Why does Superman Always Beat The Marvel Heavy Hitters?

[Infinity9999x]

He's reached that level of being an icon and a symbol ,he isn't just a superhero.

Basically yeah. Superman was the first Superhero. When you say the word Superhero he's the face that's basically associated with that word.

 

[November Rain]

His heart sure in the hell didn't jump out of his chest and save him when the "heartless" (cue extreme exaggeration of the word in sarcastic fashion) Tony Stark beat the living hell out of him.

There's a point where power overthrows "heart" and effort. Or else everybody would just stomp on Galactus and the Hulk. Hell, Gladiator has tons of "heart" and he's the universe's whipping boy lately.

I don't think you get where i'm coming from...

Cap's ability to stand up to greater foes as a human comes only from his heart to not back down to any threat.

Spiderman to some extent also has this ability and its why these figures are always fighting people who clearly outclass them on paper yet they come out victorious.

now imagine this same level of intensity of heart but in a being with the powers with supes and then you realise what kinda potential we are dealing with here.

I'm not sure if gladiator does have that much heart, he serves the crown and has been shown to turn his back on people who thought he was loyal to them. Doesn't show much heart to me. loyal to his duties, yes, but that's something completely different.

 

[November Rain]

Yeah, nothing else, especially not tactical brilliance, not nigh-perfect fighting technique, nor super-soldier serum.

oh yeah, taking a serum makes someone automatically better than someone who has been fighting as a 'GOD' for millenia, silly me...



for you to even step up to a deity and give him an order is one thing, for them to take it is clearly unfathomable.

batman is tatically brilliant, yet he doesn't sit as the head of the JLA. I'm not even saying bats doesn't have heart, just not as much as supes or cap in my eyes.

I've seen cap continue fighting when the rest of the avengers are down and that's pure heart.

again i reiterate.

Heart.Is.Everything.

 

[izzyspider]

its simple, superman is a bigger icon in the history of comics, the same reason why batman is more respected then more powerful heros in his own universe, when u think dc u think batman and superman

should superman be able to beat someone like the hulk.. no but the writer will never allow superman to lose cuz of what he is the industry

 

[PemLam]

its simple, superman is a bigger icon in the history of comics, the same reason why batman is more respected then more powerful heros in his own universe, when u think dc u think batman and superman

should superman be able to beat someone like the hulk.. no but the writer will never allow superman to lose cuz of what he is the industry

You're right about the icon part...but he should beat that green-skinned sissy virtually every time.

(Welcome to the Hype by the way!)

 

[PemLam]

^Yeah, I know I'm probably just asking to be lambasted by a bunch of "but he's got unlimited strength potential" Hulk zealots.

 

[The Leaguer]

oh yeah, taking a serum makes someone automatically better than someone who has been fighting as a 'GOD' for millenia, silly me...

Right, because I was saying it can only be one of the above, and not all of them. Way to use your deductive reasoning, chief. Also, way to focus on the aspect that's probably LEAST important when it comes to being a leader, you're clearly a master at argu-- oh hell, I can't even say that sarcastically. You suck at it.

for you to even step up to a deity and give him an order is one thing, for them to take it is clearly unfathomable.

Right, so clearly unfathomable that it happens all the time, like Captain America, Mr. Terrific and Batman. Speaking of which:

batman is tatically brilliant, yet he doesn't sit as the head of the JLA. I'm not even saying bats doesn't have heart, just not as much as supes or cap in my eyes.

Just because Batman doesn't head up the JLA (although he essentially does along with Supes and WW), that doesn't mean the JLAers don't look to him for orders on the field.

I've seen cap continue fighting when the rest of the avengers are down and that's pure heart.

Congratulations, you have eyes. I seriously hope you're not implying that Batman hasn't done the same.

again i reiterate.

Heart.Is.Everything.

Go ahead, you're just as wrong now as you were then.

 

[November Rain]

90% of comics are based on heroes overcoming adversities or villains who are on paper far greater combatants or more intelligent or more highly skilled than the hero(es) in question.

logically, another factor must come into play and i believe its heart.

which is why the 'intensity' of this heart simply can't be denied when sizing up one charater against another, especially when these characters measure at significantly different levels to one another.

if you don't want to count it in order to rationalise the phenomenon suggested by the thread starter, then good for you

 

[blksuperman2]

I was with you N Rain before you posted the Blade gif

 

[November Rain]

it made me laugh in community, i have a weird sense of humour, it's not seriously meant in any malice...i'm slightly messed in the head, that's all..

