The Dark Knight Rises Why I think Rises can top TDK

[Fudgie]

TDK is near perfection. Nolan has a hell of a job to top it.

Sometimes people needed to be reminded that Batman was actually in TDK.

Those people must have take a lot of bathroom breaks watching it then.

 

[cobrastatus]

Sometimes people needed to be reminded that Batman was actually in TDK.

Yes but It's easy to understand why though

 

[Fudgie]

Yes but It's easy to understand why though

It's really not. He was a bigger character than Joker. It took two boring under used villains in Begins to make him the "star".

 

[cobrastatus]

Gotta admit though the joker onscreen presence stole the show and pretty much sold that movie

 

[Fudgie]

That would explain why Begins didn't rock the box office.

 

[Mysteryman]

Bruce Wayne was the star of Begins .
It was his story.
TDK was the Jokers story .

 

[DarthAlani]

That would explain why Begins didn't rock the box office.

The ****** marketing campaign and the stigma of Batman & Robin contributed to that.

 

[The Joker]

Bruce Wayne was the star of Begins .
It was his story.
TDK was the Jokers story .

Explain how it was the Joker's story please. He had no character arc. No back story. He was an absolute that had about 20 minutes screen time popping up at random points and wreaking havoc. The only attitude change he under goes is towards Batman when he goes from wanting to kill him to loving the challenge he presents him.

Nolan himself equated Joker to the shark in Jaws.

“He’s like the shark in Jaws,” Nolan explains. “The Joker cuts through the film, he’s incredibly important, but he’s not a guy with a backstory. He’s a wild card.”

http://www.slashfilm.com/quote-nolan-compares-tdks-joker-to-the-shark-in-jaws/

Joker wasn't even featured in the final showdown scene with Batman, Dent, and Gordon. You ever hear of a character being left out of the big final scene of their own story?

TDK is and always was Batman and Dent's story. They are the two drivers of the movie.

 

[KalMart]

Explain how it was the Joker's story please. He had no character arc. No back story. He was an absolute that had about 20 minutes screen time popping up at random points and wreaking havoc. The only attitude change he under goes is towards Batman when he goes from wanting to kill him to loving the challenge he presents him.

Nolan himself equated Joker to the shark in Jaws.



http://www.slashfilm.com/quote-nolan-compares-tdks-joker-to-the-shark-in-jaws/

Joker wasn't even featured in the final showdown scene with Batman, Dent, and Gordon. You ever hear of a character being left out of the big final scene of their own story?

TDK is and always was Batman and Dent's story. They are the two drivers of the movie.

Now take the shark out of Jaws.....and what do you have?

 

[The Joker]

Now take the shark out of Jaws.....and what do you have?

Take Ra's out of Batman Begins and what do you have?

 

[KalMart]

Take Ra's out of Batman Begins and what do you have?

You could still have a story about a kid whose parents get killed, and he seeks to kill the guy who did it, but then doesn't, and you could still adapt around the mob and Scarecrow.

Meanwhile, the three characters in Jaws would never have met.

 

[batman1115]

TDK is near perfection. Nolan has a hell of a job to top it.

as much as i love TDK, it can easily be topped. the joker batman fight was a bit anticlimatic and the boat thing was sorta weak as there were no characters that we know or liked on either boat. so that removed me from the moment. and batman voice/dialogue was terrible at the end. that aside, Nolan can do what most have failed to do and that is top the 2nd film. i think without inception, TDKR wouldn't have the weight and quailty it seems to have.

 

[Mysteryman]

The Batmans finals choice was motivated by a deep desire to to ensure that The Joker didnt win .
So , even offscreen , The Joker dominated the film right to the end .

 

[The Joker]

You could still have a story about a kid whose parents get killed, and he seeks to kill the guy who did it, but then doesn't, and....

Meanwhile, the three characters in Jaws woudl never have met.

Take Joker out and you would have Batman and Gordon and Dent joining forces to nab Lau and take out Maroni and the rest of the mob and....

See how easy it is?

 

[KalMart]

Take Joker out and you would have Batman and Gordon and Dent joining forces to nab Lau and take out the mob and....

See how easy it is?

I see how easy you are to goad, yes.


But in all seriousness, TDK was really dominated by the presence of the Joker. Of course the story and world is about Batman, but Joker's weight does feel the heaviest.

 

[Victarion]

Explain how it was the Joker's story please. He had no character arc. No back story. He was an absolute that had about 20 minutes screen time popping up at random points and wreaking havoc. The only attitude change he under goes is towards Batman when he goes from wanting to kill him to loving the challenge he presents him.

Nolan himself equated Joker to the shark in Jaws.



http://www.slashfilm.com/quote-nolan-compares-tdks-joker-to-the-shark-in-jaws/

Joker wasn't even featured in the final showdown scene with Batman, Dent, and Gordon. You ever hear of a character being left out of the big final scene of their own story?

