Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 6

[GuestStar2004]

but studios highly police these blockbuster movies.

Every blockbuster movie is a tug-of-war between director and studio! We have thousands of examples for these conflicts every year. I wouldn't be so naive to believe everything directors are saying in interviews. I think it is more interesting to analyse what they actually deliver...

I see very little in apocalypse that looks like it could have been forced on Singer by FOX tbh, fox didn't push to change the apocalypse design, they didn't push for feature more of the colourful outfits to market, they didn't push for more wolverine, infact singer and kinberg thought about giving him a bigger role but they themselves changed their minds.

i think they give singer more creative control then you may think.

 

[superweirdo87]

I just think passing the torch to First Class or the prequel/younger version was just never a good idea even if the movies are actually that good or better than the OT. And it shows at the box-office, the moment Fox left out the OT again after DOFP - notable box-office drop occured in a X-Men team film, it didn't even outgross X1 in North America.

But this prequel routine is just... this is not gonna work in the long run.

I strongly disagree. First, this can work out in the long-term for the reasons that Scott Mendelson discussed. They can trim the budget, and work with these grosses.

Again: "
The “pessimistic” scenario is that the X-Men franchise is only a top-tier blockbuster when Hugh Jackman’s Wolverine is somewhat centered along with at least supporting roles for Ian McKellen, Patrick Stewart, and (arguably) Halle Berry. It may well be that general audiences took X-Men: Days of Future Past as a glorified X-Men 4. That makes some sense when you compare the “adjusted” grosses of X-Men, X2, and X-Men: The Last Stand with the three others (X-Men Origins: Wolverine, X-Men: First Class, and The Wolverine) that preceded Days of Future Past. Maybe a “new” X-Men franchise sans the original stars will never be a “top-tier” franchise.
And that’s okay. There is no law saying that every big franchise, even a once-dominant brand, has to remain king of the mountain for all time. A budget-conscious X-Men franchise, perhaps the X-Men: The New Mutants thing that Josh Boone is allegedly working on, could be the way of the future. A younger-skewing X-Men series, one that blended comic book superheroes with “young adult fantasy franchise” tropes, would be a nice way to keep the franchise rooted in character and away from the whole “Magneto has a sad and lifts stuff” thing that has very nearly killed this franchise."

The movie did not drop off dramatically from First Class. It's possible that it would face diminishing returns. But, there might be a stable audience. The X-Men movies fan page is around 14.4M members. The movie sold around 18M tickets. So, if those people show, and better reviews and word of mouth can win over some casual moviegoers who were deterred, then the movie could do a bit better.

The business side might be able to work with smaller budgets.

 

[X-Maniac]

more fun equals in my eyes to pander to white mainstream America so it can forget the socio-political aspect of the franchise and just have a good time.

Maybe we need to stop to pretend that the X-Men is a superhero franchise like any other. It is not! There are fundamental differences between The Avengers/JLA and the X-Men! It is important to keep these aspects alive. We need again a director with a minority background to understand the source material properly.

As long as the socio-political aspect is part of the franchise, it should not be fun and light.

Captain America: Civil War managed to have a socio-political aspect (the accountability of superheroes, the idea that they are vigilantes with no legislation) and yet was still - for the most part - unashamedly comicbooky (like the battle royale at the airport).

It didn't feel 'fun' but neither did it feel overly flat and funereal, or serious and solemn. The characters also felt like they existed in the real world, due to location filming in streets, public spaces (which we don't see as often in X-Men).

X-Men Apocalypse's attempts at fun were a little shaky. An amusing rescue sequence just as Havok got blown to bits... tragedy and comedy at the same time!!!

You can tackle serious and weighty themes without it being overly 'dark' in tone.

 

[superweirdo87]

Guest Star, XMA had many problems, but I do not think action was one of them. The movie had more action than any X-Men movie to date.

 

[JEM]

Present day X-Men movies could happen. Fox could reboot X-Men in the Deadpool timeline. They were unhappy with the Apocalypse performance. From a call with investors on their earnings report this quarter.

