The Dark Knight Rises Why I think Rises can top TDK

[Conebone69]

I hear a lot of people saying Nolan cant top TDK, "It was just too great of a movie. Would be surprising if he can make a better movie" People have said. I think Nolan can easily make this film the best out of the series.

I think this movie has great potential, of course its going to be good but im talking nolan really out doing himself. The story sounds like it could really be promising, with the talks about rises coming full circle and it connecting with begins. Nolan looks like he really created an interesting character with Bane, I have a feeling he could end up as one of the most iconic villains in todays comic book films.

 

[fire_rising]

I hear a lot of people saying Nolan cant top TDK, "It was just too great of a movie. Would be surprising if he can make a better movie" People have said. I think Nolan can easily make this film the best out of the series.

I think this movie has great potential, of course its going to be good but im talking nolan really out doing himself. The story sounds like it could really be promising, with the talks about rises coming full circle and it connecting with begins. Nolan looks like he really created an interesting character with Bane, I have a feeling he could end up as one of the most iconic villains in todays comic book films.

I agree. The one thing that will make this movie great is its return to its main emphasis: Bruce Wayne.

But whenever people say that TDK is the best Batman movie and nothing can top it, or that TDKR will be better than TDK, I always imagine a group of toddlers throwing poop at each other. Because really, that's what this argument is. It's all relative.

Not saying your points are meaningless, they're 100 percent valid, but I think we'll all get a better experience seeing TDKR if we treat it as its own film.

 

[KneelBeforeZod]

I think Bane will rival the Joker as villain. I don't know that it is possible for him to surpass the Joker.

The real reason I think this may have more real impact than TDK, and maybe even BB, is that this is the first time in the trilogy that Bruce Wayne has ever been in real peril. Both Batman Begins and Dark Knight had the possibility of Bruce failing to stop a threat ... but he was never in any physical danger. His failure would impact Gotham, Rachel, Dent, other people. He'd get shot at, beat up, scarred ... but never catastrophically injured. He would always survive to fight another day.

Bane is a very physical threat -- more physical than Ras, Scarecrow, Dent, and Joker combined. Bruce Wayne could take all four of those guys out without a problem. He could probably take all four at the same time. He can't take Bane. Bane represents a threat, not just to Gotham, but to the existence of the Batman. I think that could lead to the battle being much more charged and edge-of-your-seat.

It is clear after the events of BB and TDK that, to attack Gotham, you have to take out Batman. He is the protector. The rest of the villains haven't been able to come close to taking Batman down. This is the first time the Batman has been overmatched and out-of-his-league.

KBZ

 

[ThePhantasm]

I hear a lot of people saying Nolan cant top TDK, "It was just too great of a movie. Would be surprising if he can make a better movie" People have said. I think Nolan can easily make this film the best out of the series.

I think this movie has great potential, of course its going to be good but im talking nolan really out doing himself. The story sounds like it could really be promising, with the talks about rises coming full circle and it connecting with begins. Nolan looks like he really created an interesting character with Bane, I have a feeling he could end up as one of the most iconic villains in todays comic book films.

Ok, but what's the reason "why [you] think Rises can top TDK"? You didn't give an argument, you just basically said "This looks good and the story sounds promising so yeah!!" What about the story sounds like an improvement over TDK? You aren't delivering on the thread title here man!

 

[Blue Sugar]

Deja vu...

 

[BatLobster]

I think TDKR has a chance to top TDK simply because...who doesn't love a good ending? This series obviously has a lot of people very invested in the story, so as long as they give it that great ending it deserves, it should be an extremely satisfying experience.

IMO third movies in trilogies should be the best because it's where the emotional stakes can be at their highest. It's just that it hasn't happened that often for one reason or another.

Perfect example of one that succeeded though- Toy Story 3. It easily had the highest emotional stakes of all three movies. I mean I was sitting there actually wondering if they were all going to meet their demise at the end. It took you further to the edge than you thought it could, whisked you back to safety, but then hit you with a bittersweet denouement to the whole thing.

That's my idea of how you close out a trilogy the right way.

ROTJ actually did have some great emotional stakes and a great revelatory moment with Luke and Vader at the end. I think that's why people can still tend to forgive it being an inferior film than the first two. I mean sure, most of us can't stand the Ewoks, but at least the story is wrapped up properly and it hits the crucial emotional beats correctly.

Now imagine a film that does all of that, but in a way that is tonally consistent with the first two movies and with edge of your seat adrenaline/fear for the main character the whole way through...

 

[intothevoid]

Of course TDKR can top TDK.

