Without the Wrestling Thread, There Is...No...You! - - - Part 188

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Reddit user MetsFan4Ever, who has broken several WWE stories in the past, report that the backstage atmosphere at last night's WWE RAW in Tulsa was "very tense." WWE employees were reportedly trying to avoid Stephanie McMahon and Triple H because they were furious over CM Punk's Art of Wrestling podcast. Apparently there was also a closed-door meeting with Triple H, Stephanie and Vince McMahon.

It was also noted that NXT stars The Ascension are close to making their main roster debuts. This has been rumored for some time now but apparently WWE production has been working on a vignette for their debut. That could air after next week's NXT Takeover special. Word is that The Ascension will resemble some of the WWF tag teams from the 1980's.

- Dolph Ziggler vs. WWE Intercontinental Champion Luke Harper at the TLC pay-per-view will likely be a Ladder Match.

Source: WrestlingInc
 
When he said he was a main event player, he meant the actual show!

[YT]3feKS3-H3g4[/YT]

Wow, GameStop went all out!
 
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I don't think any article could sum up my thoughts better than this. Spot on!

credit www.pwinsider.com

MILLENNIALS IN THE LOCKER ROOM, APOLOGIES TO CM PUNK AND MORE: THOUGHTS ON THE VINCE MCMAHON PODCAST
by Mike Johnson @ 1:08 PM on 12/2/2014


I initially wanted to do this via audio but I am fighting off a sinus infection and the last thing Elite subscribers need to hear is that, so here are some thoughts on the Vince McMahon podcast featuring Steve Austin interviewing the Grand Poobah of WWE:


No One Has Grabbed the Brass Ring since John Cena.
Now, ignoring the fact that CM Punk certainly did in 2011 and Daniel Bryan did earlier this year, that statement was basically Vince McMahon saying that since John Cena ascended to the top of the company and became a star, no one else has.

To me, that is an admission of mediocrity, at best, or failure, at worst...and not a failure of the talent. It's a failure of Vince McMahon.

It was only a few months ago when The Shield and The Wyatt Family faced off and the crowd chanted "This is awesome" before they even touched. Now, neither entity exists. That is not their failure...and neither act was mediocre. This, more than anything was a sign that WWE has failed itself and failed it's talents by not recognizing what they bring to the table.
Remember, the original plan for Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania was to have him wrestle Sheamus...on the undercard...for the third time. Guess that's because Bryan hadn't grabbed the brass ring? Guess again.

I really wish Austin had followed up with Vince and pointed out names that "have" grabbed the brass ring, because off the top of my head, I had several. None of them, sans Bryan, have ever made it to the main event of Wrestlemania - and if that IS the brass ring, only one man pulled it away - Vince himself.


Cesaro.
Vince McMahon's comments about Cesaro will likely be the most frustrating thing for any long-time fan of his to digest.

Cesaro's placement in the card currently is due to being a victim of the start/stop/start booking that plagues a lot of the talents today and that all begins and ends with Vince seeing things he likes and doesn't like in talents that have nothing to do with how the audience sees them.

Let's not forget that Chris Jericho often tells the talent of wrestling Daniel Bryan on the debut of WWE NXT and telling Vince after that Bryan was a star. Vince's reaction? "Him? He doesn't even eat meat!" That right there is a great insight into the thought process of what being a star means to Vince McMahon and how hard it is for talents to overcome whatever perception Vince has of them.

Cesaro may be a beast in the ring. He may have great matches. He may have that unique European presentation, but if Vince doesn't see him as "having it", where Cesaro resides now - the nexus that is the mid-card, is likely where he will always dwell.
Ask Zack Ryder.

It wasn't Cesaro who asked to stop doing the Big Swing. It was WWE who told him to stop. When you start taking elements of a performer away from him - elements that were getting a reaction - without something equal to replace them with, and then book him to lose all the time, what sort of connection do you expect him to have?

