Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

[Spider-Sonic]

So sad to see all this hate for the X-Men films. First Class and DOFP were not only excellent films, but they were also recieved very well. Things seemed to getting back on track, and then Apocalypse took a turn for the worst. What the hell happened?

I'm still optimistic about Dark Phoenix, but I also didn't think Apocalypse was as terrible as everyone else makes it to be.

 

[DACrowe]

Honestly, other than The Last Stand callbacks, the only bad thing I'd say about that leaked plot in terms of story alone, is why the aliens come. That's almost as ****ing terrible as the sun waking Apocalypse up because for 5000 years nobody removed that rug. The rest, though... under good execution it could certainly be done well... but this is Kinberg.

Even that could be done right. It is in essence the Dark Phoenix Saga: Jean becomes so powerful that she becomes viewed as a threat to other races. It's just that if it happens [blackout]in the first five minutes, as it claims, and all she does is blast a spaceship to their world, and then it isn't just about Jean but a generic alien invasion of earth? Yeah all of that sounds... quite bad.[/blackout]

Conversely, the looking for her father and the drama of that could be good. If they play it more straight than most superhero movies, it would play to this franchise's strengths. But if it ends with [blackout]generic alien invasion, as opposed to X-Men having to choose sides between aliens and Jean... ugh. Also I really hope Magneto isn't "the bad guy" again, when it would be so much more interesting if he sided with Jean.[/blackout]

 

[DACrowe]

So sad to see all this hate for the X-Men films. First Class and DOFP were not only excellent films, but they were also recieved very well. Things seemed to getting back on track, and then Apocalypse took a turn for the worst. What the hell happened?

I'm still optimistic about Dark Phoenix, but I also didn't think Apocalypse was as terrible as everyone else makes it to be.

I also don't think Apocalypse is terrible... but it is very weak and left a bad taste in everyone's mouths. I agree First Class and DOFP are among the best superhero movies ever made. And I suspect five years from now, folks might be able to reevaluate this whole franchise (including Logan, The Wolverine, the Deadpools) and see it did a lot of good.

With that said, if the last mainline X-films are Apocalypse and the Dark Phoenix those leaks claim... yeah. It ain't going to help the franchise's legacy.

 

[kevork89]

I’m just ready for Marvel to take over already.

 

[Spider-Fan]

To be fair to FOX, since 2011, their track record is pretty good. First Class, Days of Future Past, and Logan are amazing films. Deadpool and Deadpool 2 are very well regarded and fun. The Wolverine is a good effort at a Wolverine solo (even if it isn't perfect). The only movie they released to this point that was subpar was X-Men: Apocalypse in that time frame. I would argue even that is better to me than most of their pre-FC output, but even counting that as subpar, we have a score of 6 great/good and 1 bad. That is not bad. Even if Dark Phoenix's leaks are true (and it sounds awful by the sounds of the leaks), then we still have 6 out of 8 good film vs bad (or 3 out of 4...75%).

I want the MCU X-Men as much as the next guy, but in all fairness to FOX, they have been doing alright.

 

[kevork89]

To be fair to FOX, since 2011, their track record is pretty good. First Class, Days of Future Past, and Logan are amazing films. Deadpool and Deadpool 2 are very well regarded and fun. The Wolverine is a good effort at a Wolverine solo (even if it isn't perfect). The only movie they released to this point that was subpar was X-Men: Apocalypse in that time frame. I would argue even that is better to me than most of their pre-FC output, but even counting that as subpar, we have a score of 6 great/good and 1 bad. That is not bad. Even if Dark Phoenix's leaks are true (and it sounds awful by the sounds of the leaks), then we still have 6 out of 8 good film vs bad (or 3 out of 4...75%).

I want the MCU X-Men as much as the next guy, but in all fairness to FOX, they have been doing alright.

Agreed. But a few people on here don’t see it like this.

