Civil War Winter is Coming - The Bucky Barnes Thread

[Tvar10]

and by [BLACKOUT]refreezing him again[/BLACKOUT] it totally cuts out any redemption story for the time being... and thats the essense of the character...Redemption

 

[JB33]

Who knows? They sort of don't even deal with the fact that SHIELD fell apart and the government was revealed to be full of Hydra in the last film.

They dealt with this in Avengers: Age of Ultron. Leading up to the film the Avengers - as well as the team from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - had been taking out HYDRA factions. Then in the first act of AoU, the Avengers are taking out HYDRA's proverbial eagle's nest led by Strucker.

Really all that remains are are wannabes like Malick from the show. I don't get the feeling HYDRA is much of a factor anymore in the MCU.

 

[metaphysician]

Yes Bucky is a victim but let's be honest he still killed so many people over the years most notably Tony's parents Howard Stark and Maria Stark...Bucky killed them and he should have had to answer for that

Why? He was brainwashed, such that he literally has no control over his actions. Its like saying you should have to answer for having sex, when someone else roofies you.

 

[metaphysician]

and by [BLACKOUT]refreezing him again[/BLACKOUT] it totally cuts out any redemption story for the time being... and thats the essense of the character...Redemption

I disagree. Making that decision *is* his redemption. Its him putting the needs of others over his own desires.

 

[Tvar10]

I disagree. Making that decision *is* his redemption. Its him putting the needs of others over his own desires.

I guess I can see that point, I just took it as he's not really redeeming anything he's done, hes more of preventing it from happening again.

 

[metaphysician]

I guess I can see that point, I just took it as he's not really redeeming anything he's done, hes more of preventing it from happening again.

"He" didn't do it in the first place, is the thing. As has been said, again and again: brainwashing. If you literally cannot control your own actions, because of stuff done to you by others, *you are not morally responsible*.

 

[hafizbat]

"He" didn't do it in the first place, is the thing. As has been said, again and again: brainwashing. If you literally cannot control your own actions, because of stuff done to you by others, *you are not morally responsible*.

Exactly. I don't see why people keep saying he needs to redeem himself. His story arc is leading to freedom, not redemption.

 

[MarvelMayhem]

just got back from second viewing and I am a fully devoted Bucky fan. My heart literally breaks for this dude, really hope we see in the future Bucky with some sort of happiness. No one has had it worse than this guy; literally.

 

[ciscostudent561]

just got back from second viewing and I am a fully devoted Bucky fan. My heart literally breaks for this dude, really hope we see in the future Bucky with some sort of happiness. No one has had it worse than this guy; literally.

its even worse that hes now public enemy 1

 

[MarvelMayhem]

its even worse that hes now public enemy 1

Speaking of which I kind of felt it far fetched that he was found fairly easily in this movie while he has been unfindable for 2 years prior.

 

[Dugath]

Speaking of which I kind of felt it far fetched that he was found fairly easily in this movie while he has been unfindable for 2 years prior.

Previously no one was really looking for him accept some government agencies.

He was found "easily" now because his face was in plastered all over various media types (paper, tv, internet..) someone was bound to see and report it.

 

[MarvelMayhem]

Because no one was really looking for him accept some goverment agencies.

He was found "easily" because his face was in plastered all over various media types (paper, tv, internet..) someone was bound to see and report it.

But his face had to have been plastered everywhere after DC right? That was kind a big show too.

 

[Tvar10]

Exactly. I don't see why people keep saying he needs to redeem himself. His story arc is leading to freedom, not redemption.

Everyone is saying he needs to redeem himself because the character in the comics is based off redemption. Even tho "he" wasn't responsible for his actions he took it upon him to make up for everything he did wrong. And becoming the captain America in the process

He went from hero sidekick to being dead. To a mind wiped assassin. To a man with problems trying to fix them and make up for them. To a symbol of America
His arc over this trilogy is similar but he wasn't established as much of a hero. He was a good assassin. He realized who he was and went into hiding. To ultimately being frozen so no one can control him

I love the Bucky character and didn't necessarily want him to become cap but would have loved to see more making up for 50 years of murdering people instead of the ending we got.