 

[Doombringer]

Just gonna let loose some steam cause this little debate always gets to me (and dont get me wrong cause i love Supes):

I understand Superman being the first and having seniority and being an icon and all, but i am one of those people who look at the facts. Just like in real life professional fights, mma, boxing, or other the one who is more skilled, better prepared, and is better on paper more than likely wins, popularity means nothing, just like realisitcally in a match heart means nothing, if the other guy is better than you. I dont play favorites and i dont like when writers play that superman should win cause hes superman (this is when he goes up against people who are equal to him or should be able to beat him). I look past all that icon **** and see who can do what and what thier potential is. Just because superman is superman doesnt mean he should win everytime. Thor, SS, Sentry, Hulk, Black Bolt, all have the potential to beat him a few times, but it will probably never happen because the writers will never allow or show that... its just stupid.

Anything can happen in a fight/battle depending on situation, preparedness, location, etc. It shouldnt be pre-determined that Superman will win all the time against other as powerful heroes cause hes superman and hes the first, and blah blah. Superman's amplified skill set is the only justification and reasoning, in my eyes, that keeps him where he is on top of the totem pole for me (in DC atleast, near the top overall), not his popularity and his iconic status. Thats my two cents.

 

[Badfish40oz]

Batman beat Hulk in a crossover a long while ago

Well, to be a fanboy first, it was a ridiculous "cheap shot" that totally went against the Hulk's continuity. Secondly, Batman didn't "beat" Hulk, especially considering just pages later Hulk DEMOLISHED Batman leaving him for dead in the remnants of a destroyed building. Yeah, clear win for Batman.

And to the topic at hand, Superman is an awesome character. Nobody could deny that. But IMO there are MUCH better characters out there. If it were up to me, he would lose to a lot of Marvel's characters. Mostly Thor and Silver Surfer.

But the problem with Superman is he's always gonna be the "good guy" in a fight. And in a one-shot crossover battle, the good guy is always gonna win. That's comics for ya.

 

[The Leaguer]

90% of comics are based on heroes overcoming adversities or villains who are on paper far greater combatants or more intelligent or more highly skilled than the hero(es) in question.

logically, another factor must come into play and i believe its heart.

which is why the 'intensity' of this heart simply can't be denied when sizing up one charater against another, especially when these characters measure at significantly different levels to one another.

if you don't want to count it in order to rationalise the phenomenon suggested by the thread starter, then good for you

I never said anything about heart not being important, I'm saying that claiming "Heart.Is.Everything." is stupid. Discounting everything that isn't heart, sort of like you think I'm doing with heart, is idiotic.

 

[Marvin]

superman beat hulk cause he's more powerfull
same with thor and whomever elses he's beat

the fact that it's happened(more then once i gather is proof enough)

maybe it's because its the marvel board(and this is the place for superman discussion these days) but

why the hell is it that superman beating all these guys "has" to be a matter of politics...?

"it's not fair that so and so company won't let such and such happen"

when rather is should be, "it's not fair that so and so character is more powerfull than such and such character"

think of it this way

bizzarro is stronger than superman, metallo's got his number...
now one could whine that it's the politics of the situation that results in superman always beating them...

or maybe, just maybe, it's less politics and more structured narrative...

superman is all together more "powerful" then these people.

that includes thor,and hulk

when superman single handedly beats the surfer, galactus and such...then this thread has validity.

 

[Marvin]

i love that gif n rain

 

[Caliber]

Superman beats everyone because think he can. If you really think about he couldn't beat half of the marvel universe. Juggarnaut would slap him around but the "goodness" Supes stands for somehow makes "better" than everyone. BS to me but somehow its "wrong" to say Supes a pansy who needs to get on his pedastool.

 

[Eddie Brock]

this is hardly a matter of politics
Supes has the ability to defeat them...he's freakin' Superman for Christ's sakes...

 

[November Rain]

I never said anything about heart not being important, I'm saying that claiming "Heart.Is.Everything." is stupid. Discounting everything that isn't heart, sort of like you think I'm doing with heart, is idiotic.