Cesaro hasn't been used right since he won the Andre the Giant Battle Royal. Austin pretty much said that to Vince but the message didn't seep through. Go back and study how he's been utilized Vince, and you will see why he's "not there yet". It has NOTHING to do with being European, or is that the excuse as for why Bad News Barrett, Sheamus, etc. haven't grabbed the brass ring, either?


CM Punk Apology
While apologizing for CM Punk getting his termination and breach of contract letter on his wedding day, McMahon really didn't acknowledge any wrong-doing by himself of his lieutenants, explaining that in a company of their size, legal didn't talk to talent relations.

That of course fails to take into account that CM Punk said he texted back and forth with Triple H and told him they could talk when Punk got back from his honeymoon as he was getting married in two days. So, if "Talent Relations" means Triple H (who is in charge of that department), that means HHH purposely didn't contact legal and say, "Wait up." or it means someone working for HHH is so inept that they lacked common sense.
During the podcast, Vince claimed he didn't listen to the Punk interview. I believe that to be the case, but perhaps someone should make him listen. Even if half of Punk's claims are absolute bullsh**, the other half may not be and if even a smidgen of truth surrounds his accusations of WWE's medical staff, Vince McMahon should be tearing heads off to make sure nothing of that sort ever happens again, because if it does, someone is going to drop dead under WWE's watch.

Whether Vince feels CM Punk did him wrong or whether he feels Punk will come to regret his comments or whether the issue was that Punk lacked "communication skills", the reality is that WWE did nothing to repair the relationship that we know of, either.

WWE was in Chicago a number of times. How many WWE execs went by Punk's home, which HAD to be in the 30 minute driving radius of the Allstate Center? How come no one reached out to him after his suspension ended? If Vince knew Punk had been concussed, why didn't he or anyone in WWE's medical team ever follow up on Punk's health?

Vince apologized last night but at the end of the day, the apology should have been to the WWE fans, because there are always two sides at fault when a relationship goes to hell, and WWE didn't apologize for their part in that rift.

Vince, go listen to the damn interview.


Millennials
I don't think I have ever heard, over the course of any interview, podcast or public statement, the owner of a company pretty much bury the entire roster he has, but that's what Vince McMahon did last night - on the Network they built with their own hard work.
When Vince said that he felt the current roster where "Millennials" who didn't show the same aggression that the Attitude Era talents did, what he was really telling them is that they suck, although he did name a few that he felt were doing well.

Meanwhile, Austin blatantly said that the talents walk around on eggshells backstage and are afraid to piss anyone off. Vince's reaction? "So, They better not piss anyone off then" was the absolutely stupidest thing he could have said. What Vince should have said is, "I wish they would piss me off. Then, I wish they would prove me wrong. I would welcome that."
Vince McMahon painted his locker room as a bunch of lazy failures who are happy to be in the corner he has painted for them and then warned them they better not do anything to disrupt that. That my friends is exactly why we have a bunch of Harlem Globetrotters, happy to be on the roster and perform, instead of a bunch of NBA Superstars seeking to shake things up so they can win The NBA championship.

It's an analogy I've made many a times before about today's WWE roster vs. the past rosters, but it's true. There are far too many of the talents scared to take a stand, scared to do what they know in their hearts is right as performers and too shackled by overwritten scripts to break out as performers.

If Vince really feels that way, he should turn around and fire the entire roster. He's got hungry talents in NXT waiting, so bring them up and throw them to wolves. Obviously, these Millenials aren't getting the job done.
When you think back to last night, remember that Austin challenged the performers to break out. Vince didn't. He just crapped on them.

I'm Not Out of Touch
I worked in the Hollywood and Broadway realms from 1997-2004. Trust me when I say, when someone makes that statement, it usually means they are indeed out of touch. It happens in the entertainment industry, as the pulse of the audience changes so often and especially when someone has made so much money, they insulate themselves in a bubble, perhaps not even realizing they've done so. That doesn't mean things can't change, but if Vince really thinks he's not out of touch with his audience, remember he said no one has grabbed that brass ring in ELEVEN YEARS.
ELEVEN YEARS.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown and the crown is on Vince's head.
P.S. You just had a cat as the guest star on a wrestling (sorry, sports-entertainment) show, Vince. This week, you had the return of the Anonymous General Manager. Next week, Seth Green (who I like personally a lot). None of these are David Arquette in WCW, but they aren't the glory days of WWE programming either.