I actually think Begins is better than TDK - Begins is 9.5/10 for me. TDK perhaps 9.3 or 9.4.
Yes, Ledger's Joker was an unbelievably great villain - but Begins wins for me of the singular focus of the story on the journey of Bruce Wayne.

TDK suffers to some degree from a cramming of ideas.

I think TDKR can do a 10/10 if it returns to the focus on Wayne/Batman (which it obviously will), it can certainly top not only TDK but also Begins for me.

 

[TDK010]

^ Totally agree intothevoid. That's exactly how I feel about the movies thus far. Another element that gives this film great potential is that fact that it is the final act, all bets are off and no one is safe. Anyone can be killed off and that gives the story an extra edge in terms of potential emotional weight.

 

[DKDetective]

Did this really need its own thread? Moreover, OP, maybe choose a less self-centered thread title next time? Eg. "Can/Will TDKR Surpass TDK?" Because frankly, these boards aren't just about one person's opinion.

My answer would be yes. As much as I love The Dark Knight, it is, like Batman Begins, a flawed and uneven film. Overall, Nolan had demonstrated that he is becoming a more polished filmmaker with each film he makes. As such, all things point to TDKR being a better film than TDK.

 

[joker1524]

i still cant understand when ppl say that tdk wasnt focused on bruce...imo the impact in tdk not only effected bruce but other characters as well...i actually ended up caring for not only bruce but characters such as dent and gordon as well and the best thing about it was that unlike begins...it actually a real antagonist who was an actual real threat for the whole film....imo tdk shows what nolan can do with multiple characters n he also shows that he can create a good story and handle alot of characters very well...for that reason alone i love tdk...and yes im also a bb fan but i cant stand when ppl say that tdk doesnt have the same emotion as BB...i was more emotionally involved in tdk then almost any movie ive seen

 

[KneelBeforeZod]

Psychologically and by character-arc, TDK was a Harvey Dent story. Begins was a Bruce Wayne story. Batman remained the immovable object he became by the end of Begins, and Joker remained the unstoppable force he was throughout the movie.

Only psychological change with those two was that Batman recognized the problem of escalation, that there were villains he didn't understand, and that sometimes compromises have to be made to take down such men (including compromising his reputation, and some civil liberties). Bruce Wayne evolved some ... but not nearly as much as he did in BB, and not nearly as much as Dent. Joker discovered a ying to his yang, and that Batman is too fun to kill. The story of their fight was epic. But, the real character arc and psychological depth was with Harvey Dent.

Not so for Batman Begins. Bruce Wayne was a very different man at the beginning and end of BB. It was the story of him becoming the immovable object that could oppose a truly unstoppable force.

TDKR will be the story of the immovable object adapting to being overpowered, overwhelmed ... and moved.

KBZ

 

[intothevoid]

Psychologically and by character-arc, TDK was a Harvey Dent story. Begins was a Bruce Wayne story. Batman remained the immovable object he became by the end of Begins, and Joker remained the unstoppable force he was throughout the movie.

Only psychological change with those two was that Batman recognized the problem of escalation, that there were villains he didn't understand, and that sometimes compromises have to be made to take down such men (including compromising his reputation, and some civil liberties). Bruce Wayne evolved some ... but not nearly as much as he did in BB, and not nearly as much as Dent. Joker discovered a ying to his yang, and that Batman is too fun to kill. The story of their fight was epic. But, the real character arc and psychological depth was with Harvey Dent.

Not so for Batman Begins. Bruce Wayne was a very different man at the beginning and end of BB. It was the story of him becoming the immovable object that could oppose a truly unstoppable force.

TDKR will be the story of the immovable object adapting to being overpowered, overwhelmed ... and moved.

KBZ

Exactly. Great post.

TDK's central character is Harvey Dent without a doubt. Batman and Joker are the two sides of his coin if you will.

 

[\S/]

Did this really need its own thread? Moreover, OP, maybe choose a less self-centered thread title next time? Eg. "Can/Will TDKR Surpass TDK?" Because frankly, these boards aren't just about one person's opinion.

Does the "DK" in your username stand for "Dick?" NO way you needed to be this rude over the naming of a thread.

 

[Nevincer]

i still cant understand when ppl say that tdk wasnt focused on bruce...imo the impact in tdk not only effected bruce but other characters as well...i actually ended up caring for not only bruce but characters such as dent and gordon as well and the best thing about it was that unlike begins...it actually a real antagonist who was an actual real threat for the whole film....imo tdk shows what nolan can do with multiple characters n he also shows that he can create a good story and handle alot of characters very well...for that reason alone i love tdk...and yes im also a bb fan but i cant stand when ppl say that tdk doesnt have the same emotion as BB...i was more emotionally involved in tdk then almost any movie ive seen

You felt the effects on Bruce but the sense of "journey" was gone. It was just Bruce reacting, along with a lot of stoicness and brooding whilst totally immersed in his mission. It's what I imagine a seasoned Batman would be like, but then it also made him feel cold and unrelatable juxtaposed to TDK's other characters imo. I just couldn't feel invested in a "protagonist" like that after BB did such a good job of it, so I'm very pleased that Rises is having him make a comeback in that way.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I believe TDKR easily has the chance to top TDK.

