Writing Characters out of...character

[StreetWarrior]

Fraction can be quite the d-bag. His Punisher (from WarJournal) was horribly out of character. It's kind of sad how the major Marvel writers feel that they can ignore everyone else's work. First Bendis, now Fraction.

Does anyone (besides Slott and Gage) respect continuity/characterizations?

 

[runawayboulder]

Waid, Gillen, Parker.

 

[StreetWarrior]

Waid, Gillen, Parker.

Well, then my hat is off to them. Maybe some other writers cough*bendismillerfraction*cough should take notes.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The "they're not real" argument is silly. Everyone knows they're not real. Everyone also knows about this thing called internal consistency. A fictional universe that is potentially going to go on forever kind of hinges on it. Otherwise, you might as well just change the names of every character whenever someone new starts writing.

 

[StreetWarrior]

It all comes down to ego and laziness. Both are traits that should be looked down upon.

 

[runawayboulder]

The "they're not real" argument is silly. Everyone knows they're not real. Everyone also knows about this thing called internal consistency. A fictional universe that is potentially going to go on forever kind of hinges on it. Otherwise, you might as well just change the names of every character whenever someone new starts writing.

So I guess Fraction is saying we shouldn't care or fans are way too serious? Maybe we should all be less passionate about the characters? Maybe we should stop buying his books and lining his frigging pockets?

What a jerk.

 

[The Question]

How hard is is to write Thor in character? He's fairly distinct.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Verily.

(A word I don't think Fraction has ever had Thor use, coincidentally.)

 

[runawayboulder]

Or "thou"....

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, that one's fair. Neither JMS nor Simonson nor even Lee had Thor say "thou" all that often. That was more Stern, Wein, Jurgens, and the Avengers writers.

 

[runawayboulder]

I remember the preview for Invincible Iron Man #500 and Thor was in a scene. I said at the time Thor's dialogue was rough and this was gonna be an issue.

 

[The Question]

Well, that one's fair. Neither JMS nor Simonson nor even Lee had Thor say "thou" all that often. That was more Stern, Wein, Jurgens, and the Avengers writers.

Honestly, I don't think the old timey shakespear talk is all that necessary for Thor. It's just as anachronistic for a Viking from the dark ages to talk like that as it is for him to speak modern english. But there is a certain meter and tone to his speech that should remain pretty consistent.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Thor's most famous line has "thee" in it. Don't look down on the Shakespeare Speak.

 

[The Question]

Thor's most famous line has "thee" in it. Don't look down on the Shakespeare Speak.

True, but that's because of the awesome context. You would have worked just fine there. All I'm saying.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd be more in favor of it if more writers knew how to use it correctly.

 

[Franklin Richards]

True, but that's because of the awesome context. You would have worked just fine there. All I'm saying.

No.


"We would have words with you." sounds like something Cindy Brady might say to Alice.


"We would have words with thee." sounds Biblical.

 

[The Question]

No.


"We would have words with you." sounds like something Cindy Brady might say to Alice.


"We would have words with thee." sounds Biblical.

I don't see the difference.

Or how "We would have words with you" sounds anything like XCiny Brady.

 

[WildcatNC]

If you write Doom like Joker, you've failed. Don't make excuses.

Did this actually happen????

 

[The Morningstar]

Well Bendis had Doom call Ms Marvel a fat cow once.

Whereas if Doom was written correctly he'd call her something like "gluttonous wench".

I've been saying it for a while, but Marvels "architects", Bendis and Fraction (Brubaker isn't bad) are their worst mainstream writers, ironically. Bendis and Fraction simply don't have a thing on the likes of Parker, Waid, Gillen, Remender and plenty of others.

When Bendis and Fraction first started out they got it. They were hungry, they were great. But it seems now that they have risen to the top, they've rested on their laurels. They don't give a **** anymore, to be frank.

 

[El Bastardo]

I don't see the difference.

Or how "We would have words with you" sounds anything like XCiny Brady.

There isn't one, and it doesn't.

 

[Franklin Richards]

If you don't see it then I can't show it to you. Sounds like you're just being contrary because it doesn't fit with your agenda.


There is an obvious difference.

 

[The Morningstar]

"Ultron, we would have words with thee!"

Is an iconic comic book line.

"Ultron, we would have words with you!"

Just isn't the same. That line would never become iconic.

Neither would "you're a pain in the ass" for that matter. God, Fraction sucks so much at writing Thor.

 

[kguillou]

Well Bendis had Doom call Ms Marvel a fat cow once.

Whereas if Doom was written correctly he'd call her something like "gluttonous wench".

I've been saying it for a while, but Marvels "architects", Bendis and Fraction (Brubaker isn't bad) are their worst mainstream writers, ironically. Bendis and Fraction simply don't have a thing on the likes of Parker, Waid, Gillen, Remender and plenty of others.

When Bendis and Fraction first started out they got it. They were hungry, they were great. But it seems now that they have risen to the top, they've rested on their laurels. They don't give a **** anymore, to be frank.

Brubaker isn't innocent either. Speaking of out of character, he almost single handedly destroyed Prof. X's character in X-men: Deadly Genesis. To this day i am baffled as to how he wrote such an atrocious story.

 

[The Question]

If you don't see it then I can't show it to you. Sounds like you're just being contrary because it doesn't fit with your agenda.

That's very rude.

There is an obvious difference.

If you can't show it to me then maybe it's not as obvious as you think.

"Ultron, we would have words with thee!"

Is an iconic comic book line.

"Ultron, we would have words with you!"

Just isn't the same. That line would never become iconic.

Why not? I just don't see why both versions don't have the same iconic potential.

Besides, the line itself isn't anything special. I mean, the "thee" makes it distinctively Thor-ish, but it's the context of a beaten and bloody Thor fighting his way through hundreds of Ultron drones to burst through a wall with a team of Avengers to deliver the line in a tone that's calm and intelligent and full of rage and hate that gives it it's punch.

 

[The Morningstar]

True, it is about the context. But it's like you say, the "thee" makes it distinct. It's pure Thor. If it was "you" it wouldn't be distinct or unique and thusly, iconic. It could have been anyone saying it.