Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[The Infernal]

I don't think the Jean/Cyclops dynamic really got it's due. Partly because they did the love triangle with Wolverine and it felt like the writing had a bias towards edging Scott out for Logan.

 

[Frankeh]

Right, because it’s overrated. And it is a fault of the script when it’s supposed to be an ensemble film about a team, not a single character teaming up with a couple supporting ones and a few extended cameos. Almost everything that happens in the movie is a result of Wolverine’s story. I have no negative bias towards the character as evidenced by my high praise for his latest solo film, so, yeah, there goes that argument.

The audacity of pointing this as a fault in X2 while saying FC and DOFP are better.

The amount of wallpaper mutants in DOFP speaks for itself. It's far from being a team movie. How many lines did Storm, Bishop, Blink and Colossus get again?

And the amount of development given to the FC recruits was so rich I can barely remember it.

 

[psyonic]

*whenever Simon explains the intent of his movies*
"There's always a speech and nobody cares"

 

[EnDz0n3]

If I “clearly said” all of those things, then what was left to “read into”?

It’s the hypothetical playing into your assertion that what you meant was the opposite of what everyone else, myself included, “read into” it “mistakenly.”

 

[carpenter82]

X2’s overrated. I adore it, but it is. And even though it has the best action sequence of the series featuring my favorite character expertly written and perfectly portrayed, no, it’s not a perfect film. It’s a Wolverine-focused movie with completely shafted characters - that’s just one script problem... I won’t even get started on the superficial and technical ones. It’s definitely good, but that’s it. I love it and I’m overtaken by nostalgia when I watch it, but it’s just not quite what most people think (or want to think) it is.

Worse yet, it seems as if people are scared to admit it.

I never got the whole "it's all about Wolverine" mentality personally. X2 feels like an ensemble film even more so than the first film. For me Cyclops was the only major character that was sidelined a bit. Even then the scene between him and Wolverine after Jean's demise is one of my favorite parts of that movie.

 

[carpenter82]

I always saw Daredevil first two seasons as the one great thing the mcu has done, and what the movies should have been. Amazing show.

Anyway, i am very happy that Dark Phoenix is getting positive word of mouth and notoriety, hopefully all the trolls and haters will have to eat their words, i always had faith in this movie.

Season 3 is also great if you haven't checked it out already.

 

[psylockolussus]

Daredevil the show was boring.

Anyway back to Dark PhoeniX! I hope they have a cgi opening sequence similar to the previous team movies. And they probably would unless Kinberg really wants to leave out the X door. I don't mind that they didn't have that on 1st Class as that was a Xavier/erik origin story just sprinkled with the other Mutants but there were no X-Men unlike this upcoming movie.

 

[x-er]

Shouldn't Daredevil and Elektra be in an Avengers film? And the Wasp!!

Nice swerve.

That line in X2 "You marry the good guy" was Jean rejecting Logan. She rejected Logan and reunited with Cyclops at the end of the movie. And before doing so, she noticed Wolverine practically abandoned her and the team because, and Mystique had asked him before "What do you really want?", Logan doesn't really love Jean, and he cares more about learning who he was from Stryker. So the Wolverine-Jean thing was supposed to be over and done with at X2.

The writers were doing some very intricate things with the characters and I don't think the guys behind X3 noticed them. Rogue falling out of the jet needing Nightcrawler to rescue her and Magneto stopping the jet from crashing and saying "When will these people learn how to fly?" was definite foreshadowing that Rogue would be learning to fly in the next sequel. That was an action scene with a purpose/good set up for character development.

 

[carpenter82]

Simon Kinberg Explains Why the Dark Phoenix Trailer Spoils a certain characters Fate

I still don't like that they revealed this ahead of the film. I said it before and I'll say it again, they only revealed it because people constantly whine about that character. Putting her death out there is an attempt to cut down on some of the bad press.

 

[EnDz0n3]

There’s the problem - I was never talking about you or anyone else individually on this forum. I was very much generally speaking, and you (and others) seemed to have taken it personally. My initial post never quoted or referenced anyone.

So how do you, The Original Bamfer, distinguish between those who loved X2 for the right reasons and those who loved it with nostalgia glasses on. Do they get a one-on-one meeting, and hopefully a confirmation, from you? Do they get stickers after?

This is exactly how I expected some people to respond. I love it! And yeah, it’s definitely true of some people that love it - that’s pretty much the case for anything that’s overrated. But there are some people that genuinely enjoy it for legitimate reasons - like me! I think it’s important to always acknowledge both the good and the bad, even about things we hold dear. It’s kind of ridiculous, isn’t it, when people try to pretend like something is without fault just because they’re a fan of it? Such is the case with anything, not just X2.

I'd love to meet these people who supposedly thought X2 was perfect and without fault. As someone who's been frequenting fan sites and forums dedicated to the X-men films since 1999 from Corona Coming Attractions to Dark Horizons, ComicBookResources to SHH, I've never met a one.