 

[Golgo-13]

I think Bucky/The Winter Soldier is one of the best characters in the MCU.

 

[samsnee]

Agreed. The little scene between him and Cap talking about spending their train money really showed how cool and down to Earth Bucky is and how he'll never really get that innocence back.

 

[The Guard]

Exactly. I don't see why people keep saying he needs to redeem himself. His story arc is leading to freedom, not redemption.

Explain to me how freedom is not a form of redemption.

His story arc seems to have led to more mindless captivity, but whatever.

Bucky just feels hollow as a character, because apparently, someone who has been brainwashed, even when no longer brainwashed, must now act like an emotional zombie.

 

[Anita18]

The whole movie I was thinking, "Man, Bucky woke up that day thinking he was going to get some nice ripe plums and spend a quiet day at the park or something, and WHAT. THE. F***." No wonder why he was so sad and sick of everything the entire time!

Think about it. He's the ONLY named character in the entire cast who didn't ask for any of this. Rhodey accepted the risks of what he was getting into. So did Steve, Tony, Vision, Clint, Scott, Sam, Natasha, and Wanda (although hers was barely a choice since she was already a prisoner, but still a choice!). Even high schooler PETER PARKER got to choose. But not Bucky. Bucky was thrown into this whole situation where he's made public enemy #1, and everyone's trying to kill him.

And not only that, it turns out that despite his best efforts, he can still be made to hurt and kill people, which he does not want to do anymore, under any circumstances. (Hell, in MCU canon according to his serial number, the guy was drafted, he didn't even enlist like Steve did.) Sebastian really sold the pain he had when he tried to stop it and afterwards, when he realized what he'd done. Given that, the decision he makes at the end credits scene makes sense, although I disagree with that podcast linked to earlier, that insinuated Bucky didn't feel enough guilt to go scot-free. Luckily Seb managed to sell it, so it didn't look like it came out of nowhere.

I would have liked to see more substantial conversation between Bucky and Steve, sure, but movie had that patina of just go-go-go, that it might have seemed out of place to slow down just for that, since it wasn't directly plot-related. It was clear that Bucky didn't feel worthy of Steve's devotion, but I disagree that he "should have done more" for Steve. He's obviously trying, although there's not much he can do besides help stop the potential evil plot and help stop Tony from beating on Steve, which he did.

Can Dr. Strange fix Bucky? I'd really like to see him heal and start to kick butt and not get beat on all the time!

 

[samsnee]

Explain to me how freedom is not a form of redemption.

His story arc seems to have led to more mindless captivity, but whatever.

Bucky just feels hollow as a character, because apparently, someone who has been brainwashed, even when no longer brainwashed, must now act like an emotional zombie.

Bucky remembers every person he murdered. You'll have to excuse him for not being sunshine and rainbows. But keep complaining about everything like you do on every single board.

 

[Silvermoon]

The whole movie I was thinking, "Man, Bucky woke up that day thinking he was going to get some nice ripe plums and spend a quiet day at the park or something, and WHAT. THE. F***." No wonder why he was so sad and sick of everything the entire time!

Think about it. He's the ONLY named character in the entire cast who didn't ask for any of this. Rhodey accepted the risks of what he was getting into. So did Steve, Tony, Vision, Clint, Scott, Sam, Natasha, and Wanda (although hers was barely a choice since she was already a prisoner, but still a choice!). Even high schooler PETER PARKER got to choose. But not Bucky. Bucky was thrown into this whole situation where he's made public enemy #1, and everyone's trying to kill him.

And not only that, it turns out that despite his best efforts, he can still be made to hurt and kill people, which he does not want to do anymore, under any circumstances. (Hell, in MCU canon according to his serial number, the guy was drafted, he didn't even enlist like Steve did.) Sebastian really sold the pain he had when he tried to stop it and afterwards, when he realized what he'd done. Given that, the decision he makes at the end credits scene makes sense, although I disagree with that podcast linked to earlier, that insinuated Bucky didn't feel enough guilt to go scot-free. Luckily Seb managed to sell it, so it didn't look like it came out of nowhere.

