The Dark Knight Rises Why I think Rises will be better than TDK

[DoomsdayApex]

I hope they're hiding their best dialogue, because from what's been shown in the prologue, trailers, and some rumored or reported scenes, it's been disappointing me thus far.

The music so far I think is better; didn't care for TDK's soundtrack much. As time has gone by since I started following the filming of the production in May , it's been mostly positive but it's slumped a bit to the present.

How has it slumped?

The trailer and prologue have had overwhelmingly positive feedback from fans, film critics, and fellow film-makers.

If any franchise/film has slumped as of late, it's been Marvel's The Avengers. Disney's marketing department has done a below average job in promoting the film.

 

[DACrowe]

Batman making a comeback won't provide a strong backbone for the story? How can that not be powerful in some way or another?

And Bane is a much different threat to Batman. He may not be "charismatic", but he's terrifying since he actually does pose a threat. I'm sure the GA will come to understand that.

I don't think it will be as clean. The tragedy of Harvey Dent was a very strong and clear through line that did not take the hero out of the story. TDKR will take Batman out of commission for part of the film and I wonder if it will be as smooth. Plus a fall usually gains more critical attention than a comeback story.

 

[DACrowe]

Return of the Jedi was also really mediocre

To fanboys on the Internet. Most people will say the first two were better, but most would not call it mediocre and it is widely considered a good movie. Every franchise has its weak link. BB is likely going to be this trilogy's one when it is complete.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

How has it slumped?

The trailer and prologue have had overwhelmingly positive feedback from fans, film critics, and fellow film-makers.

If any franchise/film has slumped as of late, it's been Marvel's The Avengers. Disney's marketing department has done a below average job in promoting the film.

The prologue is nice to look at, well-done action, but I found the writing quite horrible and some of the acting is questionable at best. One of the criticisms of Nolan in the past has been action sequences and how they were shot, so it looks like he has something to prove in TDKR. But it's not what made me a fan of his collaborations with his brother in the first place. I hope the final sound mix for the film with Bane's voice is clear.

The teaser trailer from last summer, at least the new material in it, had the "now this evil rises" line which I thought was very hokey but fits right in with the "the fire rises" and "when Gotham is ashes...you have my permission to die." It makes me cringe when "NO MORE DEAD COPS!"-caliber dialogue is coming out of the mouths of the main cast. That's why I hope there's better writing in the rest of the movie but I'm a little concerned. Some of those lines are like what a 12 year old boy would come up with. This might be acceptable in the comics but I've come to expect better from the main cast in BB and TDK.

In the trailer last month, I thought Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle had the best piece of dialogue delivered I've heard to the present. I went over what I liked and didn't like about the trailer in a post a while back in the General TDKR thread so I don't want to go over it all again.

I will say the idea of Bruce Wayne/Batman being in prison for an extensive period of time doesn't really appeal to me if that is what happens.

The things that make me excited for TDKR are pretty much things the majority of forum dwellers don't care much about. As long as explosions happen, Batman gets beat by Bane, they'll leave the theater happy.

I don't care about the Avengers at all. I'm really not much of a fan of comic book movies in general but every once in a great while there's a good or great one.

 

[Lord]

To fanboys on the Internet. Most people will say the first two were better, but most would not call it mediocre and it is widely considered a good movie. Every franchise has its weak link. BB is likely going to be this trilogy's one when it is complete.

It's just an example, to most general audience the prequel trilogy movies and Indiana Jones 4 are ok movies, i just use Return of the Jedi as an example when fans point out Episode III's flaws and try to use that to say it's a bad movie.

Nobody mentioned, just wanted you to know t:

The Godfather III wasn't bad either, in fact it was on the level o BB as a movie, the problem is, that such a conclusion to the other 2 classics made it seem very bad.

And to those that say Lord of the rings is overrated, it's because the film is for those that like the genre, and you guys can't deny that it was a very well made story, most scenes were incredible, even when they were only riding a horse

[YT]Om1OlQEMjz8[/YT]

 

[BestGirl]

The Riddler would have been underwhelming for the finale.

I still do not comprehend why fans wanted the Riddler for the final film, and yet, at the same time, [they] wanted an explosive ending to the trilogy. Edward doesn't possess that style or match-up for Batman.

