Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

[DACrowe]

Deadpool is the biggest success they can point to, the only one with mainstream pop-culture appeal, so they're desperate to associate it with the mainline X-Men.

Whereas the first one had a shot of the mansion, it seemed like a different continuity, a different world. The rebooted Colossus added to that.

But it did so well that they shoved lots more X-references in the sequel.



Yes it made no sense for her to be allowed to survive in DoFP. As long as she is alive, she could be captured and her tissue used to create the dark future of DoFP.

It was among the many reasons X:A is flawed from the beginning. It's built on bad choices.

Look, I don't disagree the Deadpool movies gleefully ignore the continuity of the "mainline" films.

However, to pretend they also aren't connected with them even in the first picture is selective memory...

 

[DACrowe]

There is some additional info about the movie that I don't think has been posted yet.
"the X-Men actor confirmed to us the movie is about “family” and discovering who your true friends are when things get bad."

Evans on Dark Phoenix “I think the title kind of says it all: it’s a little bit darker and it’s a little bit more of a drama,” Peters said. “It’s really about Phoenix and Jean's inner-struggle and how that pans out, and who your real friends are. Who’s helping you through these difficult times? So it’s really about that and it’s about the X-Men family, and I think it’s a serious film.”

Evans on Quicksilver: “Quickie is with the X-Men going on missions and doing good with his powers. So he’s kind of integrated himself into that world and is trying to fit in there as best he can.”

Evans on reshoots: When asked if he’s begun reshoots, Peters said, “No, I'll be going back, I think. I’m not sure when or for how much, but I’m excited to get back in there and do some more stuff, it’ll be fun.”

I like how you actually include a little bit of actual news about the film, with Evan Peters suggesting it is about a riff in the family and emphasizing an ensemble piece (although who knows if that is what we'll get on the screen), but no one wants to talk about anything but comparing it to TLS based on unverified rumors.

Few years too late to be getting into the whole Vs concept

Imagine if this had come out in 2016 instead

I get that vibe too. I wouldn't be opposed to it if it works, even though I think it is a bit silly ignoring all of the Dark Phoenix's better comic elements.

Then again, Logan took the basic idea of Old Man Logan and made a beautiful and very different story out of it.

 

[magneto23]

The poster of the spoilers said that scenes from X3 were repeated in this film and which scenes those were. If you've already read said spoilers and are still not convinced then I'm not sure what else to say. How many similarities are needed for this to be a valid concern?

There just aren't that many to be concerned about. Those scenes start the same way but end in completely different ways.

Going by the official news I'd say that this being a "grounded" and "realistic" approach to the story already makes it too similar to TLS.

With those shape shifting aliens? Right?

Once again including Mystique and Magneto in the story. They are not required to make a Dark Phoenix film.

Their presence doesn't automatically mean similarities. Both characters are doing different things in this. Magneto isn't trying to use the Phoenix here.

Cramming in storylines that don't belong (Genosha).

This is just a complaint. Genosha and it's global/political ramifications are new. Nothing similar to X3 here besides new random mutants under Magneto.

Lack of Hellfire Club and Shi'ar.

More complaints.

TLS was "grounded" and it was written by the same man who wrote this new film. This approach is not working - at least not with him. That's all I'm saying.

You seen the movie already?

 

[EnDz0n3]

This isn't unique to the adaptions of Dark Phoenix through, it's a staple of the entire franchise in many respects. The Last Stand was actually arguably one of the least grounded and most fantastic movies of the franchise, and if she's turning into a fire being.and they're going into space and there are aliens involved..how grounded is it, exactly?

Kinberg literally called this take on Dark Phoenix grounded. You can find many direct quotes of his using that very word.

Either people are ready to admit that Kinberg tends to lie a lot when it comes to promoting his films or I honestly don't know what to say any more.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Whereas the first one had a shot of the mansion, it seemed like a different continuity, a different world. The rebooted Colossus added to that.

Beyond the change to Colossus that is pretty much the only big change there. Although Colossus costume is pretty much a slightly altered version of the X3 costume.

The movie mansion is shown aswell as the Xaviers school sign.

The jet shown was newly rendered but basically the same design.

The sub-basement while abit more silver plated for what was shown has the X-MEN movies style door with that middle twisty thing that you get at the start of alot of the movies

Now for a film that you think they were was trying to be its own thing why did they show any of that at all? its very obvious with what the writers said that by Deadpool 2 they got their foot in the door to get to show more of it.

