[Darthphere]

I don't know if a James Woods fig is in the works, but there are Family Guy figures out. As to Quagmire & the wife, have you seen the Lois & Peter 'night time' two pack where they're in their S&M gear? Not too far removed from Quagmire & the Mrs.

There's also Family Guy bobble heads, t-shirts, a video game, baby clothes, etc, so, yes, Family Guy is just as guilty as The Batman when it comes to merchandising.

I think the question hes offering is if Family Guy's sole purpose to sell merchandise like The Batman and other animation is said to be for.

 

[Eric_Draven83]

I think the question hes offering is if Family Guy's sole purpose to sell merchandise like The Batman and other animation is said to be for.

The Family Guy's (much like The Batman's), sole purpose is NOT to sell toys. What we have here is a case of TOY COMPANIES knowing that there's a market out there (those of us who helped get Family Guy back on the air) that are willing to shell out $7-$25 for figures of Peter and his wife in S&M gear. There's a difference. Batman toys are a given. Infact, the words "Batman" & "toys" go together like peas and carrots. There's just NO seperating the two. Both of whice are (in a sense) capitalizing or taking advantage of consumers. However, there are those of us who know what to and what not to waste our money on

Jesus, why do they show commercials during the Super Bowl? Why are Replica NBA Jersey's sold in sports stores for $50-$200??? Why do comics run Ads every friggin' 3-4 pages?? Why is there product placement in super hero movies? C'mon guys. Honestly. I think the reasoning behind disliking The Batman goes a little bit further than it being a "Toy Advertisement." I'd like to discuss what that is because, frankly I think there are some of us who've said all that needed to be said concerning Batman & Toys.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The only reason most Bat fans hate THE BATMAN is because BTAS existed.

Pretty good reason if you ask me.