Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[psyonic]

Yeah, it seems like they shifted her from Lilandra to a female, alien Mastermind.

You're probably tired of me saying this lol but Cassandra Nova seemed like a really good choice to make Chastain, so do you know if she is given a name yet? XD

 

[EnDz0n3]

and i suppose it would have been stupid to end the franchise, then have the deal fall through and be back to square one.

Since when has the ending of the previous movie stopped this franchise from doing anything different on the next?

Wolverine literally lost his adamantium in one movie, as a big part of its plot, only to have his metal claws back in the next movie without explanation. 10 months apart.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Since when has the ending of the previous movie stopped this franchise from doing anything different on the next?

That doesn't change the fact there is easily a continuation window to that ending. whether stuff was changed or not.

Which is the whole point i was getting at,

 

[EnDz0n3]

What does end the franchise even mean? Like a filmmaker wouldn't kill every single X-man? You should go watch Logan. I hear it's good.

 

[Nadia]

Well then why include Chastain and her alien cohorts at all then, icekid?

That's the question I'm asking.

And if you ask me, characters who were involved in the Dark Phoenix Saga would be a selling point for a movie based on that. But I digress.

This film from what we have heard seems to be focusing the 'manipulation of Jean by Hellfire club' part of the Dark Pheonix story: jeans manipulation and fall. The Shiar only come into play in the second half of the story and act as jury for her crimes.

Given they are going to extent of making the Pheonix Force as cosmic being it makes sense to add alien character as the manipulators (since the serie hasn't delay wiht cosmic elements).
Its clear Chastains character has a connection to the Pheonix Force (wants it or worships it, etc); that will permit exposition and tie in with the now cosmic aspect of the Pheonix force.

 

[Nadia]

Since when has the ending of the previous movie stopped this franchise from doing anything different on the next?

Wolverine literally lost his adamantium in one movie, as a big part of its plot, only to have his metal claws back in the next movie without explanation. 10 months apart.

It's not like he was allied with the "Master of Magnetism" for ten years who could have re-coated his claws with adimtuatum from a new source of the metal or rearranged the adimantium on his skeleton...

 

[EnDz0n3]

It's not like he was allied with the "Master of Magnetism" for ten years who could have re-coated his claws with adimtuatum from a new source of the metal or rearranged the adimantium on his skeleton...

Adimtuatum?

Imagine how amazing that scene would've been*. Imagine all the amazing scenes we missed because of all the time jumps...

*well maybe not as amazing if it was still written by Kinberg

 

[carpenter82]

But given the patterns of the movies, Charles may actually end up fighting Magneto at the end, i wouldnt be surprised

X1: Fight
X2: Betray
X3: Fight
FC: Betray
DOFP: Betray
Apocalypse: Fight
Dark Phoenix:

I never interpreted Magneto's actions in DOFP as betrayal. From his point of view he's helping them by doing what needs to be done.

 

[Nadia]

Adimtuatum?

Imagine how amazing that scene would've been*. Imagine all the amazing scenes we missed because of all the time jumps...

*well maybe not as amazing if it was still written by Kinberg

I mean you kind of need a time jump for DoFP...

 

[EnDz0n3]

You only "need a time jump" because the plot points in the script told you that you need some time to have passed. Most, if not all, of those things that you think require a time jump can still be worked into the script without it.

But DOFP is off-topic so best we go back to discussing Dark Phoenix.

What's the benefit of the time jump from the end of Apocalypse to the beginning of Dark Phoenix? That Mystique and Jean are now best friends? That Scott and Jean are getting closer? That the X-men are now superheroes? Don't you think the movie and the characters would benefit greatly if those things were shown, not told, to the audience?

 

[carpenter82]

I had no idea that this is actually Lee Smith's second X-Men film. He also edited First Class.

 

[Frankeh]

This film from what we have heard seems to be focusing the 'manipulation of Jean by Hellfire club' part of the Dark Pheonix story: jeans manipulation and fall. The Shiar only come into play in the second half of the story and act as jury for her crimes.

Given they are going to extent of making the Pheonix Force as cosmic being it makes sense to add alien character as the manipulators (since the serie hasn't delay wiht cosmic elements).
Its clear Chastains character has a connection to the Pheonix Force (wants it or worships it, etc); that will permit exposition and tie in with the now cosmic aspect of the Pheonix force.

Okay but Chastain is not Hellfire Club either, so I'm not sure why you're using the comic against the Shi'ar deserving their presence...

If anything it reinforces my point. Phoenix Force is a cosmic being so the Shi'ar should be involved.

 

[Cktopl33]

I think Kinberg was obviously trying to make the story more cosmic.

But then the two-parter became one film. And, suddenly, Chastain tweeted she was not playing Lilandra - which tends to suggest she was indeed originally cast in that role.

 

[Cktopl33]

Okay but Chastain is not Hellfire Club either, so I'm not sure why you're using the comic against the Shi'ar deserving their presence...

If anything it reinforces my point. Phoenix Force is a cosmic being so the Shi'ar should be involved.

Probably to connect some way to the comic, since the x-men battle aliens at the end of the saga and they also battle aliens toward the end of the movie (which has also been unseen in this franchise). Since there was no 2 part coming to expand upon that side to do it justice, it's probably for the best the Shi'ar remain untouched until later use from another *studio* who's heading into a more cosmic "phase".