Two words: Story and Scale.

 

[Mysteryman]

I just want a quality film.
TDKR doesnt have to top ANY film IMO.

 

[bullets]

I don't Nolan would bother if her couldn't surpass his previous efforts. He went much bigger this time and in terms of scale and story . It's just a matter of performances and they all look promising.

 

[superherofan777]

I believe TDKR easily has the chance to top TDK.

Two words: Story and Scale.

Indeed. This film just feels massive. And the greatest thing about it, is you truly feel like you`ve seen nothing yet. t:

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I thought that Inception and The Prestige were already better films that the Batman films so yeah I think that it could be better than the last film.

 

[Rocketman]

TDK's central character is Harvey Dent without a doubt. Batman and Joker are the two sides of his coin if you will.

I'd agree, and I'd go a step further and say that TDK was a story about two relationships:

- Jim Gordon and Harvey Dent
- Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes

 

[weezerspider]

Psychologically and by character-arc, TDK was a Harvey Dent story. Begins was a Bruce Wayne story. Batman remained the immovable object he became by the end of Begins, and Joker remained the unstoppable force he was throughout the movie.

Only psychological change with those two was that Batman recognized the problem of escalation, that there were villains he didn't understand, and that sometimes compromises have to be made to take down such men (including compromising his reputation, and some civil liberties). Bruce Wayne evolved some ... but not nearly as much as he did in BB, and not nearly as much as Dent. Joker discovered a ying to his yang, and that Batman is too fun to kill. The story of their fight was epic. But, the real character arc and psychological depth was with Harvey Dent.

Not so for Batman Begins. Bruce Wayne was a very different man at the beginning and end of BB. It was the story of him becoming the immovable object that could oppose a truly unstoppable force.

TDKR will be the story of the immovable object adapting to being overpowered, overwhelmed ... and moved.

KBZ

Yeah, but you are missing the whole point of Dent's character. His character is simply there as a parallel to Bruce. Both Dent and Batman are fighting the same cause with different means. Bruce believes Dent's mean is the better mean, without a mask, and in time, Dent will be able to be Gotham's White Knight and Batman can be no more.

Just as they both have the same cause to fight for, they both have the same girl to fight for and the same villain to fight against. They both lose Rachel. Here, we see that Batman is the true hero, not Dent. Dent collapses after Rachel's death and "becomes the Villain". Meanwhile, Batman stays firm and defeats the Joker, further proving his way of fighting crime is the only way to fight this escalation type of criminal.

However, He knows the public can not accept his form of crime fighting, so he takes on Dent's crimes and allows Dent to be seen as the hero and as we now know, it works for 8 years. Dent's character is simply a parallel to Bruce, further showing the audience Bruce. After Rachel dies is when they branch off and we find out who the true hero of Gotham is.

 

[Jheri Curl]

While I suspect the film will be better than TDK, due to an expanded scope and greater consistency in the quality (TDK was always stronger when the Joker was onscreen), I doubt very much that any performance in it will be as impressive as Ledger's. From what I can garner from the brief snippets available to us, Hardy's take on Bane seems less psychologically-driven than Ledger's Joker, and rather more successful as a physical encapsulation. I think it'll still impress, but be more akin to Cillian or Eckhart's work.

 

[KalMart]

I'd agree, and I'd go a step further and say that TDK was a story about two relationships:

- Jim Gordon and Harvey Dent
- Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes

Sometimes people needed to be reminded that Batman was actually in TDK.

 

[The Joker]

i still cant understand when ppl say that tdk wasnt focused on bruce...imo the impact in tdk not only effected bruce but other characters as well...i actually ended up caring for not only bruce but characters such as dent and gordon as well and the best thing about it was that unlike begins...it actually a real antagonist who was an actual real threat for the whole film....imo tdk shows what nolan can do with multiple characters n he also shows that he can create a good story and handle alot of characters very well...for that reason alone i love tdk...and yes im also a bb fan but i cant stand when ppl say that tdk doesnt have the same emotion as BB...i was more emotionally involved in tdk then almost any movie ive seen

 

[Mysteryman]

Didnt it take almost 10 minutes for Batman to show up in TDK ?