Why does Superman Always Beat The Marvel Heavy Hitters?

[necross20]

His pinky? Wouldn't that be a little anticlimactic? Not to mention a mite embarrassing for Lex Luthor to die that way. His death at S man's hands has to be at least a smidgen like a pub brawl.

Im all for explosions though

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It'd be a lot like a pub brawl. A really, really short pub brawl.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Short, yes...but still funny.

 

[lowly marvelite]

The country thing is an analogy. I could've easily used players in the NFL get bigger faster and stronger every year, but I thought I'd use an analogy I thought you geniuses could understand. Maybe I should be more direct: Although the limits and boundaries of superheros are determined by their creators/writers, there needs to be more consistency. For instance, don't you think Superman fans would be outraged to see Spider-Man whipping him in a Marvel/DC crossover when he clearly is less powerful? Or how about Daredevil beating Superman? Although I don't suppose that's a stretch since supposedly Batman can beat Superman. Now that is stupid. How can a guy with supposed superspeed even be touched by Batman? Perhaps that why Marvel comics are so much better than DC comics; they're at least somewhat believable and consistant rather than blown by the winds of writer bias and public opinions.

I wish I had the same ability to tune out the posts that say this so I can make this claim too.

And agreed about the Sentry defining just gross amounts of power.

And if Thor used the godblast on Superman, it wouldn't be the same result as Cap. The god blast would KILL Superman. Not just stun or hurt him.


I'd give you a rational, non juvenile argument, buuuuuut I'm getting the feeling you'd label it irrational and juvenile anyway, since pretty much the EXACT reason that Superman has won in every single crossover is due to popularity. Though I kind of like how you put in that country perspective thing when it really doesn't hold any form of bearing in anything. A fragment stray comment.

 

[32CAGE]

i just picture a horde of posts going something like this:

"superman is teh best. thas why hes SUPERman, dooch. he'll pwn anyone anytime."

i could do without that.

Some would say the same about Bats.

 

[32CAGE]

So, its a matter of popularity; American public perception? Pathetic. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, Britain, America. People, everyone eventually gets bested. Outdone. Outside of writers bias, strictly in the world of comic book superheros and in terms of their powers, how is Superman more powerful than the four I just mentioned??? Someone give me a rational, reasonable, non-juvenile argument...and please, spare me the Sentry is a Superman rip off argument. Thor, the Hulk and Surfer are in the same ball park as Superman. The Sentry is ridiculously powerful. Who else could go toe to toe with Galactus and stalemate him? And Mr. BrianWilly, The Surfer travels at multiple speeds of light and completely invulneralbe and ,unlike Superman, he has no weaknesses. None.

Galactus?

 

[GOODT!MES]

Who else could go toe to toe with Galactus and stalemate him?

Zeus, Agamotto, Oshtur, Hoggoth, Mephisto, Odin, Eternity, Infinity, Eon, most likely Epoch, and probably Dormammu. I'm just guessing, though.

 

[LibrarianThorne]

Excellent post. My thoughts exactly. That's the reason I always hated the death of SUperman. Supes wouldn't have been stupid enough to try and out punch a brute. He would've tried to out think him.

You did read the Death of Superman, right? He did try outthinking Doomsday, but it didn't work as while Superman tried to come up with something, Doomsday would kill, say, half of a town or so.

and Superman did go at the full range of his abilities, though he didn't really cut loose on Doomsday until the very end of the fight. Before then, he'd used flight (getting him away fromt he small town in Ohio where Mitch lived), full force heat vision (in conjunction with the rest of Justice League America), super speed, and other abilities against Doomsday. The problem was that Doomsday kept getting more and more powerful, and Superman could never take the time necessary to deal with him earlier in the battle because Superman was busy, you know, saving people.

That's the thing that gets me with the Death of Superman, when people talk about it. Everyone just says Superman went toe to toe with Doomsday, when that's not all that happened. Throughout the entire fight, Superman is saving people, and it's not until he's already beaten bloody, with poison coursing through his veins, that he focuses all of his power against battling Doomsday. Superman was staying true to his character and fighting to save people right up until the end, when he was forced to come to the conclusion that the only way to stop Doomsday was to kill him.

 

[Son_of_W]

The country thing is an analogy. I could've easily used players in the NFL get bigger faster and stronger every year, but I thought I'd use an analogy I thought you geniuses could understand. Maybe I should be more direct: Although the limits and boundaries of superheros are determined by their creators/writers, there needs to be more consistency. For instance, don't you think Superman fans would be outraged to see Spider-Man whipping him in a Marvel/DC crossover when he clearly is less powerful? Or how about Daredevil beating Superman? Although I don't suppose that's a stretch since supposedly Batman can beat Superman. Now that is stupid. How can a guy with supposed superspeed even be touched by Batman? Perhaps that why Marvel comics are so much better than DC comics; they're at least somewhat believable and consistant rather than blown by the winds of writer bias and public opinions.