'But I'd be remiss if I didn't also recognize that while you need to measure the film business over a multi-year cycle, the recent three sequels we released clearly fell short of the expectations we had going into them. It is our goal to be far more consistent with this output."

With a universe, you have a lot of possibility before reboot. If they are nervious about New Mutant BO, i can see them put NM in present with Colossus (deadpool) and some OC (like Ellen Page) insupporting roles. Investors could be very happy with that option.

It doesn't mean you will never see the new cast again. If Fox still wants to use Sheridan, Shipp, Turner, they have a lot of option. Seriously, Deadpool 2 will introduce Cabe, a TIME TRAVELER. With little imagination, you can make X-Men movie with Cable and the young cast or make All New X-Men adaptation.

New Mutant or X-Men past could be successful but if investors want to be safe, Kinberg, Donner, Fox have so many option before reboot. They need to be creative.

 

[superweirdo87]

Yeah, I think they should see how Deadpool's sequel plays, and maybe do an arc focused on Cable with the young cast.

 

[magneto23]

Guest Star, XMA had many problems, but I do not think action was one of them. The movie had more action than any X-Men movie to date.

The action, on a whole, was mediocre. At best. The fights with the horsemen were underwhelming. Apocalypse never actually fought anyone besides Charles on the astral plane. We should have seen everyone throw down with Apocalypse and we should have seen him fighting back. Not just standing there taking their punishment.

 

[magneto23]

So, if those people show, and better reviews and word of mouth can win over some casual moviegoers who were deterred, then the movie could do a bit better.

The business side might be able to work with smaller budgets.

Think they should also strongly consider changing up their release date. Try late July or early August. Or even April. That late May slot is way too busy and crowded.

 

[superweirdo87]

The action, on a whole, was mediocre. At best. The fights with the horsemen were underwhelming. Apocalypse never actually fought anyone besides Charles on the astral plane. We should have seen everyone throw down with Apocalypse and we should have seen him fighting back. Not just standing there taking their punishment.

I wasn't quite clear. The movie's action had tons of problems. But, I do not think the problem was a lack of action.

 

[iacobusleo]

I remember that Sara Ahmed writes a lot about the expectation of happiness in minority discourses. She describes how negative feelings are often read as backwards, stubborn and conservative while good feelings are regarded as somehow forward and progressive. Bad feelings are seen as a kind of stubbornness that ‘stops’ the subject from embracing the future. Good feelings on the other hand are associated here with moving up and getting out:

Oh that is interesting!

As long as the socio-political aspect is part of the franchise, it should not be fun and light.

Oh I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I think First Class did a great job at balancing fun and light and sociopolitical themes, and there are TONS of shows and movies out there that do this balancing act as well. Even Deadpool, while being fun, had intense, unapologetically horrifying scenes in the middle with his transformation.

I don't think the way Marvel does it for the MCU is a great fit for the X-Men, but I'm sure there is someone out there who can do the balancing act.

Captain America: Civil War managed to have a socio-political aspect (the accountability of superheroes, the idea that they are vigilantes with no legislation) and yet was still - for the most part - unashamedly comicbooky (like the battle royale at the airport).

I'd argue that the movie did a hard left turn into the Cap, Bucky and Tony triangle in the second half though and pushed the policial themes to the side. Civil War is a case where the 'fun' tone actually detracted from the movie, personally. I was genuinely invested in the Sokovia Accords and its consequences, but then I end up getting Giant Man. I think the movie gets a pass because when it commits to something it wants to do (Cap, Bucky and Tony, the political debate in the first half) it does it well, but the movie I think neatly sidesteps away from fully exploring the consequences of the 'civil war'.

An example of an MCU movie which worked, in that it was serious and weighty without feeling overly funereal, was Winter Soldier.

X-Men Apocalypse's attempts at fun were a little shaky. An amusing rescue sequence just as Havok got blown to bits... tragedy and comedy at the same time!!!

You can tackle serious and weighty themes without it being overly 'dark' in tone.

Hear hear.

 

[psylockolussus]

Having seen Suicide Squad there is some structure. Man of Steel, BvS and Suicide Squad are linked, to some extent and all point towards Justice League.

Which could be said to any film series.