 

[The Guard]

Kinberg literally called this take on Dark Phoenix grounded. You can find many direct quotes of his using that very word.

Either people are ready to admit that Kinberg tends to lie a lot when it comes to promoting his films or I honestly don't know what to say any more.

No one said he didn't.

Pay attention to the context.

Kinberg is speaking in terms of tone and characters. He is aware that the more bombastic, comic booky APOCALYPSE did not go over well. They're drilling down on story and character this time around VS a bunch of huge setpieces and crazy powers.

He's referring to psychological grounding in telling the story, not a lack of the fantastic in general.

When he says it will be less operatic, that's essentially code for less silly and over the top, which, again, was a complaint about APOCALYPSE. Hence the talk from the cast about it being more of a drama, more intimate, etc.

In interviews, he's using common storytelling and filmmaking terminology as shorthand to explain their approach this time out.

The word "grounded" tends to mean "well balanced and sensible", so I don't see this is a bad thing.

 

[Lip]

No one said he didn't.

Pay attention to the context.

Kinberg is speaking in terms of tone and characters.

No. He was very specific: “[We must] find a way to ground it so it’s not too intergalactic."

They're drilling down on story and character this time around VS a bunch of huge setpieces and crazy powers.

First of all: That's what he said about X-Men Apocalypse before the movie was released.

Second of all: A movie doesn't need to be "grounded" to be emotional, engaging and relatable. A movie can very well have huge setpieces and "crazy powers" and still be great. The Lord of the Rings didn't ground any of the high fantasy to make an emotional movie.

But you know, that's something a good storyteller can do.

 

[Elayis]

It's the typical problem Fox has with these movies. They don't hired talented writers who can pull off a story that is both character driven and action packed, so they think it can't be done and one or the other must be sacrificed. You can have both, plenty of blockbusters have proven that.

I tend to like more "grounded" and "realistic" comic book movies, but the way Fox tends to go about it is all wrong. And the sad thing is they've had directors who have done it successfully. Matthew Vaughn, James Mangold, Bryan Singer (back in the day). They're just never able to capitalize on the momentum of the things they get right. More films like First Class would've been great, but they dropped the ball on that. More movies featuring the original cast could've been awesome, but again they screwed the pooch.

I think DP going to be the final nail in the coffin for Fox's X-Men. Who even knows what's going to happen after the sale. Maybe Disney won't get it after all, and it'll be Viacom who ends up with the rights. Are they even interested in making Marvel movies?

 

[magneto23]

Yeah, when people mention "similarities" they don't mean copying and pasting the exact same script. They mean both movies are playing with basically the same beats.

What two maybe three main story beats? Some costuming details? The grand scheme of the film, at least what we know as of now, still seems overwhelmingly different.

So there is:
-Jean's struggle dealt (or alluded) as mental illness

You'd think this type of beat would go hand in hand with a Dark Phoenix. But whatever.

-The grounded vision of this story

That's been there since X1. It's not something unique to X3. At least, with this version, they're introducing aliens/cosmic elements into the mix.

-Eric being shoved in that storyline again

The fact that he's present here, or "shoved" in, is a pretty shallow comparison. What is the character doing? Sounds like he will be doing very different things compared to X3.

-Eric as the villain again

Unless he's teaming up with the aliens then I doubt he's the villain again. Going against the X-Men or going against the Phoenix doesn't make him a villain.

-Eric and Charles butting heads again

Yeah. This has been to death.

-Jean killing a friend and member of the X-Men

Yeah definitely a repeated beat. Just with different characters.

And some other details like
-Kinberg repeating scenes from X3 but with different outcomes like Jean and Scott kissing. Or Jean almost killing Charles

"different outcomes" being key.

-No superhero costumes

X3 had costumes. DP will have costumes.

-Jean using the same red coat

Dissapointing. But not a huge detail.

 

[EnDz0n3]

First of all: That's what he said about X-Men Apocalypse before the movie was released.

Quoted for truth.

But, you know the next talking point is gonna be that we can't blame Kinberg for any of that.

 

[The Guard]

No. He was very specific: “[We must] find a way to ground it so it’s not too intergalactic."[/URL

]

But that's not the only reference to grounding the film that he has made.

He's also very openly addressed that it will focus on characters VS an epic scale.