What...the...hell? Do you think people in this place are gonna' like you if every time you speak, the first thing you do is insult them? I'd also like to point out "Genius" that full grown men rarely get bigger as time goes on, and that several of these men will reach a peak in strength and speed before slipping back down very quickly.

You are right, Spiderman and Daredevil outmatching Supes in anyway, unless by fluke (Like Spidey picking up a peice of kryptonite to show his class and the fighting Supes), is completely ridiculous. What this has to do with this thread, which you started, is beyond me. Neither DD or SM are, by any stretch of the imagination, "Heavy Hitters."

Also, though it's been pointed out a billion times already, Superman beats Marvel's heavy hitter's like it's half ass because he can. I said it. Superman is as strong, likey stronger then Thor and Hulk put together (he can push planet's around, more then Thor or Hulk), he has more abilities then almost any singular non-cosmic and he's virtuous and determined as hell. He's about as allowed to lose as God is allowed to be evil. If Supes wasn't as dumb as a rock, maybe there would never be an issue in the world Supes couldn't solve.

Which brings me to the issue that Batman could likely beat anyone he wanted to with preptime (at least in DC). Batman, easily the most intelligent fighter/detective on the planet, has intimate knowledge of practically everyone in DCU. Why WOULDN'T Bat's woop anyone in DC? Including Supes, if Supes is coming at near light speed to bat's, Bat's throws a green ring in Supes mouth, and Supes would die. Green Lantern doesn't ahve a weakness to yellow anymore, but he's limited to his human weaknesses and would thus be easily incapacitated, Just like WW and many others. There are very few people I can't see Batman beating in DC. In a Marvel universe setting, Bat's get's kicked around because he's sudden;y ina world where he knows nothing about anyone.

 

[blksuperman2]

You did read the Death of Superman, right? He did try outthinking Doomsday, but it didn't work as while Superman tried to come up with something, Doomsday would kill, say, half of a town or so.

and Superman did go at the full range of his abilities, though he didn't really cut loose on Doomsday until the very end of the fight. Before then, he'd used flight (getting him away fromt he small town in Ohio where Mitch lived), full force heat vision (in conjunction with the rest of Justice League America), super speed, and other abilities against Doomsday. The problem was that Doomsday kept getting more and more powerful, and Superman could never take the time necessary to deal with him earlier in the battle because Superman was busy, you know, saving people.

That's the thing that gets me with the Death of Superman, when people talk about it. Everyone just says Superman went toe to toe with Doomsday, when that's not all that happened. Throughout the entire fight, Superman is saving people, and it's not until he's already beaten bloody, with poison coursing through his veins, that he focuses all of his power against battling Doomsday. Superman was staying true to his character and fighting to save people right up until the end, when he was forced to come to the conclusion that the only way to stop Doomsday was to kill him.

Um......yeah. While your agruement is true in the beginning. I was talking about the 5-7 pages of panel after panel of stupid punching. You mean to tell me that Supes couldn't have just grabbed Doomsday and flown him to I don't know "the source wall" and imprisoned him there. Going toe to toe w/ a brute is stupid and a sign of poor writing.

 

[blud_knight]

supes is just cooler.

 

[LibrarianThorne]

Um......yeah. While your agruement is true in the beginning. I was talking about the 5-7 pages of panel after panel of stupid punching. You mean to tell me that Supes couldn't have just grabbed Doomsday and flown him to I don't know "the source wall" and imprisoned him there. Going toe to toe w/ a brute is stupid and a sign of poor writing.

No, it's a sign of his power level. Death of Supes is circa 1993, only 7 years after the big Man of Steel relaunch. In that relaunch, Superman (while still very powerful, don't get me wrong) was nowhere near as powerful as he is now, or as powerful as he was during the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Simply put, at that time, Superman couldn't have broken lightspeed or sped around the universe to meet up with God. What you see in the Death of Superman is the power level of Superman after the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Now, after the Death of Superman, you begin to see a very quick escalation of power for the Man of Steel. He recieved a powerup in the Return of Superman arc, in the two arcs following that, a major powerup after the Final Night event, and a powerup after the Blue Superman era.

The Superman in the Death of Superman could not sneeze out a galaxy or juggle planets. He could knock out some small asteroids, maybe, but moving a planet, or a moon, or any large astrological body was simply out of his league.

 

[Son_of_W]

No, it's a sign of his power level. Death of Supes is circa 1993, only 7 years after the big Man of Steel relaunch. In that relaunch, Superman (while still very powerful, don't get me wrong) was nowhere near as powerful as he is now, or as powerful as he was during the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Simply put, at that time, Superman couldn't have broken lightspeed or sped around the universe to meet up with God. What you see in the Death of Superman is the power level of Superman after the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Now, after the Death of Superman, you begin to see a very quick escalation of power for the Man of Steel. He recieved a powerup in the Return of Superman arc, in the two arcs following that, a major powerup after the Final Night event, and a powerup after the Blue Superman era.