The statement i made is obviously a Hyperbole in order to reinforce the point i'm trying to make...

sure, heart definitely isn't everything but at some times it might as well be...especially in points where beings are on paper completely outclassed by their adversaries.

it's the driving force to exceed your limitations for your goal, it's the reason why mere mortals can have super entities and gods bow before them.

you put spidey up against pretty much any physical adversary in marvel and you wouldn't be able to completely count him out of it because you know he'll push himself that extra bit, or at least that's the way he's written.

i feel the same occurs for supes.

If these symbols of courage and determination are shown failing to do what they put their minds to especially in a physical confrontation where something they love needs protecting, then they overall fail as characters (unless the plot requires them to have some certain growth occur from an incident).

 

[The Leaguer]

The difference is that Spider-Man isn't that strong, over all, and Superman is f***ing Superman. You cannot put Spider-Man up against a rampaging Hulk and expect heart to win it for him. He would get torn to pieces.

 

[November Rain]

you say this but in canon, parker has admitted that if he really had no choice, he could kill the hulk.

whether he can or can't is irrelevant, parker has taken on peeps close or up to hulk's strength range before and he's significantly weaker than them.

now all i'm saying is that if you took someone in the hulk's strength range with the same amount of heart as pete, surely there is ground to believe they would win the majority of bouts as long as the motivation for fighting was on their side based on the fact that someone significantly weaker could have a fair go based on the same motivations.

 

[The Leaguer]

Regardless of the fact that what a character says can only be taken when a grain of salt unless it's actually followed up on, I'm sure Spidey meant he would find a scientific way of beating the Hulk, not via a fist-fight.

Anyway, what you keep describing is not about heart, it's about writers needing a way to have an over-whelming underdog win, and "heart" is their explanation.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

you say this but in canon, parker has admitted that if he really had no choice, he could kill the hulk.

whether he can or can't is irrelevant, parker has taken on peeps close or up to hulk's strength range before and he's significantly weaker than them.

now all i'm saying is that if you took someone in the hulk's strength range with the same amount of heart as pete, surely there is ground to believe they would win the majority of bouts as long as the motivation for fighting was on their side based on the fact that someone significantly weaker could have a fair go based on the same motivations.

Actually he said that after he fought a dead green mob Hulk. He was made up of a few mobsters and brought back to life. He claims that he can kill the hulk after he is able to fight the mob Hulk (by evading him) until the Mob Hulk tires and needs to change back.

Now the whole premise becomes that Peter beleives he could tire the Hulk and not allow him to change back causing his death. However, given the Hulk can stay indefintely like the Hulk which is shown in Planet Hulk then the whole basis on which he made that assumption is false.

In any case, if Superman went all out he should be able to defeat almost all the heavy hitters of Marvel. But he never does and he wins in ways that make it seem unfair.

by the way, NR, why do you have 'single mother' in your title.

 

[November Rain]

Actually he said that after he fought a dead green mob Hulk. He was made up of a few mobsters and brought back to life. He claims that he can kill the hulk after he is able to fight the mob Hulk (by evading him) until the Mob Hulk tires and needs to change back.

Now the whole premise becomes that Peter beleives he could tire the Hulk and not allow him to change back causing his death. However, given the Hulk can stay indefintely like the Hulk which is shown in Planet Hulk then the whole basis on which he made that assumption is false.

In any case, if Superman went all out he should be able to defeat almost all the heavy hitters of Marvel. But he never does and he wins in ways that make it seem unfair.

by the way, NR, why do you have 'single mother' in your title.

yep, it is indeed the same citation we are talking about with the character known as digger being the focal point.

the hulk analogy was made earlier in the comic about possibly gaining a victory over him, parker's claims are about killing the hulk which i think are based on completely different battle strategies which aren't shown but peter is perhaps aware of but that is my own reasoning.


and oh, single mothers are real life superheroes, that's all...

 

[The Leaguer]

Not single fathers, though.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

yep, it is indeed the same citation we are talking about with the character known as digger being the focal point.

the hulk analogy was made earlier in the comic about possibly gaining a victory over him, parker's claims are about killing the hulk which i think are based on completely different battle strategies which aren't shown but peter is perhaps aware of but that is my own reasoning.


and oh, single mothers are real life superheroes, that's all...

I see what you are saying but i thought he made that comment on the last panel of the comic. In any case, I seriouly doubt Spiderman could kill the current Hulk or WWH will be very short

And I agree with you about single mothers but aren't you a single male