Speaking of which, when was the last great moment on Raw you can name Vince? The type that will be celebrated the way the Austin beer truck moment is? Or Hogan vs. Andre?
Well?

"I'm Extremely Open to Feedback...."
"...But I don't listen to critics."
Vince McMahon actually said that within about 30 seconds of each other. The problem with feedback is that you can't listen to everyone because them your own thought process gets muddied. But, it can be helpful. That said, if WWE are only looking to fans for feedback, well, there are a lot of fans who think the Ding Dongs and The Godwins should be back on TV. Not all fan feedback is relevant to today's product.

Now, if Vince is tuning out critics completely, THAT is a bad sign for the future because while some of what they say will be tapped into the minutiae and won't be relevant for the big picture, the remainder should be seen as what it is - a reason to strive for something better, to strive to prove them wrong and a free sounding board that's going to point out flaws in ways family members and paid "Yes Men" never will.

The interview was fascinating to be sure. Scary at times, absolutely. But, certainly, newsworthy and thought-provoking. I just hope some of what he said, once it's dissected by the outside world, gives Vince some reason to think about what he said and what his thought process is and how they, like WWE, can be improved going forward....as long as it doesn't come from those critics, that is.

Mike Johnson can be reached at [email protected] and can be followed at @MikePWInsider
 
Ok so...out of everything so far...

- Dolph Ziggler vs Luke Harper:
This is a feud that needs more mic time given to it for it to be significant however I am into the idea of these two having a ladder match for the belt because it's been a while since we've seen that and these two are great workers

- Dean Ambrose vs Bray Wyatt: Once again, A feud that can be done better than it has been and despite Ambrose and Wyatt doing there parts in this, the creative laziness is causing a lack of the needed intensity. Hopefully the TLC match will give these guys a chance to not hold back and deliver a brutal match. Honestly, this feud calls for things like Dog Collar and Texas Bullrope matches.

- Seth Rollins vs Cena
- The good thing about this being a tables match is that no matter who wins no one has to eat the pinfall, however it would be best if the ended was screwy because we know they want Cena vs Lesnar at the Rumble and Rollins needs to maintain steam going into his planned feud with Orton.
 
I don't understand why McMahon hates wrestling so much. Might as well rename the company WSE: World Sports Entertaiment.

He's totally in denial. I understand he wants everyone to understand that there's more to WWE than the wrestling aspect, but to censor the word "wrestling" when it is clearly what all the storylines, feuds, and skits are centered around? Outside the WRESTLING shows, they have movies which are absolute crap in most cases. Does Vince really want to be more known for Jingle all the Way 2 and the Marine 4 when nobody gives a crap about those movies? It's either be the king of wrestling or the king of DTV garbage. Most (if not all) of their non-wrestling ventures are failures and will always be viewed as supplemental to the core of the company which is WRESTLING.
 
At least five times McMahon said "I listen to the audience." Yet also said "how do we know what the audience wants until we try a bunch of things?" and refused to say how fans could contact WWE, and voice their opinions, even rolling his eyes when Austin suggested fans contact him on Twitter.

It is clear to me that Vince is king of the WWE and will do as he sees fit. He claims Cesaro doesn't have "it," and knows damn well that Jim Ross and CM Punk are two of the best out there, but not so good as to have worked out his issues with them before they left the company. He insulted the entire roster several times, praised Brock Lesner as being special, and the only guy "worth" defeating the streak, and said no one has reached for the brass ring since John Cena. To me, the emperor had no clothes on tonight, but believed he was dressed in all his splendor.

**** you Vince.....sideways with a broom!

Cesaro was the guy who got The Real Americans stable over and he was super over with the big swing. People marked out when he won the Andre The Giant challenge at wrestlemania and your saying he doesn't have it :huh:

No one has reached the brass ring since Cena because you don't let anyone touch Cena's golden pedestal you have placed him on.
 