 

[psyonic]

Even that could be done right. It is in essence the Dark Phoenix Saga: Jean becomes so powerful that she becomes viewed as a threat to other races. It's just that if it happens [blackout]in the first five minutes, as it claims, and all she does is blast a spaceship to their world, and then it isn't just about Jean but a generic alien invasion of earth? Yeah all of that sounds... quite bad.[/blackout]

Conversely, the looking for her father and the drama of that could be good. If they play it more straight than most superhero movies, it would play to this franchise's strengths. But if it ends with [blackout]generic alien invasion, as opposed to X-Men having to choose sides between aliens and Jean... ugh. Also I really hope Magneto isn't "the bad guy" again, when it would be so much more interesting if he sided with Jean.[/blackout]

Wasn't there an interview or report or something about Tye Sheridan saying how all the X-Men have turned against Jean except for Scott.. and he's the only one still on her side??

 

[Lip]

I want the MCU X-Men as much as the next guy, but in all fairness to FOX, they have been doing alright.

I think basically everybody here acknowledge how great these movies are. And praise the risks they took not only with Logan and Deadpool, but also Legion. And they paved the way for r-rated superhero movies.

The frustration mostly comes with creative decisions that sacrifices many, many beloved characters only to prioritize the same over and over. And like that guest said in the Collider video, the X-Men movies are becoming very similiar to each other. They tell basically the same story, they play with the same beats. We're watching the same movie over and over. It's the same things over and over. It lacks creativity. It lacks faith in the characters and the surce material. It lacks faith in the fantastical elements. We're tired of all that.

And given their grounded interpretation of stuff like Galactus, Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix before... God knows how they'll treat aliens in this movie.

 

[Charzhin0]

Wasn't there an interview or report or something about Tye Sheridan saying how all the X-Men have turned against Jean except for Scott.. and he's the only one still on her side??

Yes there was. If

Spoiler

Mistique really does die, then I can see why they would resent her. Hank loved her, Xavier saw her as a sister, Magneto had a fling with her and saw her as a natural beauty in her blue form, Storm idolized her. So a lotta the Xmen would be pissed that Jean kills Raven (by mistake or not) and only Scott backs her up.

 

[Charzhin0]

And given their grounded interpretation of stuff like Galactus, Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix before... God knows how they'll treat aliens in this movie.

I agree with X3s Phoneix and Galactus mainly because that era of comic films were all grounded anyway, but how is Apocalypse grounded?

 

[Lip]

I agree with X3s Phoneix and Galactus mainly because that era of comic films were all grounded anyway, but how is Apocalypse grounded?

They wanted him to look more human because (only in their minds) he was portrayed as an eloquent leader, so he should have a more human appearance.

And he ended up looking like that.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think basically everybody here acknowledge how great these movies are. And praise the risks they took not only with Logan and Deadpool, but also Legion. And they paved the way for r-rated superhero movies.

The frustration mostly comes with creative decisions that sacrifices many, many beloved characters only to prioritize the same over and over. And like that guest said in the Collider video, the X-Men movies are becoming very similiar to each other. They tell basically the same story, they play with the same beats. We're watching the same movie over and over. It's the same things over and over. It lacks creativity. It lacks faith in the characters and the surce material. It lacks faith in the fantastical elements. We're tired of all that.

And given their grounded interpretation of stuff like Galactus, Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix before... God knows how they'll treat aliens in this movie.

Assuming the leak is correct, I agree the team X-Men films have done that the last 2 films. That said, the studio as a whole has offered fresh movies within the franchise outside of X-Men: Apocalypse and possibly Dark Phoenix.

Let us also remember, that leak can be true...today. But they are reshooting the movie. The final product can be very different from this report. Depends on what the target of the reshoots is.

 

[Lip]

Charles and Eric on-again-off-again-rachel-ross relationship drama has been a central part of the X-Men movies for more than 2 movies. And apparently Jean will be reason for another conflict between them.

 

[Charzhin0]

They wanted him to look more human because (only in their minds) he was portrayed as an eloquent leader, so he should have a more human appearance.

And he ended up looking like that.

I thought Singer was originally planning for him to be CGI until he saw how good Oscar Isaac did in audition?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Charles and Eric on-again-off-again-rachel-ross relationship drama has been a central part of the X-Men movies for more than 2 movies. And apparently Jean will be reason for another conflict between them.

To be fair, Magneto and Charles are 2 halves of a coin. Once they come to the MCU, that likely will be an on again/off again thing, LOL! I mean, the comics have been doing it for nearly 60 years now, LOL!

 

[Lip]

To be fair, Magneto and Charles are 2 halves of a coin. Once they come to the MCU, that likely will be an on again/off again thing, LOL! I mean, the comics have been doing it for nearly 60 years now, LOL!