I would have liked to see more substantial conversation between Bucky and Steve, sure, but movie had that patina of just go-go-go, that it might have seemed out of place to slow down just for that, since it wasn't directly plot-related. It was clear that Bucky didn't feel worthy of Steve's devotion, but I disagree that he "should have done more" for Steve. He's obviously trying, although there's not much he can do besides help stop the potential evil plot and help stop Tony from beating on Steve, which he did.

Can Dr. Strange fix Bucky? I'd really like to see him heal and start to kick butt and not get beat on all the time!

Regarding the serial number, while I would like to think they researched that deeply into what type of serial number means you were drafted as opposed to enlisted in WWII, remember that this is the same universe that ended up with Bucky having 2 different birthyears listed on the same prop (the Smithsonian exhibit). Given the type of historical mistakes/goofs that can be made in films (especially on things that they probably don't think fans will look too deeply at), I wouldn't necessarily say it's "canon" that he was drafted, not enlisted, unless they flat out say (in a line of dialogue, for example) that he was drafted and not enlisted. I mean, clearly things are slightly different in the MCU universe than our own... it may not be the case that serial numbers that start with "3" (or whatever it was) in the MCU meant drafted not enlisted like it does in our world

 

[Schlosser85]

Supposedly Sebastian Stan is confirmed for both parts of Infinity War.

 

[Another_Fool]

How is it that nobody has brought up what a big deal it was for Bucky to witness Steve kissing a member of the opposite sex? That is vindication for about 80 years of witnessing failure as Steve's wingman.

Peggy's kiss doesn't count since Bucky was MIA.

 

[Anita18]

Regarding the serial number, while I would like to think they researched that deeply into what type of serial number means you were drafted as opposed to enlisted in WWII, remember that this is the same universe that ended up with Bucky having 2 different birthyears listed on the same prop (the Smithsonian exhibit). Given the type of historical mistakes/goofs that can be made in films (especially on things that they probably don't think fans will look too deeply at), I wouldn't necessarily say it's "canon" that he was drafted, not enlisted, unless they flat out say (in a line of dialogue, for example) that he was drafted and not enlisted. I mean, clearly things are slightly different in the MCU universe than our own... it may not be the case that serial numbers that start with "3" (or whatever it was) in the MCU meant drafted not enlisted like it does in our world

Sure, it's not a guarantee, but it certainly would add to the tragedy of the 70+ years that he was tortured under Hydra, if you consider that he didn't even really have a choice in being in the army to get experimented on to begin with.

But I choose not to be (too) sad today. Look at all these versions of Bucky not being sad! https://www.instagram.com/p/BFHGm1MpaHw/

(I'm going to need to save that and play it whenever I'm feeling too sad about Bucky!)

 

[Anita18]

How is it that nobody has brought up what a big deal it was for Bucky to witness Steve kissing a member of the opposite sex? That is vindication for about 80 years of witnessing failure as Steve's wingman.

Peggy's kiss doesn't count since Bucky was MIA.

That whole thing was pointless, but Bucky and Sam's reaction made it worth the audience's while.

Speaking of which Schlosser and I were discussing how we both got on the BuckyNat train after seeing CW, when we weren't really on it before. They display the same kind of pragmatic world-weariness to the events in CW that we didn't see from either of them in TWS.

I basically want to zap Brutasha out of my head, and Bucky needs some tender loving even more than Steve does, at this point in time.

 

[Another_Fool]

That whole thing was pointless, but Bucky and Sam's reaction made it worth the audience's while.

Speaking of which Schlosser and I were discussing how we both got on the BuckyNat train after seeing CW, when we weren't really on it before. They display the same kind of pragmatic world-weariness to the events in CW that we didn't see from either of them in TWS.

I basically want to zap Brutasha out of my head, and Bucky needs some tender loving even more than Steve does, at this point in time.

Well not only do I think there is a higher chance of making an organic, believable romantic relationship between Bucky and Nat, it would be faithful to the comics. So yeah totally onboard the BuckTasha train.

Anything to wash the stink away from Brutasha. Ugh still can't believe Joss thought that would work.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Really interested to see what happens next with Bucky, obviously he isn't going to stay frozen in Wakanda for years on end so when he wakes up I really interested in how they explore it.

I am.also interested in how he is going to get his arm back, will BP give him a shiny new vibranium arm I wonder?