Quite a few people who wanted the Riddler said they wanted a smaller scale, more personal movie to tie up the trilogy. That would've been a tremendous letdown after TDK. Me, I could never wrap my head around how the Riddler could've worked as a villain in the Noalnverse.

I think Riddler could have been interesting. I see an idea floating around where he was a kinda Federal Agent brought in to investigate everything that happened in TDK and becomes more and more obsessed with Batman whilst starting to become suspicious of Gordon. That could have been cool. But there would need to be another villain I think.

Absolutely. The Riddler is no kind of physical threat to Batman so there couldn't have been any sort of final fight between them. Batman's main villains need to bring a certain level of brains and brawn to the table, IMO.

He could have uncovered the truth about Harvey Dent. Or even the truth about Batman and who he is.

I'd imagine a film with Riddler being a detective cat and mouse game. Riddler having the resources of the police and government against Batman. Batman having to rely on his detective skills (which we haven't really seen yet) to figure out who the Riddler is before the Riddler finds out who Batman is.

Ehhh i dunno. I think Riddler could have worked.

If the Riddler was an FBI agent how could Batman fail to know who he was?

My idea if Riddler was the lead villain:

Centred around a killer mystery, ala Long Halloween and Dark Victory. A killer is taking out different bad cops, leaving pinned riddles and clues on them. The thing is, the clues and riddles are written on Harvey Dent's old case files about the mob. It is bizarre for somebody appearing to be Two Face doing these crimes. In reality, the whole things just a mind game set up by the Riddler, but it takes the film a while to get to that revelation.

That would be a great letdown for the audience. The Riddler would have to be heavily advertised in the film's marketing ahead of time so it would be a foregone conclusion that he was involved in these murders somehow.

 

[Ken-Kaniff]

I think TDKR CAN beat TDK. TDK was a very good movie, but the only thing that was AMAZING was its villain and that made the whole movie a bit overrated! Villain-wise, Rises won't beat TDK. But that's the only category where it has no chance... otherwise it can turn out a better movie.

 

[The Morningstar]

If the Riddler was an FBI agent how could Batman fail to know who he was?

Well he isn't actually known as the Riddler. He is just FBI Agent Nashton. But as he becomes more obsessed with Batman he develops his own alternate persona, the Riddler.

 

[Rocketman]

I still feel like, for THIS story, Bane and Catwoman were the only way to go.

In the Reboot down the road, give me Riddler, by all means.

 

[Blue Sugar]

There is nothing more I hate than "TDK was all about Joker and nothing else" type of comments.

Well of course there's stuff I hate more but you get my point.

 

[KnightInBlack]

All I know is it'll be an emotional rollercoaster. If Bruce starts off at a low point and goes even lower, losing everything and only left with his poor tortured soul, his rise will have a great emotional impact.

 

[munchie64]

Yeah, the film better live up to the title.

 

[Sharkboy]

To fanboys on the Internet. Most people will say the first two were better, but most would not call it mediocre and it is widely considered a good movie. Every franchise has its weak link. BB is likely going to be this trilogy's one when it is complete.

Unfairly so. Unlike ROTJ, Batman Begins was never considered a disappointment. It may be the weakest film in the trilogy, but it probably will never receive the amount of hate ROTJ get's because it doesn't follow a classic.

 

[Gianakin_]

I really really don't think "hate" is what comes to people's minds when hearing RotJ.

 

[munchie64]

Definitely not in the general audiences minds anyway.

 

[Micromind]

Will we see Hardy (Bane) without his mask in the movie ? We must ! (Maybe we will, in flash back scenes.)

 

[gvalladare]

Will we see Hardy (Bane) without his mask in the movie ? We must ! (Maybe we will, in flash back scenes.)

...it would be extremely painful...

 

[BatmanGoesToRio]

Of course TDKR will be better than TDK. I really like BB but TDK has one of the worst scripts ever.

 

[Sharkboy]

If not hate...then surely disapointment, or a great sense that it is an inferior film to it's predecessors. That is something that will never really be attached to BB by general audiences. In it's own right it's a fantastic film, and it leads to a superior film...not follows. It matters.

 

[sly]

It makes me cringe when "NO MORE DEAD COPS!"-caliber dialogue is coming out of the mouths of the main cast.