I'm sure we'll see their relationship in the MCU. It's a very important part of the X-Men. But will it be a central part in every movie? Will the rest of the characters be treated as background furniture? Will they develop only their relationship and forget about the the rest of the characters?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm sure we'll see their relationship in the MCU. It's a very important part of the X-Men. But will it be a central part in every movie? Will the rest of the characters be treated as background furniture? Will they develop only their relationship and forget about the the rest of the characters?

Loki was for almost every movie Thor was in.

 

[Charzhin0]

I guess Magneto/Xavier dynamic wouldnt be too different from Cap/Stark, they've been in constant conflict since Avengers 1.

 

[Lip]

I guess Magneto/Xavier dynamic wouldnt be too different from Cap/Stark, they've been in constant conflict since Avengers 1.

Given how Marvel handled Spiderman, I'm willing to bet Charles and Eric relationship will be treated like Uncle Ben's death. It very integral to Peter and his philosophy, but it has been done before (not nearly as much as Charles/Eric) and the audience already knows the story.

I'm sure Kevin Feige and Marvel are aware that there are many other characters to develop, many other relationships to explore, many other villains to use and many other stories to tell.

 

[Lip]

Loki was for almost every movie Thor was in.

I have no idea how Thor comics works. But I'm sure Thor is not a team like the X-Men and doesn't have plenty of characters to develop. If Loki is the most important villain for a solo character like Thor, is one thing. Now the X-Men is a team with plenty of iconic characters, everyone with their own backstory, drama, rivalry, romance, friendship.

You think the X-Men is only Charles and Eric? So you haven't read the 60 years of comics, have you? Well, spoiler alert, but their relationship is not integral part of the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix Saga. Not even Days of Future Past.

Edit: By the way, Loki didn't appear and was developed for 18 years of movies before the MCU, did he?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I have no idea how Thor comics works. But I'm sure Thor is not a team like the X-Men and doesn't have plenty of characters to develop. If Loki is the most important villain for a solo character like Thor, is one thing. Now the X-Men is a team with plenty of iconic characters, everyone with their own backstory, drama, rivalry, romance, friendship.

You think the X-Men is only Charles and Eric? So you haven't read the 60 years of comics, have you? Well, spoiler alert, but their relationship is not integral part of the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix Saga. Not even Days of Future Past.

Edit: By the way, Loki didn't appear and was developed for 18 years of movies before the MCU, did he?

Dude, I have read plenty of X-Men. Don't give me that condescending "You don't read the comics" crap. You want to have a discussion, then have a discussion. If you want to insult or talk down to me, don't bother replying. You're not worth my time if that is what you're going to offer me.

I have read plenty of X-Men over the years. Yes, they have tons of enemies and such, but Magneto is by far the villain with the most history. He is also one of the most popular villains in all of comics, and to think he won't feature in a greater portion of X-Men movies is just naive. Even when Marvel takes this over. I would say the same of Doctor Doom in the FF movies. The difference is the X-Men roster is so vast, Marvel will likely do solos and form secondary teams to accommodate. I honestly think Marvel could release an X-Men film of some sort every year once they get it. But I fully expect Magneto and Doom to be treated closer to Loki once they appear.

 

[xrs13]

If you look at the comics even now, Magneto is currently featuring in at least 4 x-titles in some form or another. Not Many villains feature across that many comics in one go. So even when Marvel get the rights back, he’s gonna be sticking around. They may retire him for one or two films but he is, like Spidey just said, the other side of the coin to Xavier. More so I would say than Loki has ever been to Thor

 

[Lip]

Dude, I have read plenty of X-Men. Don't give me that condescending "You don't read the comics" crap. You want to have a discussion, then have a discussion. If you want to insult or talk down to me, don't bother replying. You're not worth my time if that is what you're going to offer me.

I have read plenty of X-Men over the years. Yes, they have tons of enemies and such, but Magneto is by far the villain with the most history. He is also one of the most popular villains in all of comics, and to think he won't feature in a greater portion of X-Men movies is just naive. Even when Marvel takes this over. I would say the same of Doctor Doom in the FF movies. The difference is the X-Men roster is so vast, Marvel will likely do solos and form secondary teams to accommodate. I honestly think Marvel could release an X-Men film of some sort every year once they get it. But I fully expect Magneto and Doom to be treated closer to Loki once they appear.