Why do you think he's referring to it not being too intergalactic? He's talking about the focus of the film. He doesn't want the scale of the film to pull focus from the meat of the characters and story.

Kinberg said that he wants to make sure the film is as "human" and "emotional" as the best X-Men films have become known for:

First of all: That's what he said about X-Men Apocalypse before the movie was released.

I am not arguing that he will have succeeded in grounding the film. I am arguing what he means by saying that he wants to.

Second of all: A movie doesn't need to be "grounded" to be emotional, engaging and relatable. A movie can very well have huge setpieces and "crazy powers" and still be great. The Lord of the Rings didn't ground any of the high fantasy to make an emotional movie.

The Lord of the Rings absolutely grounded its characters, and its high fantasy in relation to the character work and story work. It was balanced and sensible in almost every one of its portrayals of fantasy. It even grounded Sauron in something relatable.

I'm talking about the focus of the film, not the use of huge setpieces and crazy powers, and I believe that so is Kinberg.

They're not saying that there will be nothing intergalactic or special about the story when they say "grounded".

But FOX is very conscious of the fact that APOCALYPSE was considered too big, silly and unwieldly, in part due to the focus on the scale and disaster and not enough focus on the more intimate parts of the story as in DOFP and FIRST CLASS. The film was criticized for its overuse of special effects and disaster sequences in relation to its character work.

 

[fobi]

I can't help but wonder what the action scenes will look like with Richard Norton as the fight coordinator. As terrible as Suicide Squad was the action sequences were probably the only redeeming qualities. And Fury Road was just great. I'd be happy with action scenes that looked like ether of those films.

 

[Legion]

With those shape shifting aliens? Right?

Kinberg is the one that described the film this way. Apparently, he thinks that a film with shape-shifting aliens can be more real and grounded (than previous X-Men movies).

It’s more intense and it's more real and grounded, and hopefully more relatable.

You seen the movie already?

No, I have not seen the film yet. I do have an opinion though based on the information that's been presented which I've already stated. Others seem to share that opinion as you've already pointed out. It sounds too similar to TLS. That's what we've been talking about. Right?

We didn't need another "grounded" take on the Dark Phoenix saga. If they were going to do it again, they should have done it right.

People have taken issue with this direction since it was announced.

Here's an article from last year. I'm sure you can find others if you search:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/08/30/is-x-men-dark-phoenix-already-being-set-up-to-fail/#22e5e32f4555

 

[GuestStar2004]

I can't help but wonder what the action scenes will look like with Richard Norton as the fight coordinator. As terrible as Suicide Squad was the action sequences were probably the only redeeming qualities. And Fury Road was just great. I'd be happy with action scenes that looked like ether of those films.

Well Ratner is not a bad action director and you do kinda see it in X3 in moments like the house fight.

Vaughn is a pretty decent action director, although he didn't really push that hard on the action for FC compared to his other films.

Origins is probably the most action packed of the films

 

[GuestStar2004]

Kinberg is the one that described the film this way. Apparently, he thinks that a film with shape-shifting aliens can be more real and grounded (than previous X-Men movies).

DOFP was fairly grounded too. it had robots and time-travel but it was about a character battling his own emotional demons to save the day.

I think real and grounded can be taken in many different ways though.

Its like Logan with the story being about an aging and struggling guy feeling his age after we watched the character for many years be invincible and kick ass. oh and Xaviers dies tragically rather then heroicly... that could be described as real and grounded because none of it is kind and cool, but then real life isn't often kind and cool.

There will probably be plenty of fantasy elements in DP but its all about keeping the tonal balance.

People have taken issue with this direction since it was announced.

People were gonna do that anyway no matter the direction tbh.

After all this is the 2nd attempt at the story so people feel they are owed more then what the film was probably ever gonna end up.

 

[Charzhin0]

I think DP going to be the final nail in the coffin for Fox's X-Men. Who even knows what's going to happen after the sale. Maybe Disney won't get it after all, and it'll be Viacom who ends up with the rights. Are they even interested in making Marvel movies?

It is Comcast that is launching a counter bid to Disney which will go to vote for the Fox shareholders on July 9th so well find out then.

Either way, you are right that DP will be the end of the Fox franchise.
Im in the minority and my ideal scenario is that Fox accepts Comcasts offer and we get a full reboot of Xmen under newly acquired Fox. As many people seem to love the MCU, i dont think they will get the tone right with the Xmen.