 

[icekid]

Well then why include Chastain and her alien cohorts at all then, icekid?

That's the question I'm asking.

And if you ask me, characters who were involved in the Dark Phoenix Saga would be a selling point for a movie based on that. But I digress.

Because Dark Phoenix needed to have universal impact and have universal impact on a much larger existence than it would if it were a rehash of X3...and the studio said hey wouldn’t it be cool if they invaded instead since you can’t do original idea now. You know, they’re footing the bill after all so what they say, goes.

 

[Cktopl33]

And now some other entity “ordered changes” to Kinberg? Nice narrative. Life of a Simon is hard.

I guess this sort of answered that:

Because Dark Phoenix needed to have universal impact and have universal impact on a much larger existence than it would if it were a rehash of X3...and the studio said hey wouldn’t it be cool if they invaded instead since you can’t do original idea now. You know, they’re footing the bill after all so what they say, goes.

 

[Marvel united]

I find it weird when the same people adamant that the X-Men should start off pre-established with 10+ years of development off-screen, then turn around and say that Fox shouldn't have skipped 10 years of the X-Men's development off-screen in Dark Phoenix.

 

[icekid]

They’re not Shar because while they were supposed to be true to Shiar In it’s two part iteration, the condensed version was not true to who they were despite names still being used when their story changed into some Independence Day rehash. Mouse didn’t like that, nor did anyone else, including those responsible for making it, so it’s been left out and made something more ambiguous because if you can’t do it right, don’t do it.

 

[psylockolussus]

Spoiler

Charles and Erik playing chess harks back to the ending of X-Men, not The Last Stand. And if there’s a running thread throughout the franchise that makes for a fitting end, it’s absolutely that.

I only mentioned Erik who was playing chess in X3. Was he playing tetris?

Like seriously you don't have anything that is not negative to say everytime you make a reply to my posts. I swear to God, Its been like this for years and I have to eXplain myself even if I don't want to reply to a negative person. Pressed much?

 

[EnDz0n3]

I find it weird when the same people adamant that the X-Men should start off pre-established with 10+ years of development off-screen, then turn around and say that Fox shouldn't have skipped 10 years of the X-Men's development off-screen in Dark Phoenix.

Or maybe Kinberg's inability to properly write characters is not an issue that plagues the MCU. I doubt you disagree.

Mouse didn’t like that, nor did anyone else, including those responsible for making it, so it’s been left out and made something more ambiguous because if you can’t do it right, don’t do it.

There's a joke to be made there about the existence of this movie.

 

[psylockolussus]

Well it makes a big difference if you're a "producer" and overseer of a franchise. Simon Kinberg gets his way in a lot of things even if his track record as a writer is bad. I don't really care if Kinberg continues to write and direct films after this one, but just stay away from the X-Men or any Marvel property.

Like how is foX gonna get away with hiring the guy that cowrote X3, and let him write and direct the second Dark PhoeniX adaptation only for the second adaptation to end up sucking as well? That's just gonna be embarassing. Thankfully for foX, they won't get much wrath by that time as Disney already made changes to their film division including the merry Mutants.

 

[Marvel united]

Or maybe Kinberg's inability to properly write characters is not an issue that plagues the MCU. I doubt you disagree.

There's a joke to be made there about the existence of this movie.

It's still the height of hypocrisy, is it not? One franchise built on sufficient arcs and natural character development should forgo that for the X-Men while Kinberg and Fox should not.

Kinberg ain't the greatest writer, god knows he's made a lot of mistakes -- but ah I know ah call it like ah see it, shugah.



Goodnight, X-Fans.

 

[Cktopl33]

I believe it was Fox that ordered most of these unwelcome changes to the film. If anything, I think Kinberg feels relieved that the x-men are going to Disney where Kevin Feige is less likely to make rash creative decisions on projects that affect the creative team. Disney also seem to be aware of what's going on behind the scenes (if Feige reviewed what the original plan for the movie was) therefore I wouldn't be surprised if Kinberg was brought onto Disney in a directing capacity of some sort (even for a Marvel movie) regardless of the outcome for Dark Phoenix. *should Kinberg continue to go on the trajectory of directing*

 

[EnDz0n3]

That's like saying you wouldn't be surprised if Marc Webb (of Amazing Spider-man movies fame) was brought onto MCU to direct one of their movies because Feige also reviewed his scripts.

It's still the height of hypocrisy, is it not? One franchise built on sufficient arcs and natural character development should forgo that for the X-Men while Kinberg and Fox should not.

Kinberg ain't the greatest writer, god knows he's made a lot of mistakes -- but ah I know ah call it like ah see it, shugah.



Goodnight, X-Fans.

If only there was a way
to show past events of characters' lives
in order to expound on their arcs
and show them as fully-realized,
if still imperfect, people.

Nahhhhh.

Anyways, it's funny how the new narrative for Dark Phoenix has already shifted to "This isn't fully Kinberg's movie" almost washing their hands off the project.

 

[psylockolussus]

Like I said, there's always an eXcuse and he simply cannot take responsibility for the bad films that he cowrote and even in Dark PhoeniX, the MCU is to blame, there's always someone to blame. Yet other writers and directors manage to do just fine with demanding studios, studio politics, budgetary cuts and time constraints. If Dark PhoeniX sucks, that's not because of the Disney merger, but the writing/directing of Kinberg in the film.