You're right, that was unnecessarily condescending. I apologize if I insulted you.


I'm sure Eric will appear eventually in the MCU, and his relationship with Charles will inevitably be portrayed. But if you look at Spiderman, Green Goblin is a very, very important foe, and there is no sign of him appearing anytime soon. Dr. Ock appeared once 15 years ago, and they still said they want to explore unseen villains. So far no sign of Mary Jane, Gwen or Harry. Uncle Ben's death happened off screen. Almost everything in Homecoming is new. They want to explore things that weren't explored before

Like you said, the X-Men have a huge amount of characters and villains to explore. And Eric and Charles have been done so ad nauseum that even LSD acknowledged it. I honestly don't see them focusing on them any time soon in the MCU, when there are so many unexplored characters and paths to take. I say this given both their treatment of Spiderman and the ad nauseam focus on Eric and his origin.

Does Marvel want to explore what FOX have explored for 18 years? In that huge universe?

 

[Spider-Fan]

You're right, that was unnecessarily condescending. I apologize if I insulted you.


I'm sure Eric will appear eventually in the MCU, and his relationship with Charles will inevitably be portrayed. But if you look at Spiderman, Green Goblin is a very, very important foe, and there is no sign of him appearing anytime soon. Dr. Ock appeared once 15 years ago, and they still said they want to explore unseen villains. So far no sign of Mary Jane, Gwen or Harry. Uncle Ben's death happened off screen. Almost everything in Homecoming is new. They want to explore things that weren't explored before


Like you said, the X-Men have a huge amount of characters and villains to explore. And Eric and Charles have been done so ad nauseum that even LSD acknowledged it. I honestly don't see them focusing on them any time soon in the MCU, when there are so many unexplored characters and paths to take. I say this given both their treatment of Spiderman and the ad nauseam focus on Eric and his origin.

It's true that Spider-Man has an embarrassment of riches on that front as well and I like that they're giving us a Vulture and Mysterio and such.. I would argue though that Magneto is more popular than GG historically. Norman was dead for a long time, and only became the new Luthor of Marvel once he came back in the 90s. But you're right, they are exploring unseen areas of Spidey for the MCU. I do hope they do this with the X-Men as well. I'm not arguing that Magneto must be a huge part from the start. I'm just saying his popularity may propel him. Honestly, I would like Sinister more than anyone.

I think FOX Mags showed he needed refreshed in Apocalypse. I felt he was so poorly used and forced into conflict. It was bad. If he is going to be a large part of DP, they need to do it in a fresh way.

 

[Lip]

It's true that Spider-Man has an embarrassment of riches on that front as well and I like that they're giving us a Vulture and Mysterio and such.. I would argue though that Magneto is more popular than GG historically. Norman was dead for a long time, and only became the new Luthor of Marvel once he came back in the 90s. But you're right, they are exploring unseen areas of Spidey for the MCU. I do hope they do this with the X-Men as well. I'm not arguing that Magneto must be a huge part from the start. I'm just saying his popularity may propel him. Honestly, I would like Sinister more than anyone.

I think it would be great if they found an "alternative way" to explore him, while letting the X-Men alone. I feel the same about Logan. I'm 100% sure Marvel will introduce him as soon as they get their hands in the character. But I'm also tired of watching Logan in the X-Men. I want the X-Men to be developed without Logan taking the spotlight. But the difference is that Logan has his solo adventures, so he can be introduced and developed in solo movies, while the X-Men movies can focus on Storm, Jean, Scott for instance. And I'm sure Logan will eventually appear in an Avengers movie.

So if they find a way to use Eric while leaving the X-Men alone... that's great.

I think FOX Mags showed he needed refreshed in Apocalypse. I felt he was so poorly used and forced into conflict. It was bad. If he is going to be a large part of DP, they need to do it in a fresh way.

I think he shouldn't even be here, honestly. But for some reason they think there can't be X-Men without him. That's sad. I had said before that I think Jean will be an object of conflict between Charles and Eric in DP. And now the spoilers seem to hint that.

And Eric being so forced in some of those movies is one of the reasons I want (and I think Marvel will) take a big break for him and let the X-Men breath fresh air.