 

[Legion]

DOFP was fairly grounded too. it had robots and time-travel but it was about a character battling his own emotional demons to save the day.

I think real and grounded can be taken in many different ways though.

It's like Logan with the story being about an aging and struggling guy feeling his age after we watched the character for many years be invincible and kick ass. oh and Xaviers dies tragically rather then heroicly... that could be described as real and grounded because none of it is kind and cool, but then real life isn't often kind and cool.

There will probably be plenty of fantasy elements in DP but its all about keeping the tonal balance.

It's as you said though. DOFP did have Sentinels and time travel. Xavier didn't just have a premonition of things to come like Jean did in Apocalypse. There was actually a time traveler in the story.

They made changes to the Sentinels but they were still giant humanoid mutant-hunting robots. They didn't turn the Sentinels into a virus or use another group of characters like The Reavers and simply call them "Sentinels". We didn't have to discuss here if they were actually the film maker's take on the Prime Sentinels or an obscure take on the characters in another storyline or media. Most of all though they were actually included in the story.

TLS left out the HC, Shi'ar, and all cosmic elements of the DP saga. Then it's a surprise that the Phoenix was only a subplot in the film. Kinberg himself cited this as a regret for TLS and said that the Phoenix would be the main plot in the new film. He's leaving out the same characters and plots again and filling in the gaps using the usual methods from his X-Men film writer handbook.

People were gonna do that anyway no matter the direction tbh.

After all this is the 2nd attempt at the story so people feel they are owed more then what the film was probably ever gonna end up.

It is the second attempt and is following a poorly received entry in the franchise. He should have looked a bit harder at the criticisms of the previous attempt (and Apocalypse).

Anyways this is a popular storyline and I'm sure it will be revisited again. Third time's the charm.

 

[GuestStar2004]

It is the second attempt and is following a poorly received entry in the franchise. He should have looked a bit harder at the criticisms of the previous attempt (and Apocalypse).

Well chances are it wasn't down to not following the comics storyline.

Anyways this is a popular storyline and I'm sure it will be revisited again. Third time's the charm.

There are many popular storylines. not many are gonna go the way you wanna see them on screen though.

Planet hulk is fairly popular... but you got that in thor Ragnarok. although it probably won't get a revisit anytime soon so what elements they decided to give you from that story is pretty much the best you can expect from that live action adaptation

As for a 3rd go around... maybe another 12 years

 

[Superhero 101]

Hmm I wonder with all these new trailers we r getting today if we will have a teaser for dark phoenix soon

 

[X-Maniac]

I was just thinking I would be surprised if we saw anything teased at SDCC as the reshoots won't even have started.

I would love to watch the test screening version and know what it is that people did not like, and what it is that they are going to change.

 

[The Infernal]

I think I could go another 10 years without seeing the Phoenix saga onscreen. Animated series is another question, but where are those? lol

 

[BMM]

I was just thinking I would be surprised if we saw anything teased at SDCC as the reshoots won't even have started.

Unless they’re reshooting the entire movie, I don’t see why they can’t have a 2 minute teaser ready by July.

 

[Fallen]

i dont think they will get the tone right with the Xmen.

What do you think is the "right" tone of the X-Men? FOX's tone?

 

[EnDz0n3]

Planet hulk is fairly popular... but you got that in thor Ragnarok. although it probably won't get a revisit anytime soon so what elements they decided to give you from that story is pretty much the best you can expect from that live action adaptation

As for a 3rd go around... maybe another 12 years

The obvious difference is that Thor Ragnarok was well-received whereas The Last Stand and I suspect Kinberg's Dark Phoenix won't.

 

[X-Maniac]

It is Comcast that is launching a counter bid to Disney which will go to vote for the Fox shareholders on July 9th so well find out then.

Either way, you are right that DP will be the end of the Fox franchise.
Im in the minority and my ideal scenario is that Fox accepts Comcasts offer and we get a full reboot of Xmen under newly acquired Fox. As many people seem to love the MCU, i dont think they will get the tone right with the Xmen.

We've had 18 years of Fox's tone. And it's been a bumpy ride at times.

I think it wouldn't be a bad thing to have a new vision altogether, with completely fresh thinking and a shift of emphasis.

Even without the Disney/Comcast takeover looming, the franchise seems to have run its course.