 

[henzINNIT]

so why did "X:A" did not feel like a Singer X-Men movie AT ALL?

This bothers me as well. There's no word of Fox applying too much pressure on Singer on this one, though we all know they like to do this. I can only assume the compromises in this film were somewhat self-inflicted. I think Singer felt he needed to make Apocalypse more grand, destructive, goofy and colourful to make the franchise reflect its more successful competition.

Apocalypse was just wrong-headed from its very conception. It wants to be a big franchise pay-off and a fresh start at the same time, and fails at both in my opinion.

 

[DavidHaller]

This bothers me as well. There's no word of Fox applying too much pressure on Singer on this one, though we all know they like to do this. I can only assume the compromises in this film were somewhat self-inflicted. I think Singer felt he needed to make Apocalypse more grand, destructive, goofy and colourful to make the franchise reflect its more successful competition.

Apocalypse was just wrong-headed from its very conception. It wants to be a big franchise pay-off and a fresh start at the same time, and fails at both in my opinion.

so true! And while I'm reading your comment I just see "X-Men: X-Tinction Agenda" in my shelf. Gosh, this x-men story would have been so perfect for Singer's style and interest and also for the main character of the franchise: Magneto. The X-Men together with Magneto helping to spark a mutant revolution in Genosha. This would have been the perfect third installment after "Days of Future Past". It would have led the character Magneto somewhere new and exciting, especially after his last speech in DoFP.

Apocalypse is really the worst X-villain in history. He only works in "Age of Apocalypse". How could Singer not see that the comicbook version of Apocalypse needs so much work done before he is NOT considered generic, boring and one-note? "buhuuu, I want to destroy the world!"End of story. Singer basically re-did the villains of "The Mummy" (he even gave Apocalype some sand powers), "Blade III", "Stargate", "Queen of the Damned" etc. with this movie. This whole evil "ancient-Egypt" villain returns-theme is soooo done and dated. He could at least use Apocalypse's Mayan backstory and create a fictive revenge story of a reversed conquista or whatever...

Damn, was "X:A"'s plot bad and uninspired...

p.s. r.i.p. Aaliyah.

 

[X-Maniac]

This bothers me as well. There's no word of Fox applying too much pressure on Singer on this one, though we all know they like to do this. I can only assume the compromises in this film were somewhat self-inflicted. I think Singer felt he needed to make Apocalypse more grand, destructive, goofy and colourful to make the franchise reflect its more successful competition.

Apocalypse was just wrong-headed from its very conception. It wants to be a big franchise pay-off and a fresh start at the same time, and fails at both in my opinion.

We do have to remember that the STORY for X-Men Apocalypse is credited to Singer, Harris, Dougherty and Kinberg.

Kinberg wrote the screenplay but he wasn't the only one who came up with story.

Also, Singer could have changed anything he wanted during the production and post-production of the movie.

It's hard to tell how much is down to Ottman's editing but it is difficult to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, as the saying goes.

 

[X-Maniac]

so true! And while I'm reading your comment I just see "X-Men: X-Tinction Agenda" in my shelf. Gosh, this x-men story would have been so perfect for Singer's style and interest and also for the main character of the franchise: Magneto. The X-Men together with Magneto helping to spark a mutant revolution in Genosha. This would have been the perfect third installment after "Days of Future Past". It would have led the character Magneto somewhere new and exciting, especially after his last speech in DoFP.

Apocalypse is really the worst X-villain in history. He only works in "Age of Apocalypse". How could Singer not see that the comicbook version of Apocalypse needs so much work done before he is NOT considered generic, boring and one-note? "buhuuu, I want to destroy the world!"End of story. Singer basically re-did the villains of "The Mummy" (he even gave Apocalype some sand powers), "Blade III", "Stargate", "Queen of the Damned" etc. with this movie. This whole evil "ancient-Egypt" villain returns-theme is soooo done and dated. He could at least use Apocalypse's Mayan backstory and create a fictive revenge story of a reversed conquista or whatever...

Damn, was "X:A"'s plot bad and uninspired...

Well, we can but hope that X-Tinction Agenda is considered for a future movie.

It would indeed have made a good story.