 

[Nadia]

I still don't like that they revealed this ahead of the film. I said it before and I'll say it again, they only revealed it because people constantly whine about that character. Putting her death out there is an attempt to cut down on some of the bad press.

I do agree that's a major part of it. I'm one of the few that like Jlaws Mystique, but it obvious that many don't. They wanted to make clear that she isn't the focus of the film/have much screen time.

I also think her death is obvious and we already worked it out (way back at the EW article). Even, if they removed the funeral shots, it's difficult to cut the trailers without it being obvious that she isn't in the later acts of the film.

 

[TheVileOne]

I was more devastated by what happened to Mystique's character in X-Men 3.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Simon Kinberg Explains Why the Dark Phoenix Trailer Spoils a certain characters Fate

“We wanted people to know that this, again, was a movie where, if Dark Phoenix lost control, it wasn’t just the kind of thing where at the end of the movie all the pieces would be put back together the way it often happens in X-MEN and really a lot of comic book movies,” added Kinberg.

“We wanted people to know beyond just the Raven/Mystique of it all that it is a movie where everybody is at risk. Because of this thing that has happened to Jean, and Jean most especially is at risk,” said Kinberg.

Kinberg can tease a character death without spoiling it in a trailer and then running off to a popular publication (Entertainment Weekly) and giving an interview confirming it.

Teasing the death fulfills the purpose of showing that Sophie's Dark Phoenix is dangerous. Telling people this character dies is just plain lazy and unimaginative. Two adjectives that I would use to describe a Kinberg script.

“I think that one of the things that is true of this movie, and we wanted people to know going into the movie, is that it’s a different kind of X-Men movie,” said Kinberg. “It’s not an X-Men movie where people get knocked down and stand up immediately. It’s an X-Men movie where it’s more real, it’s grittier. I’d say it’s more dangerous.”

He kills an X-man to prove that this "different kind of X-men movie?" He did the same thing in X3 too...This guy's such a bad liar.

 

[Mysteryman]

There are quite a few people out there who haven't even seen X3.

 

[EnDz0n3]

There are quite a few people out there who haven't even seen X3.

LMAO that's not a good excuse to repeat story beats from a previous movie. Of the people who have seen it...it wasn't their favourite.

 

[psylockolussus]

I was more devastated by what happened to Mystique's character in X-Men 3.

Magneto was so cold to her! no wonder why she went against him.

Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorned.

 

[x-er]

There are quite a few people out there who haven't even seen X3.

Or the ones before that. But Ellen Page saves X3.

Actually, if the X-Men won't be back for a really long time, I wonder if Disney would be willing to sponsor an original cast reunion, as in X-Men 4, separate from the MCU but still under Disney/Marvel. Would that be legally possible?

 

[TheVileOne]

Magneto was so cold to her! no wonder why she went against him.

Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorned.

More in particular I hate how Mystique was marginalized and that line of dialogue in particular.

 

[Mysteryman]

Or the ones before that. But Ellen Page saves X3.

Actually, if the X-Men won't be back for a really long time, I wonder if Disney would be willing to sponsor an original cast reunion, as in X-Men 4, separate from the MCU but still under Disney/Marvel. Would that be legally possible?

Just curious, how did Ellen Page save X3?

 

[TheVileOne]

Ellen Page has like a total of three lines in the movie.

 

[Charzhin0]

More in particular I hate how Mystique was marginalized and that line of dialogue in particular.

Magneto only cares about his cause rather than emotional attachment to people/mutants which has been forged out of him long ago. Thats why he tries killing Raven in DOFP and uses mutants as sacrificial lambs throughout the franchise so his actions in x3 fit his character.

 

[TheVileOne]

Magneto only cares about his cause rather than emotional attachment to people/mutants which has been forged out of him long ago. Thats why he tries killing Raven in DOFP and uses mutants as sacrificial lambs throughout the franchise so his actions in x3 fit his character.

X-Men 3 is not worth this.

 

[psylockolussus]

Or the ones before that. But Ellen Page saves X3.

Actually, if the X-Men won't be back for a really long time, I wonder if Disney would be willing to sponsor an original cast reunion, as in X-Men 4, separate from the MCU but still under Disney/Marvel. Would that be legally possible?

The ship has sailed. The fifth movie ot cast should have come out in 2016 or 2017, before another X-Men prequel/Logan.

I really hate the direction of this series after dofp. Deadpool movies aren't really that connected to other films. The X-Men are stuck in the past. Logan killed the X-Men. New Mutants and Gambit seem disconnected to the previous films as well. Thats not how you make a cinematic universe!

 

[Joey9775]

Freaking Kinberg. I'll always remember all the smack he and Zak Penn were talking around X3's release. "No the script leak wasn't accurate (It was almost 100 percent), no Cyclop's role is worthy of the character, no phoenix was done right". They then claimed they were SO SURE that the fans would love the movie that they would come back to the forums and answer questions after the movie was released. Sure enough, movie comes out, fans hate it. Penn completely ghosts the forums and Kinberg sticks around for a couple of days, answers a few softball questions, and bails.

 

[psylockolussus]

Kinberg is unreliable.