The Superman in the Death of Superman could not sneeze out a galaxy or juggle planets. He could knock out some small asteroids, maybe, but moving a planet, or a moon, or any large astrological body was simply out of his league.

Well done.

 

[PhotoJones]

popping back in this thread every now again is like checking in on the class to make sure they're still playing nice.

 

[PemLam]

popping back in this thread every now again is like checking in on the class to make sure they're still playing nice.

...and finding that while most of them are, there are those "special" ones that are launching spitballs at everyone!

 

[ElectroFlare]

Um......yeah. While your agruement is true in the beginning. I was talking about the 5-7 pages of panel after panel of stupid punching. You mean to tell me that Supes couldn't have just grabbed Doomsday and flown him to I don't know "the source wall" and imprisoned him there. Going toe to toe w/ a brute is stupid and a sign of poor writing.

Didn't Superman grab Doomsday and try flying him into outerspace?

Twice?

And Doomsday got away both times?

Doomsday was Hulk-strong and Superman-fast. He wasn't just a brute. He was the Hulk with speed that rivaled Superman's.

 

[blksuperman2]

Didn't Superman grab Doomsday and try flying him into outerspace?

Twice?

And Doomsday got away both times?

Doomsday was Hulk-strong and Superman-fast. He wasn't just a brute. He was the Hulk with speed that rivaled Superman's.

I'm not going to try and debate comicbook physics, but Byrne era Supes could lift large objects due to him having some form of psionic powers. It doesn't make any sense that he couldn't grab Doomsday and fly him off somewhere. I didn't buy it 15 yrs ago and I still don't now.

 

[ElectroFlare]

I'm not going to try and debate comicbook physics, but Byrne era Supes could lift large objects due to him having some form of psionic powers. It doesn't make any sense that he couldn't grab Doomsday and fly him off somewhere. I didn't buy it 15 yrs ago and I still don't now.

He did grab Doomsday and fly him into the sky.

Doomsday kicked Superman in the stomache mid-flight and got free. Not just once, but twice. Did you think Doomsday would sit still while Supes flew? That's why it didn't work. Supes could definately grab him, as I stated before...he just couldn't hold onto someone so strong and so fast kicking him in the stomache.

 

[blksuperman2]

He did grab Doomsday and fly him into the sky.

Doomsday kicked Superman in the stomache mid-flight and got free. Not just once, but twice. Did you think Doomsday would sit still while Supes flew? That's why it didn't work. Supes could definately grab him, as I stated before...he just couldn't hold onto someone so strong and so fast kicking him in the stomache.

I'm not disagreeing that it didn't happen, I'm just saying it just doesn't make sense that it happen. Supes didn't have the speed that he has now but even back then he could reach space in less time then it woulda take for any opponent to react. Just because it was written that way doesn't justify it being logical.

But I concede sir, Obvious you found nothing wrong w/ the story and there's no need to keep going back and forth.

 

[LadyVader]

Name one Marvel character has a better spit curl than Superman.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Name one Marvel character has a better spit curl than Superman.

Who wants one?

 

[Badfish40oz]

Galactus beat Superman. Very easily. Thread title is wrong.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Pssst, lovely Miss G...careful saying that because you're liable to bring a few unnamed Hulk threaders in here to drag this one down the same pit some of the others are in!

Eh, I say it knowing the risk. Eventually, it will be so overargued, that it'll end up in the same realm as Goku/Superman, and people will just avoid it altogether.

The problem with the godblast is time. Thor would never be able to focus his energy and fire it, given Superman's speed. The only way I see Thor really beating Superman, in fact, is if he's still allowed to use the extreme super-speed we've only seen him use in about 2 or 3 comics from the Silver Age.

Of course, if Thor knew about Supes' weaknesses, he could easily have Mjolnir pump out some red solar energy. But that would break my personal rules of superhero fights, since he'd have to have intimate knowledge of how Superman's powers work beforehand.

Well, if we're assuming this is the idea where they both come from the same world,and this is Thor not in the Avengers, it would make sense.

If this were just a fight crossover between universes, I'd be flat out suprised if Thor figured out Superman had weaknesses at all.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

If this were just a fight crossover between universes, I'd be flat out suprised if Thor figured out Superman had weaknesses at all.

Exactly. Thats why I like Thor. Its not his style to use an opponents weakness against them unless he absolutely has to.

 

[ElectroFlare]

But I concede sir, Obvious you found nothing wrong w/ the story and there's no need to keep going back and forth.

If that's not sarcasm, well said.

If it is, well...not well said.

Either way I won't continue the argument since we get each others' points.