TDK is and always was Batman and Dent's story. They are the two drivers of the movie.

The whole movie, in my mind, was about Bruce Wayne trying to find a way out. His line to Gordon, "One man or the entire mob," indicated as much. From there, his attempt to keep Harvey from committing murder in the alleyway, is meant to maintain Harvey's image as a White Knight. Harvey was meant to be his way out of the Batman persona.

True to his word, the Joker took that plan, and turned it in on itself.

 

[The Joker]

The Batmans finals choice was motivated by a deep desire to to ensure that The Joker didnt win .
So , even offscreen , The Joker dominated the film right to the end .

Name one Batman movie where the big final scene was not influenced by the villain's actions. Then you have a point.

Batman's choice was motivated to give Gotham the hope he never could. "I'm what ever Gotham needs me to be". Yes, it was to stop Joker from winning, which is the motive of every hero in every superhero movie lol. Stopping the villain from winning.

You speak like TDK was the first to do that.

 

[KalMart]

The whole movie, in my mind, was about Bruce Wayne trying to find a way out. His line to Gordon, "One man or the entire mob," indicated as much. From there, his attempt to keep Harvey from committing murder in the alleyway, is meant to maintain Harvey's image as a White Knight. Harvey was meant to be his way out of the Batman persona.

True to his word, the Joker took that plan, and turned it in on itself.

If anything, it's a testament to just how effective the villain is...he changes that world.


Aaaaaannnd....he's not mentioned in the next film.

Zing!

 

[Victarion]

If anything, it's a testament to just how effective the villain is...he changes that world.


Aaaaaannnd....he's not mentioned in the next film.

Zing!

Bruce being gone for 8 years seems reference enough. I won't argue that the kangaroo court would be the perfect place for Joker, though.

 

[KalMart]

Bruce being gone for 8 years seems reference enough. I won't argue that the kangaroo court would be the perfect place for Joker, though.

Sorry, for who....?

 

[The Joker]

I see how easy you are to goad, yes.

I wasn't provoked. I responded as equally amicably as you have,

Some friendly advice though; If you are admittedly trying to provoke me for what ever reason you might want to knock that on the head, Kal. Deliberate provocation of another poster is grounds for probation.

C. Lee patrols these threads vigilantly.

But in all seriousness, TDK was really dominated by the presence of the Joker. Of course the story and world is about Batman, but Joker's weight does feel the heaviest.

That's because he was a larger than life presence, like Hannibal Lecter in The Silence of Lambs. Lecter spends about 20 minutes on screen in that, most of it with him just sitting in a cell talking to Jodie Foster, yet that movie is more associated with Hannibal than Clarice or Buffalo Bill, and made Lecter a cinematic classic villain and scooped Hopkins an Oscar, too.

The whole movie, in my mind, was about Bruce Wayne trying to find a way out. His line to Gordon, "One man or the entire mob," indicated as much. From there, his attempt to keep Harvey from committing murder in the alleyway, is meant to maintain Harvey's image as a White Knight. Harvey was meant to be his way out of the Batman persona.

True to his word, the Joker took that plan, and turned it in on itself.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[KalMart]

I wasn't provoked. I responded as equally amicably as you have,

No, not at all.

Some friendly advice though; If you are admittedly trying to provoke me for what ever reason you might want to knock that on the head, Kal. Deliberate provocation of another poster is grounds for probation.

C. Lee patrols these threads vigilantly.

Return advice....grow a thicker skin.


IF that were the case, of course....which it ain't.

That's because he was a larger than life presence, like Hannibal Lecter in The Silence of Lambs. Lecter spends about 20 minutes on screen in that, most of it with him just sitting in a cell talking to Jodie Foster, yet that movie is more associated with Hannibal than Clarice or Buffalo Bill, and made Lecter a cinematic classic villain and scooped Hopkins an Oscar, too.

I think we all feel that way, yes. Good think that was how he was written.

 

[The Joker]

No, not at all.

Good. Glad you agree.

Return advice....grow a thicker skin.

But I thought you just agreed with me. Don't tell me that was more sarcastic provocation

IF that were the case, of course....which it ain't.

No, not at all

I think we all feel that way, yes. Good think that was how he was written.

That's how the Joker is always written.

 

[KalMart]

Good. Glad you agree.



But I thought you just agreed with me. Don't tell me that was more sarcastic provocation

I thought you thought so to.

That's how the Joker is always written.

I agree...Joker was always larger than life, but that was never in question.









And now he's no longer mentioned...funny how that works.



What if Jaws 2......didn't have a shark........?

 

[Fudgie]

The ****** marketing campaign and the stigma of Batman & Robin contributed to that.

There is loads of CBM flicks that had no good marketing campaigns that made a ton of money. Raimi's Spider-Man movies for starters.

Batman and Robin was gone and done 8 years ago. 2005 was in the height of the comic book movie craze. Batman Begins had no excuse not to make more money than it did. It didn't even have any stiff competition when it was released.