And, yes, Apocalypse is a problematic villain, though many fans wanted to see him on screen.

I didn't mind his multiple powers - teleportation was definitely preferable to seeing him zooming around in some silly spaceship - but they were at risk of being convenient to the moment.

 

[DavidHaller]

It's hard to tell how much is down to Ottman's editing but it is difficult to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, as the saying goes.

I'm really wondering if there were some severe time management issues.

The first part of the movie is beautifully edited in a very Ottman way and then suddenly everything becomes very sloppy after the Quicksilver's scene (minus the Phoenix moment in the end).

I have no idea how the interaction between director, editing and effects team works during production but is there a possibility that the effects haven't been done quick enough so that the editors couldn't finish their work in time?

 

[DavidHaller]

Well, we can but hope that X-Tinction Agenda is considered for a future movie.

not quite sure this would work now after "X:A". Maybe we really should give Xavier and Magneto some rest and concentrate on other X-Men to make the franchise seem a little fresher again...I understand that nobody wants to see Xavier and Magneto play chess again...for me would Magneto be a central character to make the Genosha storyline work. But now I wish we would move on from that character.

 

[fallenAngel]

I'm really wondering if there were some severe time management issues.

The first part of the movie is beautifully edited in a very Ottman way and then suddenly everything becomes very sloppy after the Quicksilver's scene (minus the Phoenix moment in the end).

I have no idea how the interaction between director, editing and effects team works during production but is there a possibility that the effects haven't been done quick enough so that the editors couldn't finish their work in time?

This was the quickest turn around (in terms of years) that an X-Men sequel was released. Everything else had a three year gap.

That being said, I think every movie has suffered a shorter than necessary production timeline besides maybe X2.

This biggest complaint I have on most of these movies is they just seem rushed. I think it's somewhat unavoidable because of how large the cast is, but they really should spend more time in preproduction and post.

I think they were trying to strike while the iron was hot from Dofp, but given how many sequels have been met with a 'meh' response this year, it's possible it was always going to fall flat. Star Trek is something both fans and critics are happy with for example and is still not really doing blockbuster numbers. People just aren't that interested this year in something that isn't new.

 

[fallenAngel]

Have they stopped tracking numbers on this movie? Box Office Mojo stopped updating the gross on July 21st. I realize it's probably only made a few more thousand dollars since then, but it's still strange

 

[GuestStar2004]

Singer had a goal for this movie and i can see why he went with what he did, he wanted to have a big event happen similar to FC where these kids had to be put into a dangerous world threatening situation where they are out of their league but they get through it and it ends with them becoming the X-Men.

But he also wanted all the characters to go through changes from their origin progressing on to the end so doing the genosha story just for political elements was likely not the story singer wanted to tell.

If anything the genosha storyline probably works better after apocalypse where magneto seems like he may have changed his ways and the X-Men actually exist now

 

[GuestStar2004]

Have they stopped tracking numbers on this movie? Box Office Mojo stopped updating the gross on July 21st. I realize it's probably only made a few more thousand dollars since then, but it's still strange

Think its mostly left theaters now, it will update with japan in a weeks time

 

[superweirdo87]

Yeah. Some discount theaters are still playing it. But Fox doesn't have 2nd run plans, and it stopped tracking it.

 

[fallenAngel]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottme...emma-of-tentpole-oversaturation/#62cf00c45517

I think this article does a good job of explaining a problem that is somewhat outside of this particular franchises control. We all want as good a movie as we can get, but the truth is a lot of people DID like Apocalypse. And given that a movie like Suicide Squad can open huge and Tarzan can hang on better than expected (both got pretty bad reviews) says that it's not just about quality.

X-men needs a hook/gimmick to sell tickets and that's a tricky scenario. A reboot for example would not really be a long term solution

 

[fallenAngel]

Yeah. Some discount theaters are still playing it. But Fox doesn't have 2nd run plans, and it stopped tracking it.

I guess they were probably pretty disappointed then

They're pushing the blu-ray release already though

 

[GuestStar2004]

They had that Experience X-Men: Tomb of Apocalypse thing at comic con a few weeks ago to promote the DVD.