I stopped viewing WWE as a true "wrestling" company years ago. If Vince doesn't see it as such, I'm not going to. Besides, it's turned into a ****ing freak show now.
 
Ok so...out of everything so far...
- Dean Ambrose vs Bray Wyatt: Once again, A feud that can be done better than it has been and despite Ambrose and Wyatt doing there parts in this, the creative laziness is causing a lack of the needed intensity. Hopefully the TLC match will give these guys a chance to not hold back and deliver a brutal match. Honestly, this feud calls for things like Dog Collar and Texas Bullrope matches.


Mick Foley should come back in some kind of mentor role to one (or both*) of these guys, leading to a Boiler Room Brawl or a Buried Alive match.




[size=-2]*Heck, if I was booking, I'd have Mick as Mankind mentor Dean and Mick as Cactus Jack mentor Bray, but that might be a bit too far out there for the average fan.[/size]
 
86671493567234725613214517.jpg
 
I don't think any article could sum up my thoughts better than this. Spot on!

credit www.pwinsider.com

MILLENNIALS IN THE LOCKER ROOM, APOLOGIES TO CM PUNK AND MORE: THOUGHTS ON THE VINCE MCMAHON PODCAST
by Mike Johnson @ 1:08 PM on 12/2/2014


I initially wanted to do this via audio but I am fighting off a sinus infection and the last thing Elite subscribers need to hear is that, so here are some thoughts on the Vince McMahon podcast featuring Steve Austin interviewing the Grand Poobah of WWE:


No One Has Grabbed the Brass Ring since John Cena.
Now, ignoring the fact that CM Punk certainly did in 2011 and Daniel Bryan did earlier this year, that statement was basically Vince McMahon saying that since John Cena ascended to the top of the company and became a star, no one else has.

To me, that is an admission of mediocrity, at best, or failure, at worst...and not a failure of the talent. It's a failure of Vince McMahon.

It was only a few months ago when The Shield and The Wyatt Family faced off and the crowd chanted "This is awesome" before they even touched. Now, neither entity exists. That is not their failure...and neither act was mediocre. This, more than anything was a sign that WWE has failed itself and failed it's talents by not recognizing what they bring to the table.
Remember, the original plan for Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania was to have him wrestle Sheamus...on the undercard...for the third time. Guess that's because Bryan hadn't grabbed the brass ring? Guess again.

I really wish Austin had followed up with Vince and pointed out names that "have" grabbed the brass ring, because off the top of my head, I had several. None of them, sans Bryan, have ever made it to the main event of Wrestlemania - and if that IS the brass ring, only one man pulled it away - Vince himself.


Cesaro.
Vince McMahon's comments about Cesaro will likely be the most frustrating thing for any long-time fan of his to digest.

Cesaro's placement in the card currently is due to being a victim of the start/stop/start booking that plagues a lot of the talents today and that all begins and ends with Vince seeing things he likes and doesn't like in talents that have nothing to do with how the audience sees them.

Let's not forget that Chris Jericho often tells the talent of wrestling Daniel Bryan on the debut of WWE NXT and telling Vince after that Bryan was a star. Vince's reaction? "Him? He doesn't even eat meat!" That right there is a great insight into the thought process of what being a star means to Vince McMahon and how hard it is for talents to overcome whatever perception Vince has of them.

Cesaro may be a beast in the ring. He may have great matches. He may have that unique European presentation, but if Vince doesn't see him as "having it", where Cesaro resides now - the nexus that is the mid-card, is likely where he will always dwell.
Ask Zack Ryder.

It wasn't Cesaro who asked to stop doing the Big Swing. It was WWE who told him to stop. When you start taking elements of a performer away from him - elements that were getting a reaction - without something equal to replace them with, and then book him to lose all the time, what sort of connection do you expect him to have?

