Why the hate for Wolverine?

[The Batman]

yup. I noticed that, even with logan hogging screentime, the other male x-men werent too affected by it. Cyclops, however, was. Zak penn even admitted that the reason Cyke kept getting screwed is because of wolverine

 

[Jan Irisi]

Back to my opinions.
It doesn't matter if Cyclops' lack of presence in X2 was due to the writers or the actor. What matters is that he failed to stand out.

Fans of Cyclops may think that after being neglected in two movies, he was due for some screentime and that Wolverine had already had too much. But studios are about playing safe. They continue with the one that works and don't bother with the one who has yet to prove himself. Maybe if he'd won an Oscar for something else...

The bolded statement is it in a nutshell. While Marsden may be a good sturdy reliable actor, he just doesn't have "it", the quality that makes him grab your attention and not let it go. I've been saying this since the first film. This role doesn't call for a good sturdy reliable actor, it calls for that extra something which Marsden lacks. It's not a bad thing. Not a lot of actors have "it". Some only have it on certain occasions.

The role of Cyclops needed that something extra. It needed an actor who could, even under the visor, grab hold of you. Ian has it. When he is on screen your attention is on him. Hugh as Wolverine had it. Christopher Reeve as Superman had it too. Depp, Judi Dench, Maggie Smith...the list goes on. Heck, even John Wayne had "it". He wasn't even that proficient as an actor, but dammit, when he was on screen he commanded your attention. That's what the role of Cyclops needed. To command your attention, regardless of how much time he spent on screen. Marsden just didn't command much of anything. It's a shame.

 

[Celestial]

The decision to make Wolverine the lead was made before they even started casting. At that stage, it seems unlikely that Fox cared whether it was Wolverine or Cyclops, so it was probably Lauren Shuler Donner, Bryan Singer and the rest of the creative team.

For Wolverine, they were looking for a leading man - Bryan Singer was said to want Russell Crowe and even Mel Gibson was rumoured. Whereas the first pick for Cyclops dropped out because the role wasn't great and they cast Marsden. Marsden said his audition was putting on a pair of sunglasses and Singer checking that he looked ok (I think this was on the X2 webcast).

I like Marsden but compared to Ian McKellen, Patrick Stewart, Hugh Jackman and even Alan Cumming, he lacks screen presence (or "it").

 

[The Punisher]

yup. I noticed that, even with logan hogging screentime, the other male x-men werent too affected by it. Cyclops, however, was. Zak penn even admitted that the reason Cyke kept getting screwed is because of wolverine

Link.

 

[gambitfire]

i totally have to disagree it's not like he had a chance to "stand out" besides Halle never really stood out either and i could name others yet they are still there. The truth is Fox never wanted Cyke to begin with teh writers said it. If you want to blame the actor go ahead but the fact remains that FOX did what they did and the actor's career is blooming to new heights. Marsdens a great actor he did stand out and i remeber back in X1 they where saying that it's hard for anyone to potray that role when you have your eyes covered all the time and ppl can't see your true emotions yet alot of ppl saw them.

Oh the one time he stood out in X2 at the end i remember ppl telling me it was too much...................i still don't get it. I think blaming the actor is cheap Marsden is good he had practically nothing to work with in X2 and obviously 3 if you didn't like him in X1 it's probably because his character kept getting pushed around by logan so he became a pushover that or you obviously prefer the Wolverine character which seems to be the case with alot of ppl who loved and defend this last movie so much.

 

[Celestial]

What made Halle stand out was her Oscar win, not anything she did in X1 or X2. I think if Marsden had had equivalent success outside of X-Men, they'd have been falling over themselves to sign him.

Noone is blaming Marsden. He's a good actor and he's pretty. He wasn't given much to do and he had the handicap of the visor. Whatever the reason, he wasn't seen as a standout in X1 or X2.

 

[gambitfire]

sorry, but i think Jan was clearly blaming Marsden.

 

[Jan Irisi]

sorry, but i think Jan was clearly blaming Marsden.

No, I didn't "blame" anyone. Do not put words in my mouth. I stated that he lacked something that was needed for the part. It is not his fault at all. Not many actors have what was needed to make the character stand up and be noticed, regardless of how much screen time he or she has. It is a rare quality in an actor to have the ability to do that. I never said he was a poor actor, I said that he lacked that extra something that pushes him over the top of the heap. As I said, some actors have it, others don't. That's the way it is. And by the way, I also believe that Halle lacked "it" as well, but as I was discussing Marsden, she didn't enter into my post.