I never got the issue with that line in TDK. It was fine. I thought the only cringe worthy dialogue was the SWAT guy riding shotgun with Gordon ("That's NOT good."). I do agree with you that the line delivery from the CIA agent in the TDKR prologue wasn't the greatest... not sure if it was the dialogue or what.

 

[DKDetective]

If not hate...then surely disapointment, or a great sense that it is an inferior film to it's predecessors. That is something that will never really be attached to BB by general audiences. In it's own right it's a fantastic film, and it leads to a superior film...not follows. It matters.

Really, disappointment??? I think I'm going to have to cite Barney Stinson and suggest that there is a major age issue in that regard. Anyone who was a kid the first time they saw ROTJ loves it, even if it is uneven and flawed. Sure, the Ewok stuff and other missteps ruin some of the pacing, but the great dramatic moments in the film are easily on par with TESB. I mean when it comes to wrapping up Luke and Vader's story, the film is great and as I know, based on my friends and acquaintances, is well-regarded as a result. Once again, this might be a generation gap issue.

Actually, if I was going to compare Begins to any film in the SW original trilogy, it would to A New Hope. It suffers from more of the same issues - an uneven script that is saved by the strength of the primary cast, a largely inexperienced director trying a lot of the new things for the first time, etc.

 

[Greens]

I hate calling Batman Begins the weakest of the three, because it really isn't a film far below the level of TDK. It was a perfect introduction to Nolan's world. I loved it when I first saw it, including the exciting cliffhanger at the end. TDK raised the bar because it had more of an epic feel to it, and TDKR will continue on this.
Even with some posters, pictures, and two trailers we really don't know anything about this movie. I kind of like the mystique around this film, and it will be a great relief to finally see what happens Bruce and all the other characters.

When we were still waiting for TDK to come out, I focused more on the Joker than on The Dark Knight as a whole. This isn't necessarily bad or anything, but what sets Rises apart for me is that I am looking forward to this as a CHAPTER of the story. Of course I'm looking forward to Bane and Catwoman, but my main focus is not on them.

 

[The Morningstar]

I think pretty much everyone was looking forward to the Joker more than anything in the build up to TDK.

 

[DACrowe]

It's just an example, to most general audience the prequel trilogy movies and Indiana Jones 4 are ok movies, i just use Return of the Jedi as an example when fans point out Episode III's flaws and try to use that to say it's a bad movie.

Not a good comparison. Most people are very meh about IJ4 and dislike the prequels. There is genuine apathy, if not hate, for those films that were also treated with a very mixed critical reaction. ROTJ, more akin to Temple of Doom than KOTCS, was a disappointing follow-up to a classic, but still got extremely positive reviews and is well regarded by the mainstream as a classic, despite constant fanboy whining about ewoks. KOTCS will not be considered a classic.

The Godfather III wasn't bad either, in fact it was on the level o BB as a movie, the problem is, that such a conclusion to the other 2 classics made it seem very bad.

I think Part III would be considered an average crime drama if not for elements already in play from previous installments (Pacino, Talia Shire, Diane Keaton). But considering much of the crux of the movie revolves around Michael's daughter who is played so horribly by Sofia Coppola that it literally ruins the impact of the ending of the trilogy...it just is bad. Fans may complain about Katie Holmes, but the end of the protagonist's arc is not hinged on her acting. It's ultimately a "meh" movie that is even worse when it follows two of cinema's best.

Unfairly so. Unlike ROTJ, Batman Begins was never considered a disappointment. It may be the weakest film in the trilogy, but it probably will never receive the amount of hate ROTJ get's because it doesn't follow a classic.

ROTJ only receives Internet hate is my point. It's widely considered a classic even though it is a weak link. Temple of Doom is also considered a classic in the larger scope of the trilogy, even though most consider it to be the worst of the three and it received disappointment as its reaction when it came out after ROTLA. Even Spielberg puts that movie down. But, like ROTJ, most people who see it take it in with the other two films and love it. BB will likely have the same fate, though many will dissect it as inferior and unworth of the other two films....assuming TDKR is actually as strong as it looks.

 

[breyfogle_rules]

A super interesting piece on TDK's significance.

http://www.chud.com/79442/remake-vs-reboot-batman-vs-the-dark-knight/