Cesaro hasn't been used right since he won the Andre the Giant Battle Royal. Austin pretty much said that to Vince but the message didn't seep through. Go back and study how he's been utilized Vince, and you will see why he's "not there yet". It has NOTHING to do with being European, or is that the excuse as for why Bad News Barrett, Sheamus, etc. haven't grabbed the brass ring, either?


CM Punk Apology
While apologizing for CM Punk getting his termination and breach of contract letter on his wedding day, McMahon really didn't acknowledge any wrong-doing by himself of his lieutenants, explaining that in a company of their size, legal didn't talk to talent relations.

That of course fails to take into account that CM Punk said he texted back and forth with Triple H and told him they could talk when Punk got back from his honeymoon as he was getting married in two days. So, if "Talent Relations" means Triple H (who is in charge of that department), that means HHH purposely didn't contact legal and say, "Wait up." or it means someone working for HHH is so inept that they lacked common sense.
During the podcast, Vince claimed he didn't listen to the Punk interview. I believe that to be the case, but perhaps someone should make him listen. Even if half of Punk's claims are absolute bullsh**, the other half may not be and if even a smidgen of truth surrounds his accusations of WWE's medical staff, Vince McMahon should be tearing heads off to make sure nothing of that sort ever happens again, because if it does, someone is going to drop dead under WWE's watch.

Whether Vince feels CM Punk did him wrong or whether he feels Punk will come to regret his comments or whether the issue was that Punk lacked "communication skills", the reality is that WWE did nothing to repair the relationship that we know of, either.

WWE was in Chicago a number of times. How many WWE execs went by Punk's home, which HAD to be in the 30 minute driving radius of the Allstate Center? How come no one reached out to him after his suspension ended? If Vince knew Punk had been concussed, why didn't he or anyone in WWE's medical team ever follow up on Punk's health?

Vince apologized last night but at the end of the day, the apology should have been to the WWE fans, because there are always two sides at fault when a relationship goes to hell, and WWE didn't apologize for their part in that rift.

Vince, go listen to the damn interview.


Millennials
I don't think I have ever heard, over the course of any interview, podcast or public statement, the owner of a company pretty much bury the entire roster he has, but that's what Vince McMahon did last night - on the Network they built with their own hard work.
When Vince said that he felt the current roster where "Millennials" who didn't show the same aggression that the Attitude Era talents did, what he was really telling them is that they suck, although he did name a few that he felt were doing well.

Meanwhile, Austin blatantly said that the talents walk around on eggshells backstage and are afraid to piss anyone off. Vince's reaction? "So, They better not piss anyone off then" was the absolutely stupidest thing he could have said. What Vince should have said is, "I wish they would piss me off. Then, I wish they would prove me wrong. I would welcome that."
Vince McMahon painted his locker room as a bunch of lazy failures who are happy to be in the corner he has painted for them and then warned them they better not do anything to disrupt that. That my friends is exactly why we have a bunch of Harlem Globetrotters, happy to be on the roster and perform, instead of a bunch of NBA Superstars seeking to shake things up so they can win The NBA championship.

It's an analogy I've made many a times before about today's WWE roster vs. the past rosters, but it's true. There are far too many of the talents scared to take a stand, scared to do what they know in their hearts is right as performers and too shackled by overwritten scripts to break out as performers.

If Vince really feels that way, he should turn around and fire the entire roster. He's got hungry talents in NXT waiting, so bring them up and throw them to wolves. Obviously, these Millenials aren't getting the job done.
When you think back to last night, remember that Austin challenged the performers to break out. Vince didn't. He just crapped on them.

I'm Not Out of Touch
I worked in the Hollywood and Broadway realms from 1997-2004. Trust me when I say, when someone makes that statement, it usually means they are indeed out of touch. It happens in the entertainment industry, as the pulse of the audience changes so often and especially when someone has made so much money, they insulate themselves in a bubble, perhaps not even realizing they've done so. That doesn't mean things can't change, but if Vince really thinks he's not out of touch with his audience, remember he said no one has grabbed that brass ring in ELEVEN YEARS.
ELEVEN YEARS.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown and the crown is on Vince's head.
P.S. You just had a cat as the guest star on a wrestling (sorry, sports-entertainment) show, Vince. This week, you had the return of the Anonymous General Manager. Next week, Seth Green (who I like personally a lot). None of these are David Arquette in WCW, but they aren't the glory days of WWE programming either.