When I refer to "it", think of the following example. Depp in POTC. Certainly other actors could act the role, and do it well, but how many could make the impact and command your attention as he did? The list is painfully short isn't it? When portraying larger than life characters, as comic book characters are, that extra "it" is required to make it work.

 

[Celestial]

Arrnold Schwarzenegger had "it".

 

[XCharlieX]

Why the hate for Wolverine?

He stole my cab yesterday :

 

[The Batman]

Link.

Its in the Xverse's Q and A archives

 

[danoyse]

What made Halle stand out was her Oscar win, not anything she did in X1 or X2. I think if Marsden had had equivalent success outside of X-Men, they'd have been falling over themselves to sign him.

Noone is blaming Marsden. He's a good actor and he's pretty. He wasn't given much to do and he had the handicap of the visor. Whatever the reason, he wasn't seen as a standout in X1 or X2.

And that visor was a huge handicap. You lose half of his facial expressions behind that thing, and the audience can't make a connection.

As for Wolverine, not only did he not have a visor, he barely had a shirt on for most of the first movie. My friends who normally hate these kinds of movies...LOVE X1 for that reason (and not all them are female). One of my friends noticed I had the DVD, and it whipped it off my shelf so fast to ask if she could borrow it, I swear I saw sparks fly.

He's just been a very appealing character, especially for the ladies.

 

[gambitfire]

No, I didn't "blame" anyone. Do not put words in my mouth. I stated that he lacked something that was needed for the part. It is not his fault at all. Not many actors have what was needed to make the character stand up and be noticed, regardless of how much screen time he or she has. It is a rare quality in an actor to have the ability to do that. I never said he was a poor actor, I said that he lacked that extra something that pushes him over the top of the heap. As I said, some actors have it, others don't. That's the way it is. And by the way, I also believe that Halle lacked "it" as well, but as I was discussing Marsden, she didn't enter into my post.

When I refer to "it", think of the following example. Depp in POTC. Certainly other actors could act the role, and do it well, but how many could make the impact and command your attention as he did? The list is painfully short isn't it? When portraying larger than life characters, as comic book characters are, that extra "it" is required to make it work.

Well i don't think Hugh has the "it" otherwise we would see more blockbuster movies coming from him. I already said what the problem with Cyke was im not repeating myself but it all still validates against or towards what your saying .

Your not blaming Marsden but your saying he lacked "it"; so what, therefore his character loss was insignificent?

Sorry Jan i can't help it feel like your placing a blame here . I Apologize maybe im blowing it slightly out of proportion.

As for Depp that's a whole other story, the characters are completely different. James played Cyclops with what he had. It wasn't his fault he wasn't give much.

Think about how many Celebrities "it" comes from sexual appeal and not actual talent. Something else i've noticed. In which case Hugh has got the "it".

And that visor was a huge handicap. You lose half of his facial expressions behind that thing, and the audience can't make a connection.

As for Wolverine, not only did he not have a visor, he barely had a shirt on for most of the first movie. My friends who normally hate these kinds of movies...LOVE X1 for that reason (and not all them are female). One of my friends noticed I had the DVD, and it whipped it off my shelf so fast to ask if she could borrow it, I swear I saw sparks fly.

He's just been a very appealing character, especially for the ladies.

Exactly what ive been saying, the visor made it more difficult.

as for the other thing
lol that is so very true my friend thought the movie was brilliant but i can't help it notice her obssesion with hugh jackman.

 

[The Batman]

the problem with cyke was that, frankly, fox wanted Wolverine to have his role. simple as that.

 

[danoyse]

Well i don't think Hugh has the "it" otherwise we would see more blockbuster movies coming from him. I already said what the problem with Cyke was im not repeating myself but it all still validates against or towards what your saying .

He definitely has *it*...he wouldn't have a career at all here if it wasn't for X-Men. He couldn't even get on Broadway before that. The movies he did in between didn't do well because of the movies themselves--if you go back and read the reviews, you'll see he rarely got bad reviews for his performance.

I saw him on Broadway--and I'm absolutely spoiled, jaded theatergoer who's seen plenty of movie stars on stage, and Hugh was the first person I've ever seen get a standing ovation during the show. And deserved it, the guy was an absolute lightning bolt up there.

And that was a show that got terrible reviews and many thought would close early--it played it's full run sold-out, and they only reason they closed it when he left was because they couldn't find anyone to replace him. They actually closed the show when he went on vacation instead of letting the understudy go on because people didn't want to see the show without him.

He's just a ridiculously talented guy. Like Darren Aronofsky told the crowd at Comic-Con last year promoting "The Fountain," if you've only seen him in X-Men, just wait to you really get to see him act.

 

[gambitfire]

wow i think your giving him too much credit. But that's just my opinion.

I swear *it* has too much to do with Sex Appeal .

the guy is good let's not blow it out of proportion.

 

[Celestial]

What's clear is that Fox think that Hugh has "it". They have a big investment in him - he's signed to headline two movies for them even before Wolverine, and his production company has offices on their lots in LA and Sydney. He's their very own homegrown star.

"It" is hard to define. It's that quality that when an actor is on stage or on screen your look at them. It's the strategy meeting in X1 when instead of watching Scott in the foreground, you're watching Logan pacing. There are different names - charisma, magnetism, stage presence, screen presence, "it" but they mean the same.

 

[gambitfire]

that's all fine but "it" was obviously there frequently because it was intended.

a good looking guy on screen most of the time acting like the bigger bad a$$...............everything just adds up.

LOL i couldn't help it but looking away. i was brought in more by Jean and Patrick's character or the whole amsamble in the first movie. Magneto and Mystique where what made it for me in X1.

 

[danoyse]

wow i think your giving him too much credit. But that's just my opinion.

I swear *it* has too much to do with Sex Appeal .

the guy is good let's not blow it out of proportion.

What part of "I saw him on Broadway" did you miss?

I'm not blowing anything out of proportion--they did close the show when he went on vacation, and they did close it for good when he left because they couldn't get anyone to replace him.

Like I said, I'm a jaded, spoiled theatergoer--I've been seeing shows since I was 5. In fact, my mom just text-messaged me during intermission of a show she's seeing in London with my dad right now with a review.

And I can say, in my jaded, spoiled theatergoer's opinion...wow, he is awesome. I remember emailing my friend (the one who borrowed my X1 dvd) afterwards and telling her "I didn't know Wolverine could shake his *** like that."

 

[gambitfire]

ok that's fine geez i get it you love him, and think he's incredible. That's an opinion all im saying.

broadway is great but it took X-Men to get him to where he is hollywood wise, and i have yet to see anything else stick solid to his name. It's like Tobey, Tobey is great and all but his name only brings up Spider-Man. Someone like Patrick Stewart or Ian Mckellan on the other hand......

 

[Celestial]

On stage he is really something. You do not look at anyone else.

 

[Drago]

The bolded statement is it in a nutshell. While Marsden may be a good sturdy reliable actor, he just doesn't have "it", the quality that makes him grab your attention and not let it go. I've been saying this since the first film. This role doesn't call for a good sturdy reliable actor, it calls for that extra something which Marsden lacks. It's not a bad thing. Not a lot of actors have "it". Some only have it on certain occasions.

The role of Cyclops needed that something extra. It needed an actor who could, even under the visor, grab hold of you. Ian has it. When he is on screen your attention is on him. Hugh as Wolverine had it. Christopher Reeve as Superman had it too. Depp, Judi Dench, Maggie Smith...the list goes on. Heck, even John Wayne had "it". He wasn't even that proficient as an actor, but dammit, when he was on screen he commanded your attention. That's what the role of Cyclops needed. To command your attention, regardless of how much time he spent on screen. Marsden just didn't command much of anything. It's a shame.

I kind of disagree- I think Marsden's a very good actor. I know what your talking about with "it", but it's the character of Cyclops in the films that is lacking what your talking about, not Marsden. I think they wanted Cyke played a certain way- a hardass, not emotionally vulnerable, and so on. Marsden did a good job playing him, especially come the end of X2 when that vulnerability was thrown into his character, and carried into X3.

Still love Pheonix taking away his "curse". In my opinion, if they focused on Cyke more in terms of character it would have been different... it's a shame that rather than making him a three dimensional character he existed only as a satellite character for Logan. But then again, the X-Men trilogy isn't actually about the x-men, it's about Logan's adventures with them as he "passes through". They came around by accident in the first, and by the end of X3 he leaves them (atleast originally he did, which I think is good closure for him... either way, he won't be around for any future x-flicks except his spinoffs).

 

[gambitfire]

edit- to celestial

by any chance is he front man or main character?

 

[Celestial]

edit- to celestial

by any chance is he front man or main character?

Of course!

 

[gambitfire]

well then i guess it all makes sense.