Speaking of which, when was the last great moment on Raw you can name Vince? The type that will be celebrated the way the Austin beer truck moment is? Or Hogan vs. Andre?
Well?

"I'm Extremely Open to Feedback...."
"...But I don't listen to critics."
Vince McMahon actually said that within about 30 seconds of each other. The problem with feedback is that you can't listen to everyone because them your own thought process gets muddied. But, it can be helpful. That said, if WWE are only looking to fans for feedback, well, there are a lot of fans who think the Ding Dongs and The Godwins should be back on TV. Not all fan feedback is relevant to today's product.

Now, if Vince is tuning out critics completely, THAT is a bad sign for the future because while some of what they say will be tapped into the minutiae and won't be relevant for the big picture, the remainder should be seen as what it is - a reason to strive for something better, to strive to prove them wrong and a free sounding board that's going to point out flaws in ways family members and paid "Yes Men" never will.

The interview was fascinating to be sure. Scary at times, absolutely. But, certainly, newsworthy and thought-provoking. I just hope some of what he said, once it's dissected by the outside world, gives Vince some reason to think about what he said and what his thought process is and how they, like WWE, can be improved going forward....as long as it doesn't come from those critics, that is.
Mike Johnson can be reached at [email protected] and can be followed at @MikePWInsider

If its within their power to do so, Vince's fellow shareholders need to remove him from power ASAP.

He continues to show that he is no longer competent enough to run the company. And to be totally honest, they need to consider if they they can trust Haith and Steph to do so after Vince. Or else, risk having history repeat itself down the line.

Because lets face it....... Hunter is alot like Vince was back in the 80s when he was first revolutionizing "Sports Entertainment".
 
If Hunter, Steph, and every other major shareholder pull their resources, maybe they can buy out Vince or organize some kind of takeover. But doesn't Vince own at least 50-60% of the company's stock? I have no idea how stocks work. So I, not even sure if that would work.
 
The private equity investor from a while back making noise is still out there (you can screw with a company with just 8-10% of its stock if you have a strong enough reputation). Though if the PE investor has its way, us wrestling fans may like the result even less than if Vince was still in charge.
 
Would they actually want to?

I guess it would come down to whether or not Hunter could convince them that staying the course runs the risk of further customer dissatisfaction, resulting in overall loss of long term business, and that risk is worth the potential rewards.
 
Free shipping for orders $40 and up on ShopTNA.com today. Fu** it, I did it, lol.
 
I just read that Bill Dundee, Lance Russell, and Jerry Jarrett have all been interviewed for an upcoming Jerry Lawler DVD set.
 
I would've done the brown bag special had they kept the old deal where you got 4 DVDs, an action figure, a banner, and a t-shirt for $25, but I guess they're being stingy.

I was just going to buy Bound For Glory last year since I never saw it, but with the special going on and stuff on discount, I also picked up Sting's gloves (I'm buying his vintage shirt from WWE soon), Bound For Glory 2005 and Genesis 2006. Ah, the good old days of TNA.
 
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WWE is wrestling despite what McMahon says. If you have worked wrestling matches inside a ring you are pro wrestling. McMahon has never had big success outside wrestling and will always be a pro wrestling promoter. There's nothing wrong with that either. It doesn't matter what Vince says WWE is: it's wrestling.
 
Mick Foley should come back in some kind of mentor role to one (or both*) of these guys, leading to a Boiler Room Brawl or a Buried Alive match.




[SIZE=-2]*Heck, if I was booking, I'd have Mick as Mankind mentor Dean and Mick as Cactus Jack mentor Bray, but that might be a bit too far out there for the average fan.[/SIZE]
I ****ing love this idea.
 
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